Your statement, "Thebrainis essentially a believing machine. It believes any story you feed it.", is utter nonsense and defies rational thought. Do you ever get dizzy from trying to spin this garbage?
Then there's the question of who's responsible for that which one feeds one's mind (brain).
If Mike's right, how many incarcerated humans in how many countries are no longer responsible for what they did? See my comment above about mens rea.
Jesus told the apostles to breathe in, the text says breathe on. There's nothing about the holy spirit giving you the words or you move your lips and vocal cord.
There's also a passage in Act that describes the sound as a great rushing wind which Saint Vic interpreted as the apostles breathing.
Since Mike can’t remember, will someone please point me to where Jesus teaches how (H-O-W) to speak in tongues?
4 hours ago, Mike said:
Peek in RHST. It's all there and in the class.
4 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:
I don’t have RHST.
I’ll repeat:
Since Mike can’t remember, will someone please point me to where Jesus teaches how (H-O-W) to speak in tongues?
It appears Mike is not willing to cooperate (he’s being his evasive best) and since I’ve been reviewing both my RTHST and TNDC for several of my posts on the thread Why PFAL sucks, I can tell you right off the bat, wierwille beats around the bush in RTHST, he goes off on his stupid redefinitions of Greek words dechomai and lambano more than any details on HOW to speak in tongues.
However, in the green book, The New Dynamic Church, in chapter 10 How to Speak in Tongues on page 117 wierwille says in these excerpts:
Have you ever thought through the mechanics of speech? You with your own vocal organs have to do the speaking. The same mechanics that are involved in speaking English or any other known language are involved in speaking in tongues…
…The only difference between speaking in tongues and speaking in English is that when I say, “I love the Lord Jesus Christ,” I have to think. When I speak in tongues I do not think the words I speak. God gives the words to my spirit, and I formulate them on my lips. I do not think the words, but they are there when I move my lips, my throat, my tongue.
End of excerpts
~ ~ ~ ~
My critique of wierwille’s above instructions involves my recent post in the thread Why PFAL sucks - here
97. wierwille’s tendency to particularize the nebulous, the mysterious, the unknowable, and the incomprehensible
wierwille’s description of the mechanics and process of speaking in tongues is typical of his affinity to delineate the inexplicable. Although he's actually just describing the mechanics of speech - astudent's imagination can assume God is supplying the words.
He is describing very fine motor skills that any adult who speaks a language is very familiar with. Read the hyperlinks I have below. The trick that wierwille pulls on students is to get them to loosen up on inhibitions. Once a person gets over the fear of making a fool of themself – it’s easy to speak gibberish in front of others. Just use all the parts of speech you use when speaking in your language - except don't think about the sounds you are making...in high school I use to be good at mimicking Russian and Chinese - and my friends said it sounded real.
One must still engage the brain to think of how to form the lips, tongue, how much to open or close the vocal folds, etc. – if the vocal folds close completely – air cannot pass through. This is called a glottal stop. Many languages utilize the glottal stop to produce consonant sounds.
The most basic principle of speech production is that all sounds are produced by moving air. Air moves from the lungs to the mouth via the throat. The vocal folds (or vocal cords) vibrate as needed. (More on this below.) And then the articulators (mouth, lips, tongue, cheek, palate, etc.) shape specific sounds.
Why do we need to be taught how to speak in tongues? If it’s something of God – we shouldn’t have to be taught. It’s like wierwille’s bogus Great Principle – God who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit and blah dee blah blah…where is that stated in the Bible?
Neither Mike nor wierwille know what they’re talking about!
wierwille beats around the bush in RTHST, he goes off on his stupid redefinitions of Greek words dechomai and lambano more than any details on HOW to speak in tongues.
Not just stupid - four-crucified stupid!
Do you know where in the Bible Jesus teaches how (H-O-W) to speak in tongues, as Mike claims?
Do you know where in the Bible Jesus teaches how (H-O-W) to speak in tongues, as Mike claims?
Mike may be thinking of page 43 of RTHST, wierwille quotes John 20:22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost
I also remember - maybe in the class - reference to Acts 2:2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. and I think wierwille suggested it was the apostles breathing - but the text says the sound came from heaven.
in the Bible, there is an allusion to Spirit being like the wind...I think whoever "taught" wierwille may have fixated on the "breathed" and "wind" and assumed that was part of the "ritual" - just a guess
I do know for a fact wierwille was full of hot air
may be thinking of page 43 of RTHST, wierwille quotes John 20:22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost
According to victor, was this lower case holy spirit?
According to victor, was this lower case holy spirit?
And what does this have to do with tongues?
in the book wierwille has written receive [lambano] ye the Holy Ghost [pneuma hagion] - in his explanation wierwille handles it as lower case - holy spirit
what does that have to do with tongues? nothing!
here's a visual aid that might help you differentiate between Big Ghost and little ghost
Maybe it was in John? I'm not finding it in Matthew. I wish Mike could remember.
I apologize for the delay: my tablet's battery died.
You're right. It's in John. John 20:22 to be exact.
It only says Jesus breathed in and said, "Receive the holy spirit." All the move your lips, your vocal cords were added by Saint Vic.
I find it very curious that for as important as Saint Vic claims SIT was God left no detailed instructions on how to do it. You'd think Paul would have wrote a paragraph or two at the very least.
You'd think Paul would have wrote a paragraph or two at the very least.
He wrote 3 chapters on it.
One item that pops up is "The spirits of the prophets are subject unto the prophets."
That shows who has control of the when to do it: the prophets have the control. Same with SIT, and how we have control over the on/off switch and the silent/out-loud switch.
in the book wierwille has written receive [lambano] ye the Holy Ghost [pneuma hagion] - in his explanation wierwille handles it as lower case - holy spirit
what does that have to do with tongues? nothing!
I thought Jesus didn't have holy spirit. That's why Pentecost was so important. That having holy spirit was something the Jews didn't have. That's the distinguishing feature of those in the family or household. That's how we are to do the greater works.
One item that pops up is "The spirits of the prophets are subject unto the prophets."
That shows who has control of the when to do it: the prophets have the control. Same with SIT, and how we have control over the on/off switch and the silent/out-loud switch.
Saint Vic teaching about self-control is like Jeffry Dahmer teaching a cooking class.
One item that pops up is "The spirits of the prophets are subject unto the prophets."
That shows who has control of the when to do it: the prophets have the control. Same with SIT, and how we have control over the on/off switch and the silent/out-loud switch.
You're presenting something different than point blank writing.
Go to Leviticus and Numbers. The Law was important. They were written point blank, no room for guessing what they mean.
Now go to SIT. Everything the Ministry claims come from sources other than direct statements. As I said, if SIT were so important why isn't anything direct written about it?
One item that pops up is "The spirits of the prophets are subject unto the prophets."
That shows who has control of the when to do it: the prophets have the control. Same with SIT, and how we have control over the on/off switch and the silent/out-loud switch.
Nothing in I Cor. 14 even suggests on/off or volume control. You’re making up bull-Shonta.
Corinthians 14 is merely saying the believers won’t lose control of themselves like how they may have seen in pagan ecstasy rituals
I thought Jesus didn't have holy spirit. That's why Pentecost was so important. That having holy spirit was something the Jews didn't have. That's the distinguishing feature of those in the family or household. That's how we are to do the greater works.
I could be misremembering.
I don’t know - you got me there…averse came to mind God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself…also in Matt 4 and Luke 4 it speaks of Jesus being led by the Spirit into the wilderness-and after that He reads the scroll of Isaiah- the Spirit of the Lord is upon me
I don’t know - you got me there…averse came to mind God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself…also in Matt 4 and Luke 4 it speaks of Jesus being led by the Spirit into the wilderness-and after that He reads the scroll of Isaiah- the Spirit of the Lord is upon me
Maybe that was it. The distinction of on vs in. Jesus had spirit on him but not in him? So much bullshonta... so much... it's hard to keep track.
Anyway, Jesus is absent now. So, there's that. And God has his binoculars, so He can see us from a great distance. So, there's that, too. So much to be grateful for.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
330
267
271
186
Popular Days
Nov 12
118
Nov 13
107
Nov 20
105
Nov 9
104
Top Posters In This Topic
Mike 330 posts
T-Bone 267 posts
OldSkool 271 posts
Nathan_Jr 186 posts
Popular Days
Nov 12 2022
118 posts
Nov 13 2022
107 posts
Nov 20 2022
105 posts
Nov 9 2022
104 posts
Popular Posts
OldSkool
I do want to address this Mike. You constantly come at me like I have forgotten, or have been talked out of the truth of wierwille, or that I just don't understand where you are coming from. Personall
waysider
This right here. If you're unable to define and regulate your control factors and variables, your research is worthless. The best you could hope for would be an observational analysis of your collecte
Charity
I agree with So_Crates when he said "Here's a wild idea: why don't YOU become meek and I'll tell you about all the fruit in my life since I stopped making PLAF the center of my life." There have
Posted Images
Rocky
Then there's the question of who's responsible for that which one feeds one's mind (brain).
If Mike's right, how many incarcerated humans in how many countries are no longer responsible for what they did? See my comment above about mens rea.
Mike is FULL of bullshonta.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
You know instead of cracking RHST you could always get a copy of JE Stiles book and read it in the original.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I myself am hearing the sound of a rushing mighty wind in this thread.
And the wind cries Bullshonta.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Yeah...like your bullshonta!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Receive-Holy-Spirit-How-ebook/dp/B00IQFBMTE/
https://www.amazon.com/gift-Holy-Spirit-Jack-Stiles/dp/0800704789/
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
Gene-yuse!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Uh-oh
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
If I remember correctly the part about breathing in was in Matthew.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Ok. Great. Thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rocky
I respect these people, historians and other academics, FAR more than Bullshonta Mike, on topics related to this thread.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Maybe it was in John? I'm not finding it in Matthew. I wish Mike could remember.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
It appears Mike is not willing to cooperate (he’s being his evasive best
) and since I’ve been reviewing both my RTHST and TNDC for several of my posts on the thread Why PFAL sucks, I can tell you right off the bat, wierwille beats around the bush in RTHST, he goes off on his stupid redefinitions of Greek words dechomai and lambano more than any details on HOW to speak in tongues.
However, in the green book, The New Dynamic Church, in chapter 10 How to Speak in Tongues on page 117 wierwille says in these excerpts:
Have you ever thought through the mechanics of speech? You with your own vocal organs have to do the speaking. The same mechanics that are involved in speaking English or any other known language are involved in speaking in tongues…
…The only difference between speaking in tongues and speaking in English is that when I say, “I love the Lord Jesus Christ,” I have to think. When I speak in tongues I do not think the words I speak. God gives the words to my spirit, and I formulate them on my lips. I do not think the words, but they are there when I move my lips, my throat, my tongue.
End of excerpts
~ ~ ~ ~
My critique of wierwille’s above instructions involves my recent post in the thread Why PFAL sucks - here
97. wierwille’s tendency to particularize the nebulous, the mysterious, the unknowable, and the incomprehensible
wierwille’s description of the mechanics and process of speaking in tongues is typical of his affinity to delineate the inexplicable. Although he's actually just describing the mechanics of speech - a student's imagination can assume God is supplying the words.
He is describing very fine motor skills that any adult who speaks a language is very familiar with. Read the hyperlinks I have below. The trick that wierwille pulls on students is to get them to loosen up on inhibitions. Once a person gets over the fear of making a fool of themself – it’s easy to speak gibberish in front of others. Just use all the parts of speech you use when speaking in your language - except don't think about the sounds you are making...in high school I use to be good at mimicking Russian and Chinese - and my friends said it sounded real.
One must still engage the brain to think of how to form the lips, tongue, how much to open or close the vocal folds, etc. – if the vocal folds close completely – air cannot pass through. This is called a glottal stop. Many languages utilize the glottal stop to produce consonant sounds.
The most basic principle of speech production is that all sounds are produced by moving air. Air moves from the lungs to the mouth via the throat. The vocal folds (or vocal cords) vibrate as needed. (More on this below.) And then the articulators (mouth, lips, tongue, cheek, palate, etc.) shape specific sounds.
Why do we need to be taught how to speak in tongues? If it’s something of God – we shouldn’t have to be taught. It’s like wierwille’s bogus Great Principle – God who is Spirit, teaches His creation in you, which is now your spirit and blah dee blah blah…where is that stated in the Bible?
Neither Mike nor wierwille know what they’re talking about!
Read the hyperlinks I have below:
https://www.speechbuddy.com/blog/language-development/a-quick-primer-on-the-mechanics-of-speech/
https://prezi.com/p/ketszfrzz2ox/mechanic-and-process-of-speaking/
http://www.literary-articles.com/2012/03/mechanism-of-speech-process-and.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_skill
Organs of Speech – Literature and Humanities
Edited by T-Bonerevision
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Not just stupid - four-crucified stupid!
Do you know where in the Bible Jesus teaches how (H-O-W) to speak in tongues, as Mike claims?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Mike may be thinking of page 43 of RTHST, wierwille quotes John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost
I also remember - maybe in the class - reference to Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. and I think wierwille suggested it was the apostles breathing - but the text says the sound came from heaven.
in the Bible, there is an allusion to Spirit being like the wind...I think whoever "taught" wierwille may have fixated on the "breathed" and "wind" and assumed that was part of the "ritual" - just a guess
I do know for a fact wierwille was full of hot air
Edited by T-Bonefatal attempt at humor
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
According to victor, was this lower case holy spirit?
And what does this have to do with tongues?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
in the book wierwille has written receive [lambano] ye the Holy Ghost [pneuma hagion] - in his explanation wierwille handles it as lower case - holy spirit
what does that have to do with tongues? nothing!
here's a visual aid that might help you differentiate between Big Ghost and little ghost
Edited by T-Bonerevision
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
I apologize for the delay: my tablet's battery died.
You're right. It's in John. John 20:22 to be exact.
It only says Jesus breathed in and said, "Receive the holy spirit." All the move your lips, your vocal cords were added by Saint Vic.
I find it very curious that for as important as Saint Vic claims SIT was God left no detailed instructions on how to do it. You'd think Paul would have wrote a paragraph or two at the very least.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mike
He wrote 3 chapters on it.
Edited by MikeOne item that pops up is "The spirits of the prophets are subject unto the prophets."
That shows who has control of the when to do it: the prophets have the control. Same with SIT, and how we have control over the on/off switch and the silent/out-loud switch.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
I thought Jesus didn't have holy spirit. That's why Pentecost was so important. That having holy spirit was something the Jews didn't have. That's the distinguishing feature of those in the family or household. That's how we are to do the greater works.
I could be misremembering.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
Saint Vic teaching about self-control is like Jeffry Dahmer teaching a cooking class.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
So_crates
You're presenting something different than point blank writing.
Go to Leviticus and Numbers. The Law was important. They were written point blank, no room for guessing what they mean.
Now go to SIT. Everything the Ministry claims come from sources other than direct statements. As I said, if SIT were so important why isn't anything direct written about it?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
Nothing in I Cor. 14 even suggests on/off or volume control. You’re making up bull-Shonta.
Corinthians 14 is merely saying the believers won’t lose control of themselves like how they may have seen in pagan ecstasy rituals
Edited by T-BoneRevision
Link to comment
Share on other sites
T-Bone
I don’t know - you got me there…averse came to mind God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself…also in Matt 4 and Luke 4 it speaks of Jesus being led by the Spirit into the wilderness-and after that He reads the scroll of Isaiah- the Spirit of the Lord is upon me
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Nathan_Jr
Maybe that was it. The distinction of on vs in. Jesus had spirit on him but not in him? So much bullshonta... so much... it's hard to keep track.
Anyway, Jesus is absent now. So, there's that. And God has his binoculars, so He can see us from a great distance. So, there's that, too. So much to be grateful for.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.