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The Absent Christ?


OldSkool
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33 minutes ago, Mike said:

As to my victimization, it sounds like you don't read or take note of the large number of posts that are outrageously crude, even into the scatological.

Scatological? What? Because they say bull?

33 minutes ago, Mike said:

You seem to ignore the posts that are real attacks and have nothing to do with the exchange of opinions.

What? Because people say you're delusional? Dude, you come to a known anti-Way, anti-Saint Vic site and start insist on teaching former class grads, WOWs, and Corps members about PLAF. What is that?

33 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

Look at how I answered T-Bone on this.  If you cant see the overt attacks and mockery then you are blind or just not paying attention.

The mockery comes from your constant attempt to lecture us on things we already know. Get rid of the condensention and watch how it changes.

Edited by So_crates
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29 minutes ago, Mike said:

There are not other places to post.  GreaseSpot is famous for free speech; I am a prime example.   Most other grad sites do not allow much discussion. They are more like advertisements without the free speech passion.  Now GSC is very much like an advertisement for the anti-idol, but it holds free speech higher.  That is commendable in itself.  Discussion was greatly needed 20 years ago.

GreaseSpot is large and as such can field lots of news from the whole set of grads out there.  I first came to GreaseSpot for ministry new, myself.  I was not a poster, just lurking and reading.  I think there are lots of proPFAL readers of GreaseSpot still.  They are loath to post because they see the treatment I get and they see the overblown negativity.

There are lots of reasons I came here; literally I was kidnapped here. Long story.

As to my victimization, it sounds like you don't read or take note of the large number of posts that are outrageously crude, even into the scatological.  You seem to ignore the posts that are real attacks and have nothing to do with the exchange of opinions. Look at how I answered T-Bone on this.  If you cant see the overt attacks and mockery then you are blind or just not paying attention.

What happened? U get banned for trolling? :jump:

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

The active posters now are few in number, usually well under 10, and more like 6 or 7 in About the Way.  Their histories are almost all Corps and usually from TWI-2 and later.

Lots of people have gotten a good look behind the curtain and decided to move on with their lives. I would call that success. In addition, many have simply passed away. It's a harsh reality we all face eventually.

 

As to the latter part of your assessment:

I, myself, was never in the Corps and my Way history dates back to 1972.

 

edit: All of this, of course, has nothing to do with the discussion topic. I just thought I would set the record straight.

Edited by waysider
more stuff to add....I wish I had more time.
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2 hours ago, Mike said:

You forgot: it is only the collaterals I revere, and they are the product of many people with spirit.

 

You forget, we are all aware of you revering wierwille. He was "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", he was "overgifted", and "where he walked, the earth shook."

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52 minutes ago, Mike said:

There are not other places to post.  GreaseSpot is famous for free speech; I am a prime example.   Most other grad sites do not allow much discussion. They are more like advertisements without the free speech passion.  Now GSC is very much like an advertisement for the anti-idol, but it holds free speech higher.  That is commendable in itself.  Discussion was greatly needed 20 years ago.

GreaseSpot is large and as such can field lots of news from the whole set of grads out there.  I first came to GreaseSpot for ministry new, myself.  I was not a poster, just lurking and reading.  I think there are lots of proPFAL readers of GreaseSpot still.  They are loath to post because they see the treatment I get and they see the overblown negativity.

There are lots of reasons I came here; literally I was kidnapped here. Long story.

As to my victimization, it sounds like you don't read or take note of the large number of posts that are outrageously crude, even into the scatological.  You seem to ignore the posts that are real attacks and have nothing to do with the exchange of opinions. Look at how I answered T-Bone on this.  If you cant see the overt attacks and mockery then you are blind or just not paying attention.

Translation- Mike has worn out his welcome everywhere else. He hasn't been banned from the GSC. So, he posts here.    BTW, Mike keeps refusing to take responsibility for his posting. He was never grabbed off the street, gagged and tied up, and driven somewhere. He was not "kidnapped" here.  The "long story" is a short story.  Someone who Mike had sent a communication to said "can you believe the b.s. some people spread? This is what I got in the mail" and posted some of Mike's manifestos. Mike then showed up and tried to defend his nonsense.   That would be a "long story" if Mike was telling it.

BTW. Mike?  The internet is like anywhere else. You can get disagreements and so on. You choose to come here, knowing we know you're posting nonsense and will call you on it.  So, don't pretend to be shocked when it happens.  It's a natural by-product of going somewhere and starting controversy. If you don't want static for adoring wierwille, don't go where wierwille survivors post.   If you don't want to get called on how error-ridden his work was, and how little was done by him, don't post where people know his history.  

Between all the static you get called on around here, I wonder if the staff have wondered whether it is even cost-effective to let you go on for pages and pages and pages, and keep getting refuted, since everything adds up.

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BTW, Mike? 

It's not only dishonest to keep painting the posters as if they think vpw had no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and was continuous, unrelieved evil.  That's just not true.  We've discussed that in threads. I even did a poll- zero people agreed with that position.  We've also discussed him with his positive traits as well- I started a thread once specifically to do just that.    Lying about people while calling THEM liars is never the way to get people on your side.

I'm sure you're unable to process any of that, but that makes it no less true.

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1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

As to my victimization, it sounds like you don't read or take note of the large number of posts that are outrageously crude, even into the scatological.  You seem to ignore the posts that are real attacks and have nothing to do with the exchange of opinions. Look at how I answered T-Bone on this.  If you cant see the overt attacks and mockery then you are blind or just not paying attention.

a-hem... this is the opposite of staying quiet. And frankly, you're descriptions of the criticisms leveled at you seem to be blatantly hyperbolic. 

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3 hours ago, Mike said:

If you post gentle lamb stuff in amongst a bunch of $dang thowers, then don't be too surprised if I lump you in with their condemnation. Stand apart from them a little in time and a lot in rhetoric (like telling them to cut the crap) then your letters to me will be more receivable.  You seem incapable of putting yourself in my shoes. Prove me wrong, please.  Take a close look at the $hit storms your post arrive on my screen within.

It’s not that I’m incapable of putting myself in your shoes – it’s that I feel it’s unnecessary to understand a contrived dilemma of your own design. And if I may hazard a guess, the only problem – or challenge, depending on how one looks at it – is how to use troll tactics of dodging, redirection, disruption and derailment so that the effect can be blamed on others…But that’s just my take on things.

Mike, please take it easy and dial back the perceived threat level midnight  . this is just supposed to be a discussion…If my posts are too long for you just ignore them. Don’t feel obligated to respond to anything of mine – and if you think I’m throwing $hit at you, you’ll get defensive and combative anyway. So, if it’s going to lead to that, just ignore me.  I like Grease Spot Café for the discussions – I don’t get out much so it’s one of the few ways I get to socialize. :who_me:

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41 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

Translation- Mike has worn out his welcome everywhere else. He hasn't been banned from the GSC. So, he posts here.  

It seems he gets something emotionally from posting at GSC, yet he has not yet articulated what it is that he gets.
 

And I wish those who criticize him, ("crudely" or "scatologically") would engage in some serious introspection. He claims you force him to respond. Well, the way I see it, the incentive is reciprocal.

You want to shut him up?

Don't feed [the troll] his emotional incentives.

Some of you have heard this from me before.

So, it's not just Mike who needs to exercise self-awareness and self-discipline.

You will NOT EVER change his mind. NOT EVER "win" an argument with him. Get honest with yourselves.

Skyrider identified Mike as a provocateur. Are you co-dependent?

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3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

It’s not that I’m incapable of putting myself in your shoes – it’s that I feel it’s unnecessary to understand a contrived dilemma of your own design. And if I may hazard a guess, the only problem – or challenge, depending on how one looks at it – is how to use troll tactics of dodging, redirection, disruption and derailment so that the effect can be blamed on others…But that’s just my take on things.

Don't engage. You will NEVER get him to understand. NEVER.

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3 hours ago, Mike said:

Last night I just did not want to go through the work hassle of another essay to explain the apparent contradiction.  You can relate to this right now, because I am going to ask you to work for me.  Please give me the two apparently contradictory statements, AND the exact url or page number where I can find them.  I can then go see the total context.  If you don't do that work for me then I have to do it, and as I said it is not worth that much work for me. 

If I answer you then, it will only be ignored by everyone or misunderstood or mis-characterized or exaggerated or mocked or jeered or ... whatever.

Mike, there’s no need to reiterate what I said, or give you the page number – just click on this hyperlink > T-Bone’s post February 13th, 2023, 11:23 PM, wierwille’s statement vs Mike’s  It’s all right there – your post quoting wierwille and your post to warn others of the devil...

and just so you know - I am not expecting you to somehow explain they are not contradictory - I actually tipped my hand in an earlier post, expressing my opinion of the two contradictory ideas.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

Mike, there’s no need to reiterate what I said, or give you the page number – just click on this hyperlink > T-Bone’s post February 13th, 2023, 11:23 PM, wierwille’s statement vs Mike’s  It’s all right there – your post quoting wierwille and your post to warn others of the devil...

and just so you know - I am not expecting you to somehow explain they are not contradictory - I actually tipped my hand in an earlier post, expressing my opinion of the two contradictory ideas.

Have you considered that Mike doesn't really care what YOU (and/or anyone else) at GSC has to say about ANYTHING? That includes twi, pflap, vpw and any/everything else.

It seems to me an honest reading of two decades of Mike's blathering pretty much settles that point.

So, the next question for EVERYONE else reasonably would be, "what do YOU get out of paying ANY attention to what he says AT ALL?"

Edited by Rocky
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53 minutes ago, Rocky said:

a-hem... this is the opposite of staying quiet. And frankly, you're descriptions of the criticisms leveled at you seem to be blatantly hyperbolic

glad Im not the only one who manages to quote the wrong person with this site software....lol

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39 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Don't engage. You will NEVER get him to understand. NEVER.

 

28 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Have you considered that Mike doesn't really care what YOU (and/or anyone else) at GSC has to say about ANYTHING? That includes twi, pflap, vpw and any/everything else.

It seems to me an honest reading of two decades of Mike's blathering pretty much settles that point.

So, the next question for EVERYONE else reasonably would be, "what do YOU get out of paying ANY attention to what he says AT ALL?"

 

42 minutes ago, Rocky said:

It seems he gets something emotionally from posting at GSC, yet he has not yet articulated what it is that he gets.
 

And I wish those who criticize him, ("crudely" or "scatologically") would engage in some serious introspection. He claims you force him to respond. Well, the way I see it, the incentive is reciprocal.

You want to shut him up?

Don't feed [the troll] his emotional incentives.

Some of you have heard this from me before.

So, it's not just Mike who needs to exercise self-awareness and self-discipline.

You will NOT EVER change his mind. NOT EVER "win" an argument with him. Get honest with yourselves.

Skyrider identified Mike as a provocateur. Are you co-dependent?

Right – I wasn’t expecting him to understand – I was simply explaining why I see no need for me to understand his dilemma.

FYI – I consider numerous things – but - since when is it a requirement to read someone’s mind to determine if they care? I will look at the rules of Grease Spot again – but I’m pretty sure being telepathic is not a prerequisite for joing a discussion. :rolleyes:

And I have to confess I am confused on the rules of engagement for a discussion - in the forum rules it covers stuff about trolling - and I have repeated reported certain posts to moderators - and they tell me there's nothing that can be done since they don't violate the rules...I sense that you have your own idea of the rules of engagement - fine - you're entitled to that - no offense, just don't expect me to be all rah rah and accept them every time. :rolleyes:

Is there some memo I missed? Is there a group PM that didn’t include me?

I know this might be hard to believe, but I try to pay attention to the flow of things here. I’ve seen your posts to remind everyone about the point of a discussion. I’ve been trying to tone down my a$$-hole abrasiveness - yeah - got a long way to go - but I don't think I'm still that bad that I need someone lecturing me . Why I keep up with the discussion I don’t know – maybe I’m a glutton for punishment. :spy:

I have  NOT  seen an announcement for everyone to ignore a certain poster.

Feel free to make an example of me – I’m 69 years old but like to come to the adult table anyway and join in the discussion – so truth be known I don’t care – in case you haven’t read my mind lately.  :wave:

 

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Just now, T-Bone said:

Right – I wasn’t expecting him to understand – I was simply explaining why I see no need for me to understand his dilemma.

But why does that even matter? He doesn't care whether you understand or not. He's going to blather on regardless and without regard to what you even said.

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3 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

And I have to confess I am confused on the rules of engagement for a discussion - in the forum rules it covers stuff about trolling - and I have repeated reported certain posts to moderators - and they tell me there's nothing that can be done since they don't violate the rules...I sense that you have your own idea of the rules of engagement - fine - you're entitled to that - no offense, just don't expect me to be all rah rah and accept them every time. :rolleyes:

Is it really a question of rules of engagement? Or are you saying you somehow like having Mike and his BS dominating every thread?

I am not and have not said or suggested you broke any rules.

 

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16 minutes ago, Rocky said:

But why does that even matter? He doesn't care whether you understand or not. He's going to blather on regardless and without regard to what you even said.

In my opinion - it matters in an open and honest discussion - whether something is important, or about whether something makes a difference. That may not matter to you. And it may not matter to you but I like to think I’m being as open and honest as possible in a discussion and grant everyone else the same benefit of a doubt – not to divine their motives. You may think I’m a dumb-a$$ and so naïve as to be oblivious to anyone’s troll tactics – but I assure you I’m not a total dunce...in case you haven't noticed I have been pointed and selective in my questions and challenges with some sense of decorum in a DISCUSSION.

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2 hours ago, OldSkool said:

What happened? U get banned for trolling? :jump:

No, LoL.
But I have seen two or three of my very mild posts deleted for reasons of simple non-conformity. 

Not all are that strict. I have had friendly conversations in PMs with lots of the admins, and respected their wishes, keeping doors open for future negotiations.

*/*/*/*

I want to thank you for your recent thread of 4 hours ago, "Promised Relief: Broken Promises from the Way International."

I didn't want to post on it and "mess it up."  That was a very heartfelt post. It looks like others are keeping a respectful distance like I did.

The reason I am thanking you for it is because I am able to say I agree with you of your TWI-2 and TWI-3 assessments.  I often wish we could celebrate the things we agree on.

I have to admit that TWI-1 had its share of dark spots, but I was able to avoid them for all of the 70s, and a little into the 80s. 

My stint at HQ was 1976-78, and though I learned a lot of facts and made a couple of close friends, I regard it as a mild dark spot in my ministry life. 

It had a few stars.  I liked Uncle Harry a lot, but VPW was mostly out of the picture for me then, and Corps elitism was on the rise.  I was not allowed to date a girl in the 7th Corps in residence at HQ circa 1978 because I was not Corps.  Moving the Word there sucked.  I signed up two locals to take the class, hippie types, but they had to get their nourishment in Sidney.  HQ was a pretty depressing place for me.  I missed the action of lots of new people joyously learning that God was good for the first time.

But in the mid 80s I saw TWI-2 quickly descend into a stinky and incompetent cult with many dark spots surrounding star Corps leaders. 

There were a few light spots in TWI also. I remember a happy observation circa 1986, for the first time,  of a ministry reverend recommending to a friend that I signed up for the class go to AA and/or find professional help. 

I thought that was wise, and I learned a lot about AA in supporting my friend's decision to fight alcoholism with more than prayer and positive confessions. 

Jesus once referred to some extreme conditions requiring much "prayer and fasting" where I understand fasting means to hear and do EXACTLY what God gives in revelation for bringing to pass a true healing.

I don't remember if you participated on the AA thread that happened here a year or so ago.  You might like it if unfamiliar with it.

I can understand better now from your new threade, and I cannot blame you for being suspicious of TWI-1 and that VPW's work can't be trusted. 

You are not the first person here that I have had these thoughts of sympathetic understanding for.  It seems to often be the case that the most bitter people here at GSC came in after VPW's death.

I could be wrong, but I keep seeing anecdotal evidence to that, and I know for sure the ministry started seriously wobbling before VPW's death. He knew it was going down and did some last minute things to mitigate things, but it was too late.

But the nosedive that TWI-2 did in 1986 was extreme, and anyone who took the class after 1986, either hit one of those rare light spots in the marble cake, or they were headed for lot of trouble as TWI-2 got worse and worse. 

I know a lot less about TWI-3, but at least they seem too have contained the bad stuff, and made it possible for a milder TWI-4 to emerge. 

I wish that you and others who came in could have another chance to see the good that was once there, but I know I can't rush that or make it happen in any way. 

You gave me reason to remember more to pray for people here, and for grads anywhere who were robbed by TWI. 

 

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34 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Is it really a question of rules of engagement? Or are you saying you somehow like having Mike and his BS dominating every thread?

I am not and have not said or suggested you broke any rules.
 

Never said I liked anyone dominating a thread with a bunch of bull-$hit – although I have been guilty of that myself many times.

I feel you’re being condescending to me – that’s why I believed I violated  your rules of engagement. Now I’m thinking you’re trying to gaslight me into questioning my ability to understand and communicate. Well…maybe I’m not good at all that now – but I don’t know what I can say or do to please you…Maybe there should be a sandbox forum for posters-in-training – I’d be up for that…Or if anyone can provide some links to websites where a dumb-a$$ like me can have some simulated-discussions – I’d appreciate it.

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