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15 minutes ago, So_crates said:

Get out the hip waders, it's starting to get deep.

Let's just ignore clipped English.

So then wanting us to take PLAF, you wanted us to take a class that had inaccuracies in it. As Saint Vic himself claimed the bible interprets itself.

You mean you forgot the bible interprets itself in the context and how the word was used before?

And just what do you think the remonstrance is about? The very thing in your definition, they just stated it the way it's stated in the class. 

 

 

Here is the literal:

The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

 



 

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15 minutes ago, Mike said:

 

Here is the literal:

The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

 



 

And just what do you think the protest is over? The phrasing?

You can play word games all you want, it just shows your inability to deal with the issue at hand.

Note Saint Vic himself used the phrase:

https://thewaymagazine.com/scripture-interprets-verse-right-written/

 

Edited by So_crates
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Mike, you so funny!

Mike’s schtick reminds me of the Maxwell Smart’s “would you believe ?” routine – like a used car salesman who keeps lowering the cost of the car he’s trying to sell “would you buy it for this much?”

 

 

 

Edited by T-Bone
add more Kool-Aid
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1 hour ago, Mike said:

The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

If you take that approach you will never understand it. It's a foreign book to our western ways. Also, the Bible doesn't give exhaustive historical accounts that show the context it was penned. It actually takes secular sources such as Flavius Josephus and his works:

4.1The Jewish War

4.2Jewish Antiquities

4.3Against Apion

4.4Spurious works

Not only secular works but "rejected books" such as The Septuagint, the same Septuagint that Jesus, Peter, and Paul used in their time.

We are told to study to show outselves approved unto God...not let intrepret scripture itself to show ourselves approved.

Whats really gonna bake your noodle is I just explained (few posts ago on Romans) how God is bringing salvation to Israel as we speak, yet, your dispensationalist pov has Israel's salvation at a future date in the 6th admin. Error.

Edited by OldSkool
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4 hours ago, Mike said:

 

Here is the literal:

The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

 



 

You just affirmed what has been proven here dozens of times. (The 2nd time established it.) We do the interpreting. You finally got it right!

What you got wrong is “using material from within itself.” Material? Not just internal evidence, also, external evidence must be utilized.

No matter how (H-O-W) you parse it, the Bible cannot and does not ever interpret itself. “The Bible interprets itself” is a stupid sentence that should never be repeated.

How stupid? Four crucified stupid, that’s how. 

Edited by Nathan_Jr
Bronze idols will not please God.
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5 hours ago, Mike said:

 

Here is the literal:

The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

 



 

Actually, this is the literal, according to usage by Saint Vic:

The bible can only get interpreted properly

When you let me do the interpreting

By using  my materials

Which I claim come from within the bible itself.

 

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9 hours ago, Mike said:

Here is the literal:
The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

and the Bibe can be erroneously interpreted too - like Bullinger's 4 crucified which wierwille stupidly parroted!

 

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11 minutes ago, T-Bone said:

and the Bibe can be erroneously interpreted too - like Bullinger's 4 crucified which wierwille stupidly parroted!

 

Dat’s riiiiight!

Still, the Bible never interprets itself, even erroneously. Never. Ever.

Mike finally got it right. So, so right. WE interpret the Bible. Proud of ya, Mike!

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10 hours ago, Mike said:

 

Here is the literal:

The Bible can get interpreted properly
when we do that interpreting
by using material that comes
from within the Bible itself.

 



 

PFAL: Session 4

How The Word  Interprets Itself

 

Listening With A Purpose

2. What is the threefold way all Scripture interprets itself?

4. What are the four ways Scripture interprets itself in the verse?

 

Ruh Roe! :rolleyes:

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14 minutes ago, Mike said:

HOWEVER, we want to avoid private (one's own) interpretation in the process.

And how do we do that?

Hint:
Remember the figure of speech includes the word "itself."



 

We got private interpretation in the process.

HINT: I won't mention any names, but his initials are Saint Vic

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52 minutes ago, Mike said:

HOWEVER, we want to avoid private (one's own) interpretation in the process.

And how do we do that?

Hint:
Remember the figure of speech includes the word "itself."



 

II Peter 1:19,20,21 (KJV)

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

===========================================

How many decades ago were we discussing how vpw's explanation of these verses were completely wrong?   vpw said that 1:20 was warning us not to "privately interpret" the verses of the Bible- while doing exactly that with that verse.

These verses explain the ORIGIN of Scripture.  It's a more sure word of prophecy that wasn't of someone's "letting-loose" (to use a familiar phrase), nor by the will of man long ago, but rather the result of holy men of God who spoke as directed by The Holy Ghost.

This "one's own letting-loose" thing meaning how to avoid approaching the Bible, that was an elementary mistake that, as often happened, was the result of elevating the wording of the 1611 King James Version over the texts from which it came.  Often, vpw came out with a lengthy explanation with rambling analogies, all stemming from the exact phrasing in the King James Version.  However, when one goes back to the texts- Stephens, Nestle, etc, one finds nothing of the kind.  vpw got hung up on the exact phrasing of the King James Version as if it was AUTHORITATIVE in its exact phrasing, rather than a translation of texts more authoritative than itself.

So, to avoid "one's own private interpretation" as referred to in I Peter 1:20, don't try to write something by your will and claim it's Scripture.   (BTW, trying to write something by God's Will and claim it's Scripture is self-defeating, so don't try that, either.)  

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1 hour ago, waysider said:

Yo, Mike

Did Wierwille say Scripture interprets itself or didn't he?

 

YES!  He did say that phrase, and then he moved on to the details.

VPW used the figure of speech "The Bible interprets itself"  to summarize the topic, and to make it memorable. That that phrase NOT to supply the details, but to summarize them, figuratively.

It is a self referential mnemonic, easy to remember, and signifies great importance, being a figure of speech.

He then spends lots of time in the film class explaining what he means by that catchy phrase.  He spends many pages on it in the book.  It is a highly detailed topic, and it served me well.

I don't focus on the summary at the beginning of the topic, the figure of speech, the self referential mnemonic.  That has a limited purpose; the meat comes later in the details.



 

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14 minutes ago, Mike said:

It is a self referential mnemonic, easy to remember, and signifies great importance, being a figure of speech.

Except that it’s none of these things. (We’ll, it’s memorable, because it’s absurd and illogical and hateful towards God.)

The phrase can only cause confusion and spiritual retardation. It should never be spoken or written. UNLESS, one intends to defecate in the mouth of God. 

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

VPW used the figure of speech "The Bible interprets itself"  to summarize the topic, and to make it memorable. That that phrase NOT to supply the details, but to summarize them, figuratively.

No he didn't. He stole the concept from Bullinge's How to Enjoy Reading the Bible. It's not figurative the way Bullinger used it and it wasn't figurative when wierwille presented it and it's not figurative with twi still teaching it the same way to this day. Your moving your own boundaries cause you got caught contradicting yourself yet again.

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“The Bible interprets itself” is a deterministic belief . No other agency is needed to explain it - it is self-explanatory. Logically some ideas are easily communicated / understood if there is common ground - everyone knows what a human being is for example. But ancient documents written so long ago in other languages, other cultures, within other worldviews will need explanation and clarification for modern folks to get some idea of what they were talking about…wow wee wow - this session is like the Advanced Class of the NT canon thread :spy:

 

Prophecy did not come by the will of man, yet they spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The human - unique and imperfect elements (writing style, cultural and worldview peculiarities) of Scripture indicates a collaborative effort. In other words, the meeting of “the wills”. God’s will and the will of each individual writer. That would be impossible in a deterministic universe. 

This apparently  “freewheeling” universe seems even to be exemplified in the Godhead for in  Luke 22:42 we read Jesus prayed not my will but thine be done.

Edited by T-Bone
I was determined to revise this post
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55 minutes ago, waysider said:

"The Bible Interprets Itself"...not a mnemonic.

MY GOSH! Who knew? (*_*)

And all this time I thought The Bible Intreprets Itself was a memory peg!!! Say it aint so!!!!! AHHHH!!!!

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