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skyrider

Splinter Cults are WORSE........not better

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Again, imo........the reason why I view splinter cults are worse than twi........is based on my original interest and involvement.  It can be succinctly summed up by something that DWBH stated in the thread The Six Stages of Wierwille's Climb to Power:

 

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:02 PM, DontWorryBeHappy said:

.....

Imho, Dic had a lot less to do with building his cult than the first 5 corpses and the WOW program. It was those groups that most adored dictor, enjoyed the thrill and joy of genuine Christian revival when they first took that class thing, were free enough to just pick  up and go wherever the man-o-gawd told them too. It was not dictor or the stupid class that got me into TWIt. It was my closest and most beloved friends. It was the power of miracles, signs, and wonders and no authoritarian control.........

 

NOW......splinter cults have an inserted LEVEL OF AUTHORITARIAN PONTIFICATORS at the onset.   Guys who've been around for 45 years rehashing wierwille teachings and cultclap one-liners at every turn.  No thanks.  Who wants to be led around by a bunch of 65-year old know-it-alls?  The youth have disappeared back into life.....gone baby gone.

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4 hours ago, waysider said:

 

So people can see what is in the youtube link before clicking on it.

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Splinter Cults, who elevate wierwille at every turn, are deceivers.......and deceive themselves.

How many times did wierwille's prophecies NOT COME TO PASS?

  • The Wierwilles must stand together......or The Word will not live.
  • The corps are responsible for taking care of the wierwille family.
  • The prophecy of Luke Summerv1lle, wierwille's grandson, as the 3rd president of twi.
  • A grand-scale "Family Camp For All Believers" would be built at Camp Gunnison.
  • ..........(etc.)

When are splinter cults going to acknowledge that wierwille had scores of false prophecies?  /sarc

Cherry-picking the things they agree with.......and dismissing the things they don't.

To those who've done an honest assessment and review.....the wierwille legacy is in shambles.

Blood Lines Matter

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Yeah, Skyrider.... splinters are oftentimes worse than the original disease from which they metastasized!

Look at “Rev” Charlie Quillen’s “Faithful In Christ Ministries” out of Chicago, IL & hooked in tight with CFFM, SOWERS, Wrenn, Reahard and all the other pathetic wierwilleites running around the fringiest fringes of the Alt-Right Aryan “Christian”  Dominionist groups flooding the evangelical fundamentalist persecuted hordes of the faithful! They provide shelter and cover for each other, doing their best to sweep away all the blood tracks dripping back to Wierwille, The Way, and and all the spiritual and sexual abuse that they participated in and/or enabled!

Quillen (along with MacMullan) was the wannabe Heinrich Himmler of the wierwille/martindale reich....Head Of The Gestapo and SS. We’ve had tons of stories here at the GSC through the years, involving the creepy stares and eerie presence of the “bless patrol chief’s” security for the MOGs of TWI. Standing guard at the door of the motor coach as the abused victims marched in and out under the watchful stare of “Rev” Quillen and “Rev” Geer,  game OF Thrones 1970s cornfield cult style! LOL!

Well, now “Rev” Charlie has a pretty decent sized Wierwille-cult in IL now and has all sorts of “related pages” and “ministries” he sponsors, like “The Solution Radio Show: Jesus Christ Is God’s Solution” which is advertised all over Charlie’s pages. Greg Backes runs the joint and hooks up with old TWIt broadcast refugees like Mike Verdicchio, the voice  of Sprits In The Althlete, who also does some jeeezus show on some radio station out west somewhere. CFFM, and SOWERS are heavily promoted as is Sparrow Cartoons, a “Christian” cartoon publishing company owned and operated by none other then one of Charlie’s most loyal Blesstapo Patrol henchman, and Heinrich Himmler to convicted rapist and cult leader, and fellow corpse bruddah, Victor Barnard! Frontczak has 476 likes and followers on his page now! 

Taking care of each other is now their job, instead of taking care of the wierwille family. Well......same thing really, since the only wierwille’s still living are all active in CFFM, SOWERS, or John Hagee Ministries......and these ex-wayfer cults are all intermarried with each other!

So, I agree, Skyrider. The splinters are worse in the sense that they have brewed and distilled wierwillean doctrinal and psychosocial perversion down into a slick, state-of-the-art megachurch con, as good and as far removed from what’s left of TWIt in New Knoxville and Gunnison. Makes it easier to “forgive” your old pals and overlook their current associations and alliances with cult-buddies and grifters from their glory daze in TWIt, boozin’ and sexin’ it up in the name of jeeezus and da holy spurt! Worse than hypocrites......cowardly, shameful enablers. Worse indeed, Skyrider. Worse indeed.

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9 hours ago, DontWorryBeHappy said:

Yeah, Skyrider.... splinters are oftentimes worse than the original disease from which they metastasized!

.......[snip]

Taking care of each other is now their job, instead of taking care of the wierwille family. Well......same thing really, since the only wierwille’s still living are all active in CFFM, SOWERS, or John Hagee Ministries......and these ex-wayfer cults are all intermarried with each other!

So, I agree, Skyrider. The splinters are worse in the sense that they have brewed and distilled wierwillean doctrinal and psychosocial perversion down into a slick, state-of-the-art megachurch con, as good and as far removed from what’s left of TWIt in New Knoxville and Gunnison. Makes it easier to “forgive” your old pals and overlook their current associations and alliances with cult-buddies and grifters from their glory daze in TWIt, boozin’ and sexin’ it up in the name of jeeezus and da holy spurt! Worse than hypocrites......cowardly, shameful enablers. Worse indeed, Skyrider. Worse indeed.

Yeah.......splinter cults "taking care of each other."

  • The "reverends" stay "reverends."
  • Corps still hold spiritual status and leadership roles in this two-tier system.
  • Rather than align with wierwille-mandates of DFAC (dropped from active corps).....they dismiss vpw's contempt on cop-outs.
  • The splinter cults laud pfal-doctrine..........yet, bury every corps letter (and teaching) that wierwille directed their way.
  • Cognitive dissonance is on parade as these splinter cults fly their flags and wear their masks.
  • And then, others follow them into these splinter cults.......because "churches are evil messengers."
  • OMG.......is this what institutionalized means?

Psychosocial perversions, indeed.

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So.......how much divergence of the wierwille-doctrine can you have and still be considered "a wierwille follower?"

Muddy the waters all you want..........but if you weren't in "The Way" then you were out of fellowship.   :spy:

  1. As ex-corps, can you throw away all the corps letters and teachings .........and still be deemed in the top tier of spiritual status?
  2. If the corps.....er, ex-corps don't uphold the standards that wierwille taught.......then, advanced class grads and ex-corps are on EQUAL footing.
  3. Umm...............same goes for ex-reverends.  You can't claim reverend status and refute/rebuff the source of that claimed status.
  4. How much can you dismiss and water-down.......before you become unrecognizable as a splinter cult of twi?
  5. When the heavy-handedness is removed and questions enter the fray........who holds the authority over all the others?
  6. As more questions surface about wierwille and/or his teachings.......do they get a fair hearing or harsh confrontation?
  7. Sound doctrine should be able to withstand an onslaught of questions.......from every angle.
  8. Sound practice should be able to address all the questions regarding wierwille's past plagiarism, predation and pathologies.

Now, is the time to separate truth from error.

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On 5/19/2019 at 10:01 AM, skyrider said:

How long before someone posts on GSC......... "I left the Revival and Restoration Group, and here's why......."

I considered doing this but then determined, since I wasn't really with them in the first place, it wasn't my place.  I just basically stopped interacting with them.

And it's true, they still hold VPW in high esteem, and they do still teach his teachings, albeit phrased a little differently sometimes.  Thankfully, while I was still listening to their teachings, they had stopped teaching the most bizarre aspects, like breathing in to receive holy spirit.  And it is also true they have retained their reverend titles - reverend of what?  I wonder.  And probably the most irritating aspect, which is the main reason I lost interest, is it's the same core group that do the teachings, teaching what they think everyone needs to hear.

 

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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100016192807823

Here’s one of Frontczak’s most faithful followers. She and her 4 Barnard boys are very tied in to Markie and Grandma Jean. Jess Schweiss’ sisters and mom are having fun in MOGGIE Mark’s cult too! Just one big happy perverted Wayfer cult family with cartoons!! Funny to watch them carry on as if they were never responsible for assisting Victor Barnard  in his sexual abuse and rape of 10 underage girls, including their own!! It’s good to be a cult leader, and the right hand enabler of one! Good food too!

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And we are naming/outing her because?

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Because she is Barnard’s wife. She supported, promoted, assisted, and partook of the perverted fruit of his perverted way tree splinter in Finlayson, MN, Bellingham and Spokane, WA, and in Brazil. They still don’t think they did anything wrong! Just like with TWIt...... it’s ALL Victor’s fault!! They were just following God’s orders like Adolph Eichmann!

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy

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December 1978 Corps Letter

What was happening in December 1978?  Why were clergy leaving twi?

  • [ Shortly after Jim Jones and Jonestown Cult mass murder ]

Note:  1) The "great accuracy of the Word" and 2) the principles of The Way Ministry are interlocked !! 

If you LEAVE twi......you LEAVE the word.

~~~~~~~~~~~

  • "Some I ordained have not remained faithful -- they've broken fellowship with God and the household of The Way.  Yet, I was good enough, loved God and you enough, and you were blessed and honored enough to accept God's ordination and my blessing.  Breaking of ordination commitments has made me very hesitant about future ordinations.  What should I do?"
  • "Why all the problems?  I think you know what I mean?  Fighting and dislike of each other -- jealously, prejudice, divorce, remarriage, dope, etc. etc. etc.  God forbid that our ordinations of Way Corps grads turn into a mockery, and a laughingstock of the community."
  • "The least you could do if you were ordained and now you're outside the household of The Way is never to used the term 'Reverend.'   If you're still sticking in the household of The Way but you've neglected the loyalty commitment to the ordination vows and the exciting, continuing fellowship of it, build up your life on the Word and believe again in the great accuracy of the Word, and principles of The Way Ministry, that your ordination may again be meaningful."                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
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On 5/10/2019 at 5:07 AM, Raf said:

As cynical as I can be, I would refrain from making such a blanket statement. I think there are some who are sincerely trying to do their best and are not in it for the glory. That's not to say there isn't some ego involved -- a splinter group, by definition, is led by people who think they can do a better job than the group they left. But to declare them unworthy to be ministers... I don't know. It certainly applies to some, but I cannot see where it applies to all. Sincerity may not be a guarantee for truth, but it is a guarantee for sincerity.

I agree with Raf on this. Using my own figurative and not literal language,  to see if they have made or make a change, perhaps reach out with your hand like you would with a dog. Then look and see if they wag their tail, while listening to make sure they don’t growl or bark. If they growl or bark then simply walk away. If they wag their tail then perhaps either pet them or wag your tail also.

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Mark agrees with Raf.

Put it on your calendar.

We will celebrate the anniversary of this next year 

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DWBH: I am taking you at your word that the person you identified as Victor Barnard's wife is, in fact, his wife.

EDIT: This post originally appeared to be directed entirely at DWBH. That was my communication error, for which I take sole responsibility. The remainder of this post is directed at ALL USERS. Multiple user posts were deleted, INCLUDING MY OWN. DWBH did not deserve to have the entire post appear to be directed at him. I am deeply sorry. --modcat5, Raf. 

Personal "calling out" of posters for being "friends" or "followers" on Facebook will not be tolerated on this site. To be clear, there are people who "like" and "follow" pages and identify as "friends" with people for the purpose of being able to keep track of what those people do and say on social media. It does NOT necessarily mean those people are actually "friends" or that the "follower" is indeed a follower of that person. I "follow" and monitor multiple people and campaigns that I do not endorse, either on a personal or especially on a professional level.

Multiple posts on this thread were deleted in their entirety. One was trimmed to eliminate what I consider to be a minor but significant infraction of our rules.

This thread is about its topic. Any future posts that are not on topic will be deleted. Not edited. Not trimmed. Not examined. Deleted.

Please do not transfer an argument from a previous thread, especially one where the offending comments have been deleted, onto other threads.

On a personal note: Dear friends are putting us in a position of having to take sides. We don't want to. But when it comes to GSC, we have ONE side: GSC. We will do what we must in the best interest of the site. If we err, we err. But it will NOT be out of disrespect for the mission, purpose and interest of GSC.

I hope and trust this is the last time moderators will need to intervene in this dispute.

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10 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

  •  
  • "The least you could do if you were ordained and now you're outside the household of The Way is never to used the term "Reverend."

    Victor Paul Wierwille                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Welcome back......

  • Mr. Bob Moynihan
  • Mr. Michael Fort
  • Mr. Ed Horney
  • Mr. Rico Magnelli
  • Mr. Tom Knupp
  • etc.

.........to the land of mere mortals.       :biglaugh:

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Hmm, she did that in 2016, when he first appeared in court.  Distancing herself.  Closing the door after the horse has bolted, as it were.  What, she only just found out about Vic's indiscretions? :biglaugh:

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13 hours ago, Mark Sanguinetti said:

I agree with Raf on this. Using my own figurative and not literal language,  to see if they have made or make a change, perhaps reach out with your hand like you would with a dog. Then look and see if they wag their tail, while listening to make sure they don’t growl or bark. If they growl or bark then simply walk away. If they wag their tail then perhaps either pet them or wag your tail also.

I suppose, in an absolute sense, that's true.    In practice, however, I'd probably follow that behavior more with, say, one guy teaching the Bible in his living room than, say, the official head of some splinter organization.    I'd be a LOT more leery of those.   In an absolutist sense,  perhaps one should consider they MAY not be the pride-blinded bloodsuckers that some of their peers are.    At the same time, one should be prepared for the possibility that they interpret  "Hello" as "Tell me about the latest thing for which you're charging money." (JAL's standard response when he's hawking Momentus under the table while he's denying he is, for example.)         Then again, at my first twig meeting, I kept one eye on the door the entire time. 

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1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

Then again, at my first twig meeting, I kept one eye on the door the entire time.

Must have been the eye that doesn't see so well. We all have one.

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15 hours ago, Mark Sanguinetti said:

I agree with Raf on this. Using my own figurative and not literal language,  to see if they have made or make a change, perhaps reach out with your hand like you would with a dog. Then look and see if they wag their tail, while listening to make sure they don’t growl or bark. If they growl or bark then simply walk away. If they wag their tail then perhaps either pet them or wag your tail also.

 

2 hours ago, WordWolf said:

I suppose, in an absolute sense, that's true.    In practice, however, I'd probably follow that behavior more with, say, one guy teaching the Bible in his living room than, say, the official head of some splinter organization.    I'd be a LOT more leery of those.   In an absolutist sense,  perhaps one should consider they MAY not be the pride-blinded bloodsuckers that some of their peers are.    At the same time, one should be prepared for the possibility that they interpret  "Hello" as "Tell me about the latest thing for which you're charging money." (JAL's standard response when he's hawking Momentus under the table while he's denying he is, for example.)         Then again, at my first twig meeting, I kept one eye on the door the entire time. 

 

In this figurative, hypothetical situation............several questions surface:

  1. Why do I feel a need to approach this "dog" in the first place?
  2. What breed is this "dog?".......Rottweiler, Labrador, Havanese, what?
  3. Where is this "dog" ...... on the street or at his home?
  4. If this "dog" is on his own property.........why am I there?
  5. .......

Frankly speaking......after 40 years in twi, maybe it's time to stay away from dogs.

 

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On 5/27/2019 at 3:57 PM, skyrider said:

 

When are splinter cults going to acknowledge that wierwille had scores of false prophecies?  /sarc

 

Years ago when VPW's indiscretions were starting to come out in the open, I remember hearing phrases like "I didn't like his flesh, but he sure could teach some hot Word". I guess it's the same with failed prophecies. A lot of these people admit VPW had weaknesses but they seem to justify their admiration of him by his ability to teach the "Word".

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A statement I posted yesterday explaining action I took as a moderator inadvertently made it seem that only one person was the target. The target of the moderating action was an exchange, not a single poster. 

We once again urge ALL posters to stay on topic.

 

Thank you.

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