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Was victor paul wierwille talented? If so, in what was he talented?


WordWolf
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There will always be a few people who insist, dogmatically, that vpw was some person of incredible abilities.

Let's run down the actual possibilities, however.

 

Once, someone claimed vpw was an exceptional athlete. that he was "Born with an overabundance of brains and brawn," that he was "overgifted."  There have been claims he played professional basketball.   

All of that was hot air.  vpw was on his high school varsity basketball team.  vpw never lettered in basketball in college, and never played as a player for any professional team after college.  All the references to him doing so were deliberately-phrased comments, made vague so he could INSINUATE he did those things.  He "played basketball all through college" but never mentioned any team, and never showed a team photo among all his photos- although he showed one from high school.  He mentioned being "involved with" the Sheboygan Redskins, but never said he was a team member, nor did the list of all their players in history include his name.   So, he made comments that TRICKED people into thinking he'd said he'd done both, and that rather deliberately.

A poll done at the GSC showed that 40% of the posters had EXCEEDED his athletic accomplishments, and another 20% had equaled them but not exceeded them.   Further, vpw was never seen actually joining in on athletics at twi.    So, vpw was a wannabe athlete whose athletic career was over when he began college.   That's not noteworthy in any way. 

 

How about ACADEMICALLY?  Even vpw was slow to try to claim he'd excelled academically.  He claimed he'd taken ALL of the correspondence courses Moody offered- but Moody was contacted, and there was no record of him.  If he'd completed even a single course with them, there would have been a record of him.      vpw never displayed Honor Roll awards, Deans List mentions, or anything of that type.  He'd claimed that some teachers he'd had in forgettable schools were allegedly the best in the state or whatever, but never that he'd attended schools of great renown.   Oddly, he soft-pedaled his time at Princeton Theological Seminary- possibly so he could make it sound like he went to Princeton UNIVERSITY.  PTS is a respected theological school, but lacks the name recognition of the university that is its neighbor.   lcm used to do that as well, saying vpw had a Masters Degree from "Princeton"- which, again, INSINUATED that vpw got a Masters at Princeton UNIVERSITY.  I have trouble imagining lcm came up with that himself rather than copying vpw's own habits there.  

Finally, vpw never completed his doctorate in an accredited, respected school like PTS.  He completed it in a degree mill.   Then he insisted on being called "Doctor"- for having a "Doctorate"  from an unaccredited source.    For the record, I have 3 "Doctorates", all from unaccredited sources- one in Theology, one in Bible Truths, and one in Using Boldface Type to Make My Posts Easier to Read.   All 3 were granted to me here. So, I'm 3x the "doctor" that vpw was.    We also have posters here whose REAL- as in ACCREDITED- doctorates were harder to earn than vpw's degree mill doctorate.  

So, in short, vpw was a lightweight in academics as well.  NOTHING distinguished him, ACADEMICALLY.

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Was vpw an exceptionally pious man of God?  The current Pope, Pope Francis,  has often been said to be so, all based on his actions and his living.  (He used to go preach to the poor and homeless when he was a priest and bishop, for example, and he stands in lines like everyone else and does not expect special treatment.) 

So, how has vpw measured up?

When he was young, he was so contrary to actions of piety that the idea that he would become a preacher was met with derision.  It was scoffed at by his local community- who were well aware he'd earned a reputation as a bully and a showoff.  It was scoffed at by his own father- who said he never put in work on the farm, so he would be worse at being a pastor.   The only positive claim came from his brother Harry, who said vpw would run off from his chores for hours and vanish into the woods.  Supposedly- for Harry never saw him-  vpw was preaching to the trees all that time, just like Billy Graham, even though nobody EVER said they saw vpw actually DO it.  Further, that was back when vpw was supposedly trying to decide whether to go into business, or music or the church.   As a pastor, he had a reputation for being somewhat severe on his congregation- by his own admission.  Moreover, his weekly sermons began more than a year before he actually believed the Bible was the Word of God, despite using it in his sermons.   He claimed that doing weekly sermons made it NECESSARY for him to go to the Bible every week.  I'm curious what it says of a pastor who has to be "made" to read the Bible weekly.  Does he not read it daily for enrichment?  For enjoyment?    As an act of devotion?    

For that matter, actual acts of devotion are conspicuously missing from vpw's accounts. He supposedly mouthed off at the church elders once (and the location of the meeting kept changing), but actual acts of devotion were missing. 

None of that even addressed vpw raping, drugging and/or molesting the women of his flock.

Finally, vpw had a long-term addiction to tobacco and to alchohol.  He was seen chain-smoking, and people knew what brand he smoked.  He was seen drinking at all hours, and people knew what alcoholic beverage he drank.  Further, he insisted mints be at the podium, so he could bite one in half in his mouth regularly- covering the smell of tobacco or of booze.   (Kool shorties and Drambuie, in case there was anyone who didn't know.)    Long-term abuse of alcohol and tobacco can injure the eye and the liver, and increase the risk of cancer- which bright lights do not.    vpw died of cancer of the liver and of the eye.  He claimed that the bright studio lights he used briefly, decades earlier, in filming pfal was the cause of the eye cancer- but stage lights do NOT cause cancer.  Wouldn't there be a long list of stage actors who've spent a year or years looking into studio lights, then all getting eye cancer and dying?    

OBVIOUSLY, the pfal studio lights claim was a great big lie- one that covered his own foolishness and pointed to something "virtuous" as the cause (filming pfal.)  vpw insisted he gave his eye for preaching, and tried to use that as a spur for others to obey him or outdo him.

 

As a pious man of God, vpw fell far short of the minimum expected of a minister.

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Was vpw a gifted Bible researcher?

vpw showed considerable experience taking the work of others and building teachings and classes on them.  vpw had a private library composed of the works of other Christians-  works he would plagiarize when he taught.

Virtually all of pfal- all 3 levels-  were taken from the works of others- Bullinger, Stiles, Kenyon, etc.   vpw often relied on the meaning of a word as it appeared in the King James Version, even if that meaning wasn't in the critical texts that were used.   When someone made a mistake, vpw often copied the mistake, as if he lacked the understanding that they HAD mistakes.   

When it came to actual research,  vpw assigned someone else to do it- Walter, the research dept, etc.   His skill at actually researching the Bible was rather shallow, even compared to the average Advanced Class grad.   "His" books were the work of the research department, to which he attached his name.  Except for the Studies in Abundant Living, which were teachings that others edited and made into proper books.  

 

In short, vpw was not a noteworthy Bible researcher, even in twi. 

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When it comes to the delivery of the sermons, this was something different.  vpw used the works of others to write the sermons, but was able to deliver the content with all the skill of the carnival barker.   If you handed him a completed sermon, he could deliver it looking full of conviction.   He studied Homiletics- or how to deliver a sermon. 

 

HOWEVER,

his skill at ONLY delivering the work of others says a lot about vpw, especially since he rarely gave due credit. 

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Seems to me he was very talented.

At what?  At being a conman.  So talented, in fact, that we are still talking about him and asking questions, nearly 50 years after his death.

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7 hours ago, Twinky said:

Seems to me he was very talented.

At what?  At being a conman.  So talented, in fact, that we are still talking about him and asking questions, nearly 50 years after his death.

Sure, but we're using him as a case study to dissect his anti-social behavior/conduct/exploits/results. :spy:

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13 hours ago, WordWolf said:

He completed it in a degree mill.

That's generous. More accurately, his check cleared. 
 

 

13 hours ago, WordWolf said:

Then he insisted on being called "Doctor"- for having a "Doctorate"  from an unaccredited source.  

This is always embarrassing. It's so "cringe," as the kids say. I have many friends with PhDs. None of them want to be called "Doctor." None. Not one. Almost every one of my college professors with a PhD insisted we call them by their first name or professor or Mr./Mrs. These people worked hard and earned their degrees, yet they all found the title to be pretentious. They let their walk do the talking that a title could never do.

Why the desperate need to impress? Why the need to artificially anoint oneself with a title? The title doesn't guarantee authority. But Victor thought it did. It's a pretentious move by the insecure and immature.

Diploma mills like Pikes Peak were popping up literally everywhere in mid 20th century America to serve ministers. Charlatans like vic were a dime a dozen and needed some quick credentials to keep up with the market. Econ 101. The supply meets the demand. 

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3 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

That's generous. More accurately, his check cleared. 
 

 

This is always embarrassing. It's so "cringe," as the kids say. I have many friends with PhDs. None of them want to be called "Doctor." None. Not one. Almost every one of my college professors with a PhD insisted we call them by their first name or professor or Mr./Mrs. These people worked hard and earned their degrees, yet they all found the title to be pretentious. They let their walk do the talking that a title could never do.

Why the desperate need to impress? Why the need to artificially anoint oneself with a title? The title doesn't guarantee authority. But Victor thought it did. It's a pretentious move by the insecure and immature.

Diploma mills like Pikes Peak were popping up literally everywhere in mid 20th century America to serve ministers. Charlatans like vic were a dime a dozen and needed some quick credentials to keep up with the market. Econ 101. The supply meets the demand. 

I have friends w/MD degrees who don't insist on being called "doctor." :drink:

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21 hours ago, WordWolf said:

When it comes to the delivery of the sermons, this was something different.  vpw used the works of others to write the sermons, but was able to deliver the content with all the skill of the carnival barker.   If you handed him a completed sermon, he could deliver it looking full of conviction.   He studied Homiletics- or how to deliver a sermon. 

 

HOWEVER,

his skill at ONLY delivering the work of others says a lot about vpw, especially since he rarely gave due credit. 

 

17 hours ago, Twinky said:

Seems to me he was very talented.

At what?  At being a conman.  So talented, in fact, that we are still talking about him and asking questions, nearly 50 years after his death.

 

9 hours ago, Rocky said:

Sure, but we're using him as a case study to dissect his anti-social behavior/conduct/exploits/results. :spy:

 :eusa_clap:    Yes !!!!!

 

Thinking along those lines I Googled “what is the skill set of a great performer?” and the first hit was from a Musical Stages website article: Skills needed in the Performing Arts Industry . Since in my opinion wierwille was a great performer (as in a great actor who entertains an audience) I've quoted some excerpts in bold blue from this list that speak to his “talents”   ( I have inserted some comments inside brackets in   [ bold red ]   to explain how they relate to wierwille ) :

Anyone who is hoping to progress in the performing arts industry must be skilled in their chosen discipline. Without the required skills, they will not even be given the opportunity to audition. The industry is very competitive [in religious terminology -  wierwille’s cult was pitted against mainstream Christianity ]     so those who fail to make the grade will not get far. [to be clear, to make the grade in a cult leadership training program so you can ultimately perform like “the master”, all you have to do is follow in blind obedience and hope your sponsors don’t flake out :who_me:  ]

Some performers specialize in one single discipline, whereas other performers are multi-skilled. [ wierwille was multitalented – he knew everything about anything cuz he walked by revelation microsecond by microsecond – he had all five gift ministries, plus the Reich Ministry for Public Enlightenment and Propaganda, the 12th level intellect of Brainiac and the brawn of a Super-Duper. ] Candidates who have been to stage school [ such as homiletics] will often be able to show off a wide range of different performance skills. Candidates who have not been professionally trained may need to be more selective about the roles that they apply for.

 

Confidence:

Performing in front of other people requires a lot of confidence. Although it is natural for performers to be nervous before they go out in front of a crowd, a performer should be able to use their nerves to better their performance. [ wierwille’s preference was liquid confidence – trade name Drambuie  :smilie_kool_aid:   I don't know if having delusions of grandeur is considered a confidence builder   :rolleyes: ]

 

Self-Publicist

Performers must be able to market themselves properly if they wish to get roles in future productions. Most performers will be forced to market themselves regularly if they attend auditions to try to secure work. Being good at self-publicity involves understanding strengths without overselling oneself. [wierwille was exceptional at self-promoting – but lacking humility he probably didn’t realize he kept himself walled up in a prison of lies…I guess being delusional he probably tended to oversell himself]

 

Resilience and Ability to Withstand Criticism

All performers will experience rejection at some point during their career, because it is impossible for one performer to be right for every single part that they audition for. Most performers will also experience some criticism about their performances at some stage. The performing arts are often subjective, so it is unlikely that any performance will appeal to every viewer. [assuming the role of a cult-leader, a smart performer will have absolute control over every aspect of the venue and will be well-prepared for his/her “captive” audience] . Rather than withdrawing, a performer must be able to use criticism and rejection to help them to improve on their performance. [cult-leaders like wierwille fostered an us-versus-them mentality amongst followers. That seems to be the most effective way of dealing with the critics and cop-outs. Why is that so effective? I’ve read that the psychological theory of us-versus-them mentality may explain the tendency of the human mind to categorize people into social groups, whether it is nationality, political affiliation, age, culture, gender, race, etc. When these categories are formed, we draw an invisible line where we differentiate between ‘us’ and ‘them’. When cult-leaders establish such a mindset in followers – then it’s simply a matter of this insulating and isolating process embedded in the mind to work its magic :spy:   check out this thread - the Jonestown massacre / wierwille's spin on it - The Current Psychological Hoax  ]

 

Self-Reflective

Great performers are self-reflective. They are able to look at each of their performances and use the information that they gather to help them to improve themselves. Being self-reflective allows actors to draw on their own performances without developing negative or overly critical feelings about themselves. [ here’s a thought – can a sexual predator, hypocrite, pathological liar, non-stop plagiarist, megalomaniac, malignant narcissist, or someone who is delusional be self-reflective? Sure! Why not? What is being self-reflective? It’s just meditation or serious thought about one's character, actions, and motives.

What is “the self”? In psychology “the self” often refers to a person’s experience as an autonomous being that is separate from others, experienced with continuity through time and place. The experience of the self includes consciousness of one’s physical presence as well as one’s inner character and emotional life. That does not mean it’s always an ACCURATE or HONEST assessment. Remember   I Timothy 4:2    Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. Nuff said on self-reflective...maybe in wierwille's case it's more like self-deceptive :evildenk:  ]

 

Quick-Learner

Performers should be able to learn new pieces quickly and then be able to perform those pieces without the need for additional cues. Some performers are required to learn new scenes or performance pieces within a few hours. A playwright or director may also want to change the way that a scene works, so the performer may be forced to completely relearn different material. [ “learner” is the operative word here. Learner suggests one who picks up a new skill – but in wierwille’s case there was no learning or skill involved in plagiarizing the works of others – since the work was already done for him. I’ve witnessed his incompetence on many occasions in live teachings or when he was impromptu speaking – where he fumbled with trying to make reference to a principle or interpretive key from PFAL. Such are the risks of an incompetent plagiarist going off-script. :biglaugh:  ]

 

Flexibility

A performer will need to take on a variety of different roles over the course of their career. Being flexible will allow them to move between roles easily. This means that they should be able to play the role of a criminal in one performance and then play a hero in their next role. Dance performers may need to be flexible enough for perform dances from a wide range of different genres. [ yup – that was wierwille to a “T” …in his role as “the man of god for this day and time and hour” he could be out there on stage teaching the greatness of “The Word” and later that night in the motorcoach he’s in his alternate role as a predator sexually assaulting a woman in the way corps…under the pretext of providing counseling, sexual healing…and maybe with a little help from a date-rape drug.  :mad2:  ]  

 

Stamina

Performers may be required to work long hours for lowish pay. In the run up to the opening night or the first performance of a new piece, those who are involved may have to work non-stop. Because there are often set deadlines with performances, those who are involved are required to keep working until everything is ready. Many performers are also required to work additional jobs outside of the performance sphere. A lot of actors, dancers and singers in Britain also do shift work such as waitressing or working in retail. They may be required to finish their day job shift and then go straight on to the performance space. [so true. wierwille had a forced-labor crew – the way corps – stringing chairs, working audio and video equipment, working all the logistics of big events like the Rock, Corps Week, the Advanced Class, Weekend in The Word, etc.  – the way corps were working long hours. If they weren’t on paid staff some had to quit or take vacation time since they were required to work at these events...I'll give wierwille the benefit of a doubt, he may have been schtupping for long hours while everyone else was working their a$$ off  ]

  

 

Teamwork

There are a lot of different people involved in creating a successful performance; therefore, anybody who is involved in producing a performance is required to have strong teamwork skills. Listening and communicating well with others will help the performance to come together properly. Understanding instructions and being able to carry them out as requested can help performers to meet their brief. [ ditto what I said on “stamina”…and I would also add rather than “teamwork” like a typical business or sports situation, creating a successful performance for wierwille was more like a military operation – if you bear in mind the soldier-like hierarchy pyramid power structure of TWI. There is a phrase many of the way corps are familiar with “a suggestion is tantamount to an order”. Authoritarians rely on psychological coercion and the manipulation of information as ways to control others. The level of control becomes more stringent as one gets more involved. The way corps are also familiar with teachings on blind obedience. ]

 

Analytical

A performer should be able to analyze the source material that they are given, so that they can understand the key ideas and themes of the piece. Understanding the key ideas and themes of a piece will allow a performer to improve their interpretation of the piece and enhance their performance. [ ditto on what I said on “quick-learner”. not sure if wierwille even really understood all the intellectual property he stole – and since he was an academical lazy-butt anyway I tend to think rather than improve on any works he copied, he may have mangled them more to  make it look different than the original author’s work often providing an impetus to justify his weird ideology. For example, wierwille skewed Bullinger’s handling of    II Peter 1:20   “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” – where Bullinger CORRECTLY explained Scripture did not ORIGINATE in anyone’s private interpretation… that CORRECT explanation is even reflected in other versions – like the NIV – where it reads “Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things.”

In PFAL wierwille twisted it around to mean no one is allowed to privately interpret the Scripture – and he then argued there is either no interpretation possible or the Bible must interpret itself. I got into this nonsense on a thread in doctrinal -  here    where I pointed out that saying “Scripture interprets itself” implies no other agency is needed – which is total claptrap if you Google the definitions for “interpret” , “translate” and “interpreter” – you will observe in all of those definitions there is an intermediary or go-between involved - a person who acts as a link between people of different languages. And do I need to point out the obvious? All the translations and versions of the Bible we now have did not just magically shoot out of an otherworldly printing press…translators of the ancient biblical manuscripts try to bridge the gap between the original languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, Koine Greek and the modern languages of various cultures like English, Spanish, French, etc…can’t believe I bought into wierwille’s shtick !  :confused:  ]

 

Creativity

Performers must be creative if they wish to set themselves apart from others who are involved in the industry. In addition to being able to create entirely new material, a performer should be able to reimagine and reinterpret existing work. For example, an actor may be able to gain attention for himself or herself by performing a different interpretation of a Shakespearean character. [ditto what I said about “resilience and ability to withstand criticism” and “analytical”. In my opinion wierwille’s “inventiveness” was one of the most distinguishing features of his ideology. I look at it this way – that little green PFAL sign-up card was the application for one admission ticket to the bull$hit artistry of wierwille.

something I mentioned on another thread  -   here  - and   here -  PFAL is an insidious fourfold mix of 1. wierwille’s signature intuition... 2. dogmatic fundamentalism... 3. pontificating demonology / spiritualism i.e., the “mechanics” of EXACTLY HOW stuff works in the spiritual realm...  and 4.  Gnosticism – secret knowledge… I consider this quattro compositum to be his “creative” masterpiece. activate the let-the-bull$hit-fly system :shithitsfan: ]

 

Open-Minded

Performers should be open-minded about the subject matter that they are being asked to perform. However, they should also understand that there may be criticism from some parties if the subject of the performance is controversial. Some performances may involve experimental techniques or be largely conceptual rather than following standard narrative patterns. Performers may need to think about challenging their own boundaries to produce the perfect piece of art. On the other hand, each individual must know where to draw the line and be able to say no if they believe that requests are not suitable. [ wierwille had a real knack for coming across as open-minded in his “performance”. If there was any criticism from others, it was attributed to their unbelief of “The Word” or another subtle attack by “the Adversary” on “the man of God”. In public as well as in private wierwille challenged the boundaries of others…he had a great talent for telling convincing lies…he was a bull$hit artist of the highest order who lied and boasted incessantly…truly an “apostle” of sorts - a vigorous and pioneering advocate of his self-serving policies, ideas, and cause…a master of the triple-dog-dare-hyperbole-of-exaggerated-claims meant to be taken literally by devoted followers…wierwille encouraging others to be open-minded to hear “The Word” was actually another one of his subtle persuasion techniques to promote his own rigid opinions, narrow outlook, and twisted ideology.]

 

Time Management and Organization Skills

A performer should have strong time management and organizational skills. Many performers are actually required to work on more than one project at a time, so they need to be able to keep track of their schedule. It is essential for a performer to arrive at their performance space in good time or else it could hold up the entire performance. Good organizational skills will help a performer to make sure that they are adequately prepared for each different project. [I don’t think wierwille could have organized his way out of liquor store that sold nothing but Drambuie.  :mooner:   Time management is the process of planning and exercising conscious control of time spent on specific activities, especially to increase effectiveness, efficiency, and productivity.

I think one of the many reasons the live PFAL 77 class never replaced the "original "  (and I use that term loosely :biglaugh:  ) 1967 PFAL class was because “the teacher” was drunk most of the time. I know – I was there…see my comments above on “quick learner” – at one point wierwille is fumbling around with the “things equal to the same thing are equal to each other”  and Bob Moneyhands – sitting a few seats over from me stands up, cups his hands over his mouth megaphone style and yells out ‘the transitive property of equality’. I could tell that startled wierwille – almost like waking a drunk who fell asleep at the wheel…what a poser – he never mastered his own material – or that of others…:wink2:

Organization skills are those related to creating structure and order, boosting productivity, and prioritizing tasks that must be completed immediately, versus those that can be postponed, delegated to another person, or eliminated altogether. Maintaining strong organizational skills reduce the chance of developing poor work habits such as procrastination, clutter, miscommunication, and inefficiency. The way corps training program – wierwille’s baby – was the antithesis of all that! With the structure of a Nazi concentration camp, the hustle and bustle of busy-work and the procrastination-based mindset of working / thinking / doing “the Word” aka PFAL  - the way corps program was an incredible waste of sponsorship money and my time!]

 

 

From:    Musical Stages website: Skills needed in the Performing Arts Industry

End of excerpts

Edited by T-Bone
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Homiletics.  That was his doctoral thesis paper.  He was enamored with how words could influence people and produce power.

This is why the main Corps training focused on Dale Carnegie plus brainwashing yourself with PFAL collaterals.

This is why VPW plagiarized the most influential things of the day.   He stole so often you can’t even trace all the sources they are so many.

Spiritual 40 club.  Pictures in Founders Room.  Get your church elders to pay for better more influential speakers material to plagiarize.

Gifts of the spirit?  Study Oral Robert’s go to his tent meeting fake him out, meet a guy who knew something there have drinks be misogynistic then plagiarize the guys Holy Spirit book.  Make it the research center of the class stolen from BG Leonard.

Steal all the research guys work through tricks in publishing.

steal camps idea from Glenn Clark.  You know many times when Christian organizations use others ministry work they pay them honor them pay tribute.  VPW just stole their material then hinted about it all coming from himself as a source if not outright lied about it.  Read the intro to RHST.

Ive seen TV show on con artists.  They mostly are amateurs compared to VPW.  The original long con man.  All Way leadership is stamped from that mold.
 

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