I liked this video; it seemed balanced and thorough, even for being so short.
In the video's terminology, my hunch from the outside is that the Way Corps was a culty cult at various times and locations. I am SO glad I never joined it!
My non-Corps experience in pre-1986 meltdown TWI was that of an ethical cult member. I think Jesus and his 12 would be an ethical cult, when you factor in Jesus, the leader, being a servant of all.
I liked this video; it seemed balanced and thorough, even for being so short.
In the video's terminology, my hunch from the outside is that the Way Corps was a culty cult at various times and locations. I am SO glad I never joined it!
My non-Corps experience in pre-1986 meltdown TWI was that of an ethical cult member. I think Jesus and his 12 would be an ethical cult, when you factor in Jesus, the leader, being a servant of all.
Yeah, I believe you're correct about the Way Corpse... but MY experience is that it is reasonable to not limit it, but to label it in general as such.
I certainly can't take issue with how you framed your experience. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, especially about your experience.
From what any of us know about Jesus' story about his life on Earth during his ministry, it would be intriguing if anyone were to pose a different perspective and explain why/how they may have come to that opinion. Otherwise, I don't disagree with you on that point either.
I don't really see the jazz analogy. Jazz is more like a flock of starlings going through murmuration. Using music as an analogy, I would say his concept of "ethical cult" more closely resembles field calls and work songs.
Most cults, based on my limited experience, appear to have all these elements present at varying degrees, making it difficult to clearly differentiate one from the other.
Rather than look at this as being three types of cults, I prefer to think of it as multiple characteristics that might be found in a singular cult.
I don't really see the jazz analogy. Jazz is more like a flock of starlings going through murmuration. Using music as an analogy, I would say his concept of "ethical cult" more closely resembles field calls and work songs.
I can't say yea or nay on what you see or don't see. Is the guy in the video trying to describe cults in a way he thinks he might be able to get people to understand his message? Or is he trying to explain jazz in terms that might be new to his audience and therefore they may not be able to relate to?
However, the subject isn't jazz, it is cults, right?
You have a large portion of the population, actively pointed at and socially accepted to be less human. Their very essence is considered toxic by nature. The propaganda is so successful these subhumans actively participate in the self-flagellation. Familiar?
To cope, many have disengaged from society. The internet, modern technology, facilitate that. If that bulwark where to break, that subdued energy would be released.
Without the internet to guide their minds, what would they turn to? A marching band?
You have a large portion of the population, actively pointed at and socially accepted to be less human. Their very essence is considered toxic by nature. The propaganda is so successful these subhumans actively participate in the self-flagellation. Familiar?
I have no idea (in the context of either this thread or the Big Think video I shared) from what or where or how or why you inferred that "a large portion of the population is considered (in the discussion herein) to be considered "less than human." That's what I mean when I use the words cryptic and obtuse.
You seem to be addressing issues/points not introduced into evidence.
IF you have QUESTIONS about the subject, ask them, be specific. But making assumptions then asking "please elaborate" don't tell me what you either are talking about or assuming.
Further, the Big Think topic seems to me to be: we know cults exist and are bad, but can the badness be mitigated into something more benign. Further, we also know the importance to humans of BELONGING socially. Can groups which provide a sense of belonging yet do so without most of the adverse characteristics we have come to associate with cults?
We've been interacting on this forum for several years. I don't understand the sudden turn to negativity.
Can anyone expand on what an ethical cult actually is? Or what Wheal means by this phasing? Ethical cult seems oxymoronic to me.
I've watched the video several times, but it seems a mere superficial introduction to the concept, possibly a baited hook enticing one to BITE. His Flow Genome Project site seems to me to be part of the zeitgeist of search for meaning and culture collapse. Haven't read either of his books and I don't think "ethical cult" was ever mentioned on the Darkhorse podcast.
Wheal may be onto something. But I don't know yet. His two books have been successful and he seems to be selling plenty of training classes.
Further, the Big Think topic seems to me to be: we know cults exist and are bad, but can the badness be mitigated into something more benign. Further, we also know the importance to humans of BELONGING socially. Can groups which provide a sense of belonging yet do so without most of the adverse characteristics we have come to associate with cults?
We've been interacting on this forum for several years. I don't understand the sudden turn to negativity.
I guess I missed this before I posted.
Why do we feel a need to belong to anything, any group, at all? Maybe the answer is in the question. Can we look honestly at ourselves to find out?
It's difficult. That's why we seek the approval of others who can offer us a sense of validation.
Indeed, it is. Honest self examination is difficult. Why are we so insecure that we need validation? Who will perform the validation? The MOG? If we go outside of ourselves to validate ourselves, when does it end? When the guru says so? And who will validate the guru?
I don't know the answers, but I find the contemplation of these questions can teach us more than any self-proclaimed teacher.
I have no idea (in the context of either this thread or the Big Think video I shared) from what or where or how or why you inferred that "a large portion of the population is considered (in the discussion herein) to be considered "less than human." That's what I mean when I use the words cryptic and obtuse.
You seem to be addressing issues/points not introduced into evidence.
IF you have QUESTIONS about the subject, ask them, be specific. But making assumptions then asking "please elaborate" don't tell me what you either are talking about or assuming.
You have asked questions and provided zero of your own viewpoints. I assumed it was your journalism stuff.
I have mentioned major issues of the day. Part of the question is why these topics getted dodged so quickly, particularly by the older generations.
Biology. If we were not wired that way how would this species' children be raised? They are time and energy consuming. Groups are needed.
That's just the most practical way to see it imo.
Yes. Our species naturally seeks to help one another, to protect one another, to raise each other's children. Naturally, from the very beginning 100,000+ years ago. It takes a village...
But, today, this desire to be part of a separate group, in order to validate ourselves, to arrogantly separate ourselves with MOG-made distinctions, to M&A the very village that raised us, is this biological/natural?
But, today, this desire to be part of a separate group, in order to validate ourselves, to arrogantly separate ourselves with MOG-made distinctions, to M&A the very village that raised us, is this biological/natural?
Dopamine. A process is hijacked like in a casino. People usually do what feels good.
Dopamine. A process is hijacked like in a casino. People usually do what feels good.
Why do you think?
Yeah. Pleasure is probably at the root of much suffering. Joining a destructive group to fill a dopamine void, what irony!
i know I stayed with my NPD ex wife too long partly because of the dangling carrot of pleasure. She was my entree to TWI. I had to wake up to this fact myself, that my entire life was systematically destroyed partly because of my desire for what feels good.
So, why do we feel so unfulfilled that we need fulfillment from another? I'm only trying to be vigilantly aware of myself, my desires, shortcomings, so that I don't fall into these traps again. My life was destroyed by people claiming to have the answers that never sought. (Why can't evangelists just be happy? Why must they insist on converting another?!) I've discovered that the power and insight and depth of awareness is in contemplating the questions, not clinging to a answer.
Bolshevik, you've made some powerfully insightful, if sometimes confusing and cryptic, posts on narcissism in the past that I've found very helpful. Thank you.
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Nathan_Jr
I guess I missed this before I posted. Why do we feel a need to belong to anything, any group, at all? Maybe the answer is in the question. Can we look honestly at ourselves to find out?
waysider
It's difficult. That's why we seek the approval of others who can offer us a sense of validation.
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Mike
I liked this video; it seemed balanced and thorough, even for being so short.
In the video's terminology, my hunch from the outside is that the Way Corps was a culty cult at various times and locations. I am SO glad I never joined it!
My non-Corps experience in pre-1986 meltdown TWI was that of an ethical cult member. I think Jesus and his 12 would be an ethical cult, when you factor in Jesus, the leader, being a servant of all.
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Rocky
Yeah, I believe you're correct about the Way Corpse... but MY experience is that it is reasonable to not limit it, but to label it in general as such.
I certainly can't take issue with how you framed your experience. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, especially about your experience.
From what any of us know about Jesus' story about his life on Earth during his ministry, it would be intriguing if anyone were to pose a different perspective and explain why/how they may have come to that opinion. Otherwise, I don't disagree with you on that point either.
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waysider
I don't really see the jazz analogy. Jazz is more like a flock of starlings going through murmuration. Using music as an analogy, I would say his concept of "ethical cult" more closely resembles field calls and work songs.
Most cults, based on my limited experience, appear to have all these elements present at varying degrees, making it difficult to clearly differentiate one from the other.
Rather than look at this as being three types of cults, I prefer to think of it as multiple characteristics that might be found in a singular cult.
Edited by waysiderwording
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Rocky
I can't say yea or nay on what you see or don't see. Is the guy in the video trying to describe cults in a way he thinks he might be able to get people to understand his message? Or is he trying to explain jazz in terms that might be new to his audience and therefore they may not be able to relate to?
However, the subject isn't jazz, it is cults, right?
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waysider
I'm sure some find an existence that's more nuanced than that.
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Rocky
How sure are you?
What do you mean by "nuanced" in this context?
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Rocky
Man's search for meaning.
languish
verb (used without object)
I hope you're doing well, Bolshevik. It's not like you (usually) to sound so obtuse.
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waysider
So, either you find your purpose or you become weak and feeble and lose your vigor and vitality.
Are you sure there's nothing in between?
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Rocky
A person either lives with purpose or s/he doesn't. Are you sure you're not overthinking what languish means?
Of course, it can take time to determine what one finds purposeful for one's life.
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Bolshevik
I was talking about populations and generations of people. Culling out individuals will do little to improve society.
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Bolshevik
On top of that, the destruction of the economy, potential of aimless gangs, and the general danger to everyone.
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Bolshevik
So Rocky,
You have a large portion of the population, actively pointed at and socially accepted to be less human. Their very essence is considered toxic by nature. The propaganda is so successful these subhumans actively participate in the self-flagellation. Familiar?
To cope, many have disengaged from society. The internet, modern technology, facilitate that. If that bulwark where to break, that subdued energy would be released.
Without the internet to guide their minds, what would they turn to? A marching band?
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Rocky
Still cryptic/obtuse. Who is talking about culling out individuals or populations or generations of people?
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Rocky
I have no idea (in the context of either this thread or the Big Think video I shared) from what or where or how or why you inferred that "a large portion of the population is considered (in the discussion herein) to be considered "less than human." That's what I mean when I use the words cryptic and obtuse.
You seem to be addressing issues/points not introduced into evidence.
IF you have QUESTIONS about the subject, ask them, be specific. But making assumptions then asking "please elaborate" don't tell me what you either are talking about or assuming.
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Rocky
Further, the Big Think topic seems to me to be: we know cults exist and are bad, but can the badness be mitigated into something more benign. Further, we also know the importance to humans of BELONGING socially. Can groups which provide a sense of belonging yet do so without most of the adverse characteristics we have come to associate with cults?
We've been interacting on this forum for several years. I don't understand the sudden turn to negativity.
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Nathan_Jr
Can anyone expand on what an ethical cult actually is? Or what Wheal means by this phasing? Ethical cult seems oxymoronic to me.
I've watched the video several times, but it seems a mere superficial introduction to the concept, possibly a baited hook enticing one to BITE. His Flow Genome Project site seems to me to be part of the zeitgeist of search for meaning and culture collapse. Haven't read either of his books and I don't think "ethical cult" was ever mentioned on the Darkhorse podcast.
Wheal may be onto something. But I don't know yet. His two books have been successful and he seems to be selling plenty of training classes.
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Nathan_Jr
I guess I missed this before I posted.
Why do we feel a need to belong to anything, any group, at all? Maybe the answer is in the question. Can we look honestly at ourselves to find out?
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waysider
It's difficult. That's why we seek the approval of others who can offer us a sense of validation.
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Nathan_Jr
Indeed, it is. Honest self examination is difficult. Why are we so insecure that we need validation? Who will perform the validation? The MOG? If we go outside of ourselves to validate ourselves, when does it end? When the guru says so? And who will validate the guru?
I don't know the answers, but I find the contemplation of these questions can teach us more than any self-proclaimed teacher.
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Bolshevik
You have asked questions and provided zero of your own viewpoints. I assumed it was your journalism stuff.
I have mentioned major issues of the day. Part of the question is why these topics getted dodged so quickly, particularly by the older generations.
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Bolshevik
Biology. If we were not wired that way how would this species' children be raised? They are time and energy consuming. Groups are needed.
That's just the most practical way to see it imo.
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Nathan_Jr
Yes. Our species naturally seeks to help one another, to protect one another, to raise each other's children. Naturally, from the very beginning 100,000+ years ago. It takes a village...
But, today, this desire to be part of a separate group, in order to validate ourselves, to arrogantly separate ourselves with MOG-made distinctions, to M&A the very village that raised us, is this biological/natural?
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Bolshevik
Dopamine. A process is hijacked like in a casino. People usually do what feels good.
Why do you think?
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Nathan_Jr
Yeah. Pleasure is probably at the root of much suffering. Joining a destructive group to fill a dopamine void, what irony!
i know I stayed with my NPD ex wife too long partly because of the dangling carrot of pleasure. She was my entree to TWI. I had to wake up to this fact myself, that my entire life was systematically destroyed partly because of my desire for what feels good.
So, why do we feel so unfulfilled that we need fulfillment from another? I'm only trying to be vigilantly aware of myself, my desires, shortcomings, so that I don't fall into these traps again. My life was destroyed by people claiming to have the answers that never sought. (Why can't evangelists just be happy? Why must they insist on converting another?!) I've discovered that the power and insight and depth of awareness is in contemplating the questions, not clinging to a answer.
Bolshevik, you've made some powerfully insightful, if sometimes confusing and cryptic, posts on narcissism in the past that I've found very helpful. Thank you.
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