Jump to content
GreaseSpot Cafe
chockfull

The Way Tree Teaching Is AntiChrist

Recommended Posts

So in similar logic to the other thread where we are discussing the teaching of the Way International on the "household of God" as separate from the "family of God" and "body of Christ", if you start to examine the Way Tree teaching and logic it actually follows exactly the same pattern.

Way Productions sang "I am a leaf, on a mighty tree" as a way to express the followers mindset.

This mindset is ANTICHRIST.

I think previously DWBH has shared the Way Tree concept came from Alcoholics Anonymous governing structure and statements.  So certainly the Bible was not the originator of the Way tree. If you look in the NT you don't find forestry LOL.  

Jesus doesn't want you to have your only contribution in life to be swishing in the wind and soaking up sunlight, and obeying innately your twig structure so you don't die off.  He certainly doesn't view himself as wood.

The one body is the analogy for Christians living and functioning in modern times.  That analogy is actually from the Bible.  So instead of being a leaf, we are to be members in particular, seeking our functioning according to our longsuits.  Not statically soaking up sunshine and making nutrients to flow up through the twig to the Branch report blue forms to the Limb to the Region to the Trunk Headquarters and diligently carrying out Vision and Direction plans and orders from the Trunk back down to the leaflet taking them out on mandated witnessing outings like the Jehovah's Witnesses do.

You see the Way Tree puts the focus on the Trunk and the structure.  That is what is most important.  Those elite individuals at the top of the food chain in the organizational structure.  Where exactly is Jesus Christ, our Risen and Ascended Lord and Savior in the Way Tree analogy?  Oh, he's not there?  Remarkable.

This teaching is ANTICHRIST because it puts elite individuals and an organization structure in place of Jesus Christ at the head of the body and His body.

But since the Way is so insistent on a forestry image, I thought I'd carry that thinking a little farther similar to how Paul did the one body of Christ concept.   Many of our North American forests are suffering from an infestation of the pine beetle.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_pine_beetle  This little insect burrows in and kills off trees.  They die standing, and over some time cure into some beautiful kindling.  All it takes is one negligent camper, a smoker not putting out a cigarette, and BOOM, instant forest fire.  You can see them in the news all over the western US.  Burns everything to the ground.  But the interesting thing about it is that some of the pine tree varieties actually their seeds require that forest fire to germinate and grow the next generation of trees.  Pretty interesting.

So that to me is kind of the reality of the Way Tree analogy.  

But trying to live according to our NT instructions as a one body of Christ as a leaflet on a mighty tree?  Or as a limb, branch or trunk element existing solely to carry nutrients to the leaflet from the roots which are HQ and the Sunday Teaching Service.

No, that my friends is ANTICHRIST

Edited by chockfull

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Closest thing in scripture is in the Gospel of John where Jesus said I am the Vine, you are the branches(not leaves).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, chockfull said:

So in similar logic to the other thread where we are discussing the teaching of the Way International on the "household of God" as separate from the "family of God" and "body of Christ", if you start to examine the Way Tree teaching and logic it actually follows exactly the same pattern.

Way Productions sang "I am a leaf, on a mighty tree" as a way to express the followers mindset.

This mindset is ANTICHRIST.

.......snip

I know, I know......

The more you examine the wierwille-doctrine........you start to see that the guy was a false teacher and false prophet.  :evildenk:

That's why it stands to reason to see this newest splinter group, the R/R folk and corps coordinators.......promoting wierwille-adulation.

.........

Edited by skyrider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Closest thing in scripture is in the Gospel of John where Jesus said I am the Vine, you are the branches(not leaves).

So maybe we need to 'leave' the Way tree logic and 'branch' out into better ways of understanding scripture?

:dance:

LOL.

Thanks for the reminder Thomas.  Yes plant imagery.  I guess Jesus also referred to followers with a parable of planting seed in various types of ground and looking at the harvest and comparing it to people.   Of course in the Way with ego unchecked that of course meant people and the various positions they did or did not attain.

But the vine imagery flows with the one body imagery does not cut across it.  As the vine representation of an individual there is growth, fruit, etc.  The individual is a self-contained plant in the image, as opposed to the brainless portion of a photosynthesis process part of a plant in the other image.

So the healthy vine image in the Bible is that each person, like a plant is to grow and produce fruit individually.  Jesus is highly integrated into this imagery as He is the vine.

In the Way, each person is the leaf on a mighty tree.  The tree is represented with the Trunk as at times the ministry HQ in Ohio, or each continent had a Trunk at one time.  The roots are represented by the teachings of the Bible coming out from the Way International Headquarters.  The state headquarters are imagined as "Limbs" of a tree.  All of this imagery extends out to how they live and have meetings as well.  A "Limb Day", or a "Branch Meeting" is a particular kind of gathering of a certain size group of Way people, all which can be represented by the group's "leadership".   The writeup and teaching of the functioning of that group is expressed in the Vision and Direction document by how each layer of the Way Tree is to impart the "heart of the Board of Directors" to the followers on the field.

Jesus also calls himself "the way".  Which has less than zero to do with the 21st century followers who adopted that name and incorporated it, turning it into a cult in Ohio.  The only place Jesus is in this scenario is watching from the right hand of the Father taking notes for the bema when he certainly will have something to say about this type of abomination of his teachings.

Edited by chockfull

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, skyrider said:

I know, I know......

The more you examine the wierwille-doctrine........you start to see that the guy was a false teacher and false prophet.  :evildenk:

That's why it stands to reason to see this newest splinter group, the R/R folk and corps coordinators.......promoting wierwille-adulation.

.........

I just get so tired of seeing so many putting old wine into new wineskins.

They should do something unique for a change just to break up the monotony of their behavior as the definition of insanity.

Peace

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Closest thing in scripture is in the Gospel of John where Jesus said I am the Vine, you are the branches(not leaves).

Yeah and I think the Way Tree with wierwille’s words given priority and importance over the words of Christ - it’s a counterfeit! TWI followers might as well be claiming “I am of wierwille !” - reminds me of I Corinthians 3   But as I Cor. 3 states - there is no other stable platform upon which to build a Christian life other than what’s ALREADY been provided in Jesus Christ...

...it’s no wonder that the Way Tree could ever be anything other than the bad tree of Matthew 7

Edited by T-Bone
Clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a little something, for the Way Tree:

 

stock-photo-cutting-tree-with-a-chainsaw-748406398.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or, if you like Outandabout's analogy, here's another little something.  Please do pay attention to the "state" (and barely "standing") of the item referrred to.

 

pyramid.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Thomas Loy Bumgarner said:

Closest thing in scripture is in the Gospel of John where Jesus said I am the Vine, you are the branches(not leaves).

Good point, Thomas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, chockfull said:

Way Productions sang "I am a leaf, on a mighty tree" as a way to express the followers mindset.

You do have to admit, though, it has a more melodic sound than "I am a chump in a mighty scam".

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, waysider said:

You do have to admit, though, it has a more melodic sound than "I am a chump in a mighty scam".

Or in a pyramid scheme... why do you think Amway was so attractive to people in TWItville?

"In recent decades, pyramid schemes have become an insidious, pervasive and corrupting influence in the marketplace and community, causing financial and social harm on a global scale."

Since 1980 a new form of sales and marketing, called multi-level marketing or network marketing, has spread worldwide and spawned an explosion of pyramid sales schemes involving tens of millions of consumers. The line between legal forms of network marketing and fraudulent 

pyramid programs is a point of controversy, confusion and inquiry in many countries. Pyramid Scheme Alert will provide much needed information to consumers and other interested parties to reduce the number of illegal and de facto pyramid schemes and victims-and to minimize the severity of effects on individuals and communities.

Edited by Rocky
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading Rocky’s post on pyramid schemes - made me think of another angle on the word “Antichrist “ in the title of this thread - in the Greek “anti” could mean not only “against” and “opposite of” but also “in place of”...as in - the Way Tree in place of Christ or perhaps even the body of Christ...some passages come to mind:

wierwille’s teaching of the word taking the place of the absent Christ reminds me of another Jesus / another gospel in II Corinthians 11 that warns of being contaminated from the simplicity or exclusiveness that is in Christ.

Such is the way of any cult leader - like wierwille who used the Bible as a means to his dark agenda...to take folks captive through “philosophy and empty deception “ as it’s put in Colossians 2 where deceived Christians are also told to let no one keep on defrauding them through financial and social harm...(or for those who prefer something that sounds biblical - let no one cheat you out of any temporal or eternal blessings).

...wierwille’s insidious legacy is as virulent as ever in any group that thinks his doctrine and practice are still cool...yes what’s obviously missing from wierwille’s legacy is Christ ! Indeed wierwille’s doctrine and practice does take the place of the “absent “ Christ.

The Pyramid Sceme was the perfect business model for wierwille - recruit followers by promising them how much they would gain by recruiting others - the old “receive-retain-release” idea...similar to “giving and receiving “ ...I remember another of wierwille’s “gems” in PFAL along these lines “ the reason the Dead Sea is dead is because it has an inlet but no outlet”...in my opinion all these ideas suggest a follower can’t just sit there and do nothing after taking the class - it’s only when one “gives it away” (share what you’ve learned - get others signed up for the next class, and give of your time, money and resources) that you will see a return on your investment.

as the Wikipedia link suggests the futility of pyramid schemes (here applied to TWI) - as recruiting multiplies, enlisting new way followers becomes more difficult - with most existing members seeing little if any profit - thus in the long haul the pyramid scheme is unsustainable!

 

Edited by T-Bone
Clarity
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/7/2018 at 11:09 AM, T-Bone said:

Reading Rocky’s post on pyramid schemes - made me think of another angle on the word “Antichrist “ in the title of this thread - in the Greek “anti” could mean not only “against” and “opposite of” but also “in place of”...as in - the Way Tree in place of Christ or perhaps even the body of Christ...some passages come to mind:

wierwille’s teaching of the word taking the place of the absent Christ reminds me of another Jesus / another gospel in II Corinthians 11 that warns of being contaminated from the simplicity or exclusiveness that is in Christ.

Such is the way of any cult leader - like wierwille who used the Bible as a means to his dark agenda...to take folks captive through “philosophy and empty deception “ as it’s put in Colossians 2 where deceived Christians are also told to let no one keep on defrauding them through financial and social harm...(or for those who prefer something that sounds biblical - let no one cheat you out of any temporal or eternal blessings).

...wierwille’s insidious legacy is as virulent as ever in any group that thinks his doctrine and practice are still cool...yes what’s obviously missing from wierwille’s legacy is Christ ! Indeed wierwille’s doctrine and practice does take the place of the “absent “ Christ.

The Pyramid Sceme was the perfect business model for wierwille - recruit followers by promising them how much they would gain by recruiting others - the old “receive-retain-release” idea...similar to “giving and receiving “ ...I remember another of wierwille’s “gems” in PFAL along these lines “ the reason the Dead Sea is dead is because it has an inlet but no outlet”...in my opinion all these ideas suggest a follower can’t just sit there and do nothing after taking the class - it’s only when one “gives it away” (share what you’ve learned - get others signed up for the next class, and give of your time, money and resources) that you will see a return on your investment.

as the Wikipedia link suggests the futility of pyramid schemes (here applied to TWI) - as recruiting multiplies, enlisting new way followers becomes more difficult - with most existing members seeing little if any profit - thus in the long haul the pyramid scheme is unsustainable!

 

T-Bone, great observation.  I definitely think it is exactly against Christ because it sets up a human structure in place of Christ.  If something is in place of Christ, then all of the normal benefits of Christ are not being realized.  The adulation and dare say praise owed to Christ are instead diverted to the "other Christ" or "little Christ" or "anti Christ" object.  Any real relationship benefit with our living and ascended Lord and Savior is also replaced.  Even down to the proscribed language of prayer.  Unlike in mainstream Christianity, where people are known to regularly pray to / talk to Jesus in a sense, this is verbotten in the Way, because of a scriptural manipulation.  "We don't pray to the son, we pray to the Father in the name of the Son", and then you have that whole bridge poster or whatever to describe it.

Another way around it is "the Word takes the place of the absent Christ". 

All right - you're going to have to pardon me while I rant for a moment.

<rant>

First off, why the F is Christ so F'ing absent there, F heads (perdon my French as that is what you can substitute in place of the Fs) ? 

Second off, I'm sure you need some "Wierwillein Logic" to get there that involves poor understanding of mathematics transitive property of equality if I recall.

Last, is this some kind of predecessor to the fear and reality that robots are taking my job?  Is Jesus to grow old playing checkers because now he's not needed as "da Verd" has replaced him?

</rant>

I know I will garner criticism in my rant because supposedly the intent is that Christ isn't physically present but your Bible is, with all it's 500+ Bullinger's "also"s marked in your KJV as well as your "holy spirit usage" numbers because you are an Advanced Class graduate and that is a prerequisite LOL.

But really.  Come on now.  Think about it.  No tinfoil hat needed.  Raj can speak to his family in India over Skype personal every Big Bang Theory episode.  But Jesus, who could poof appear to people here and there in his new body, do a nice nature trail on the way to Damascus for a bit then disappear, and all such even before he ascended, he can't really accomplish the real involvement thing?  God has to replace him with a series of tomes many centuries removed from original languages and intents?

No, Christ is only absent because people make Him so.

Cults make Him absent by replacing Him* with centuries old tomes, the interpretation of which is given to wizards in their tribe only.

*So if the capitalization thing triggers you, just think of it as Jesus as my Lord is important enough to me for me to capitalize his pronoun when I'm making a point but sometimes I don't so don't make a thing out of it, K?

Edited by chockfull
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, understanding quantum physics explains the genuine science behind the ability of the Risen Christ to be anywhere and everywhere He wants to be whenever He wants. No problem for me understanding that “miracles, signs, and wonders” are indeed “available” in the physical universe without any need to break or supercede “natural law”. E=MC2 is both a natural and spiritual truth. I am one who chooses to believe that God is as omni- as She chooses to be with absolutely NO limitations. That’s just me.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/6/2018 at 8:05 PM, Rocky said:

Or in a pyramid scheme... why do you think Amway was so attractive to people in TWItville?

"In recent decades, pyramid schemes have become an insidious, pervasive and corrupting influence in the marketplace and community, causing financial and social harm on a global scale."

Since 1980 a new form of sales and marketing, called multi-level marketing or network marketing, has spread worldwide and spawned an explosion of pyramid sales schemes involving tens of millions of consumers. The line between legal forms of network marketing and fraudulent 

pyramid programs is a point of controversy, confusion and inquiry in many countries. Pyramid Scheme Alert will provide much needed information to consumers and other interested parties to reduce the number of illegal and de facto pyramid schemes and victims-and to minimize the severity of effects on individuals and communities.

Rocky,

You are spot on with the pyramid scheme stuff.  And I love the Plato quotes too.

Peace.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, chockfull said:

Rocky,

You are spot on with the pyramid scheme stuff.  And I love the Plato quotes too.

Peace.

Intriguing that Plato wrote that more than 300 years BC!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe Jesus emphasis is more on the vine as something that grows and climbs around, over things and keeps going ? As opposed to a stationary tree, the vine will keep moving, spreading. Blessed to be a branch !!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×