Most of you folks post in response to me vast amounts of total garbage chaff which is disguised as humor.
If you're getting "garbage chaff" there's a reason. Maybe you should look into it. Hint: it's no to hide things from your read only audience.
30 minutes ago, Mike said:
This is an attempt to hide good things that I post from the "Read-Only" audience at home watching this Reality Show. This chaff attack strategy is a standard tactic when you have no serious response to offer.
If your read only audience is still with you after the assertation that the ministry didn't teach material abundance, well it says a lot about them. Many of those chaff attack posts, as you call them, rain brains. But then some people have umbrellas.
30 minutes ago, Mike said:
It would be easy as pie to make a text file of any page I post on, and color the chaff paragraphs in bold red fonts, or maybe shrink them way down to 2 point micro fonts.
Whatever floats your boat. That might be a great idea of what to do with some of those 75 paragraph post of yours. And what to do when you go off on tangents. Shrink the text down to 2 point.
30 minutes ago, Mike said:
Reading the thread and skipping the chaff would be easier and faster for anyone, and no content would be lost. Lost would be the failed attempts of wannabee stand-up comics.
The only wannabe stand up comc here is you.
30 minutes ago, Mike said:
Maybe we should make the GSC book formatted that way, but I don't really know how that would work in the screenplay.
Well, I don't do that either, and I don't condone others doing it.
You condone Saint Vic doing it.
5 minutes ago, Mike said:
What you describe could conceivably be done by revelation in rare cases, if God knew it would be good for the hearers.
Yah, sure robbing the poor would be good for the poor.
5 minutes ago, Mike said:
HOWEVER, I have to admit that like the scarcity of miracles, there was a scarcity of genuine revelation received by leadership as time went by. Most revelations were faked and carefully announced ONLY if there was no way to watch and see if it was accurate. No one ever got revelation on the horse races or lottery numbers that I heard of
Your out in left field. I'm speaking of the prosperity lie.
In Power For Abundant Living (PFAL), Wierwille said he saw unbelievers manifesting more abundance than the believers. Was he talking about spiritual abundance? If so, how was that possible?
In Power For Abundant Living (PFAL), Wierwille said he saw unbelievers manifesting more abundance than the believers. Was he talking about spiritual abundance? If so, how was that possible?
Dude ..your not supposed to think about that...now do 30 retemories...
1. Jesus gives "most religious leaders" the justification for the traditional lesson they when he says "You believe because you see. Blessed are those who do not see but believe." I would, of course, put a statement like that in a category similar to the "vaccine against the reason virus" that some religions have, discussed at length in another thread. When you think asking for evidence is an affront to Jesus, you are forced to conclude that believing without asking for evidence is somehow a virtue. It's not. But whatever.
Right. Either Jesus said this or the author of John put those words in Jesus's mouth to advance his own agenda/theology/narrative.
The lesson I take is clearly not the one the author of John intended, the lesson religious leaders feel justified to teach. Like I said, the author is positioning himself against Thomas, so he tells this story and puts those words in Jesus's mouth to bolster his position.
The words belief/believing/believe do not occur in the Gospel of Thomas. An observation I find interesting.
4 hours ago, Raf said:
More importantly,
2. This is actually another example of a story that defies credibility. Thomas doubts despite the testimony of his closest friends. Makes a spectacular demand of Jesus: I'm not gonna believe until he beats me at Tic-Tac-Toe. Jesus comes, lays down three x's and wins. And Matthew finds none of this worth mentioning. And Mark finds none of this worth mentioning. And Luke finds none of this worth mentioning. Only John, 60-some-odd years after the fact, thinks this might be a story worth preserving.
Yeah, no.
I mean, yeah, it's what the Bible says. But credible? No.
Yeah, John is obviously different from the synoptics. And only John has Jesus giving very long speeches. It seems unlikely to me, especially given the dating of John, that very long dialogues and soliloquies would have been recorded accurately, or recorded at all. If any sayings of Jesus were preserved by oral tradition, and then written down, the shorter sayings would be the most likely to endure, it seems to me.
None of this is to say that I don't find value in John's Gospel. And that value is not dependent on its historicity.
Do I find all of what is written in the Gospels to be credible? No. For me the value of Mythos transcends historical credibility.
Yeah, John is obviously different from the synoptics. And only John has Jesus giving very long speeches. It seems unlikely to me, especially given the dating of John, that very long dialogues and soliloquies would have been recorded accurately, or recorded at all. If any sayings of Jesus were preserved by oral tradition, and then written down, the shorter sayings would be the most likely to endure, it seems to me.
None of this is to say that I don't find value in John's Gospel. And that value is not dependent on its historicity.
Do I find all of what is written in the Gospels to be credible? No. For me value of Mythos transcends historical credibility.
HERE is an interesting look at the authorship of the Gospels.
If the ministry wasn't teaching material abundance, why the promise God would give us our heart's desire? I believe there was even a song about it from Pressed Down or Joyful Noise.
It is understood that FIRST we are to build our heart's desires according to His Word and will. If that is not understood, then we could have an idol as our heart's desire, and then wonder why God is not interested in helping us ruin ourselves.
The teaching John gives on this is:
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14,15)
It is understood that FIRST we are to build our heart's desires according to His Word and will. If that is not understood, then we could have an idol as our heart's desire, and then wonder why God is not interested in helping us ruin ourselves.
The teaching John gives on this is:
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14,15)
You mean like Saint Vic built his heart's desire according to the Word?
Saint Vic: Give me more money. Give me more women.
Is it any wonder the ministry is losing people? Saint Vic: You build your heart's desire according to God's Word; meanwhile I'll be building my heart's desire according to my word. My heart's desire? Money and women
learn why PARTICIPATING IN excellor session is DIFFERENT than
a teacher telling students beforehand what to expect in a excellor session
I see your point.
But I also see his apostles imitating him as he did whatever breathing her did.
They could also "rehearse" not rehearsing thing to say beforehand, and avoid pre-meditation.
Don't forget that Jesus sent out WoWs; twice I think. I also remember spirit upon being involved, healings, casting out devils, etc. That was another PARTICIPATORY part for the apostles and disciples.
You are just not using your whole brain in thinking this through; only to impede what I am saying.
It is understood that FIRST we are to build our heart's desires according to His Word and will. If that is not understood, then we could have an idol as our heart's desire, and then wonder why God is not interested in helping us ruin ourselves.
How does this explain what Wierwille said when he saw the unbelievers being more abundant than the believers?
Please do look up your transcript and while your at it show me where in the class it says PLAF is only for spiritual abundance and do it without retconning or spinning.
You are already forgetting that abundance to Jesus and to Ohio farmers in the Sixties meant having their needs met and something left over to give away. Just reminding.
God wants us to have both spiritual and material abundance. Not greed, but more than we need is fine.
Here is everything on the red drapes from the film class:
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Another promise in the Epistle of I John. Way in the back of your Bible. I John, the Epistle of I John, first-second--third John.
I John 5:14:
And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "it has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "may I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "you certainly may."
They made an appointment, she went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. Alright, she rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful.
*/*/*
VPW didn't think God was that big, and he didn't think the lady had a real need. But she knew, and she was specific, and got the red drapes. Not a spectacular abundance like on TV, but nice.
God was happy with the 1968 film class and unhappy with the planned replacement, and when VPW finally was able to hear that, he scrapped the original goal of PFAL'77.
On 4/29/2023 at 9:35 PM, T-Bone said:
How do you KNOW God was happy or unhappy?
Are you God's spokesperson?
VPW said it in the BRC basement that day in 1982, just before PFAL'77. I was there with at least 100 other people.
But I also see his apostles imitating him as he did whatever breathing her did.
They could also "rehearse" not rehearsing thing to say beforehand, and avoid pre-meditation.
Don't forget that Jesus sent out WoWs; twice I think. I also remember spirit upon being involved, healings, casting out devils, etc. That was another PARTICIPATORY part for the apostles and disciples.
You are just not using your whole brain in thinking this through; only to impede what I am saying.
realize you are interpreting Jesus' earthly ministry through the eyes of wierwille's fake ministry to mimic Jesus' ministry.
and Jesus Christ words and works authenticated His ministry.
The Holy Spirit authenticated the apostles words - both the words & works of Jesus, per what we find in the gospels - and what the apostles shared informally in their preaching and witnessing .
I don't understand this comment of yours: "You are just not using your whole brain in thinking this through; only to impede what I am saying." I did a lot more thinking through than you did - I went back and study the Bible especially NT in various translations and in the framework of various systematic theologies to get a better understanding of the Bible in its original languages and cultures.
you're telling me your cognitive dissonance along with your fervent adoration of a sin-loving cult-leader like wierwiile is a better method of interpretation? I beg to differ. I rejected that toxic nonsense years ago because it impeded the Holy Spirit working in my life - worshipping wierwille and PFAL obstructed me connecting with my living Lord & Savior Jesus Christ.
Go sell nonsense somewhere else ! I'm all stocked up at my house - I have one little isolated hermetically sealed and guarded with atomic powered lasers - like that little rat trap looking box in Ghostbusters - and there is where I store wierwille / PFAL nonsense - only as a reference when I quote from it on Grease Spot - although I could quote it all from my head - and then get challenged by psyco whack job wierwille fans who say I missed stuff.
You are already forgetting that abundance to Jesus and to Ohio farmers in the Sixties meant having their needs met and something left over to give away. Just reminding.
God wants us to have both spiritual and material abundance. Not greed, but more than we need is fine.
Here is everything on the red drapes from the film class:
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Another promise in the Epistle of I John. Way in the back of your Bible. I John, the Epistle of I John, first-second--third John.
I John 5:14:
And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "it has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "may I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "you certainly may."
They made an appointment, she went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. Alright, she rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful.
*/*/*
VPW didn't think God was that big, and he didn't think the lady had a real need. But she knew, and she was specific, and got the red drapes. Not a spectacular abundance like on TV, but nice.
And a material abundance which you keep denying the ministry taught.
So, if the ministry didn't hawk material abundance, what was the point of living "at need"? The point other than adding a few thousand a month to Saint Vic's coffers, that is.
Or does giving equals recieving mean something else too?
I am sure there were times when the ministry went into the error zone on hawking material abundance TV style, which is really greedy opulance, not simple abundance. The TVT's got pretty loaded by that in the 80s.
But that is not what the class and the collaterals teach.
I thought the red drapes story was meant to demonstrate the law of believing and the concept of needs and wants being parallel. So, now you're saying it was really about spiritual abundance? How does this relate to the unbelievers having more abundance than the believers? Curious minds would like to know.
I am sure there were times when the ministry went into the error zone on hawking material abundance TV style, which is really greedy opulance, not simple abundance. The TVT's got pretty loaded by that in the 80s.
But that is not what the class and the collaterals teach.
The point, which you insist on denying, is that they did teach it.
Also, how does this answer my "living at need" question?
HERE is an interesting look at the authorship of the Gospels.
A clear, concise, top-line summary. Well articulated and presented. I like this channel.
I'm familiar with all the data, though I am currently of the opinion GTh is earlier than stated here. No one knows for sure. I find the most academic arguments for any dating fascinating.
VPW said it in the BRC basement that day in 1982, just before PFAL'77. I was there with at least 100 other people.
VPW was God's spokesman at the time.
wow wee wow you STILL believe that horse-$hit ?!?!
Mike, you've got some big issues.
If wierwille was God's spokesman at the time - and I mean if that was undeniably confirmed by Jesus Christ coming back to earth - just for a few minutes to announce "Mike speaks the truth, wierwille was God's spokesman at the time." then I would absolutely renounce Christianity !!!! And go on the attack of Christianity big time - I will pick up the persecution of the church where Saul of Tarsas left off just before he was converted on the road to Damascus. I swear on my parents' grave!!!!!!
why?!?!?!
because Jesus Christ coming down to earth - where I see and hear and feel His awesome presence with my own rinky dink sinful body - and He fries my brain cells with the ultimate mind-fvck that the God whom I thought I served for some 69 years of my life is a hypocritical god. He demands I should not commit adultery, that I should not commit murder, that I should not steal or lie....Yet He uses wierwille the greatest hypocrite and wolf in sheep's clothing in all of TWI history to enforce the dpuble standard...naw homey don't play that.
I am sure there were times when the ministry went into the error zone on hawking material abundance TV style, which is really greedy opulance, not simple abundance. The TVT's got pretty loaded by that in the 80s.
But that is not what the class and the collaterals teach.
So you're trying to tell me Way Nash was just spreading TVTs when they had their employees work and live "at need" , right? I thought you said you worked in the AV department. And you didn't know this?
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chockfull
I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other
chockfull
The Corps is a necessary cult element providing free labor at the expense of volunteers lives. Any imagery like the Marines promotes extremist behavior. No other Christian seminary or school use
Nathan_Jr
"Teaching" Romans to the Corps, Q&A: LCM: How much does your behavior that people do not see influence your example to them? VPW: It doesn't, unless you believe it will. LCM: You u
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So_crates
And you're proving what a loser you really are.
If you're getting "garbage chaff" there's a reason. Maybe you should look into it. Hint: it's no to hide things from your read only audience.
If your read only audience is still with you after the assertation that the ministry didn't teach material abundance, well it says a lot about them. Many of those chaff attack posts, as you call them, rain brains. But then some people have umbrellas.
Whatever floats your boat. That might be a great idea of what to do with some of those 75 paragraph post of yours. And what to do when you go off on tangents. Shrink the text down to 2 point.
The only wannabe stand up comc here is you.
Huh?
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So_crates
You condone Saint Vic doing it.
Yah, sure robbing the poor would be good for the poor.
Your out in left field. I'm speaking of the prosperity lie.
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So_crates
Because you're attempting to excuse greedy behavior with it could happen to you it could happen to me.
You sure waste a lot of time making excuses for his bad behavior.
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waysider
In Power For Abundant Living (PFAL), Wierwille said he saw unbelievers manifesting more abundance than the believers. Was he talking about spiritual abundance? If so, how was that possible?
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OldSkool
Dude ..your not supposed to think about that...now do 30 retemories...
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Nathan_Jr
Right. Either Jesus said this or the author of John put those words in Jesus's mouth to advance his own agenda/theology/narrative.
The lesson I take is clearly not the one the author of John intended, the lesson religious leaders feel justified to teach. Like I said, the author is positioning himself against Thomas, so he tells this story and puts those words in Jesus's mouth to bolster his position.
The words belief/believing/believe do not occur in the Gospel of Thomas. An observation I find interesting.
Yeah, John is obviously different from the synoptics. And only John has Jesus giving very long speeches. It seems unlikely to me, especially given the dating of John, that very long dialogues and soliloquies would have been recorded accurately, or recorded at all. If any sayings of Jesus were preserved by oral tradition, and then written down, the shorter sayings would be the most likely to endure, it seems to me.
None of this is to say that I don't find value in John's Gospel. And that value is not dependent on its historicity.
Do I find all of what is written in the Gospels to be credible? No. For me the value of Mythos transcends historical credibility.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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waysider
HERE is an interesting look at the authorship of the Gospels.
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Mike
It is understood that FIRST we are to build our heart's desires according to His Word and will. If that is not understood, then we could have an idol as our heart's desire, and then wonder why God is not interested in helping us ruin ourselves.
The teaching John gives on this is:
"And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him." (1 John 5:14,15)
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So_crates
You mean like Saint Vic built his heart's desire according to the Word?
Saint Vic: Give me more money. Give me more women.
Is it any wonder the ministry is losing people? Saint Vic: You build your heart's desire according to God's Word; meanwhile I'll be building my heart's desire according to my word. My heart's desire? Money and women
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Mike
I see your point.
But I also see his apostles imitating him as he did whatever breathing her did.
They could also "rehearse" not rehearsing thing to say beforehand, and avoid pre-meditation.
Don't forget that Jesus sent out WoWs; twice I think. I also remember spirit upon being involved, healings, casting out devils, etc. That was another PARTICIPATORY part for the apostles and disciples.
You are just not using your whole brain in thinking this through; only to impede what I am saying.
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waysider
How does this explain what Wierwille said when he saw the unbelievers being more abundant than the believers?
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Mike
You are already forgetting that abundance to Jesus and to Ohio farmers in the Sixties meant having their needs met and something left over to give away. Just reminding.
God wants us to have both spiritual and material abundance. Not greed, but more than we need is fine.
Here is everything on the red drapes from the film class:
*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*/*
Another promise in the Epistle of I John. Way in the back of your Bible. I John, the Epistle of I John, first-second--third John.
I John 5:14:
And this is the confidence [this is the confidence] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, [if we ask any thing according to his will] he heareth us:
Isn't that wonderful? If we have our need and our want parallel we ask anything according to His will; how can it be His Will if we don't know His Word? His Word is His Will that gets our need and our want parallel. If we know His Word we can parallel it off. And once we get our need and want parallel, whatsoever we ask, we get.
Many years ago when I was first questing in the integrity and accuracy of God's Word and doing Biblical research, just starting in the field, there were some things in the Word of God that we believed and that we understood and were practicing in our prayer life. And we were really concerned about learning more about God's Word.
We had a letter from one of our radio audience from Cincinnati. And this good lady stipulated in that letter stating the following: she said, "now on Thursday night when you have your prayer group meeting and you meet with your people; I'd like for you to pray for an apartment for me. Because I have to find this apartment and I would like for this apartment to be within walking distance, two or three blocks from where I am employed." And she said, "it has to be a furnished apartment because I do not have my own furniture," and she said, "while your praying for this apartment within this area of where I am gainfully employed will you please ask God that in this furnished apartment there will be red drapes on the living room windows."
My, oh my. That shook me. I thought to myself well good lord, if I'm going to pray for her for an apartment and she gets that apartment she ought to be thankful. What difference does if make if its got pink drapes or yellow drapes or orange drapes on the living room window? But she had stipulated in her letter please pray that there be red drapes on the window.
Well I don't know who did the believing, I helped in the praying but I want to tell you something that night spiritually I hadn't gone this far; I believed for the apartment this I could believe for, it was a need I understood this. So I believed that she'd have an apartment but I can't imagine and I know that I did not believe anything about drapes at all.
But we prayed that evening and within fifteen minutes of the time when we had prayed for this situation this lady in Cincinnati many, many, many miles away had a telephone call from an entire stranger who said to her "a friend of yours told me that you have need of an apartment, is this right?" And she said, "yes." And she said, "well where's it located?" He said, "well such and such a place." Within two blocks of where she was employed. So she said to him, "may I come and see it in the morning?" He said, "you certainly may."
They made an appointment, she went next morning and looked at this apartment. And when she walked into the living room what do you think the color of those drapes were on those living room windows? Green, oh no they weren't. They were fire engine red. That's right.
People, she must have had her need and her want parallel. Look at this. Alright, she rented a furnished apartment and it had to have drapes on the window, right? Does it make God any difference whether the drapes are green or red or pink? No, but she had a need, that need was that they might as well have red drapes on, that's what she wanted. She got her need and her want parallel. She not only got that apartment but she got the red drapes on the windows.
You talk about the accuracy of God's Word when He said He'll supply all of our need according to His riches in glory. Doesn't say He'll supply our greed but He'll supply our need according to His riches in glory. That's true. It's wonderful.
*/*/*
VPW didn't think God was that big, and he didn't think the lady had a real need. But she knew, and she was specific, and got the red drapes. Not a spectacular abundance like on TV, but nice.
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Mike
VPW said it in the BRC basement that day in 1982, just before PFAL'77. I was there with at least 100 other people.
VPW was God's spokesman at the time.
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T-Bone
realize you are interpreting Jesus' earthly ministry through the eyes of wierwille's fake ministry to mimic Jesus' ministry.
and Jesus Christ words and works authenticated His ministry.
The Holy Spirit authenticated the apostles words - both the words & works of Jesus, per what we find in the gospels - and what the apostles shared informally in their preaching and witnessing .
I don't understand this comment of yours: "You are just not using your whole brain in thinking this through; only to impede what I am saying." I did a lot more thinking through than you did - I went back and study the Bible especially NT in various translations and in the framework of various systematic theologies to get a better understanding of the Bible in its original languages and cultures.
you're telling me your cognitive dissonance along with your fervent adoration of a sin-loving cult-leader like wierwiile is a better method of interpretation? I beg to differ. I rejected that toxic nonsense years ago because it impeded the Holy Spirit working in my life - worshipping wierwille and PFAL obstructed me connecting with my living Lord & Savior Jesus Christ.
Go sell nonsense somewhere else ! I'm all stocked up at my house - I have one little isolated hermetically sealed and guarded with atomic powered lasers - like that little rat trap looking box in Ghostbusters - and there is where I store wierwille / PFAL nonsense - only as a reference when I quote from it on Grease Spot - although I could quote it all from my head - and then get challenged by psyco whack job wierwille fans who say I missed stuff.
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So_crates
And a material abundance which you keep denying the ministry taught.
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Mike
I am sure there were times when the ministry went into the error zone on hawking material abundance TV style, which is really greedy opulance, not simple abundance. The TVT's got pretty loaded by that in the 80s.
But that is not what the class and the collaterals teach.
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waysider
I thought the red drapes story was meant to demonstrate the law of believing and the concept of needs and wants being parallel. So, now you're saying it was really about spiritual abundance? How does this relate to the unbelievers having more abundance than the believers? Curious minds would like to know.
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So_crates
The point, which you insist on denying, is that they did teach it.
Also, how does this answer my "living at need" question?
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waysider
Au contraire. Wierwille did, in fact, teach, in the class, that he saw unbelievers being more abundant than believers.
Edited by waysiderwording
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Nathan_Jr
A clear, concise, top-line summary. Well articulated and presented. I like this channel.
I'm familiar with all the data, though I am currently of the opinion GTh is earlier than stated here. No one knows for sure. I find the most academic arguments for any dating fascinating.
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T-Bone
wow wee wow you STILL believe that horse-$hit ?!?!
Mike, you've got some big issues.
If wierwille was God's spokesman at the time - and I mean if that was undeniably confirmed by Jesus Christ coming back to earth - just for a few minutes to announce "Mike speaks the truth, wierwille was God's spokesman at the time." then I would absolutely renounce Christianity !!!! And go on the attack of Christianity big time - I will pick up the persecution of the church where Saul of Tarsas left off just before he was converted on the road to Damascus. I swear on my parents' grave!!!!!!
why?!?!?!
because Jesus Christ coming down to earth - where I see and hear and feel His awesome presence with my own rinky dink sinful body - and He fries my brain cells with the ultimate mind-fvck that the God whom I thought I served for some 69 years of my life is a hypocritical god. He demands I should not commit adultery, that I should not commit murder, that I should not steal or lie....Yet He uses wierwille the greatest hypocrite and wolf in sheep's clothing in all of TWI history to enforce the dpuble standard...naw homey don't play that.
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So_crates
So you're trying to tell me Way Nash was just spreading TVTs when they had their employees work and live "at need" , right? I thought you said you worked in the AV department. And you didn't know this?
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Mike
To adjust dimming memories is one use.
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Nathan_Jr
What else can be said?
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