Well, except the children one has the sacred responsibility to raise.
Yes, indeed. We are on the same page. Teaching by LIVING righteousness and love and freedom. Yes, great point.
Some people only behave well when people are watching. They want to project an image of righteousness. Image over substance. I was pointing to victor's response to Loy in the AC Q&A about behavior behind closed doors - behavior unseen by those one is trying to lead.
Do the right thing, even when no one is watching. There's a more eloquent phrasing of this, but I can't remember the attribution.
Yes, indeed. We are on the same page. Teaching by LIVING righteousness and love and freedom. Yes, great point.
Some people only behave well when people are watching. They want to project an image of righteousness. Image over substance. I was pointing to victor's response to Loy in the AC Q&A about behavior behind closed doors - behavior unseen by those one is trying to lead.
Do the right thing, even when no one is watching. There's a more eloquent phrasing of this, but I can't remember the attribution.
Goodreads dot com sends me an email every day with updates on what my friends are reading or have read. This morning, I first became aware of the difference between PTSD and Complex PTSD because one friend had read and rated (five stars) What My Bones Know: A Memoir.
Both PTSD and C-PTSD result from the experience of something deeply traumatic and can cause flashbacks, nightmares, and insomnia. Both conditions can also make you feel intensely afraid and unsafe even though the danger has passed. However, despite these similarities, there are characteristics that differentiate C-PTSD from PTSD according to some experts.
The main difference between the two disorders is the frequency of the trauma. While PTSD is caused by a single traumatic event, C-PTSD is caused by long-lasting trauma that continues or repeats for months, even years (commonly referred to as "complex trauma").1
Unlike PTSD, which can develop regardless of what age you are when the trauma occurred, C-PTSD is typically the result ofchildhood trauma.
When it comes to Complex PTSD, the harmful effects of oppression and racism can add layers to complex trauma experienced by individuals. This is further compounded if the justice system is involved.2
The psychological and developmental impacts of complex trauma early in life are often more severe than a single traumatic experience—so different, in fact, that many experts believe that the PTSD diagnostic criteria don't adequately describe the wide-ranging, long-lasting consequences of C-PTSD.
The psychological and developmental impacts of complex trauma early in life are often more severe than a single traumatic experience—so different, in fact, that many experts believe that the PTSD diagnostic criteria don't adequately describe the wide-ranging, long-lasting consequences of C-PTSD
Both of Foo's parents abandoned her when she was a teenager, after years of physical and verbal abuse and neglect. She thought she'd moved on, but her new diagnosis illuminated the way her past continued to threaten her health, relationships, and career. She found limited resources to help her, so Foo set out to heal herself, and to map her experiences onto the scarce literature about C-PTSD.
In this deeply personal and thoroughly researched account, Foo interviews scientists and psychologists and tries a variety of innovative therapies. She returns to her hometown of San Jose, California, to investigate the effects of immigrant trauma on the community, and she uncovers family secrets in the country of her birth, Malaysia, to learn how trauma can be inherited through generations. Ultimately, she discovers that you don't move on from trauma--but you can learn to move with it.
-----
One reviewer wrote:
In What My Bones Know, accomplished journalist Stephanie Foo writes about receiving a diagnosis of complex posttraumatic stress disorder and the steps she took to heal herself. One of the elements of this book I enjoyed right from the start includes how Foo writes about her trauma with such realness and vulnerability. The physical and emotional abuse her parents put her through felt painful to read though also cathartic as a fellow survivor of child abuse. In addition to destigmatizing child abuse and PTSD, Foo shed lights on her estrangement from her father that occurred later in her life. I imagine this book will feel comforting for folks who have also experienced difficult family dynamics, as Foo does not hold back about her pain even as she persists in her path forward to healing.
-----
Obviously this brings up blatant parallels between the OP from TWI's website and perhaps from Bolshevik's life experience.
It is clear to me now, more than 35 years after I left twi and having raised a child who thankfully is a well-functioning adult, that twi's DOCTRINE is f**ked up.
A search on (OF) this website for "childhood trauma" returns more than 1,400 results. Correction: without the quotation marks, the search returned 1,423 results. WITH the quotes limiting the search to that phrase only, it returned 8 results.
I took one of those results (from the archive) and started a revisited thread in About TWI.
Along the lines of serving as a role model being a better way to look at parental authority, today's post from Daily Stoic is particularly salient. It also occurs to me that instructing (commanding/enabling) people who are not up to the charge to exercise authority over their children is, doctrinally speaking, a grave injustice to the children AND subtly evil and when one recognizes it, brazenly false doctrine.
In that, as Marcus writes in Book 1 ofMeditations, the gods gave him Antoninus as “a ruler and a father.”
The ancient world was a brutal, violent place. The entire history of emperors and kings was basically an endless parade of heirs getting rid of other potential heirs.
Despite this precedent, despite being given the unenviable job of preparing a boy to replace him, Antoninus broke the mold and facilitated one of the greatest mentor relationships in history. More than not assassinating his rival, Antoninus committed fully to shaping and guiding the young boy, Marcus Aurelius, towards a kind of greatness that stretches beyond the imagination. More than being a stepfather, he became the boy’s true father, loving and raising him like a son.
What exactly did Antoninus teach Marcus? In Marcus’s own words in Meditations, he learned the importance of:
Compassion
Hard work
Persistence
Altruism
Humility
Self-reliance
Cheerfulness
Constancy to friends.
Marcus said he also learned how to keep an open mind and listen to anyone who could contribute, how to take responsibility and blame, and how to put other people at ease. He learned how to yield the floor to experts and use their advice, how to respect tradition, how to keep a good schedule, and never get worked up. Antoninus taught Marcus how to be indifferent to superficial honors and to treat people as they deserved to be treated.
It’s quite a list, isn’t it? Better still that the lessons were, as we recently talked about, embodied in Antoninus’s actions. There is no better way to learn than from a role model. There is nothing luckier than getting to be in constant company with someone we would most like to be one day. And as any parent knows, there is no better gift than the opportunity to be for our children what Antoninus was for Marcus.
Goodreads dot com sends me an email every day with updates on what my friends are reading or have read. This morning, I first became aware of the difference between PTSD and Complex PTSD because one friend had read and rated (five stars) What My Bones Know: A Memoir.
Both PTSD and C-PTSD result from the experience of something deeply traumatic and can cause flashbacks, nightmares, and insomnia. Both conditions can also make you feel intensely afraid and unsafe even though the danger has passed. However, despite these similarities, there are characteristics that differentiate C-PTSD from PTSD according to some experts.
The main difference between the two disorders is the frequency of the trauma. While PTSD is caused by a single traumatic event, C-PTSD is caused by long-lasting trauma that continues or repeats for months, even years (commonly referred to as "complex trauma").1
Unlike PTSD, which can develop regardless of what age you are when the trauma occurred, C-PTSD is typically the result ofchildhood trauma.
When it comes to Complex PTSD, the harmful effects of oppression and racism can add layers to complex trauma experienced by individuals. This is further compounded if the justice system is involved.2
The psychological and developmental impacts of complex trauma early in life are often more severe than a single traumatic experience—so different, in fact, that many experts believe that the PTSD diagnostic criteria don't adequately describe the wide-ranging, long-lasting consequences of C-PTSD.
Thank you for this, Rocky. This issue is seldom understood and often is frequently stigmatized.
C-PTSD is very real. So much is still being learned about the insidious effects of sustained abuse and neglect. Narcissistic abuse can cause C-PTSD, not only in children, but in adults. The effects can manifest physically in the form of auto-immune disorders and brain damage, in addition to severe anxiety and depression. The destruction to the psyche, spirit and body is in incomprehensible to most.
Edited by Nathan_Jr These hands are slippery. Need gloves.
Both of Foo's parents abandoned her when she was a teenager, after years of physical and verbal abuse and neglect. She thought she'd moved on, but her new diagnosis illuminated the way her past continued to threaten her health, relationships, and career. She found limited resources to help her, so Foo set out to heal herself, and to map her experiences onto the scarce literature about C-PTSD.
In this deeply personal and thoroughly researched account, Foo interviews scientists and psychologists and tries a variety of innovative therapies. She returns to her hometown of San Jose, California, to investigate the effects of immigrant trauma on the community, and she uncovers family secrets in the country of her birth, Malaysia, to learn how trauma can be inherited through generations. Ultimately, she discovers that you don't move on from trauma--but you can learn to move with it.
-----
One reviewer wrote:
In What My Bones Know, accomplished journalist Stephanie Foo writes about receiving a diagnosis of complex posttraumatic stress disorder and the steps she took to heal herself. One of the elements of this book I enjoyed right from the start includes how Foo writes about her trauma with such realness and vulnerability. The physical and emotional abuse her parents put her through felt painful to read though also cathartic as a fellow survivor of child abuse. In addition to destigmatizing child abuse and PTSD, Foo shed lights on her estrangement from her father that occurred later in her life. I imagine this book will feel comforting for folks who have also experienced difficult family dynamics, as Foo does not hold back about her pain even as she persists in her path forward to healing.
-----
Obviously this brings up blatant parallels between the OP from TWI's website and perhaps from Bolshevik's life experience.
It is clear to me now, more than 35 years after I left twi and having raised a child who thankfully is a well-functioning adult, that twi's DOCTRINE is f**ked up.
You recommend good books. This one has been added to my list.
Along the lines of serving as a role model being a better way to look at parental authority, today's post from Daily Stoic is particularly salient. It also occurs to me that instructing (commanding/enabling) people who are not up to the charge to exercise authority over their children is, doctrinally speaking, a grave injustice to the children AND subtly evil and when one recognizes it, brazenly false doctrine.
In that, as Marcus writes in Book 1 ofMeditations, the gods gave him Antoninus as “a ruler and a father.”
The ancient world was a brutal, violent place. The entire history of emperors and kings was basically an endless parade of heirs getting rid of other potential heirs.
Despite this precedent, despite being given the unenviable job of preparing a boy to replace him, Antoninus broke the mold and facilitated one of the greatest mentor relationships in history. More than not assassinating his rival, Antoninus committed fully to shaping and guiding the young boy, Marcus Aurelius, towards a kind of greatness that stretches beyond the imagination. More than being a stepfather, he became the boy’s true father, loving and raising him like a son.
What exactly did Antoninus teach Marcus? In Marcus’s own words in Meditations, he learned the importance of:
Compassion
Hard work
Persistence
Altruism
Humility
Self-reliance
Cheerfulness
Constancy to friends.
Marcus said he also learned how to keep an open mind and listen to anyone who could contribute, how to take responsibility and blame, and how to put other people at ease. He learned how to yield the floor to experts and use their advice, how to respect tradition, how to keep a good schedule, and never get worked up. Antoninus taught Marcus how to be indifferent to superficial honors and to treat people as they deserved to be treated.
It’s quite a list, isn’t it? Better still that the lessons were, as we recently talked about, embodied in Antoninus’s actions. There is no better way to learn than from a role model. There is nothing luckier than getting to be in constant company with someone we would most like to be one day. And as any parent knows, there is no better gift than the opportunity to be for our children what Antoninus was for Marcus.
Love Marcus Aurelius. Thanks for this. Role models are so important.
Along the lines of serving as a role model being a better way to look at parental authority,. . .
It’s quite a list, isn’t it? Better still that the lessons were, as we recently talked about, embodied in Antoninus’s actions. There is no better way to learn than from a role model. . . .
In TWI, it is the child's responsibility to be "The Example". Children are a witness. A child off The Word is a shame to the parents, The Twig Fellowship, and The Ministry. It was said a hundred times TWI children are better behaved than children of the world.
It shouldn't have to be explained to you. You don't have unlearning to do. You are luckier than all humans. You renew your mind. You can't go beyond what you are taught. I'm not yelling at you I'm teaching you.
It shouldn't have to be explained to you. You don't have unlearning to do. You are luckier than all humans. You renew your mind. You can't go beyond what you are taught. I'm not yelling at you I'm teaching you.
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Nathan_Jr
Yes, indeed. We are on the same page. Teaching by LIVING righteousness and love and freedom. Yes, great point.
Some people only behave well when people are watching. They want to project an image of righteousness. Image over substance. I was pointing to victor's response to Loy in the AC Q&A about behavior behind closed doors - behavior unseen by those one is trying to lead.
Do the right thing, even when no one is watching. There's a more eloquent phrasing of this, but I can't remember the attribution.
Edited by Nathan_JrLink to comment
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Rocky
I figured that had been your point.
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Rocky
Goodreads dot com sends me an email every day with updates on what my friends are reading or have read. This morning, I first became aware of the difference between PTSD and Complex PTSD because one friend had read and rated (five stars) What My Bones Know: A Memoir.
PTSD vs. Complex PTSD
Both PTSD and C-PTSD result from the experience of something deeply traumatic and can cause flashbacks, nightmares, and insomnia. Both conditions can also make you feel intensely afraid and unsafe even though the danger has passed. However, despite these similarities, there are characteristics that differentiate C-PTSD from PTSD according to some experts.
The main difference between the two disorders is the frequency of the trauma. While PTSD is caused by a single traumatic event, C-PTSD is caused by long-lasting trauma that continues or repeats for months, even years (commonly referred to as "complex trauma").1
Unlike PTSD, which can develop regardless of what age you are when the trauma occurred, C-PTSD is typically the result of childhood trauma.
When it comes to Complex PTSD, the harmful effects of oppression and racism can add layers to complex trauma experienced by individuals. This is further compounded if the justice system is involved.2
The psychological and developmental impacts of complex trauma early in life are often more severe than a single traumatic experience—so different, in fact, that many experts believe that the PTSD diagnostic criteria don't adequately describe the wide-ranging, long-lasting consequences of C-PTSD.
Edited by RockyLink to comment
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Rocky
Both of Foo's parents abandoned her when she was a teenager, after years of physical and verbal abuse and neglect. She thought she'd moved on, but her new diagnosis illuminated the way her past continued to threaten her health, relationships, and career. She found limited resources to help her, so Foo set out to heal herself, and to map her experiences onto the scarce literature about C-PTSD.
In this deeply personal and thoroughly researched account, Foo interviews scientists and psychologists and tries a variety of innovative therapies. She returns to her hometown of San Jose, California, to investigate the effects of immigrant trauma on the community, and she uncovers family secrets in the country of her birth, Malaysia, to learn how trauma can be inherited through generations. Ultimately, she discovers that you don't move on from trauma--but you can learn to move with it.
-----
One reviewer wrote:
In What My Bones Know, accomplished journalist Stephanie Foo writes about receiving a diagnosis of complex posttraumatic stress disorder and the steps she took to heal herself. One of the elements of this book I enjoyed right from the start includes how Foo writes about her trauma with such realness and vulnerability. The physical and emotional abuse her parents put her through felt painful to read though also cathartic as a fellow survivor of child abuse. In addition to destigmatizing child abuse and PTSD, Foo shed lights on her estrangement from her father that occurred later in her life. I imagine this book will feel comforting for folks who have also experienced difficult family dynamics, as Foo does not hold back about her pain even as she persists in her path forward to healing.
-----
Obviously this brings up blatant parallels between the OP from TWI's website and perhaps from Bolshevik's life experience.
It is clear to me now, more than 35 years after I left twi and having raised a child who thankfully is a well-functioning adult, that twi's DOCTRINE is f**ked up.
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Rocky
A search on (OF) this website for "childhood trauma" returns more than 1,400 results. Correction: without the quotation marks, the search returned 1,423 results. WITH the quotes limiting the search to that phrase only, it returned 8 results.
Edited by RockyI took one of those results (from the archive) and started a revisited thread in About TWI.
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Rocky
Along the lines of serving as a role model being a better way to look at parental authority, today's post from Daily Stoic is particularly salient. It also occurs to me that instructing (commanding/enabling) people who are not up to the charge to exercise authority over their children is, doctrinally speaking, a grave injustice to the children AND subtly evil and when one recognizes it, brazenly false doctrine.
In that, as Marcus writes in Book 1 of Meditations, the gods gave him Antoninus as “a ruler and a father.”
The ancient world was a brutal, violent place. The entire history of emperors and kings was basically an endless parade of heirs getting rid of other potential heirs.
Despite this precedent, despite being given the unenviable job of preparing a boy to replace him, Antoninus broke the mold and facilitated one of the greatest mentor relationships in history. More than not assassinating his rival, Antoninus committed fully to shaping and guiding the young boy, Marcus Aurelius, towards a kind of greatness that stretches beyond the imagination. More than being a stepfather, he became the boy’s true father, loving and raising him like a son.
What exactly did Antoninus teach Marcus? In Marcus’s own words in Meditations, he learned the importance of:
Marcus said he also learned how to keep an open mind and listen to anyone who could contribute, how to take responsibility and blame, and how to put other people at ease. He learned how to yield the floor to experts and use their advice, how to respect tradition, how to keep a good schedule, and never get worked up. Antoninus taught Marcus how to be indifferent to superficial honors and to treat people as they deserved to be treated.
It’s quite a list, isn’t it? Better still that the lessons were, as we recently talked about, embodied in Antoninus’s actions. There is no better way to learn than from a role model. There is nothing luckier than getting to be in constant company with someone we would most like to be one day. And as any parent knows, there is no better gift than the opportunity to be for our children what Antoninus was for Marcus.
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Nathan_Jr
Thank you for this, Rocky. This issue is seldom understood and often is frequently stigmatized.
Edited by Nathan_JrC-PTSD is very real. So much is still being learned about the insidious effects of sustained abuse and neglect. Narcissistic abuse can cause C-PTSD, not only in children, but in adults. The effects can manifest physically in the form of auto-immune disorders and brain damage, in addition to severe anxiety and depression. The destruction to the psyche, spirit and body is in incomprehensible to most.
These hands are slippery. Need gloves.
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Nathan_Jr
You recommend good books. This one has been added to my list.
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Nathan_Jr
Love Marcus Aurelius. Thanks for this. Role models are so important.
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Bolshevik
In TWI, it is the child's responsibility to be "The Example". Children are a witness. A child off The Word is a shame to the parents, The Twig Fellowship, and The Ministry. It was said a hundred times TWI children are better behaved than children of the world.
It shouldn't have to be explained to you. You don't have unlearning to do. You are luckier than all humans. You renew your mind. You can't go beyond what you are taught. I'm not yelling at you I'm teaching you.
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Rocky
That's incredibly sad, and probably much worse.
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Bolshevik
I'm sure it's sad and whatnot.
I'd like to frame the dynamic.
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