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"Every woman in the kingdom," cult prostitution and retribution


Twinky
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1 hour ago, Rocky said:

the 2015 movie Spotlight three times. Something (some) legislatures have done and others (including citizens) still can do is eliminate clergy-penitent privilege. (Btw, THIS is a matter of law/legal discussion, NOT politics.)  Several US states have successfully eliminated it. In others, certain churches have thwarted movements to eliminate it by carrot or stick manipulation of only a handful of legislators.

Good movie, Spotlight.  Been a while since I saw it, but I remember a lot from it.

It's not just RC that this affects.  In the UK, Methodists and Anglicans alike are upping their safeguarding practices to keep vulnerable people safe.  And employees and volunteers in the church (and many other organisations) for people-facing roles where they might come into contact with vulnerables now have to be checked by the police Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS), which discloses not just convictions but also intel that doesn't go to conviction but can form a wider picture of a checked person's background. 

(DBS sounds a bit "police state" but it isn't intended as such.  It came out from the horrific murders of two 10 year old schoolgirls, in a quiet country village.  They'd passed by the school caretaker's house and, of course, they knew him.  He lured them into the house, killed them and hid them in a ditch a few miles away.  Turns out there had been suspicions about him, about rape or other unwanted sexual behaviour, not sufficient for charges to be laid, but enough to warrant a cautious eye being kept on the perpetrator.  And nobody knew because he moved to a different area, different police force.  Google "Soham murders" if you want to follow up.  The new DBS procedure allows that suspicion to be recorded for potential employers to check.)

My friend is the Safeguarding Officer for the biggest church in the city, has been for nearly two decades, and works in close contact with the diocese where there are issues.  He's been told that there are about 6% abusers of various types out there in the population - which means, in a church with an electoral role of say 3-400, there could be quite a number of undesirables in the place.  The church will accept them (Christ forgave sinners!) - but with very strict conditions, depending on the type of abuse it was.  Might often mean that the offender has to have a nominated person chaperone them at all times. 

If it's a clergy member who has fallen in this way (and that definitely includes inappropriate sexual activity with a member of the congregation - including "willing" adults - a clergyman with a woman in his church), the offender will be removed from duty, face disciplinary action from the diocese, and, pending outcomes, may be put on "garden leave" on full pay, or moved to a non-contact role in some dusty dungeon of a library (say). 

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4 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

I'm unclear what accountability via the internet means.  Anyone can post anything to the internet.  And I doubt someone with LCM's reality feels the effects.

Yeah, anyone can post anything. Nevertheless, Loy's reality was unmistakably altered by being exposed via the interwebs, not necessarily in ways he would have preferred. 

I apologize if this triggers you. That would be clearly contrary to my intent.

I won't try to argue or bicker or clarify what accountability via the internet might mean.

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lcm's reality includes having been forced to "resign" at twi - and that was largely due to Waydale's contents, and what the lawyers would happen if the lawsuit went to court.   He really felt the effects. 

'Accountability via the internet" means that they now had a reputation on the internet, and it was a largely empty reputation.  While anyone may post anything, that problem is generally self-correcting.   Reputations grow and shrink, and discussions- news or otherwise-  about a problem tends to publicize it- and in this case, more women, when they heard of the lawsuit, were prepared to  speak up.  The lawyers were worried this might lead to a "Class Action" suit, and cost twi a lot in expenses. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

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9 hours ago, Rocky said:

Yeah, anyone can post anything. Nevertheless, Loy's reality was unmistakably altered by being exposed via the interwebs, not necessarily in ways he would have preferred. 

I apologize if this triggers you. That would be clearly contrary to my intent.

I won't try to argue or bicker or clarify what accountability via the internet might mean.

I'm not triggered as much as I'm trying to see why . . . the use of social media to demonize others without cause is commonplace.  Teenagers do it all the time.

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8 hours ago, WordWolf said:

lcm's reality includes having been forced to "resign" at twi - and that was largely due to Waydale's contents, and what the lawyers would happen if the lawsuit went to court.   He really felt the effects. 

'Accountability via the internet" means that they now had a reputation on the internet, and it was a largely empty reputation.  While anyone may post anything, that problem is generally self-correcting.   Reputations grow and shrink, and discussions- news or otherwise-  about a problem tends to publicize it- and in this case, more women, when they heard of the lawsuit, were prepared to  speak up.  The lawyers were worried this might lead to a "Class Action" suit, and cost twi a lot in expenses. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

Correct.  Nothing happened to LCM.

Mr. Allen started the suit . . . or Mrs Allen, if she has a name.

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Well I think the public exposure threatens to hurt numbers.  Numbers affect income.  New people won’t join a cult with questionable press many times or be prevented from joining.  
 

This is why the Way has actively targeted trying to take down this site over the years.  This site probably is the single biggest deterrent to joining the Way cult.

So the fear of this drives the leadership to make decisions.  These decisions have impact.  Anything that could hurt the bottom line is from Satan clearly :rolleyes:

LCM gave up his presidency over this, and was demoted stripped and removed from the general population.  
 

That clearly is not nothing.

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*waves to Linder*   They say you're full of fear, Dude.

 

I know these cites cause harm too.

 

"All women belong to the king"  . . . .like in a marriage?  Where one party is the other's property?

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1 minute ago, Bolshevik said:

*waves to Linder*   They say you're full of fear, Dude.

 

I know these cites cause harm too.

 

"All women belong to the king"  . . . .like in a marriage?  Where on party is the other's property?

Dude Linder is fine he turned his inside knowledge into permission to double dip collecting a staff salary and selling real estate on the side.

They will never do anything to him he knows where the bodies are buried.

Im sure he reads and laughs his arse off at all of us.

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3 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Dude Linder is fine he turned his inside knowledge into permission to double dip collecting a staff salary and selling real estate on the side.

They will never do anything to him he knows where the bodies are buried.

Im sure he reads and laughs his arse off at all of us.

He definitely follows along and is likely somewhat sympathetic on non-doctrinal issues.

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2 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Dude Linder is fine he turned his inside knowledge into permission to double dip collecting a staff salary and selling real estate on the side.

They will never do anything to him he knows where the bodies are buried.

Im sure he reads and laughs his arse off at all of us.

I've heard his responses to posts here.  . . . lol  . . . well my posts anyway

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1 minute ago, Bolshevik said:

I've heard his responses to posts here.  . . . lol  . . . well my posts anyway

I worked for him for a few years before going on the cabinet and was close to him on some levels. Personally, I've always liked John. He's too vested in two to ever break free though.

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11 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

He definitely follows along and is likely somewhat sympathetic on non-doctrinal issues.

As security he is not paid to have an opinion. As a professional he knows this and has always stayed within those boundaries.  I have never seen him display an opinion anywhere on anything.  Mostly to present less surface area to attack I presume.

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Just now, chockfull said:

As security he is not paid to have an opinion. As a professional he knows this and has always stayed within those boundaries.  I have never seen him display an opinion anywhere on anything.  Mostly to present less surface area to attack I presume.

I would say that's a fair assessment. In order to survive on the cabinet as long as he did he has mastered twi politics. And at the cabinet level those politics are ugly. If given the choice between himself and another of jumping in front of a train John would push the guy next to him and use the resistance to jump back. My man is a survivor. 

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31 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

I worked for him for a few years before going on the cabinet and was close to him on some levels. Personally, I've always liked John. He's too vested in two to ever break free though.

I think you know I worked for him too :biglaugh::biglaugh:

Some incidents involving some other cabinet got me and then him dragged into some BS.  I may have got a little sleepy after that. :biglaugh::biglaugh:

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3 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I think you know I worked for him too :biglaugh::biglaugh:

Some incidents involving some other cabinet got me and then him dragged into some BS.  I may have got a little sleepy after that. :biglaugh::biglaugh:

This is actually on topic, Twinky.

I thought I was presenting a problem to leadership about leadership and some young ladies and then there was all this stonewalling and warnings that every conversation has been documented.

"documented"

It was real important for the cabinet guy to say slow and firm . . . *DOCUMENTED*  . . . bwhahahaha!!!

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7 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

I think you know I worked for him too :biglaugh::biglaugh:

Some incidents involving some other cabinet got me and then him dragged into some BS.  I may have got a little sleepy after that. :biglaugh::biglaugh:

Lmao. ... Yeah....your not the only one who fell asleep on Shelby County Rd....Joe did that the most outta anyone back then...lmao

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20 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Lmao. ... Yeah....your not the only one who fell asleep on Shelby County Rd....Joe did that the most outta anyone back then...lmao

whoa whoa whoa  :biglaugh:

That was nothing like Joe . . . poor kid

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2 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

"documented"

It was real important for the cabinet guy to say slow and firm . . . *DOCUMENTED*  . . . bwhahahaha!!!

Jolly good, then. 

"Glad you're documenting this.  Then when the $hit really hits the fan, you can't say you didn't know.  Can I hav a copy of the document, please?"

4 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

Mr. Allen started the suit . . . or Mrs Allen, if she has a name.

He is P@ul and she is F3rn3.  And I hope they are still happily married.  Good on him for going in to bat for her.  There are reports he nearly "batted" the trustees, and LCM in particular.

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5 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Jolly good, then. 

"Glad you're documenting this.  Then when the $hit really hits the fan, you can't say you didn't know.  Can I hav a copy of the document, please?"

He is P@ul and she is F3rn3.  And I hope they are still happily married.  Good on him for going in to bat for her.  There are reports he nearly "batted" the trustees, and LCM in particular.

So much so that when Craig tried to smooth it over with them he had Lind3r right there and Lind3r was armed.

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As for Linder, he knew what was going on - with VPW and with LCM, and the various young women.  Which makes him an accessory.  In law, and in God's eyes.  

Remember God's punishment on accessories to criminal behaviour - like Eli, who did nothing to stop his sons.  

1 Sam 3: 

11Then the LORD said to Samuel, “I am about to do something in Israel at which the ears of all who hear it will tingle. 12On that day I will carry out against Eli everything I have spoken about his family, from beginning to end. 13I told him that I would judge his house forever for the iniquity of which he knows, because his sons blasphemed Goda and he did not restrain them. 14Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli, ‘The iniquity of Eli’s house shall never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.’

And 1 Sam 4: 

“What happened, my son?” Eli asked.

17The messenger answered, “Israel has fled before the Philistines, and there has been a great slaughter among the people. Your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, are both dead, and the ark of God has been captured.”

18As soon as the ark of God was mentioned, Eli fell backward from his chair by the city gate, and being old and heavy, he broke his neck and died

So: some sins cannot be atoned.  Ultimately, death, and the family wiped out.  Seems fair to me.

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15 minutes ago, Twinky said:

As for Linder, he knew what was going on - with VPW and with LCM, and the various young women.  Which makes him an accessory.  In law, and in God's eyes.  

Remember God's punishment on accessories to criminal behaviour - like Eli, who did nothing to stop his sons.  

1 Sam 3: 

11Then the LORD said to Samuel, “I am about to do something in Israel at which the ears of all who hear it will tingle. 12On that day I will carry out against Eli everything I have spoken about his family, from beginning to end. 13I told him that I would judge his house forever for the iniquity of which he knows, because his sons blasphemed Goda and he did not restrain them. 14Therefore I have sworn to the house of Eli, ‘The iniquity of Eli’s house shall never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.’

And 1 Sam 4: 

“What happened, my son?” Eli asked.

17The messenger answered, “Israel has fled before the Philistines, and there has been a great slaughter among the people. Your two sons, Hophni and Phinehas, are both dead, and the ark of God has been captured.”

18As soon as the ark of God was mentioned, Eli fell backward from his chair by the city gate, and being old and heavy, he broke his neck and died

So: some sins cannot be atoned.  Ultimately, death, and the family wiped out.  Seems fair to me.

 

Sounds like we are mixing ancient law and modern law?

The vagueness of it all doesn't help, either.

 

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35 minutes ago, Twinky said:

. . . 

He is P@ul and she is F3rn3.  And I hope they are still happily married.  Good on him for going in to bat for her.  There are reports he nearly "batted" the trustees, and LCM in particular.

LCM said there was an affair.  That would pi$$ of Paul.  Unless that was the practice, as some claim.

Her being unwilling would make it rape.  

LCM didn't serve time.  Is he registered as a sex offender?  Any real consequences besides the opportunity to get away from HQ?

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6 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

I'm not triggered as much as I'm trying to see why . . . the use of social media to demonize others without cause is commonplace.  Teenagers do it all the time.

Perhaps rather than asking social media users, you might find better and more satisfying insight by seeking out and finding academicians who have put research into it and have insight on a possible sociological nexus.  

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6 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Perhaps rather than asking social media users, you might find better and more satisfying insight by seeking out and finding academicians who have put research into it and have insight on a possible sociological nexus.  

Greasespote Cafe and Waydale exposed nothing.  They just fired blame in an arbitrary manner.  

Unless you're saying these cites were initiated by qualified professionals . . . . I'm hearing gobbledegook.

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