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Severing Family/Church Ties and ....The Destruction of Self

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On 10/12/2018 at 3:35 AM, shiftthis said:

i am part african negro

I'm beginning to think you don't understand what racism means.

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1 hour ago, waysider said:

The Way Tree structuring is NOT Biblical. This has been discussed at great length over the years. It would be impossible to address in one isolated post. I'm not even going to attempt to do this. If you need more detailed information, I would recommend using the search feature to do a more in-depth consideration of this false doctrine.

Oh, it's biblical enough.  Comes right straight from Exodus 18.  You didn't know that?

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1 minute ago, TLC said:

Oh, it's biblical enough.  Comes right straight from Exodus 18.  You didn't know that?

TLC, is that where TWI got that Garbage from??  I throught VPW pulled it out of his Azz.  I always throught the Way Tree was garbage; it was just a way for TWI to keep people enchained. What a happy day it was for me, when I left all that Dung behind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, TLC said:

Oh, it's biblical enough.  Comes right straight from Exodus 18.

I didn't realize this is where it came from.  So VPW didn't know we are living in the new testament times?

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There is a large tree out back of the East Carolina University (ECU) Way Home in Greenville, NC that is a great example, as trees go.  I remember being told in my first year in the Way in 1972-1973 that there's where VPW "got the revelation for the Way Tree."  Even then, at the ripe young age of 17, I thought, "What? He had never seen a tree before?"

 

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2 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

TLC, is that where TWI got that Garbage from??  I throught VPW pulled it out of his Azz.

Was probably like that stuff used in coffee... half and half.

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7 hours ago, TLC said:

Not true.  Just where do you think or suppose the "Way Tree" teachings came from?  Truth is that in practice (even if not as obvious in its doctrinal teachings), twi never actually aligned itself all that well with dispensationalism.  So, so many things (some being much more disguised than others) were right straight out of the old testament...  

I don't know when you were involved, but when I was involved they frequently taught that we are currently "in the grace administration" which they taught will end with the "gathering together". They most certainly did align themselves with dispensationalism back in the day.

TWI from 1990 onward I don't know much about. Maybe they don't teach much about dispensationalism these days. I have no clue. Maybe shiftthis or some recent escapees could shed some light on this.

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7 hours ago, Infoabsorption said:

I don't know when you were involved, but when I was involved they frequently taught that we are currently "in the grace administration" which they taught will end with the "gathering together". They most certainly did align themselves with dispensationalism back in the day.

Oh, I'm quite aware of what was and wasn't taught "back in the day," which is why I rather specifically referred to what was practiced.  You can talk about the apostle Paul and the grace administration all you want.  But, if you miss both why and when it started, and fail to adhere to it on a practical level... how well "aligned" with it do you honestly think that is?  (Perhaps you might try reading my previous post a bit more carefully.)  Quite frankly, I suppose anyone that thinks that vpw (or twi) aligned themselves with Paul's gospel, evidently doesn't know one or the other of them very well.  That said, if one isn't capable of making a clear distinction and separation between the gospel of the kingdom and the Paul's gospel of grace, what do they really know or understand about dispensationalism?     

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On 10/14/2018 at 10:14 AM, waysider said:

I'm beginning to think you don't understand what racism means.

I am well aware of what racism means.

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On 10/14/2018 at 5:05 PM, Infoabsorption said:

I don't know when you were involved, but when I was involved they frequently taught that we are currently "in the grace administration" which they taught will end with the "gathering together". They most certainly did align themselves with dispensationalism back in the day.

TWI from 1990 onward I don't know much about. Maybe they don't teach much about dispensationalism these days. I have no clue. Maybe shiftthis or some recent escapees could shed some light on this.

twi teaches that we are in the grace administration.

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They might say "grace administration," but they have become more legalistic than ever, from what I can see, in what they actually "teach."  I doubt that, practically, they have the faintest idea of what "grace" means, is, and enables. 

And as for "graceful" and "gracefulness" ... well, that's okay as long as you do what they sayDon't think about being individual or doing anything different.  And whatever you do, don't look at the chains that invisibly bind you to that organisation.

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"twi teaches that we are in the grace administration. "

 

"They might say "grace administration," but they have become more legalistic than ever, from what I can see, in what they actually "teach."  I doubt that, practically, they have the faintest idea of what "grace" means, is, and enables. 

And as for "graceful" and "gracefulness" ... well, that's okay as long as you do what they sayDon't think about being individual or doing anything different.  And whatever you do, don't look at the chains that invisibly bind you to that organisation."

================================

Here's an un-twi idea.

Why not actually look at what twi does and evaluate whether or not THAT matches up to the Bible?   The way you're doing it now is that-if they say all the right things- they can do whatever they want and you'll give them a pass because they SAID they did all the RIGHT things while DOING all the WRONG things.

Back in twi, I saw a church pastor read and study, then teach on I Corinthians 12 & 14.  He read-and said- that tongues were supposed to be interpreted when in the church. Then he closed his sermon, and led the "charismatic" portion of the evening. That included at least a few people I heard that "spoke in tongues"- and absolutely nobody cared that there was no attempt at an interpretation, not even the pastor.  Really.  That wasn't even 30 minutes after he said "we're not supposed to do this" and he's leading his group while the do exactly that, and he was fine with it.   So, talking a good talk is not exclusive to twi (OBVIOUSLY), but twi relies on it to get EVERYTHING past the radar of all the participants.

 

 

 

 

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On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 5:05 PM, Infoabsorption said:

They most certainly did align themselves with dispensationalism back in the day.

You know, the more I think about this statement, the more troubling it becomes.

Why?  Well, primarily because of the deceptiveness of it.  Here it is in a nutshell:

1) Intricately associate TWI with dispensationalism and "the gospel of grace" (which has been so easily done by so many,  for many, many, many years.)
2) Discredit TWI (which has also become rather easy to do.)
3) Point to dispensationalism as being one of the main, root problems of TWI.
4) Conclude that dispensationlism itself is all f'd up and must be avoided at all costs.  (And you might as well toss Paul's epistles in with it while you're at it.)

To one degree or another (some more, some less), it's been happening here at GSC for as long as I can recall reading here. 
(and previously, I've been rather viciously maligned or slandered for even daring to bring up the issue or speak out on such matters...)

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13 hours ago, Twinky said:

They might say "grace administration," but they have become more legalistic than ever, from what I can see, in what they actually "teach." 

Not that you said this, Twinky, but I trust that you know they didn't strangely or suddenly just "become" legalistic overnight.  Hindsight being what it is, the roots of legalism within twi were well developed long before any of us (old timers included) were involved.  So much so, that frankly speaking, it can be somewhat shocking when you really start digging around beneath the surface.  How else do you think ego's became so easily puffed up and bloated, if not through legalism?  You ever see grace do that?

Edited by TLC

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Sounds like we're about to venture off into Doctrinal.

Frankly, I couldn't care less.  I'd just like to see people living together and treating each other with a very large measure of respect. 

I'd say that no matter what "dispensation," knowing God was about empowerment and building people up, both as individuals and as nations.  I can't think of where God deliberately puts people down, infantilises them and wants to bully them into submission by filling them with deep fear.  From early on, God's message has been "Fear not!" and "Have courage!" and the exhortation has been "Choose you this day..." whether to choose God's path of righteousness, or some other path that leads away from God's righteousness.  For those that chose the "other" path, there was always a way back to God's righteous path.  Even the first murderer, Cain, was "marked and protected," not "marked and avoided."

 

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3 minutes ago, TLC said:

Not that you said this, Twinky, but I trust that you know they didn't strangely or suddenly just "become" legalistic overnight.  Hindsight being what it is, the roots of legalism within twi were well developed long before any of us (old timers included) were involved.  So much so, that frankly speaking, it can be somewhat shocking when you really start digging around beneath the surface.  How else do you think ego's became so easily puffed up and bloated, if not through legalism?  You ever see grace do that?

 

No, people didn't become legalistic overnight.  Fear was instilled from early on in fellowships, sometimes subtly, sometimes more overtly, depending on who was in charge at any given time.  It came from the top - from the beginning.  Probably based how VPW was raised, in a more formal environment nearly a century ago; and with perhaps an even stricter German adherence to how things ought to be; and then, when the money started to flow in, an increasing desire to retain control.

So you take your wannabe leaders (Corps), convince them that being hard on people is "tough love" and is really showing the love of God; instill deeper fear into them because they've already given up a lot to enter the Corps program; bully and intimidate those that you can do this to (and throw out those you can't intimidate enough); make a few scapegoats where you can, using quite petty examples of rule-infraction (those that you throw out are good for this purpose); and then when you've rebuilt your victims, these remaining bullied people, in your own image, you can use them to transmit this "tough love" approach to intimidate those lower down the pecking order. 

It is exactly how abusers "condition" their victims.  It's known as "coercive control."  And those victims that managed to survive oftentimes become "twice the child of hell" (Mt 23:15) as their teachers, and meantime the teachers can appear lily-white and say that wasn't what happened at all, and they, the teachers, did everything for the good of the victim.  Just like abusers all do.

Other bullied people might themselves have had a bullying and/or manipulative nature, and they used this as a strength to help them rise in power, prestige, whatever.  T-Bone says that Corps training was like sprinkling Miracle-Gro on our faults.  I certainly think he has a good point there.

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25 minutes ago, TLC said:

You know, the more I think about this statement, the more troubling it becomes.

Why?  Well, primarily because of the deceptiveness of it.  Here it is in a nutshell:

1) Intricately associate TWI with dispensationalism and "the gospel of grace" (which has been so easily done by so many,  for many, many, many years.)
2) Discredit TWI (which has also become rather easy to do.)
3) Point to dispensationalism as being one of the main, root problems of TWI.
4) Conclude that dispensationlism itself is all f'd up and must be avoided at all costs.  (And you might as well toss Paul's epistles in with it while you're at it.)

To one degree or another (some more, some less), it's been happening here at GSC for as long as I can recall reading here. 
(and previously, I've been rather viciously maligned or slandered for even daring to bring up the issue or speak out on such matters...)

Dispensationalism is all f*d up and was/is one of the main problems with TWI. Paul's writings were distorted by dispensationalists such as J.N. Darby and E.W. Bullinger. There is no exegetical justification within Paul's writings to conclude that the dispensation of grace will end at the gathering together(rapture) which then triggers a re-establishment of the 'Law Administration" for 7 years. It's not there! Ephesians 3 describes exactly what changed in the dispensation of grace: that the Gentiles are included and joint heirs with Christ. All this other stuff is false doctrine.

I agree with Twinky that this thread is turning into doctrinal so I'm done with it.

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3 minutes ago, Twinky said:

 

No, people didn't become legalistic overnight.  Fear was instilled from early on in fellowships, sometimes subtly, sometimes more overtly, depending on who was in charge at any given time.  It came from the top - from the beginning.  Probably based how VPW was raised, in a more formal environment nearly a century ago; and with perhaps an even stricter German adherence to how things ought to be; and then, when the money started to flow in, an increasing desire to retain control.

So you take your wannabe leaders (Corps), convince them that being hard on people is "tough love" and is really showing the love of God; instill deeper fear into them because they've already given up a lot to enter the Corps program; bully and intimidate those that you can do this to (and throw out those you can't intimidate enough); make a few scapegoats where you can, using quite petty examples of rule-infraction (those that you throw out are good for this purpose); and then when you've rebuilt your victims, these remaining bullied people, in your own image, you can use them to transmit this "tough love" approach to intimidate those lower down the pecking order. 

It is exactly how abusers "condition" their victims.  It's known as "coercive control."  And those victims that managed to survive oftentimes become "twice the child of hell" (Mt 23:15) as their teachers, and meantime the teachers can appear lily-white and say that wasn't what happened at all, and they, the teachers, did everything for the good of the victim.  Just like abusers all do.

Other bullied people might themselves have had a bullying and/or manipulative nature, and they used this as a strength to help them rise in power, prestige, whatever.  T-Bone says that Corps training was like sprinkling Miracle-Gro on our faults.  I certainly think he has a good point there.

TLC, bingo!!

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1 minute ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

TLC, bingo!!

Mmmmmmmmm... I'm Twinky, not TLC.

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30 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Twinky, please forgive me!!  Great post Twinky!!

 

 

HAHA! Hey Grace! Too much Drambuie aye?  LOL!

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The supposed Way Tree “revelation” was never plagiarized from anywhere in the Bible. It was plagiarized almost directly (surprise, surprise, surprise!) from The AA Book released in 1937 to accompany the “Big Book” which had been published in 1935. The title of that book is “The 12 Traditions of Alcoholics Anonymous”. I have posted the entire text of the 12 traditions somewhere here on the GSC along with a number of other posts on this topic if anyone is interested.

The only reason there are ANY “scripture references” cherrypicked from the KJV to “validate” or “substantiate” anything close to the effective non-profit business structure Dr. Bob and Bill designed for GENUINE SERVICE to humanity, not a self-serving MLM scam, is that is what dic used to verify “his own” business structure. So ya find an Exodus 18, or the Psalm about a tree planted by the waters, or the Jesus tree parables from the Gospels. 

Wierwille’s ENTIRE text for his corpse teachings on Acts, relied upon the annotations, and the “literary structure” Of Acts as arranged by Bullinger, into the “8 Great Sections Of The Book Of Acts” based upon, “The 8 Great Statements in the Book Of Acts”, in Bullinger’s Companion Bible as well as several of its appendices. It provides basically the entire source of da forehead’s “book” on “Rise and Expansion” along with wierwille PI and “guidance”, as well as the same bullshit  (only worse) “revelations”, “guidance” and “thus saith the Lord” bluster the moron could muster. LOL!

So, any discussion of how or where or when, the way bush “revelation” came upon dictor paul before he got his first Companion Bible and How To Enjoy The Bible from ole Doc Higgins in Chicago in 1955, is basically mute. There was NEVER ANY such revelation in the Bible or anywhere else outside wierwille’s delusional, severely ill mind. Have a nice night!

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