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Time to come home? Postcard


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On 1/20/2023 at 10:28 PM, fredgrant said:

Told i was only welcome under certain conditions and requirements that i will not attempt to specifically recollect here.   No doubt this specific type of situation has been recounted liberally across this site. Though painful and confusing and heart rending at the time, i now see it for the blessing in disguise it was. I truly loved so much about my time with twi, so many of the people, so much of the teaching. How the hell did it turn out to be so rotten inside?!! Love and compassion for people took second, third, or fourth place too often i see now. I hope things have changed, but i don't feel the need or desire to go find out.

*********

15 hours ago, chockfull said:

There is a whole myriad of tactics that they use that you probably are not going to hear all of the exact details on because they attack the moral character of the person for their purposes.  There are some stories of some of them around here.  For every one that is told I probably know about 5 more that are not told.

Banning people from fellowship is one of them.  Telling lies to the followers about them that are vague enough to avoid legal charges is another tactic.  Calling them possessed is a real easy one.  Then people are visibly afraid when you encounter them in a grocery store.  F ing with marriages is a real common tactic I know of several couple divorced remarried and gone back thru the Corps.  
 

I know all the salacious details are real interesting to know about.  But I can’t even begin to describe all the bs Machiavellian bs I have observed first and second hand.  

 

One could write a thesis paper on twi's tactics.  I always find it interesting to study wierwille and the timeline of twi's "explosion of growth" between the years 1973-1980.  As wierwille accumulated power and control over others, his tactics were tethered to two uncompromising positions: 1) the pfal class, and 2) the way corps program.

Claiming spiritual authority from God, wierwille was relentless in subjugating his followers with tactics that can easily be categorized as emotional, psychological and spiritual abuse.  Some cult experts have labeled these tactics as total thought reform of the individual.  Wierwille spent years traveling the highways teaching a plagiarized version of pfal [stolen from Bullinger] trying to convert and recruit church people to join his ministry.  It wasn't until he locked into "Family Camps" and targeting the youth that gave his efforts momentum that unleashed the 1970's decade of control.

In studying these tactics, one can easily identify wierwille's narcissistic methods that are found in cult leaders the world over.

  • Established spiritual authority.... called of God to lead others to enlightened truths.
  • Build a framework of stair-climbing steps to attain this enlightened status.
  • Isolation of the group from the evil, outside world.  Us versus them.
  • Allow enablers into the inner-circle.  These "yes-men" will protect your flank.
  • Travel with an entourage.  It exudes an elevated level of importance and authority.
  • A series of purges.  Keep people off-balance and second-guessing themselves.

.......

  • Load the language with words and phrases that only insiders understand.
  • Anyone who bucks authority must be shunned and/or purged.
  • Public character assassinations of one's reputation is a powerful weapon.
  • Labeling one "possessed" scares the bejesus out of followers.  Keeps them in line.
  • Move in herds.  Keep people in groupthink mode, no room for individualism.

.......

  • Demand the tithe/abs to be in fellowship with God.  Keep followers in meager, dependent state.
  • Establish an outreach program that is "reaching the world with God's Word."
  • Again, load the language making God's Word synonymous with pfal.
  • Build the perception that hq is *home* further breaking ties with parents, family.
  • Annual pilgrimage to hq's rock of ages is demanded.  Strengthening bond.

.......

  • Establish a two-tier spiritual authority structure.  Way Corps are your "spiritual leaders."
  • It's all a ruse.....because corps are NOT leaders, they're sycophant followers (suck-ups).
  • Corps were subjected Stockholm Syndrome tactics and abuse others when given chance.
  • Everything in twi became a herd-fest.  Major events were an exercise of control.
  • As followers grew older, married, had kids and responsibilities....reality broke these tactics.

.......

  • Wierwille was infuriated that "his kids" were abandoning ship....thus, the corps letters.
  • By hiding behind a cover of false humility (woe is me).... vpw was a huckster to the end.
  • Not once, did I ever see wierwille do a "God-revelation" act to benefit the people.
  • Hiding in the shadows, he built his mystique with enablers who amplified "his greatness."
  • In the light of day, wierwille was nothing more than a country-bum fraudster.

.......

  • In the end, his "kingdom" came crashing to the ground for everyone to see.
  • Rival opportunists have been trying to mimic his tactics ever since.
  • Irony of ironies that Mrs. Wierwille's book exposes vp's serial plagiarism and tactics.
  • Twi continues its grip on the millions that were accumulated in the 70s.
  • Only by isolating itself can twi continue to lay claim to its self-referential "greatness."

.......

Peace to all who find the exit doors.

 

 

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7 hours ago, skyrider said:

*********

 

One could write a thesis paper on twi's tactics.  I always find it interesting to study wierwille and the timeline of twi's "explosion of growth" between the years 1973-1980.  As wierwille accumulated power and control over others, his tactics were tethered to two uncompromising positions: 1) the pfal class, and 2) the way corps program.

Claiming spiritual authority from God, wierwille was relentless in subjugating his followers with tactics that can easily be categorized as emotional, psychological and spiritual abuse.  Some cult experts have labeled these tactics as total thought reform of the individual.  Wierwille spent years traveling the highways teaching a plagiarized version of pfal [stolen from Bullinger] trying to convert and recruit church people to join his ministry.  It wasn't until he locked into "Family Camps" and targeting the youth that gave his efforts momentum that unleashed the 1970's decade of control.

In studying these tactics, one can easily identify wierwille's narcissistic methods that are found in cult leaders the world over.

  • Established spiritual authority.... called of God to lead others to enlightened truths.
  • Build a framework of stair-climbing steps to attain this enlightened status.
  • Isolation of the group from the evil, outside world.  Us versus them.
  • Allow enablers into the inner-circle.  These "yes-men" will protect your flank.
  • Travel with an entourage.  It exudes an elevated level of importance and authority.
  • A series of purges.  Keep people off-balance and second-guessing themselves.

.......

  • Load the language with words and phrases that only insiders understand.
  • Anyone who bucks authority must be shunned and/or purged.
  • Public character assassinations of one's reputation is a powerful weapon.
  • Labeling one "possessed" scares the bejesus out of followers.  Keeps them in line.
  • Move in herds.  Keep people in groupthink mode, no room for individualism.

.......

  • Demand the tithe/abs to be in fellowship with God.  Keep followers in meager, dependent state.
  • Establish an outreach program that is "reaching the world with God's Word."
  • Again, load the language making God's Word synonymous with pfal.
  • Build the perception that hq is *home* further breaking ties with parents, family.
  • Annual pilgrimage to hq's rock of ages is demanded.  Strengthening bond.

.......

  • Establish a two-tier spiritual authority structure.  Way Corps are your "spiritual leaders."
  • It's all a ruse.....because corps are NOT leaders, they're sycophant followers (suck-ups).
  • Corps were subjected Stockholm Syndrome tactics and abuse others when given chance.
  • Everything in twi became a herd-fest.  Major events were an exercise of control.
  • As followers grew older, married, had kids and responsibilities....reality broke these tactics.

.......

  • Wierwille was infuriated that "his kids" were abandoning ship....thus, the corps letters.
  • By hiding behind a cover of false humility (woe is me).... vpw was a huckster to the end.
  • Not once, did I ever see wierwille do a "God-revelation" act to benefit the people.
  • Hiding in the shadows, he built his mystique with enablers who amplified "his greatness."
  • In the light of day, wierwille was nothing more than a country-bum fraudster.

.......

  • In the end, his "kingdom" came crashing to the ground for everyone to see.
  • Rival opportunists have been trying to mimic his tactics ever since.
  • Irony of ironies that Mrs. Wierwille's book exposes vp's serial plagiarism and tactics.
  • Twi continues its grip on the millions that were accumulated in the 70s.
  • Only by isolating itself can twi continue to lay claim to its self-referential "greatness."

.......

Peace to all who find the exit doors.

 

 

 

The more I consider these myriad of tactics, the more examples come to mind.  Understandably, the more one is isolated and immersed in this realm of control.... the higher the levels of abuse.

That's why the corps program was the ultimate stronghold wierwille utilized to attain his narcissistic power and control over others.  Everything about the corps program gave wierwille and corps coordinators access to twist and mold young minds.

  1. When you signed on the line to "be corps"... you entered the door of bait-and-switch.
  2. Generic terminology of the corps commitment was an accelerated *mission creep* bonanza.
  3. Young, committed minds surrounded by cunning leaders and peers was pressurized.
  4. Those who fell short were publically castigated for all to witness.
  5. The cult held absolute control over the daily schedule and could change it at any time.
  6. Keeping corps off-balance stripped individuals from any control over their daily lives or future.
  7. Edgy and dangerous exercises.... colon cleanse, hitch-hiking at dark, safety at work projects.
  8. Death came early for some....even then, wierwille did not adjust or change course.
  9. Some young corps girls were selected for wierwille's sexual delight and predatory nature.
  10. Resistance to wierwille's "advances" was enough to give her the bum's rush off twi-property.
  11. Corps were disposable.  Dreams of "serving God" were dashed by one act of disobedience.
  12. Isolation, immersion, idolization breeds a world of absolute control over others.
  13. Twisted teachings like "the lock box" and "salt covenants" were weapons of control.
  14. Corps were used as slave-labor at Camp Gunnison and Tinney, New Mexico (and roa).
  15. L.E.A.D. replaced T.F.I. in California.  Wierwille stripped John Svmmerville of his authority.
  16. Purging those who challenged vpw was evident throughout twi's history.
  17. Wierwille did NOT lead by example.... he flaunted his position to smoke and drink at will.
  18. By 1977, 1978.... dozens of elder corps were moving towards the exit doors.
  19. What's a cult leader to do?  Change? LOL.  Nope, move younger guys into those vacated positions.
  20. Damage control, damage control.  Twi was a one-trick pony.
  21. Decades of carnival tactics for 8 years (1973-1981) of power and control.
  22. Even when transitioning to lcm and stepping down (1981).....wierwille detested giving away power.
  23. Wierwille wanted his son, Don, to lead the ministry.... but Don's teaching prowess was lame.
  24. So, martindale was chosen because he ALWAYS obeyed wierwille.  Nothing about being God's servant.
  25. Twi was built on a man of the flesh and remains ungodly to this day.

 

 

Edited by skyrider
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7 hours ago, skyrider said:

surrounded by cunning leaders

I don't think they were cunning, most of them.  I think they too were brainwashed.  Had learned sychophantic and spying techniques.  Definitely learned "reporting back" and if instructed, harassing or threatenig perceived offenders.

But weren't cunning as such.  

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2 hours ago, Twinky said:

I don't think they were cunning, most of them.  I think they too were brainwashed.  Had learned sychophantic and spying techniques.  Definitely learned "reporting back" and if instructed, harassing or threatenig perceived offenders.

But weren't cunning as such.  

By brainwashed you mean?

Idealistic driven and drawn to utopian imagery?

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On 1/15/2023 at 11:54 AM, oldiesman said:

Got one in yesterday's mail:

 

20230115_114846.jpg

 

Twi is nothing but a one-trick pony. 

When I look at this postcard there are several things that jump out at me....

  1. Why is it time to come home?  Impersonal and presumptuous..... they have NO IDEA where my life is today.  What is the benefit for me at this time?  Once again, it reeks of a self-serving agenda to attract those who'd already had their minds grooved with cult-indoctrination rather than go out and find NEW PEOPLE.  Plus, the non-subtle agenda of desperation attempts to increase revenue flow.
  2. Maybe they consider it "home"..... but I don't.  That type of juvenile loaded-language has long lost its appeal.  Wierwille used these types of deception when he referenced "Uncle Harry."  Old man Harry was NOT my uncle.... nor was I one of wierwille's "corps kids."  With attained critical thinking skills, these tricks of deception NO LONGER WORK.
  3. Is this picture of wierwille's burial site supposed to trigger nostalgic memories?  Again, this is such juvenile marketing 101 that tells us more about them than they realize.  Whether its been 10, 20 or 30 years since exiting that place.... most all have discarded memories and trashed those books from that abusive cult.  In fact, I would wager that most have connected the dots to see how wierwille/twi conned them into years of indentured servitude.
  4. And further, doesn't every corporation have a burial site to showcase their product?  Knowing what I know today about signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder ... wierwille was a prime example.  Was he so consumed with this disorder that he perceived himself as some "Egyptian Pharoah" entombed *front-and-center* at the entrance of twi-property for ALL TO SEE?  Was he expecting his legacy to pass from generation to generation?  Yes.
  5. This postcard reeks of deception, manipulation and exploitation.... just like wierwille's tactics and policies.  Donna and Rosalie are simply running on the railroad tracks that brought twi to this point in time.  It's just the latest form of redux manipulation sent to those who might fall for it.

 

P.S.  This tactic is similar to wierwille's corps letters.

 

.

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Here we go Corps their latest idea.  Scripture reference Ruth.  Dispensation OT.  Context - land baron survival.  Message - stick to the people in the ministry that “taught you the Word”.

Ignore context, truth, and present some guilt tripping.  

No it is not a calling initiated by God it is a program run by man.  And by the numbers a largely unsuccessful program as well over 95% of the people who have gone through it no longer support or endorse it.

It is a means to use emotional bribery and sketchy Biblical research methods to try and produce some kind of emotional hype.

Maybe the guy producing it is secretly not so excited about not having any education in the area he is serving.  

Look buying into hogwash and running off a cliff like a lemming has nothing to do with God or Jesus Christ.  But it does have to do with how important that position you are in is.

To clarify God Christ and His Word is worthy of dedication.  
 

“The ministry that taught you the Word”.

Now wait a second I thought the Word interprets itself.  So at best you “gave people keys” not “taught them the Word” right?

Oh but those minor details mean nothing when vying for someone’s whole life.

What an entitled piece of garbage.  The discipline in my life is to identify the error in your doctrine.   Not to sluff off true research for a nostalgic feeling and run on a hamster wheel as an indentured servant magnifying those at the top of the cult not Christ.

Edited by chockfull
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32 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Here we go Corps their latest idea.  Scripture reference Ruth.  Dispensation OT.  Context - land baron survival.  Message - stick to the people in the ministry that “taught you the Word”.

.....[Edited out the slimy video referencing Ruth]

Ignore context, truth, and present some guilt tripping.  

No it is not a calling initiated by God it is a program run by man.  And by the numbers a largely unsuccessful program as well over 95% of the people who have gone through it no longer support or endorse it.

.....

 

Could it be that twi initiates these little side-projects to keep the indentured servants busy?  Maybe this has to do more with keeping them busy than some outreach effort?  As the numbers crater in outreach and programs...AND....staffers quit to find better employment, what is there to do all day?  

Donna and Rosalie are boxed in a corner.  They see the pathetic numbers.  Twi has no life left in its bones, so staffers are assigned to projects much like an institutional setting.... a mental ward or retirement setting.

 

 

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Cringe worthy to say the least. These yay-hoos are still running saying "Its not about you". When I was in-residence, they were saying that stuff to the point we were repeating that mantra as "its not about me"......what in the actual eff does that mean anyway....egads....

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1 hour ago, OldSkool said:

Cringe worthy to say the least. These yay-hoos are still running saying "Its not about you". When I was in-residence, they were saying that stuff to the point we were repeating that mantra as "its not about me"......what in the actual eff does that mean anyway....egads....

“So the ministry is not blamed”

Famous quote as they are in the act of committing atrocities.

Funny the same logic is used to cover up horrific crimes.  So the criminal doesn’t face blame for his acts.

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9 hours ago, chockfull said:

“So the ministry is not blamed”

Famous quote as they are in the act of committing atrocities.

Funny the same logic is used to cover up horrific crimes.  So the criminal doesn’t face blame for his acts.

Forgive me if Im a little slow trying to rub a couple braincells together to understand...can you elaborate a little? Thx!

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2 minutes ago, OldSkool said:

Forgive me if Im a little slow trying to rub a couple braincells together to understand...can you elaborate a little? Thx!

Sure 2 Corinthians 6:3b part is quoted as support for many decisions and as motivation for pretty much any act of higher leaders.  They explain away any illegal or immoral act with the excuse that they are protecting gawds ministry.

Especially whitewash types of decisions.  Or hiding other things that would not have good public optics.

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22 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Sure 2 Corinthians 6:3b part is quoted as support for many decisions and as motivation for pretty much any act of higher leaders.  They explain away any illegal or immoral act with the excuse that they are protecting gawds ministry.

Especially whitewash types of decisions.  Or hiding other things that would not have good public optics.

Gotcha!

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Perhaps I underestimated TWI.

In the 1970s, Wierwille/twi looked to college educated way corps(e) volunteers to adapt HQ to business model operations, albeit immensely more primitive than businesses exist today.

With the emergence of the postcard stunt, it now occurs to me (not altogether without suggestions from Bolshevik and maybe one or two others on this thread) how twi may, in fact, be updating its innovation (with the retirement of RFR?) by way of younger college educated (not necessarily limited to twi retained lawyers) people.

Data science is a neo-nascent academic field as I understand it. I graduated from college 37 years ago. Data processing was important then. However, for business enterprises (and twi IS a business enterprise even though it might be/likely is organized as a nonprofit business)

 

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At any moment, roughly a million people are reclining in comfortable chairs thousands of miles above the surface of the planet. Such has been the success of commercial flight. It was not long ago that traveling through the sky was an unthinkably rare and risky adventure. Now it hardly lifts an eyebrow: we board like sleepwalkers, only becoming energized if something gets in the way of our expectation of delicious meals, reclining seats and streaming movies.

Eagleman, David; Brandt, Anthony. The Runaway Species (p. 16). Catapult. Kindle Edition. 

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Quote

 

The new rapidly evolves into the normal.

Eagleman, David; Brandt, Anthony. The Runaway Species (p. 16). Catapult. Kindle Edition. 

 

However, this innovative idea (don't forget last year's idea of a revamped/rehashed music festival for young people) is nothing to shake a stick at.

Failure ALSO is necessary for learning.

They'll learn things from the postcard experiment.

BUT... they are likely to get stuck when they decline to innovate the organization's approach to God. They likely hold dear the verse in Hebrews which tells them Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.

Yet, is the Jesus taught by Wierwille and Martindale the same Jesus of the bible?

I remember Loy asking that very question, as if he and twi were the ones who had it right.

Put another way, if twi doesn't go beyond the "research" and private interpretation of Wierwille, it just may not matter how much organizational learning or innovation they do.

Quote

 

... a phenomenon known as repetition suppression. When your brain gets used to something, it displays less and less of a response each time it sees it. Imagine, for example, that you come across a new object – say, a self-driving car. The first time you see it, your brain shows a large response. It’s absorbing something new and registering it. The second time you see it, your brain shows slightly less response. It doesn’t care quite as much about it, because it’s not quite as novel. The third time: less response again. The fourth time: even less.

Eagleman, David; Brandt, Anthony. The Runaway Species (pp. 17-18). Catapult. Kindle Edition. 

 

Btw, has it occurred to anyone here on GSC (maybe it has) that despite Wierwille's attempt to link up HIS interpretation as being GOD's actual interpretation of the bible, he actually also declared it to be his, Victor's OWN interpretation, because nobody has had it right since the First Century? 

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On 1/23/2023 at 8:23 AM, skyrider said:

 

Twi is nothing but a one-trick pony. 

When I look at this postcard there are several things that jump out at me....

  1. Why is it time to come home?  Impersonal and presumptuous..... they have NO IDEA where my life is today.  What is the benefit for me at this time?  Once again, it reeks of a self-serving agenda to attract those who'd already had their minds grooved with cult-indoctrination rather than go out and find NEW PEOPLE.  Plus, the non-subtle agenda of desperation attempts to increase revenue flow.
  2. Maybe they consider it "home"..... but I don't.  That type of juvenile loaded-language has long lost its appeal.  Wierwille used these types of deception when he referenced "Uncle Harry."  Old man Harry was NOT my uncle.... nor was I one of wierwille's "corps kids."  With attained critical thinking skills, these tricks of deception NO LONGER WORK.
  3. Is this picture of wierwille's burial site supposed to trigger nostalgic memories?  Again, this is such juvenile marketing 101 that tells us more about them than they realize.  Whether its been 10, 20 or 30 years since exiting that place.... most all have discarded memories and trashed those books from that abusive cult.  In fact, I would wager that most have connected the dots to see how wierwille/twi conned them into years of indentured servitude.
  4. And further, doesn't every corporation have a burial site to showcase their product?  Knowing what I know today about signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder ... wierwille was a prime example.  Was he so consumed with this disorder that he perceived himself as some "Egyptian Pharoah" entombed *front-and-center* at the entrance of twi-property for ALL TO SEE?  Was he expecting his legacy to pass from generation to generation?  Yes.
  5. This postcard reeks of deception, manipulation and exploitation.... just like wierwille's tactics and policies.  Donna and Rosalie are simply running on the railroad tracks that brought twi to this point in time.  It's just the latest form of redux manipulation sent to those who might fall for it.

 

P.S.  This tactic is similar to wierwille's corps letters.

 

.

 

I just got off the phone with a friend.  In our talks, he asked me if I'd gotten this postcard from twi.  He and another corps grad in my city received this postcard a few weeks back.  Apparently, twi is targeting those who they think might be susceptible to nostalgic messaging to return to twi.

For the record, I never received this postcard.

Could it be that twi monitors GSC to see who the outspoken critics are.... and then, (obviously) does NOT send them this postcard knowing that it's not possible to seduce and deceive you or me, AGAIN?  In my opinion, yes... that's their deceptive marketing strategy.  

Those who have not done their due diligence in dismantling twi's deception and web of lies is STILL vulnerable to the cult's trappings.  Everything that upholds common sense, tells us that twi operates as a cult to instigate total thought reform of the individual.  Study Scientology and you'll see the same "steps to enlightenment," loaded language, isolation, destruction of the authentic-self, dependency, groupthink, totalitarian tactics, etc.

Seemingly, at this time twi has settled on using nostalgia as a weapon to entice.  What is left at The Way International that could possibly lure someone to "come back?"  The people, so-called leaders, "friends" and acquaintances have scattered to the winds.  Campuses sold off.  Programs altered.  An auditorium that can seat 1,440 has generally the first 5-6 rows on the main level occupied on any given regular STS.  Staff members who do their duties and quickly head back to their trailers after the meeting.  Everything reeks of a dying organization.

I am sometimes reminded of one of the final lines in the movie, The Devil's Advocate.... where the sleazy reporter says to Keanu Reeves, "Vanity.....gets them every time."  Could it be that vanity is used as a form of ju-jitsu to leverage one's past experiences with present common sense reality?  I mean, it's just nuts to even consider returning to the trappings of a cult.

 

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33 minutes ago, skyrider said:

I am sometimes reminded of one of the final lines in the movie, The Devil's Advocate.... where the sleazy reporter says to Keanu Reeves, "Vanity.....gets them every time."  Could it be that vanity is used as a form of ju-jitsu to leverage one's past experiences with present common sense reality?  I mean, it's just nuts to even consider returning to the trappings of a cult.

 

The vanity that I speak of is......one of self-importance belonging to this group.  IMO, we thought that we were special to adhering and promoting wierwille doctrine....ie "God's Word."  We were indoctrinated to think that we were "God's remnant, standing in the gap against the onslaughts of the devil."  And, corps grads clung to this "higher level of elitism" indoctrinated to believe that God had given them a specific calling to stand with wierwille and lead others.

For corps, this vanity was signed and sealed with a salt covenant.

As things spiraled downward, wierwille sent out his *corps letters* to guilt corps grads to stay true to their corps commitment.  Even with common sense and reality staring back, some corps felt (guilty) obligated to stand strong with wierwille doctrine long after the cult leader was dead.

 

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1 hour ago, skyrider said:

For the record, I never received this postcard.

Could it be that twi monitors GSC to see who the outspoken critics are.... and then, (obviously) does NOT send them this postcard knowing that it's not possible to seduce and deceive you or me, AGAIN?  In my opinion, yes... that's their deceptive marketing strategy.  

I feel this is correct. They have my current address because I recently ordered from the bookstore, and I was surprised they filled the order...I mean it took a month to process and said "On Hold" in the order status so Im thinking my order triggered director approval to fulfill. But no postcard...never not at all. My only contact with TWI since 2008 has been on GSC. I know the directors know who I am, I mean its kinda obvious. And I am absolutely sure that they have known since 2009 when I first started posting here. I used to work for Lind3r (wayGB) and he would print off new posts on GSC so rosalie could read them because she hated computers as we all know. So...yah...I wouldnt expect an invite any time soon..

:jump:

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Isn’t it time to dismantle the Way, for the leaders who want to truly serve Jesus Christ to go back to school under an accredited organizations oversight and complete education in their profession, and start a new church plant with others who never have had any association with the Way?

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According to a famous geopolitical analyst, Russia's time to strike was always now.

Because had they waited, there wouldn't be any people left to recruit.  

 

(TWI's numbers are going to plummet even more soon because nobody has eternal life . . . or they will be absent . . . or something)

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59 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Isn’t it time to dismantle the Way, for the leaders who want to truly serve Jesus Christ to go back to school under an accredited organizations oversight and complete education in their profession, and start a new church plant with others who never have had any association with the Way?


Nothing shouts FAILURE more than building an auditorium with an orchestra pit, deluxe rehearsal room, a/v sound room, 1,440 seating capacity…… and very few people, besides staff, show up.

So much for that “spiritual perception and awareness” let alone the “higher powers of the church” (ie wierwille) receiving any type of guidance or revelation.  

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6 hours ago, skyrider said:

Dismal outreach with high overhead costs.

  • An auditorium with few “paying customers”
  • Camp Gunnison that sits empty 8 months out of the year 
  • Programs with minuscule attendees

Resulting in ……. Sending out cheap postcards.  LOL

I think with their postcard they can consider me already home.  In absentia.  You know like the absent Christ?

If my Lord and Savior can be absent then I can certainly follow in his footsteps.

:biglaugh:

Actually I can respond to the lack of a postal card here.

Time to come home?

No - signed Balaams @$$

Edited by chockfull
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