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skyrider

Vern Edwards: The Decision Is Yours

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6 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Interesting observation…back in my day within the ministry’s caste system - I always thought of TWI-ordained clergy as the spiritual mainstays and heavyweights of the ministry – I was never ordained myself, btw…now it’s kind of appalling and dismal to hear you talk of TWI-clergy at HQ as nothing more than a slave-labor force…I mean, it makes sense what you said. I also imagine there is probably a lot of pressure to lead by example the rest of the workforce (non-clergy) at HQ.

......snip

 

T-Bone..........I guess more clarification is needed from my post.

In my opinion......there were TOO MANY reverends at headquarters involved in the activities and fanfare of the "Capital City."  Why did wierwille (and other twi-presidents) assign all these "spiritual mainstays or heavyweights" at hq rather than send them forth on the field?  Wasn't the central theme of corps training to "GO FORTH IN AREAS OF CONCERN, INTEREST AND NEED?"

How great is the need on the field for leadership who walk the walk?  Not just out there barking orders, but DOING the work......setting the example.  Clergy should have been taking their assignments from I Timothy 3........not from twi's caste-system hierarchy like the Pharisees.  Not figureheads.  Not snobbish elitists.  But those who give themselves to the ministering of others.  Burden-bearers.  Shepherds who fight off the wolves.  

The slave-labor was NOT from the clergy.  The majority of slave-labor came from "the coal mines" and "farm work" on the field...... not headquarters.  I'm sure staffers would dispute that point vigorously......but for committed followers on the field, who worked an 8 hour a day job and THEN, went out witnessing or attended twig coordinator meetings on Monday night, twig fellowships on Tuesday and Friday and classes on many weekends.....it was a lot of work.

Many clergy at headquarters were managers or supervisors over others.  Lots of them had desk jobs.  Others oversaw departments.  Head of security was clergy.  Was his corps training necessary to carry a  9mm.......or was his corps training and ordination needed to give the aura of spiritual perception?

 

 

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Why is this all a surprise? We live in a caste system in the U.S., despite what you think. All groups that are formed within society just emulate society and its stratified structure. From the KKK to the corporate office, from the coal miners in the Carolinas to people playing a game on a reality show like Survivor. Every group just copies a smaller version of what they already know. All current religions do the same thing. From nonprofit organizations to Google and Apple, they all do the same thing. If I put 30 people in a room and lock it and have them come out with a system on how they would run a company or country, they all end up copying what we already have. (I was a professor on this subject and I did this exercise often.) Weber and Marx were all too right. 

So what is so illuminating here? Is it the fact that you expected it to be different? Do you not approve of their methods? Is I that they should have rose above such things as they were spiritually better than that lol? Yes, TWI is exactly like our wretched society; we have the bourgeoisie and we have the proletariat.

Although I suppose I will concede that perhaps this forum allows for the proletariat (you and I) to gain a class consciousness after years or decades of having both society and TWI instilling a false conciousness that vast majority of people eat up and live by. 

I think in the end it is the fact that TWI promises to help us rise from the muck and mire of our status in society and give us the spiritual rewards (false conciousness) we need to rise above it. We can see we are not reaping the rewards others are in society (proletariat) without the word helping us rise above it. Promises to lift us out of our status in society and with god are often the underlying message in teachings. But these promises are coming from people who recreated a stratified system of power where they are in charge within their little bubble (TWI). Their promises are as empty as the American Dream. And let's face it, TWIs teachings and mission are just like the American Dream, you have to be mentally asleep to believe it. 

Edited by Beguiled
Me so stoopid

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Beguiled: Just to clarify ... coal miners are mostly in Kentucky and West Virginia.  There are no coal miners in the Carolinas.

Edited by DogLover
The comment was entered above the statement made.

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8 hours ago, Twinky said:

I don't think it was to do with any particular calling - like being really good at pastoral care! - more with biddability and willingness to toe the party line.  Think of "Rev" as being a synonym for "manager" or "officer in charge" rather than a recognition of their spirituality.

 

6 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

T-Bone..........I guess more clarification is needed from my post.

In my opinion......there were TOO MANY reverends at headquarters involved in the activities and fanfare of the "Capital City."  Why did wierwille (and other twi-presidents) assign all these "spiritual mainstays or heavyweights" at hq rather than send them forth on the field?  Wasn't the central theme of corps training to "GO FORTH IN AREAS OF CONCERN, INTEREST AND NEED?"

How great is the need on the field for leadership who walk the walk?  Not just out there barking orders, but DOING the work......setting the example.  Clergy should have been taking their assignments from I Timothy 3........not from twi's caste-system hierarchy like the Pharisees.  Not figureheads.  Not snobbish elitists.  But those who give themselves to the ministering of others.  Burden-bearers.  Shepherds who fight off the wolves.  

The slave-labor was NOT from the clergy.  The majority of slave-labor came from "the coal mines" and "farm work" on the field...... not headquarters.  I'm sure staffers would dispute that point vigorously......but for committed followers on the field, who worked an 8 hour a day job and THEN, went out witnessing or attended twig coordinator meetings on Monday night, twig fellowships on Tuesday and Friday and classes on many weekends.....it was a lot of work.

Many clergy at headquarters were managers or supervisors over others.  Lots of them had desk jobs.  Others oversaw departments.  Head of security was clergy.  Was his corps training necessary to carry a  9mm.......or was his corps training and ordination needed to give the aura of spiritual perception?

 

 

Thanks Twinky and Skyrider !

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19 hours ago, DogLover said:

Beguiled: Just to clarify ... coal miners are mostly in Kentucky and West Virginia.  There are no coal miners in the Carolinas.

Mostly. But there were plenty until 70 years ago. Which helps take this conversation to where it should go if anyone cared to take it there. The proliferation of products and commodities to use up resources as the means of production lay way waste to environmental components. If you own the land, materials, and people you will rise up above those doing hard, daily work while eliminating the environment of its natural resources. TWI is no different. Those in charge do little and have much.

Edited by Beguiled
:)

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On 7/21/2020 at 2:14 PM, skyrider said:

 

Sticking with VPW's legacy is nothing more that riding his coattails.....i.e. the gravy train.  Thru decades of exploitation, twi has amassed some $68 Million and guards their investments, and its accruements, with beady-eyes.  Think Mr. Scrooge and the Christmas Carol.  Decades and decades of staffers were paid "according to their need"......and since they lived on grounds in floppy trailers or founders hall and ate in twi's cafeteria, they needed very little.  Corps and staff bought into the martyrdom complex of twi's subtle power of spiritual abuse. 

 

 

How did twi amass some $68 Million?

Well, back in its heyday 1977-1982......

  1. Wierwille established precedent that all staffers were paid "according to their need"....
  2. Back in the late 70s........the whole subculture of twi was a carefree, youth commune
  3. Living on-grounds and eating 3 meals-a-day at twi's cafeteria.......and many staffers didn't have a car
  4. Haircuts at twi, plurality palace (like Goodwill), Sewing Dept and dental care at Rome City Campus
  5. Example:  Staff Bi-Monthly paycheck was $275.......or $6,600 yearly income
  6. Interim Corps at hq were paid $75 a month......or $900 for their interim year
  7. Extra hours of work required......yet, no overtime pay.  Rock or Ages prep began in May.
  8. Attendance at Sunday service required.  Duties assigned.....ushering, bookstore, refreshments, burgers.
  9. Not only ABS weekly....but those attending STS spent money at bookstore and bought burgers to go.
  10. Staffers, too......paid for those hamburgers or popcorn.  Cha..ching, cha..ching.
  11. No supplementing one's income on the side.  No mechanical work.  No carpentry.  No selling eggs.
  12. On the field.........often, pfal classes were run in someone's home.  No room rental fee.
  13. On the field.........refreshments, paper goods, extras, gas money were expenses paid by those "moving the word."
  14. The Way International set its doctrine that TEACHING THE WORD OF GOD was its one and only duty 
  15. Thus, by the subtle power of spiritual abuse...........twi has amassed some $68 Million in 2020.

And, now.........$65,000  goes to pay Craig Martindale's pension each year.

Does Rosalie.......get $65,000 per year also?  How can this possibly be right?

Wierwille stole the foundational class..........AND..........TWI steals your giving and abundant sharing.

 

:nono5:

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2 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

How did twi amass some $68 Million?

Well, back in its heyday 1977-1982......

  1. Wierwille established precedent that all staffers were paid "according to their need"....
  2. Back in the late 70s........the whole subculture of twi was a carefree, youth commune
  3. Living on-grounds and eating 3 meals-a-day at twi's cafeteria.......and many staffers didn't have a car
  4. Haircuts at twi, plurality palace (like Goodwill), Sewing Dept and dental care at Rome City Campus
  5. Example:  Staff Bi-Monthly paycheck was $275.......or $6,600 yearly income
  6. Interim Corps at hq were paid $75 a month......or $900 for their interim year

.......snip

 

That interim year at hq.......I shared a 12' X 14" bedroom with 5 other guys in Trailer 6.  One bathroom.  We had to walk over to the EOB to shower.  Six girls were on the other side of Trailer 6.  One bathroom.  Same deal.  No kitchenette.  No refrigerator.  We ate all our meals in twi's cafeteria.

Generally, with weekend projects and Sunday service duties......I would venture to say that we worked 55-hours per week (easily)  So, in working some 220 hours each month and getting paid $75 (plus room and cafeteria meals)......my wages was like 35 cents an hour.

Twi sits on a pile of money...........and wonders why their corps-servitude promos are rejected?   

:anim-smile:

 

 

 

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Here at GSC.......posters come forward to give us updates. 

From what Ghosted recently posted......the corps in-residence program has been abysmal.  It had two (2) people in 2011.  TWO PEOPLE.  :biglaugh:  .....and yet, the cult keeps doing the same things over and over and expecting different  results?  Insanity on display.  No wonder.......six years later, in 2017.......finally another exodus en masse.  

Imagine the corps training program with two people.   Roll call?  Johnnie......here.  Suzie.......here.  Today, you are going to learn about jet-style packing.  No, you'll never be out there jetting across the country......but back in 1978 they taught jet-style packing, so that's why we teach it today.  Tomorrow......Knowles Breathing.  :biglaugh:

 

The End of the RFR Era

 

On 6/20/2020 at 5:22 PM, Ghosted said:

 

Well, John Rxpp was just posted to the board along with Vern and Bill.  These guys just watched Rosalie publicly humiliate JyDL for 'failing' after 2 years to turn around an organization that has been a slow trainwreck for 17 years under the leadership of...Rosalie.  As an example, when I was a boy wonder in the mid 00's, InRez enrollment averaged 3-5, and in 2011 I think there were 2.  There's also plenty of top-threads detailing financial troubles, etc..this one's pretty funny: 

 

 

 

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Knowles method of breathing?  They did have a time of "teaching" us to breathe - something like, inhale for 7 seconds, hold breath for 5 seconds, exhale for 10 sec, or something similar (timings might well be wrong).  I note from a look at a document on Knowles breathing (put out by Liberating Ministries for Christ, whoever that/they are) and that slow inhale, hold, slower exhale is actually the 6th of 6 exercises, and only to be done after other muscles in the chest have been strengthened by other exercises.

 

Anyway, here's another effort at plagiarism.  Note the names of the "authors."  (You can also get this book as a free Google dox download).  It appears to have been sold in TWI's bookstore at one time.  Probably a "required reading" book that they could scam more money from.

https://www.amazon.ae/Knowles-Method-Breath-Training/dp/1481209965

It seems also to be promoted by various splinter groups - Eternally Blessed, for one.  That guy had some dealings with the cafe a while back but doesn't post here any more, as far as I'm aware.

 

But the original appears to be a book called "New Life through Breathing" and several people have republished it, with their own forewords so presumably it's something else that's out of copyright that that thief VPW stole/attributed to his own workmanship.

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30450584346&searchurl=an%3Dwilliam%2Bknowles%26sortby%3D20%26tn%3Dnew%2Blife%2Bbreathing&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title1

 

Here's a free document if anybody's interested:

https://lmci.org/BreathingForLife-PDF.pdf

Edited by Twinky

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On 7/22/2020 at 1:22 PM, waysider said:

I was under the impression she had been an English teacher at one time.

Heck no...she was a high school graduate who never attended college. Worked at the Way of CA office at about 19 I think, and worked her way to Ohio to be on staff. She was only a secretary, and from those I know who worked with her...not even a good one.

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31 minutes ago, Rejoice said:

Heck no...she was a high school graduate who never attended college. Worked at the Way of CA office at about 19 I think, and worked her way to Ohio to be on staff. She was only a secretary, and from those I know who worked with her...not even a good one.

Thanks, I appreciate the correction.

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I found this about Rosie.  Can't speak for its accuracy.

https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/1589401

Relevant bit reads: 

Rivenbark is a graduate of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte and received a master's degree in English from Appalachian State University ref|sidney1. Prior to her work at The Way International, she worked in the field of education and taught at the elementary, high school, and college levelsref|sidney1.

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12 hours ago, Twinky said:

Knowles method of breathing?  They did have a time of "teaching" us to breathe - something like, inhale for 7 seconds, hold breath for 5 seconds, exhale for 10 sec, or something similar (timings might well be wrong).  

 

 

Reminds me of the Lamaze technique during child delivery!  LOL

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2 hours ago, Twinky said:

I found this about Rosie.  Can't speak for its accuracy.

Rivenbark is a graduate of the University of North Carolina at Charlotte and received a master's degree in English from Appalachian State University ref|sidney1. Prior to her work at The Way International, she worked in the field of education and taught at the elementary, high school, and college levelsref|sidney1.

I think its accurate. It's citing one of the newspaper articles in the archives here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030306024625/http://www.greasespotcafe.com/waydale/lawsuit/sidney-05-26-00.htm

the part you pointed out is in the second to last paragraph

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There's a much larger group than two for 2020.  The graduating class grew to five times the size of 2012!  Looks like you exercise with a buddy now. Happened to check out twi website and their congrats article. Looks like both B0b St8nl3y kids graduated 49th corpse this year.

Edited by penguin2
Typo

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55 minutes ago, penguin2 said:

There's a much larger group than two for 2020.  The graduating class grew to five times the size of 2012!  Looks like you exercise with a buddy now. Happened to check out twi website and their congrats article. Looks like

both B0b St8nl3y kids

graduated 49th corpse this year.

that's just so sad on two counts:

that Bob S's kids are in TWI

and they're up to the 49th way corps - the institution of social controls lives on - it’s like ...the thing that couldn’t die

image.jpeg

Edited by T-Bone
Revision

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On 7/30/2020 at 7:27 AM, skyrider said:

 

How did twi amass some $68 Million?

Well, back in its heyday 1977-1982......

  1. Wierwille established precedent that all staffers were paid "according to their need"....
  2. Back in the late 70s........the whole subculture of twi was a carefree, youth commune
  3. Living on-grounds and eating 3 meals-a-day at twi's cafeteria.......and many staffers didn't have a car
  4. Haircuts at twi, plurality palace (like Goodwill), Sewing Dept and dental care at Rome City Campus
  5. Example:  Staff Bi-Monthly paycheck was $275.......or $6,600 yearly income
  6. Interim Corps at hq were paid $75 a month......or $900 for their interim year
  7. Extra hours of work required......yet, no overtime pay.  Rock or Ages prep began in May.
  8. Attendance at Sunday service required.  Duties assigned.....ushering, bookstore, refreshments, burgers.
  9. Not only ABS weekly....but those attending STS spent money at bookstore and bought burgers to go.
  10. Staffers, too......paid for those hamburgers or popcorn.  Cha..ching, cha..ching.
  11. No supplementing one's income on the side.  No mechanical work.  No carpentry.  No selling eggs.
  12. On the field.........often, pfal classes were run in someone's home.  No room rental fee.
  13. On the field.........refreshments, paper goods, extras, gas money were expenses paid by those "moving the word."
  14. The Way International set its doctrine that TEACHING THE WORD OF GOD was its one and only duty 
  15. Thus, by the subtle power of spiritual abuse...........twi has amassed some $68 Million in 2020.

And, now.........$65,000  goes to pay Craig Martindale's pension each year.

Does Rosalie.......get $65,000 per year also?  How can this possibly be right?

Wierwille stole the foundational class..........AND..........TWI steals your giving and abundant sharing.

 

:nono5:

Vern, start out with baby steps - free burgers and popcorn for all !

The decision is yours. 

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7 hours ago, Rejoice said:

Heck no...she was a high school graduate who never attended college. Worked at the Way of CA office at about 19 I think, and worked her way to Ohio to be on staff. She was only a secretary, and from those I know who worked with her...not even a good one.

IIRC, she's mentioned in Undertow as having worked at the NC limb also.

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"Example:  Staff Bi-Monthly paycheck was $275.......or $6,600 yearly income."

I would venture to say that some people got more back then.......but lots of people got less than that.

Then.......for several years, many of us were coerced to sign a waiver on social security payments to the government from our paychecks.  Therefore,  my Social Security Annual Statement shows ZEROES for those years 1981-1984 that I was on staff at headquarters.  Thanks a lot you weasels.....for manipulating and exploiting us for every hour and dime that you could squeeze out of our youthful commitment.  Karma, baby.  Choke on those millions that you've hoarded away.......and confused why people keep abandoning your sleazy ways.

Read it here.........

 

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Rocky said: IIRC, she's (Donna Martindale, then Lombardi) mentioned in Undertow as having worked at the NC limb also.

That was during her interim year in the 4th Corps, the same year Ralph D, Joel Burke, and Charlene Little, were sent to North Carolina so that Limb Coordinator Doug Emerson his wife, Connie (later Connie Panarello) and their daughter, Krissy (later Kristyne Panarello) could go to HQ for the one-year "Special Corps" program. David Turk was the Limb Coordinator in Doug Emerson's place. Ralph, Joel, and Charlene were Zone Coordinators, each of one-third of the long state of NC. Charlene later married David Turk.

Edited by DogLover
misspelling

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3 hours ago, DogLover said:

Rocky said: IIRC, she's (Donna Martindale, then Lombardi) mentioned in Undertow as having worked at the NC limb also.

That was during her interim year in the 4th Corps, the same year Ralph D, Joel Burke, and Charlene Little, were sent to North Carolina so that Limb Coordinator Doug Emerson his wife, Connie (later Connie Panarello) and their daughter, Krissy (later Kristyne Panarello) could go to HQ for the one-year "Special Corps" program. David Turk was the Limb Coordinator in Doug Emerson's place. Ralph, Joel, and Charlene were Zone Coordinators, each of one-third of the long state of NC. Charlene later married David Turk.

When I was WOW in mid-70s in D.C., David T. was the limb-coordinator / area coordinator (not sure of his responsibility back then - my memory is bad and Tonto wasn't sure either - also I think Maryland was often included in some functions - so maybe he was over more than I remember) - anyway - I didn't have a chance to interact with David much - but I remember two things about him: he always hit me as being mellow...a laid-back dude (which was a relief from feeling like we were being pushed all the time); and the other thing was something he said in a meeting - don't even remember what it was in reference to - but he said "it all comes out in the wash"....I liked that...wisdom from a mellow dude...have patience and things will work out.

Edited by T-Bone
revision

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5 hours ago, DogLover said:

Rocky said: IIRC, she's (Donna Martindale, then Lombardi) mentioned in Undertow as having worked at the NC limb also.

That was during her interim year in the 4th Corps, the same year Ralph D, Joel Burke, and Charlene Little, were sent to North Carolina so that Limb Coordinator Doug Emerson his wife, Connie (later Connie Panarello) and their daughter, Krissy (later Kristyne Panarello) could go to HQ for the one-year "Special Corps" program. David Turk was the Limb Coordinator in Doug Emerson's place. Ralph, Joel, and Charlene were Zone Coordinators, each of one-third of the long state of NC. Charlene later married David Turk.

 

1 hour ago, T-Bone said:

When I was WOW in mid-70s in D.C., David T. was the limb-coordinator / area coordinator (not sure of his responsibility back then - my memory is bad and Tonto wasn't sure either - also I think Maryland was often included in some functions - so maybe he was over more than I remember) - anyway - I didn't have a chance to interact with David much - but I remember two things about him: he always hit me as being mellow...a laid-back dude (which was a relief from feeling like we were being pushed all the time); and the other thing was something he said in a meeting - don't even remember what it was in reference to - but he said "it all comes out in the wash"....I liked that...wisdom from a mellow dude...have patience and things will work out.

 

Reading these names from years gone by.....Joel Burke, Doug Emerson, Connie Panarello, David Turk and others.....brings to mind HOW MANY "TOP-TIER" LEADERS HAVE EXITED TWI THRU THE YEARS.  The years go swiftly by.

I went to my 1985 Clergy List to see if David Turk was still on the active clergy roster in 1985......and he was.  Amazing again, to go back into my files and see the names of these 340 clergy who were once such an active part of region, state and branch activity.  Of course, that year (1985) was the year wierwille died.......and The Way International was trying desperately to restore unity and commitment under martindale's leadership.  That clergy listing was sent out in November 1985........and four months later, Geer read his poop paper on corps night and all hell broke loose.

I know, I know.......35 years ago is a long time.

Looking at all these names of clergy from years ago......it looks like about 10 of those are still with twi.  So, it does make me wonder that when 2nd generation (or 3rd generation) wayfers come here to GSC........how many of them ever even heard of some of these men and women?  Much less ask themselves the thought-provoking questions like....1) If twi was so good, then why did all these clergy abandon this ministry?  2) So shortly after wierwille's death.....why did it collapse so quickly?  3) If the principles of integrity and commitment were solid, then it should have stood for decades like a rock, no?  4) Why didn't wierwille address all these schisms that were developing in twi before his death?  5) Is Vern Edwards just the latest next-man-up?  6) With all of this history of upheaval, deception and turmoil......what else are they hiding?

You have every right to ask questions !!

You have every right to inspect the fruit of their actions !!

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

 

Reading these names from years gone by.....Joel Burke, Doug Emerson, Connie Panarello, David Turk and others.....brings to mind HOW MANY "TOP-TIER" LEADERS HAVE EXITED TWI THRU THE YEARS.  The years go swiftly by.

I went to my 1985 Clergy List to see if David Turk was still on the active clergy roster in 1985......and he was.  Amazing again, to go back into my files and see the names of these 340 clergy who were once such an active part of region, state and branch activity.  Of course, that year (1985) was the year wierwille died.......and The Way International was trying desperately to restore unity and commitment under martindale's leadership.  That clergy listing was sent out in November 1985........and four months later, Geer read his poop paper on corps night and all hell broke loose.

I know, I know.......35 years ago is a long time.

Looking at all these names of clergy from years ago......it looks like about 10 of those are still with twi.  So, it does make me wonder that when 2nd generation (or 3rd generation) wayfers come here to GSC........how many of them ever even heard of some of these men and women?  Much less ask themselves the thought-provoking questions like....1) If twi was so good, then why did all these clergy abandon this ministry?  2) So shortly after wierwille's death.....why did it collapse so quickly?  3) If the principles of integrity and commitment were solid, then it should have stood for decades like a rock, no?  4) Why didn't wierwille address all these schisms that were developing in twi before his death?  5) Is Vern Edwards just the latest next-man-up?  6) With all of this history of upheaval, deception and turmoil......what else are they hiding?

You have every right to ask questions !!

You have every right to inspect the fruit of their actions !!

 

And yet, in some ways, it seems like just the blink of an eye.

Great questions there Brother Skyrider.

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5 hours ago, skyrider said:

 

 

Reading these names from years gone by.....Joel Burke, Doug Emerson, Connie Panarello, David Turk and others.....brings to mind HOW MANY "TOP-TIER" LEADERS HAVE EXITED TWI THRU THE YEARS.  The years go swiftly by.

I went to my 1985 Clergy List to see if David Turk was still on the active clergy roster in 1985......and he was.  Amazing again, to go back into my files and see the names of these 340 clergy who were once such an active part of region, state and branch activity.  Of course, that year (1985) was the year wierwille died.......and The Way International was trying desperately to restore unity and commitment under martindale's leadership.  That clergy listing was sent out in November 1985........and four months later, Geer read his poop paper on corps night and all hell broke loose.

I know, I know.......35 years ago is a long time.

Looking at all these names of clergy from years ago......it looks like about 10 of those are still with twi.  So, it does make me wonder that when 2nd generation (or 3rd generation) wayfers come here to GSC........how many of them ever even heard of some of these men and women?  Much less ask themselves the thought-provoking questions like....1) If twi was so good, then why did all these clergy abandon this ministry?  2) So shortly after wierwille's death.....why did it collapse so quickly?  3) If the principles of integrity and commitment were solid, then it should have stood for decades like a rock, no?  4) Why didn't wierwille address all these schisms that were developing in twi before his death?  5) Is Vern Edwards just the latest next-man-up?  6) With all of this history of upheaval, deception and turmoil......what else are they hiding?

You have every right to ask questions !!

You have every right to inspect the fruit of their actions !!

 

good questions, Skyrider – and it always makes me wonder about the clergy, corps, staff  and “old timers” that still stuck around after Geer’s paper was read – did any of them let ambitious desires cloud their judgement to make sense of the situation or make sensible decisions? In other words, was it more of a “hey, there’s a lot of gaps to fill, maybe now it’s my time to shine” rather than asking “what is so bad that a lot of clergy and corps are leaving?

And speaking of the 2nd and 3rd generation of way-believers…I sometimes wonder about those who have never visited Grease Spot. What does the “old guard” tell them about the massive exits? Or is it something that doesn’t come up that much? Maybe that’s been addressed on some other threads before - if so point me in the right direction.

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