WordWolf, some great points about critical thinking skills…and always a fascinating thing to think about when it comes to asking what is the light-bulb-moment of seeing through TWI’s Christian veneer…of seeing what they have to offer in a new light…seeing it for what it really is…snake oil.
We all have critical thinking skills to some degree or another depending on so many variables – but why does it take some folks longer than others to see through TWI’s bull$hit? probably has a lot to do with your length of involvement and types of experiences...For me, maybe it was a combination of youthful naiveté and my cognitive faculties slowly being recalibrated to the unique world of The Way International …...
Yes, all of us have our own set of experiences, relationships and length of involvement.....
On GSC, I have documented much of my thinking processes and involvement in twi............Insanity on Steroids
On one hand, it pains me to think about all the red flags and doubts I had, and saw, during those years......many more than I have documented. In some ways, it is gut-wrenching embarrassing to admit that I was taken in by a cult and its flim-flam veneer.
WordWolf, some great points about critical thinking skills…and always a fascinating thing to think about when it comes to asking what is the light-bulb-moment of seeing through TWI’s Christian veneer…of seeing what they have to offer in a new light…seeing it for what it really is…snake oil.
We all have critical thinking skills to some degree or another depending on so many variables – but why does it take some folks longer than others to see through TWI’s bull$hit? probably has a lot to do with your length of involvement and types of experiences...For me, maybe it was a combination of youthful naiveté and my cognitive faculties slowly being recalibrated to the unique world of The Way International …as followers we learn to dismiss any imperfections, dubious behavior, or a shady way of doing things - by making allowances using TWI-metrics: oh, you’re just looking at the flesh, you need to look at the Christ in them…when you are spiritually mature you’ll better understand things like this…the more you work “the word” the more you’ll see the greatness of this…
Maybe the road to that snake oil epiphany is sort of like Keanu Reeves’ character in the sci-fi action film “The Matrix” (this reference has been used at Grease Spot quite a few times – thought I’d use it here for old times’ sake ).He lives a double life – as Thomas Anderson he is a computer programmer – but he’s also a hacker that goes by the name Neo. He believes something is wrong with the world but he can’t quite put his finger on it. The fact that he is a hacker and pursues leads that may provide an answer tells me he’s already started to flex his critical thinking skills. I can relate this to how I first began questioning the status quo of TWI – in the aftermath of the patriarch paper - - I’m embarrassed to say my critical thinking skills were so calibrated for TWI-world that it took something like that maelstrom aftermath to act as an AED to my faculties. It’s a start anyway. You have to begin somewhere.
There’s a point where you stand back and instead of just analyzing a particular incident or a particular doctrine and take a good long look at the whole thing…you take a brave step outside the TWI-mindset…like Neo in “The Matrix” …the turning point…the eye-opener… the epiphany…the snake-oil-reveal for Neo was when he accepted the red pill from Morpheus. When he takes the red pill, the simulated world of the matrix disintegrates and he awakes to find himself in a pod and realizes his own life’s resources have been feeding this elaborate deception.
I think a lifesaver for many folks ensnared in this cult is help from the outside - Waydale, transchat and now Grease Spot are indeed lifesavers – and have helped folks recalibrate their perception of TWI.
T-Bone, great post! I know Grease Spot has opened my eyes to much of what really happened to many of us in TWI. Before coming here, I thought perhaps I was the one with poor thinking skills; I really didn't trust my own judgement regarding my involvement with TWI. Lord, I really didn't know how perverse, and evil TWI really was. The more time I spend here, the more I realize, that TWI was never really interested in God; they wanted to make money in His name. How did I not see this 40 years ago?
Technically speaking, I'd expect more than one sociologist says that, so technically "sociologists" say that. It's the brainchild of Dr Morris Massey, Sociologist, marketing professor, and maker of training videos. His statements just happen to make it easier to sell his training videos. (Useful to the hypnotherapist in the link, also-good for drumming up business.)
When stripped of mysticism, the idea is simple-which is why it's not a cornerstone of PSYCHOLOGY (the study of the individual). (The man's degree was in sociology, which addresses the motivation of GROUPS- for which I have a respect but I accept the limitations of the field as I accept the limitations of Psychology.) As we all live, things happen. When some of those things happen, we have a moment to reflect, a moment to have an "aha", a moment to have a moment of clarity, under any of a number of names long preceding this guy. ANYTHING can trigger this, so long as it gets us thinking (or reacting), and it doesn't have to look significant to others to do so, provided we actually thinking (or reacting.) The moment where people get sick and tired of being sick and tired is one. In the parable of the prodigal son, there was no "instant" thing, but the youth had such a moment while doing his manual labor- that he was better off starting over than continuing what he was doing.
But change doesn't have to be preceded by UPHEAVAL or anything dramatic. For many people, upheavals or dramatic changes CAN result in thinking, but that's not an equation. Most people tend to keep moving forward without a lot of self-reflection unless something changes-THEN they look around and think. Not everyone needs an "event" except in the most technical sense that tortures the meaning of the word ("I was pouring milk on my cornflakes one morning when it hit me...") Not everyone needs it to be "emotional", but things that can affect the emotion are more likely to get the attention of the average schmoe. And "significant", as I said, is HIGHLY subjective. Living through the tumult of a 9/11 may produce no "significant" emotional event for someone and they go on as they did before, while waiting at a traffic light may produce the moment.
It's neither a cornerstone of Psychology (which studies these things) nor Sociology (which does not any more than, say, Linguistics does) that adults NEED some sort of tumult to change "big things in their lives." Some people may just keep plodding along until something big grabs their attention or prevents the usual, but that's no guarantee. Changing beliefs and changing support networks can change based on logic-and they certainly don't need upheavals to change.
Granted, some people DO change after those. However, some people leave a burning building because they're carried out- and some just walk out or run clear. Not everyone will need to be carried out just because that's how SOME leave the building.
On 12/16/2017 at 8:35 AM, chockfull said:
Nice discussion. I also know that trained psychologists recognize what is called a "triggering event". This would be the event that led them to pick up the phone and schedule an appointment. As we go through life, events happen. Most of them would not be of the category that could trigger change. Humans are creatures of habit. So it is usually some kind of dramatic event and impact that drives a person to make a big life change. Without a "triggering event", most people although they have the opportunity to reflect and change after any event they do not tend to do so until impacted by a "triggering event".
On 12/16/2017 at 7:11 PM, So_crates said:
We were predisposed to doing stupid things because some leader had brain flatulance.
"Obey the MOG, even if he's wrong, then God will bless you," remember?
Like any authoritarian culture, they make promises for the future. Then when those promises don't come to pass, they make excuses.
I always loved the believing equals recieving con. After falling on your tail end a dozen times, you go to leadership to find out what's up. Then you have to present everything you did for the last dozen times so they could find that one millisecond where they could claim you weren't believing.
Some great points about self-reflection, triggering events, and the authoritarian leadership in TWI that more or less conditioned us to choose a certain course of action. I think self-reflection in TWI was hampered by a distorted mirror – the mindset I adopted from them – and it was reinforced by the whole culture of the organization…the result is being somewhat incapacitated to be honest with ourselves or have a bead on reality. If I was a failure it was due to the lack of my believing…triggering events set off a hobbled decision-making process of possible choices that were within a very restrictive framework of “how should a way-believer respond to this?” or WWWBD = what would a way-believer do?
On page 26 of “Lies We Tell Ourselves: The Psychology of Self-Deception” Warren addresses this:
“When we aren’t honest with ourselves about who we are and what we want, we allow other people and circumstances to determine our life course. We throw away our power. We deny our ability to choose, and we fail to live the life that would have been most fulfilling for us.”
I think when you’re in TWI for a long time (I was in it for 12 years) you get used to that feeling of disillusionment with the snake oil…does that become the new normal in terms of a way-mindset? I dunno...do we just settle for accepting disappointments in life...let down again?!?! ...well, so much for that ol' reliable law of believing, huh....that's just the way it is...one of these days I'm gonna hit the way-believer's Lotto - something big that I've been believing for will come true.
if you're in it for the long haul - living life for the pipe dreams from snake oil gets a whole lot harder - especially the more that sneaky suspicion grows on you - is it possible the only active ingredient in the snake oil is the placebo effect…i.e. my belief in the snake oil? …Existence becomes a drudgery of traveling along a road I did not choose, to achieve something I never desired.
But change doesn't have to be preceded by UPHEAVAL or anything dramatic. For many people, upheavals or dramatic changes CAN result in thinking, but that's not an equation. Most people tend to keep moving forward without a lot of self-reflection unless something changes-THEN they look around and think. Not everyone needs an "event" except in the most technical sense that tortures the meaning of the word ("I was pouring milk on my cornflakes one morning when it hit me...") Not everyone needs it to be "emotional", but things that can affect the emotion are more likely to get the attention of the average schmoe. And "significant", as I said, is HIGHLY subjective. Living through the tumult of a 9/11 may produce no "significant" emotional event for someone and they go on as they did before, while waiting at a traffic light may produce the moment.
It's neither a cornerstone of Psychology (which studies these things) nor Sociology (which does not any more than, say, Linguistics does) that adults NEED some sort of tumult to change "big things in their lives." Some people may just keep plodding along until something big grabs their attention or prevents the usual, but that's no guarantee. Changing beliefs and changing support networks can change based on logic-and they certainly don't need upheavals to change.
Granted, some people DO change after those. However, some people leave a burning building because they're carried out- and some just walk out or run clear. Not everyone will need to be carried out just because that's how SOME leave the building.
WW, I laud your analytical prowess and am thankful you were able to recognize the substantive problems with twi while attending ROA. I also agree that "significant" as used in significant emotional event is highly subjective. I'll go one further at this point too. Emotions in humans often are subjectively perceived and/or experienced.
While it may not now be a cornerstone of psychology or sociology that adults NEED some sort of tumult to change "big things in their lives," it may soon be a cornerstone of neuroscience that human decision making is inherently driven by emotion. To what degree and how much it varies from individual to individual may not yet have been objectively defined, but research is taking place to do so.
I would suggest viewing the PBS series on The Brain with neuroscientist David Eagleman (which can be viewed for no additional charge on Amazon Prime)... specifically episode 4 (titled "How Do I Decide."
A funny thing about snake oil…though it may be something of questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit there is a whole other treacherous aspect to consider. What if the manufacturer had deliberately put some harmful or insidious ingredients in it? Maybe in the short-term use – no big deal…but what about if you used the snake oil for years?
Kind of ironic, that I was a salesman for all the products that The Way International had to offer – not realizing the deleterious effects it all had on my own life(i.e. my mind, emotions, decision-making skills, social skills, critical thinking skills, etc.) .…a fascinating thing to think about while you watch this video – if soda commercials were honest. (on a side note: being from New York where we call soda "soda" I had to explain to a grocer in Texas that I was looking for coca cola and not baking ingredients when I asked what aisle soda was on ).
A funny thing about snake oil…though it may be something of questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit there is a whole other treacherous aspect to consider. What if the manufacturer had deliberately put some harmful or insidious ingredients in it? Maybe in the short-term use – no big deal…but what about if you used the snake oil for years?
What if? Heck that's what the American economic model is all about! #MAGA, as they say. OOPS...
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skyrider
Yes, all of us have our own set of experiences, relationships and length of involvement.....
On GSC, I have documented much of my thinking processes and involvement in twi............Insanity on Steroids
On one hand, it pains me to think about all the red flags and doubts I had, and saw, during those years......many more than I have documented. In some ways, it is gut-wrenching embarrassing to admit that I was taken in by a cult and its flim-flam veneer.
Ugh........and leave it at that.
.
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Grace Valerie Claire
T-Bone, great post! I know Grease Spot has opened my eyes to much of what really happened to many of us in TWI. Before coming here, I thought perhaps I was the one with poor thinking skills; I really didn't trust my own judgement regarding my involvement with TWI. Lord, I really didn't know how perverse, and evil TWI really was. The more time I spend here, the more I realize, that TWI was never really interested in God; they wanted to make money in His name. How did I not see this 40 years ago?
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T-Bone
Some great points about self-reflection, triggering events, and the authoritarian leadership in TWI that more or less conditioned us to choose a certain course of action. I think self-reflection in TWI was hampered by a distorted mirror – the mindset I adopted from them – and it was reinforced by the whole culture of the organization…the result is being somewhat incapacitated to be honest with ourselves or have a bead on reality. If I was a failure it was due to the lack of my believing…triggering events set off a hobbled decision-making process of possible choices that were within a very restrictive framework of “how should a way-believer respond to this?” or WWWBD = what would a way-believer do?
On page 26 of “Lies We Tell Ourselves: The Psychology of Self-Deception” Warren addresses this:
“When we aren’t honest with ourselves about who we are and what we want, we allow other people and circumstances to determine our life course. We throw away our power. We deny our ability to choose, and we fail to live the life that would have been most fulfilling for us.”
I think when you’re in TWI for a long time (I was in it for 12 years) you get used to that feeling of disillusionment with the snake oil…does that become the new normal in terms of a way-mindset? I dunno...do we just settle for accepting disappointments in life...let down again?!?! ...well, so much for that ol' reliable law of believing, huh....that's just the way it is...one of these days I'm gonna hit the way-believer's Lotto - something big that I've been believing for will come true.
if you're in it for the long haul - living life for the pipe dreams from snake oil gets a whole lot harder - especially the more that sneaky suspicion grows on you - is it possible the only active ingredient in the snake oil is the placebo effect…i.e. my belief in the snake oil? …Existence becomes a drudgery of traveling along a road I did not choose, to achieve something I never desired.
Edited by T-Boneformatting and clarity
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Rocky
WW, I laud your analytical prowess and am thankful you were able to recognize the substantive problems with twi while attending ROA. I also agree that "significant" as used in significant emotional event is highly subjective. I'll go one further at this point too. Emotions in humans often are subjectively perceived and/or experienced.
While it may not now be a cornerstone of psychology or sociology that adults NEED some sort of tumult to change "big things in their lives," it may soon be a cornerstone of neuroscience that human decision making is inherently driven by emotion. To what degree and how much it varies from individual to individual may not yet have been objectively defined, but research is taking place to do so.
I would suggest viewing the PBS series on The Brain with neuroscientist David Eagleman (which can be viewed for no additional charge on Amazon Prime)... specifically episode 4 (titled "How Do I Decide."
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T-Bone
A funny thing about snake oil…though it may be something of questionable or unverifiable quality or benefit there is a whole other treacherous aspect to consider. What if the manufacturer had deliberately put some harmful or insidious ingredients in it? Maybe in the short-term use – no big deal…but what about if you used the snake oil for years?
Kind of ironic, that I was a salesman for all the products that The Way International had to offer – not realizing the deleterious effects it all had on my own life (i.e. my mind, emotions, decision-making skills, social skills, critical thinking skills, etc.) .…a fascinating thing to think about while you watch this video – if soda commercials were honest. (on a side note: being from New York where we call soda "soda"
I had to explain to a grocer in Texas that I was looking for coca cola and not baking ingredients when I asked what aisle soda was on 
).
Merry Christmas to all !
Edited by T-Bonecorrections
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Rocky
What if? Heck that's what the American economic model is all about!
OOPS...
#MAGA, as they say.Link to comment
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T-Bone
Rocky, that’s funny ! ....imagine a TWI “motivational speaker” modeling a slogan along those lines: “make snake oil great again” ...MSOGA
Edited by T-Boneformatting
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T-Bone
there is an art to selling snake oil...it's basically the art of selling nonsense...this post is just for fun...enjoy...
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