Research Department

[Charity]

On 1/21/2023 at 9:59 PM, Mike said:

It all depends on what the goal of the research is.

(A) If the goal is to FIND truths not yet known, using only methods of the senses and logic, then the known manuscripts must be recognized as the only evidence available to work with. Everything must be built on that known evidence.

(B) If the goal is to VERIFY truths already known spiritually, then unknown manuscripts may be sought in that verification.

Of course, method B is not recognized by academia at all.  The possibility of spiritually knowing anything like this is denied there totally. In other words the students of the Bible forbid the Author from giving revelation to explain the Bible.  They want to do it all themselves.

The fact that the devil was the one who cleverly obscured and scrambled the originals, does not daunt these academia students.  They think they can match wits with the devil and win.

*/*/*/*

In the early days of VPW's research he knew he had to start with senses approach, or method (A).  But God's assurance to him was that when he did his best and was getting stuck, the revelation would be there to get him over the hump. 

As time went by, it became useful to "prove" these little leaps of revelation to others to help them in their believing.  Occasionally finding a manuscript that verified what God had told him would make it easier to teach others.  It would also help VPW's believing for the next round of research.

There were a few other reasons for this kind of Verification Research being useful. 

Something to remember is this.  Finding a manuscript that verifies what VPW already had committed to DOES NOT PROVE that VPW was right in that prior commitment.   But it does help make it easier to believe. 

This is a VERY subtle point that few get.  

I pointed it out earlier here today in this thread.  

There are ALL KINDS of manuscripts out there and hardly any ways to figure out how valid each one is.  It is all guesswork.  Sometimes it can be a well educated piece of guesswork.  But without revelation, all Biblical research is really guesswork, especially when you factor in that the devil intelligently scrambled things for us.

 

Like the 1942 revelation vp said he received? 

[Bolshevik]

1 minute ago, T-Bone said:

Reminds me of something my Mom said

two wrongs don't make a right

Well I think Anthony Burgess's illustration of authoritarian rule showed a dystopia where harm came from above and below.  That type of control makes chaos.  Changing those in power, even a different party, changes nothing.  You can't force liberty on others.

"What I tried to do with bullets he accomplished with a song" - RRR (the movie)

Questions what Jesus was doing when turning the other cheek.  Made for a stronger statement on the cross.

 

[Bolshevik]

15 minutes ago, Mike said:

THANKS.

Yeah, it was 1949 politics that set up Hal Lindsey with his positive conspiracy theory and calendar for Christ's return.  The books' purpose being in the bookstore was to quash the Lindsey calendar which was screwing with peoples' heads.

The reason I am interested is I'm just trying to get the history details straight. 

Lots of people thought that it was anti-Semitism that those books were in there.  I heard that explanation I offered earlier just once and very long ago, and then never re-surfaced again.  It seemed to be forgotten.

 

Ambivalence 

That's the word I'm looking for.

[Mike]

9 minutes ago, Charity said:

Like the 1942 revelation vp said he received? 

Like THE 1942 Promise that I received countless blessings from, along with thousands of other people who are similarly thankful.

 

[Rocky]

Quote

The eight symptoms of groupthink include an illusion of invulnerability or of the inability to be wrong, the collective rationalization of the group’s decisions, an unquestioned belief in the morality of the group and its choices, stereotyping of the relevant opponents or out-group members, and the presence of “mindguards” who act as barriers to alternative or negative information, as well as self-censorship and an illusion of unanimity. Decision making affected by groupthink neglects possible alternatives and focuses on a narrow number of goals, ignoring the risks involved in a particular decision. It fails to seek out alternative information and is biased in its consideration of that which is available. Once rejected, alternatives are forgotten, and little attention is paid to contingency plans in case the preferred solution fails.

I've thought long and hard about the unquestioned belief in the fundamental morality of TWI. IMO, this is a question for cultural anthropologists. Raised in a culture/society which was overwhelmingly oriented to the Christian church, for many people (specifically ME), is why it took 12 years to be able to perceive the evil of the very concept of a fundamentalist Christian cult and TWI in particular.

I left twi when MANY PEOPLE left. That was one key for me. Popped the balloon of belonging to a biblical research, teaching and fellowship ministry. The other main issue for me was having my eyes opened to the depravity of the top dogs. Screw the lockbox, that concept itself IS evil. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Rocky

[So_crates]

59 minutes ago, Mike said:

Like THE 1942 Promise that I received countless blessings from, along with thousands of other people who are similarly thankful.

 

Again you speak in generalities, not in specifics. Countless  blessings? Thousands?

Okay, you're one. Meanwhile, I can show you 18,000 people the 1942 promise failed.

Edited January 24, 2023 by So_crates

[WordWolf]

2 hours ago, chockfull said:

I thought it was documented that he subscribed to some conspiracy theory newsletters that provided the source for many of these types of revelations and other recommendations.

You're referring to the John Birch Society.  Not only did he get their newsletter, he actually had a hotline put in so he could always phone up and get their latest nonsense 24/7.   (That was courtesy DWBH, who was on-grounds and knew about the line.)

[So_crates]

4 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

You're referring to the John Birch Society.  Not only did he get their newsletter, he actually had a hotline put in so he could always phone up and get their latest nonsense 24/7.   (That was courtesy DWBH, who was on-grounds and knew about the line.)

Like the pope had an aircraft carrier?

[WordWolf]

53 minutes ago, Mike said:

THANKS.

Yeah, it was 1949 politics that set up Hal Lindsey with his positive conspiracy theory and calendar for Christ's return.  The books' purpose being in the bookstore was to quash the Lindsey calendar which was screwing with peoples' heads.

The reason I am interested is I'm just trying to get the history details straight. 

Lots of people thought that it was anti-Semitism that those books were in there.  I heard that explanation I offered earlier just once and very long ago, and then never re-surfaced again.  It seemed to be forgotten.

If that had been the main reason the book was in the twi bookstore, we all would have heard of that as the reason.  We've all heard different accounts of some things due to official explanations being absent. In the case of anti-Semitism, that was pushed by the John Birch Society.  vpw had a hotline actually installed at hq so he could get the latest up-to-the-moment drivel, and he often listened to it shortly before stepping to the podium to teach.  So, no, Hal Lindsey wasn't the reason for the book, the JBS was.

[WordWolf]

Just now, So_crates said:

Like the pope had an aircraft carrier?

That type of nonsense, yes. In that particular case, that was in lcm's time. So, I'd expect lcm had been in the office, listening to the hotline, before "coming up" with that one.

[WordWolf]

40 minutes ago, Mike said:

Like THE 1942 Promise that I received countless blessings from, along with thousands of other people who are similarly thankful.

 

You believe you received "countless blessings" in twi, therefore you believe that that could ONLY be a consequence if vpw actually heard from God in 1942 with specifics that have been disproven.   There's some rather obvious flaws in your "logic", but if you refuse to examine it, you won't improve.

[Rocky]

1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

if you refuse to examine it, you won't improve.

Literal translation according to usage... "...since you refuse to examine it, you'll remain firmly encased in the quicksand of your minute and miniscule mental dungeon." Alas, Mike is hopeless.

How does he expend his mental energy? Hard to tell. 

As for me and my house... I look to the wisdom of Proverbs 2:1-5.

2 My son, if you accept my words
    and store up my commands within you,
2 turning your ear to wisdom
    and applying your heart to understanding—
3 indeed, if you call out for insight
    and cry aloud for understanding,
4 and if you look for it as for silver
    and search for it as for hidden treasure,
5 then you will understand the fear of the Lord
    and find the knowledge of God.

God inspires awe. Wierwille, OTOH, inspires nothing.

Imagine. Ponder. Consider. What images from the JWST inspire... far more than anything the guy Mike characterizes (as if he knows the heart and mind of GSC netizens) as the anti-hero.

Research THIS:

 

[chockfull]

8 hours ago, WordWolf said:

You're referring to the John Birch Society.  Not only did he get their newsletter, he actually had a hotline put in so he could always phone up and get their latest nonsense 24/7.   (That was courtesy DWBH, who was on-grounds and knew about the line.)

Yes this I believe is another homiletics tactic. The “shock jock”.  Made popular by Howard Stern.

Bring up wild and crazy claims about devilishness to distract from the lack of scholarship.

EX:  All denomination heads are seed of serpent.  The pope is seed of serpent.  See this crazy guy visiting speaking at lunch?  Oh we already told the audience he is seed of serpent.  

[chockfull]

8 hours ago, Mike said:

Like THE 1942 Promise that I received countless blessings from, along with thousands of other people who are similarly thankful.

 

Yes like all the broken women who were “healed” by the power of the Christ in you micro peen.

And all the Corps who questioned him and were labeled possessed.  And all the other many many groups who split off due to doctrine, evil acts, and the management of the group.

And his wife who after all the bad treatment and adultery said he was a mean man.

And his kids who are not even with the same ministry.

This “promise” was a mental dream of VPW.  It has many stories similar to the Mormon story and just as far fetched and ridiculous.

[waysider]

Yeah, but there were gas pumps and stuff so it has to be true...right?

[Rocky]

 

If the link is blocked, nevermind, it's just an image of Paine.

Edited January 24, 2023 by Rocky

[Rocky]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:30 PM, Mike said:

Like THE 1942 Promise that I received countless blessings from, along with thousands of other people who are similarly thankful.

 

 

[Nathan_Jr]

15 minutes ago, Rocky said:

 

Good one. I saw this one the other day. I follow this guy. 

[Rocky]

7 hours ago, Nathan_Jr said:

Good one. I saw this one the other day. I follow this guy. 

Have you read any of his books?

[outandabout]

I’m triggered.  

[Rocky]

9 hours ago, outandabout said:

I’m triggered.  

How so? Anything anyone here can do to help you get untriggered?

[Bolshevik]

2 minutes ago, Rocky said:

How so? Anything anyone here can do to help you get untriggered?

Research Compartment (-ilize)?

[Rocky]

1 minute ago, Bolshevik said:

Research Compartment (-ilize)?

Respectfully, my question was for OutandAbout.

[Nathan_Jr]

18 hours ago, Rocky said:

Have you read any of his books?

No. Didn't realize he was an author. I'll look for them.

[Rocky]

23 minutes ago, Nathan_Jr said:

No. Didn't realize he was an author. I'll look for them.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18668059-the-obstacle-is-the-way

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43582733-stillness-is-the-key

https://goodreads.com/book/show/27036528.Ego_Is_the_Enemy

He's written more than these three, but this trilogy are, IMO, the most significant.

Highly readable, not overly long or tedious.