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Was VPW a holocaust denier?

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I was only involved in TWI from 2009-2017 and have heard vague rumors that VPW did not believe the Holocaust happened. Does anyone know if that is true? Was he also anti-Semitic? I was Jewish before believing in Jesus so I find it very offensive and if it’s true and I had known, I never would have gotten involved with TWI in the first place and could have avoided all the grief from them from those 8 years of my life. 

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We were encouraged to read "The Myth of the Six Million" which as I recall either denied the Holocaust or said fewer died than believed.  And I remember Craig yelling about "The Jews" and how they "control everything".

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Oh yeah, I thought of another thing - the book "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler was promoted.  It's premise is that the Jews of today are not descendants of the 12 tribes but are really from the Kaisers, whose country was located between a Muslim country and a Christian country (as I recall).  Their solution was to adopt Judaism in order to avoid political conflict.

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1 hour ago, outandabout said:

Oh yeah, I thought of another thing - the book "The Thirteenth Tribe" by Arthur Koestler was promoted.  It's premise is that the Jews of today are not descendants of the 12 tribes but are really from the Kaisers, whose country was located between a Muslim country and a Christian country (as I recall).  Their solution was to adopt Judaism in order to avoid political conflict.

That book was recommended and CARRIED IN THE TWI BOOKSTORE.  The claim was that modern Jews were descendants of the Khazars, not the historical Jews.  Genetic testing proved the premise was incorrect, because the modern Jews carry genetic markers of historical Jews and lack genetic markers of the Khazars.  So, wrong TWICE. 

Also, can't call them "Jews" in twi, have to call them "Judeans."   Not sure why.

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1 hour ago, outandabout said:

We were encouraged to read "The Myth of the Six Million" which as I recall either denied the Holocaust or said fewer died than believed.  And I remember Craig yelling about "The Jews" and how they "control everything".

If you look over some old threads, we discussed the Holocaust.  A few posters consistently insisted the numbers of dead were GREATLY exaggerated (as in, hundreds died or something rather than millions), and the evidence was FAKED.   Is it any coincidence that ALL the posters who pulled that were ALL posters who were big boosters of vpw, who always tried to whitewash his image clean of his rapes, druggings, molestations, plagiarism, vices, and so on?

 

vpw was very pro-German, and claimed his German heritage meant his family was very industrious and hard-working. (BTW, vpw was a lazy boy on the farm who ran off into the forest and disappeared for hours rather than do his chores.)    He also insinuated he got revelation all the time, and some of what he said when he did came straight from the John Birch Society, which is a conspiracy shop and so on.   

 

Those who knew him PERSONALLY could say more, and I'm sure they will.  :)

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Based on my personal experiences with VPW, I would say yes, he was a holocaust denier. He sold that awful book, The Myth of the Six Million, in The Way bookstore when I got involved in 1970.

Karl Kahler cites the following in his book, The Cult That Snapped: A Journey into The Way International:

"In a mailing to students of the 1979 Advanced Class, The Way recommended that students read The Hoax of the Twentieth Century and The Myth of the Six Million, which claim that the Nazi Holocaust either never happened or was grossly exaggerated by Zionist propagandists in order to win sympathy for Jews." pg. 119

There are other passages in Karl's book, which can be purchased from Lulu online at http://www.lulu.com/shop/karl-kahler/the-cult-that-snapped/paperback/product-14363949.html 

The following is from my own book, Undertow (available -- cough, cough-- for sale online at major booksellers):

"In 1982, I had attended a small research fellowship meeting during
which Wierwille had said, “I’m not afraid of those Jews who are out to
get me.” I have no knowledge of any actual threat, but I do know that
Wierwille’s selling of the book The Myth of the Six Million, which denies
the Holocaust, was evidence of his anti-Semitic attitude. He blustered
about dozens of other things, too—the IRS, cult deprogrammers, upset
parents, the preachers in New Knoxville. Wierwille would say, “The
Devil has his boys after me, but they won’t get me.”

 

 

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There are numerous posts here in the archives somewhere which include quite a bit of history and eyewitnessconfirmation of wierwille’s pathologic Nazi Aryanism, abject racism, and agreement with the basic religious ideology of the Third Reich. There was of course, a warped spiritualistic theology which accompanied the Nazi “mystique”. Well documented and quite interesting, you can find many vetted documentaries on the religious and spiritualistic rationalizations made for Naziism. 

The bottom line culmination of the matter for me, is wrapped up in the oft repeated quote during my 2 years of in-Rez corpse indoctrination, which wierwille himself spoke often in the fake safety of “nite owls with da corpse”........: “ Hitler was right. He just went a little too far at the end. We fought on the wrong side in WW II. We’re still paying the price!”! What more does anyone need to know?

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There is a thread somewhere here, in which I document the events leading up to my being thrown off dictor paul’s motor coach on I-35, at a rest stop on the way to WIBAP 1982 in Kansas City. He demanded that I take the lead on “fighting those fucking Jews in KC who are gonna picket me at WIBAP!”. When I responded, “Dr. (sic!), what does that have to do with moving the word over the world”? That’s when the purple-faced, neck-vein-popping order was barked out to Kramden Geer, the bus driver, to “pull over and get rid of this sonofabitch!”. Thankfully, by serendipity, we were within 2 miles of a rest stop, from which I called Emporia and begged a ride from another wayfer heading toward WIBAP. What a shitshow!

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy

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DWBH:  VPW got bolder with expressing his hate speech as the years went by. I was in the 2nd Corps and you were in the 4th and he didn't express his sympathetic views about Hitler in any private meetings with us that I remember, but, knowing you, I do not doubt your recollection! 

 

 

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Yup Charlene! You can ask anyone in the 4th. They should ALL remember it, and I bet some do with genuine Trumpian pride. Enough said.

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7 hours ago, penworks said:

DWBH:  VPW got bolder with expressing his hate speech as the years went by. I was in the 2nd Corps and you were in the 4th and he didn't express his sympathetic views about Hitler in any private meetings with us that I remember, but, knowing you, I do not doubt your recollection! 

 

 

Anytime you have to hike 2 miles to a rest stop, then phone someone to get a ride because you were kicked off a vehicle on the highway,  well, it makes an impression on you. I'm sure the memories of that day are PARTICULARLY vivid.

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DWBH: Had any Drambuie, or other lubricant, been flowing in the Coach when those veins popped out and you were so Righteously tossed off? HAH! LOL. Really! He did that? Hadn't heard that one.

I recalled the other day, during a contemplative moment, about the underlying Nazi control system in place. RalphD was right in calling VP "Der Fuhrer" and I shudder to think how I fell in line with it as a Storm Trooper in training...10th.

I also recall, and feel, that my intro to this control was in 1974ish under the authoritarian reign of a fellow I shall call K**tF , 3rd. Our WV limb guy. Anonymous enough except to DWBH and Penworks, and maybe more. We had to stand up when he entered the room out of "respect for the Word of God that is inside me." Something like that. Very close to VPW. 

Then, a SNS tape called, never forget it, " The Way of Life or Death." In this wonderful teaching, a good joke in there, too, that I still tell, he erupted 3/4's way through because the ushers were still allowing folks to be seated in the BRC. Five minutes of Public Humiliation on the ushers, nasty butt chewing, then on everyone pretty much, for not having the respect for the Word that he had. Then off the stage in a self- justified anger, I suppose. No closing song on the tape. NICE!

So, the elements for control, like the Nazis, were there as we know.

And, yes, I did read "The Thirteenth Tribe" and who cares. The Myth book and the other I believe are sold by NeoNazi groups. Hard to find in those daze without an internet, perhaps? I do think I heard him say "...he pushed it too far at the end," too. Too young and green to know what he meant.

Edited by engine

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vpw went through a LOT of alcohol in the average week, so I would be more surprised if he was SOBER at the time.

(BTW, I ran into technical problems when I was posting links last night, so I included a link back to this thread accidentally while working around the problems. I hope nobody cares.)

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On 2/21/2019 at 12:22 PM, WordWolf said:

Also, can't call them "Jews" in twi, have to call them "Judeans."   Not sure why.

According to twi biblically jews in the bible should be called Judeans because they were from the province of Judea. Modern day jews were descended from the Khazars and are non-Judeans and ok to call Jews. Bout as clear as mud?.....lol

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14 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

According to twi biblically jews in the bible should be called Judeans because they were from the province of Judea. Modern day jews were descended from the Khazars and are non-Judeans and ok to call Jews. Bout as clear as mud?.....lol

VPW based some of his assertions on information that has since been proven to be erroneous, thanks to improved DNA testing methods.

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8 minutes ago, waysider said:

VPW based some of his assertions on information that has since been proven to be erroneous, thanks to improved DNA testing methods.

No doubt.....twi hasnt gottwn the news though....tbey still teach that crap.

Edited by OldSkool
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They used to say that if something they taught was found to be in error they would change their teaching. Remember the time they did exactly that? Yeah, me neither

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21 hours ago, waysider said:

They used to say that if something they taught was found to be in error they would change their teaching. Remember the time they did exactly that? Yeah, me neither

At one point, vpw made a big deal about supposedly doing that.  He used to say "God set His Word above His Name."  Someone showed him the verse didn't say "set". it said "magnified."

So, the best example vpw could find- and he announced it- was switching "set" for "magnified".      If he couldn't find a real example of himself changing anything if he was caught making an error, I'll take it as a given he never corrected any significant error (just the thing I mentioned.)

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I remember once, he said they miscalculated the time span between the resurrection and the ascension. Other than that, not so much.

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Yes, Engine, I remember who K.F. was. His insisting people stand up when he entered the room definitely was something VPW taught us early Way Corps people. It was worse with men and women he ordained who assumed they represented God wherever they went.

So much ego, so much b.s.

Edited by penworks
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13 hours ago, penworks said:

Yes, Engine, I remember who K.F. was.

Hah.  I remember now- we had to call him Mr. F until he GOT ordained. THEN it was, of course, Rev F. 'Nuff said about him.

Edited by engine
add info

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On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:05 AM, engine said:

DWBH: Had any Drambuie, or other lubricant, been flowing in the Coach when those veins popped out and you were so Righteously tossed off? HAH! LOL. Really! He did that? Hadn't heard that one.

I recalled the other day, during a contemplative moment, about the underlying Nazi control system in place. RalphD was right in calling VP "Der Fuhrer" and I shudder to think how I fell in line with it as a Storm Trooper in training...10th.

I also recall, and feel, that my intro to this control was in 1974ish under the authoritarian reign of a fellow I shall call K**tF , 3rd. Our WV limb guy. Anonymous enough except to DWBH and Penworks, and maybe more. We had to stand up when he entered the room out of "respect for the Word of God that is inside me." Something like that. Very close to VPW. 

Then, a SNS tape called, never forget it, " The Way of Life or Death." In this wonderful teaching, a good joke in there, too, that I still tell, he erupted 3/4's way through because the ushers were still allowing folks to be seated in the BRC. Five minutes of Public Humiliation on the ushers, nasty butt chewing, then on everyone pretty much, for not having the respect for the Word that he had. Then off the stage in a self- justified anger, I suppose. No closing song on the tape. NICE!

So, the elements for control, like the Nazis, were there as we know.

And, yes, I did read "The Thirteenth Tribe" and who cares. The Myth book and the other I believe are sold by NeoNazi groups. Hard to find in those daze without an internet, perhaps? I do think I heard him say "...he pushed it too far at the end," too. Too young and green to know what he meant.

I think I was there when that happened. Was it around 1974?  He was pounding he podium. yeah, he was ....ed that ushers were still ushering.  He said something like the devil would destroy the ministry if he weren't around.  If it wasn't the time you're talking about, it happened then too.

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