That’s from an old Popeye cartoon - he always said some funny stuff under his breath like People who have more birthdays live longer. I dressed it up to fit with your post.
i believe people who have more birthdays live longer than people who do not.
WOW T-Bone. You sound like a genius. Amazing! Maybe we even know where are physical heads are. With the help of two hands and arms. Certainly we at least know who are spiritual Head is. He is currently seated at the right hand of God, his Father by birth. Jesus Christ!
i believe people who have more birthdays live longer than people who do not.
17 hours ago, cman said:
lol.... good one T-Bone
16 hours ago, T-Bone said:
That’s from an old Popeye cartoon - he always said some funny stuff under his breath like People who have more birthdays live longer. I dressed it up to fit with your post.
12 hours ago, Mark Sanguinetti said:
WOW T-Bone. You sound like a genius. Amazing! Maybe we even know where are physical heads are. With the help of two hands and arms. Certainly we at least know who are spiritual Head is. He is currently seated at the right hand of God, his Father by birth. Jesus Christ!
Popeye the Sailor Man is a fictional cartoon character created by Elzie Crisler Segar. The character first appeared on January 17, 1929, in the daily King Features comic strip Thimble Theatre. The strip was in its tenth year when Popeye made his debut, but the one-eyed sailor quickly became the lead character, and Thimble Theatre became one of King Features' most popular properties during the 1930s. After Segar died in 1938, Thimble Theatre was continued by several writers and artists, most notably Segar's assistant Bud Sagendorf. It was formally renamed Popeye. The strip continues to appear in first-run instalments on Sundays, written and drawn by R.K. Milholland. The daily strips are reprints of old Sagendorf stories.
and that's the truth - I yam what I yam, I'm T-Bone the plagiarizing man
WOW T-Bone. You sound like a genius. Amazing! Maybe we even know where are physical heads are. With the help of two hands and arms. Certainly we at least know who are spiritual Head is. He is currently seated at the right hand of God, his Father by birth. Jesus Christ!
Certainly we at least know who are our spiritual Head is. He is currently seated at the right hand of God, his Father by birth and resurrection from the dead. Jesus Christ!
Just like I needed to edit my biblical teaching book. I need to edit my posts on Grease Spot Cafe. My goal is to be 100% truthful, but at least 99%.
What do you all think of wierwille’s explanation of Luke 23:43 ?
I’ve copied a few different versions and pasted below…it seems to me Jesus is reassuring the repentant criminal that he would be in paradise with Jesus that very day:
New International Version Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” English Standard Version And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
King James Bible And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
New American Standard Bible And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Amplified Bible Jesus said to him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Holman Christian Standard Bible And He said to him, “I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.”
What do you all think of wierwille’s explanation of Luke 23:43 ?
I’ve copied a few different versions and pasted below…it seems to me Jesus is reassuring the repentant criminal that he would be in paradise with Jesus that very day:
New International Version Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.” English Standard Version And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
King James Bible And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
New American Standard Bible And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Amplified Bible Jesus said to him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.” Holman Christian Standard Bible And He said to him, “I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.”
I think I made my position on this verse known in another thread. But I haven’t put forth an opinion either way on ADAN. I am only interested in what the text says. (It doesn’t always agree with itself. I’m ok with that.)
victor’s asserted opinion was incorrect. Look at the immediate and remote contexts. Look at precedents of speech “habit patterns.” When does Jesus, or anyone, tell their audience on the day they are speaking that it is, in fact, that very same day that they are speaking?
“This makes no sense,” Victor said anytime he needed to MAKE something FIT. But this time he corrupted the text by changing it wholesale. Hey! He had a private agenda to advance
Ask yourself if victor’s whimsical claim was intellectually honest, or was it cutting off fingers to make the hand fit the glove.
victor had his own private interpretive theology He had an organized religious opinion to protect. If a verse didn’t align with his imagination, he crossed it out, or else, he added punctuation.
The added comma is just that, added.
That’s my opinion on the text. I’m open to being wrong.
What do you all think of wierwille’s explanation of Luke 23:43 ?
O Yes, the infamous Luke 23:43. I never had a problem with it till pfal made it a problem child. Like much of the crap in pfal.
Revelation 12:5 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
The tree of life, guarded by the flaming sword that turns every way. Yes, every way, indeed!
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Simply, Jesus Christ in Luke 23:43 was acting as a loving psychiatrist for that person that day. This is one of the examples that Jesus Christ wanted to be helpful with all of humanity as long as they changed from bad to good. In using my biblical software program the Greek word for paradise is used 3 times in the New Testament. The Greek word for heaven is used 273 times in the New Testament.
Simply, Jesus Christ in Luke 23:43 was acting as a loving psychiatrist for that person that day. This is one of the examples that Jesus Christ wanted to be helpful with all of humanity as long as they changed from bad to good.
How does one act like a loving psychiatrist for a person? What do you mean?
Calling Jesus Christ a loving psychiatrist is figurative and not literal. Jesus Christ wanted to help the persons emotions before he died or passed away. Jesus Christ was and is very helpful for humanity even when or before he experienced much pain while perhaps being nailed to a cross and experiencing death. The cross needed to be attached to a tree otherwise it would have fallen.
Regarding the question, are the dead alive now? Mortal physical humanity dies or passes away. Just like physical animals die. A number of readable scriptures show that. However, regarding the gift of Holy Spirit which followers of Jesus Christ receive as a connection with God. The Holy Spirit does not die because it is simply spiritual from God, our heavenly Father. When followers of Christ die, the gift of Holy Spirit can go back to God the giver. What God uses it for is simply up to God. Our adopted heavenly Father can use this with the future coming of Christ when Christ's followers get a new spiritual body as explained in 1st Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
The Comfort of Christ's Coming 13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (NKJV)
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. (NIV)
You can easily navigate around Bible Hub website by clicking on tabs to read other versions, lexicons, interlinear, and yes, last but not least those infamous commentaries. To keep those annoying references to a minimum I decided to go with a word-specific textual font reduction.
I am going to copy and paste the NIV version here followed by a relevant excerpt from a study Bible.
What fascinated me the most was the stark contrast between wierwille’s approach and that of others ( I looked at several study Bibles and commentaries but kept my selection to just one study Bible) far more qualified and legitimate scholars.
wierwille’s obsessive / compulsive demonology fixation tinged many of his interpretations. wierwille’s egomania - excessive preoccupation with himself and his identity as the man of God teaching “The Word” to his followers - kept everyone on a short leash... wierwille prided himself on being the authority on God and the Bible – providing definitive answers on many topics. Whereas the commentaries and study Bibles that I looked at are more tentative in their explanation of what happened in I Samuel 28.
I Samuel 28
1In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, “You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army.”
2David said, “Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do.”
Achish replied, “Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life.”
3Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
“There is one in Endor,” they said.
8So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”
9But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”
10Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.”
11Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
“Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure a coming up out of the earth.”
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So, I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
16Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
20Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.
21When the woman came to Saul and saw that he was greatly shaken, she said, “Look, your servant has obeyed you. I took my life in my hands and did what you told me to do. 22Now please listen to your servant and let me give you some food so you may eat and have the strength to go on your way.”
But his men joined the woman in urging him, and he listened to them. He got up from the ground and sat on the couch.
24The woman had a fattened calf at the house, which she butchered at once. She took some flour, kneaded it and baked bread without yeast. 25Then she set it before Saul and his men, and they ate. That same night they got up and left.
A ghostly figure coming up out of the earth. Background information cannot resolve the many questions swirling around this event. Texts do not offer explanations of the phenomenon that was experienced in this necromancy, or how it may have differed from the norm…
...From a literary standpoint, there is no question that we should understand this as truly the spirit of Samuel, however phenomenologically problematic that conclusion might be. That in this instance Yahweh should deign to return Samuel from the grave – to the surprise of the woman and the dismay of Saul – in no way represents a validation either of the efficacy or the acceptability of necromancy.
Furthermore, it cannot be used to deduce revealed theology concerning the state of the dead or the nature of the soul since it may be an exceptional situation.
Amazing T-Bone! You found a web site that has much biblical study research. Even the Interlinear Bible with original Koine Greek words for the New Testament. For my biblical study research. I use a software program which I have on my 3 current primary computers, which has the same research and more. This program is called Biblesoft.
I just now remembered and saw that Charity posted links to that educational web site, Bible Hub on April 7th. Very good. Grade of "A", but God could give that web site a grade of "A+".
You can easily navigate around Bible Hub website by clicking on tabs to read other versions, lexicons, interlinear, and yes, last but not least those infamous commentaries. To keep those annoying references to a minimum I decided to go with a word-specific textual font reduction.
I am going to copy and paste the NIV version here followed by a relevant excerpt from a study Bible.
What fascinated me the most was the stark contrast between wierwille’s approach and that of others ( I looked at several study Bibles and commentaries but kept my selection to just one study Bible) far more qualified and legitimate scholars.
wierwille’s obsessive / compulsive demonology fixation tinged many of his interpretations. wierwille’s egomania - excessive preoccupation with himself and his identity as the man of God teaching “The Word” to his followers - kept everyone on a short leash... wierwille prided himself on being the authority on God and the Bible – providing definitive answers on many topics. Whereas the commentaries and study Bibles that I looked at are more tentative in their explanation of what happened in I Samuel 28.
I Samuel 28
1In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, “You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army.”
2David said, “Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do.”
Achish replied, “Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life.”
3Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
“There is one in Endor,” they said.
8So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”
9But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”
10Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.”
11Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
“Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure a coming up out of the earth.”
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So, I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
16Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
20Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.
21When the woman came to Saul and saw that he was greatly shaken, she said, “Look, your servant has obeyed you. I took my life in my hands and did what you told me to do. 22Now please listen to your servant and let me give you some food so you may eat and have the strength to go on your way.”
But his men joined the woman in urging him, and he listened to them. He got up from the ground and sat on the couch.
24The woman had a fattened calf at the house, which she butchered at once. She took some flour, kneaded it and baked bread without yeast. 25Then she set it before Saul and his men, and they ate. That same night they got up and left.
A ghostly figure coming up out of the earth. Background information cannot resolve the many questions swirling around this event. Texts do not offer explanations of the phenomenon that was experienced in this necromancy, or how it may have differed from the norm…
...From a literary standpoint, there is no question that we should understand this as truly the spirit of Samuel, however phenomenologically problematic that conclusion might be. That in this instance Yahweh should deign to return Samuel from the grave – to the surprise of the woman and the dismay of Saul – in no way represents a validation either of the efficacy or the acceptability of necromancy.
Furthermore, it cannot be used to deduce revealed theology concerning the state of the dead or the nature of the soul since it may be an exceptional situation.
End of excerpt
What if it was a holographic image powered in speech by a LLM large language model like ChatGPT?
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OldSkool
Dude he was a Bishop...
OldSkool
shoulda just brought the cloak like requested....
waysider
Yeah, me neither. But, ya know, you can inflict a lot of physical pain by hitting someone over the head with an actual bible. (Those big, heavy family bibles work best.)
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T-Bone
i believe people who have more birthdays live longer than people who do not.
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cman
lol.... good one T-Bone
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T-Bone
That’s from an old Popeye cartoon - he always said some funny stuff under his breath like People who have more birthdays live longer. I dressed it up to fit with your post.
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Mark Sanguinetti
WOW T-Bone. You sound like a genius. Amazing! Maybe we even know where are physical heads are. With the help of two hands and arms. Certainly we at least know who are spiritual Head is. He is currently seated at the right hand of God, his Father by birth. Jesus Christ!
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cman
mark.... what r you saying?
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T-Bone
Fyi Mark, here’s the real geniuses
Popeye - Wikipedia
Popeye the Sailor Man is a fictional cartoon character created by Elzie Crisler Segar. The character first appeared on January 17, 1929, in the daily King Features comic strip Thimble Theatre. The strip was in its tenth year when Popeye made his debut, but the one-eyed sailor quickly became the lead character, and Thimble Theatre became one of King Features' most popular properties during the 1930s. After Segar died in 1938, Thimble Theatre was continued by several writers and artists, most notably Segar's assistant Bud Sagendorf. It was formally renamed Popeye. The strip continues to appear in first-run instalments on Sundays, written and drawn by R.K. Milholland. The daily strips are reprints of old Sagendorf stories.
and that's the truth - I yam what I yam, I'm T-Bone the plagiarizing man
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Mark Sanguinetti
Certainly we at least know who
areour spiritual Head is. He is currently seated at the right hand of God, his Father by birth and resurrection from the dead. Jesus Christ!Just like I needed to edit my biblical teaching book. I need to edit my posts on Grease Spot Cafe. My goal is to be 100% truthful, but at least 99%.
Edited by Mark SanguinettiLink to comment
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T-Bone
Geez - this feels awkward.
I was just trying to be truthful in the inspiration for my silliness.
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Mark Sanguinetti
T-Bone: You type like a humor GENIUS. Congratulations for being a humor genius.
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T-Bone
Getting back to the topic
What do you all think of wierwille’s explanation of Luke 23:43 ?
I’ve copied a few different versions and pasted below…it seems to me Jesus is reassuring the repentant criminal that he would be in paradise with Jesus that very day:
New International Version
Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
English Standard Version
And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
New American Standard Bible
And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Amplified Bible
Jesus said to him, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”
Holman Christian Standard Bible
And He said to him, “I assure you: Today you will be with Me in paradise.”
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Nathan_Jr
I think I made my position on this verse known in another thread. But I haven’t put forth an opinion either way on ADAN. I am only interested in what the text says. (It doesn’t always agree with itself. I’m ok with that.)
victor’s asserted opinion was incorrect. Look at the immediate and remote contexts. Look at precedents of speech “habit patterns.” When does Jesus, or anyone, tell their audience on the day they are speaking that it is, in fact, that very same day that they are speaking?
“This makes no sense,” Victor said anytime he needed to MAKE something FIT. But this time he corrupted the text by changing it wholesale. Hey! He had a private agenda to advance
Ask yourself if victor’s whimsical claim was intellectually honest, or was it cutting off fingers to make the hand fit the glove.
victor had his own private interpretive theology He had an organized religious opinion to protect. If a verse didn’t align with his imagination, he crossed it out, or else, he added punctuation.
The added comma is just that, added.
That’s my opinion on the text. I’m open to being wrong.
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cman
O Yes, the infamous Luke 23:43. I never had a problem with it till pfal made it a problem child. Like much of the crap in pfal.
Revelation 12:5 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
The tree of life, guarded by the flaming sword that turns every way. Yes, every way, indeed!
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Simply, Jesus Christ in Luke 23:43 was acting as a loving psychiatrist for that person that day. This is one of the examples that Jesus Christ wanted to be helpful with all of humanity as long as they changed from bad to good. In using my biblical software program the Greek word for paradise is used 3 times in the New Testament. The Greek word for heaven is used 273 times in the New Testament.
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Nathan_Jr
How does one act like a loving psychiatrist for a person? What do you mean?
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Mark Sanguinetti
Calling Jesus Christ a loving psychiatrist is figurative and not literal. Jesus Christ wanted to help the persons emotions before he died or passed away. Jesus Christ was and is very helpful for humanity even when or before he experienced much pain while perhaps being nailed to a cross and experiencing death. The cross needed to be attached to a tree otherwise it would have fallen.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Regarding the question, are the dead alive now? Mortal physical humanity dies or passes away. Just like physical animals die. A number of readable scriptures show that. However, regarding the gift of Holy Spirit which followers of Jesus Christ receive as a connection with God. The Holy Spirit does not die because it is simply spiritual from God, our heavenly Father. When followers of Christ die, the gift of Holy Spirit can go back to God the giver. What God uses it for is simply up to God. Our adopted heavenly Father can use this with the future coming of Christ when Christ's followers get a new spiritual body as explained in 1st Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.
The Comfort of Christ's Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words. (NKJV)
1 Corinthians 15:42-44
Edited by Mark Sanguinetti42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. (NIV)
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cman
who are these people?
who are these people?
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cman
I'm pretty sure these guys died
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cman
But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body
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T-Bone
Hello Grease Spotters
, here’s another unimportant question from yours truly, that notorious commentary leaner.
What do you all think of wierwille’s explanation that what a medium called up was a devil spirit impersonating the dead prophet, Samuel?
Here is a hyperlink to the Bible chapter in NIV version:
1 Samuel 28 NIV (biblehub.com)
You can easily navigate around Bible Hub website by clicking on tabs to read other versions, lexicons, interlinear, and yes, last but not least those infamous commentaries. To keep those annoying references to a minimum I decided to go with a word-specific textual font reduction.
I am going to copy and paste the NIV version here followed by a relevant excerpt from a study Bible.
What fascinated me the most was the stark contrast between wierwille’s approach and that of others ( I looked at several study Bibles and commentaries but kept my selection to just one study Bible) far more qualified and legitimate scholars.
wierwille’s obsessive / compulsive demonology fixation tinged many of his interpretations. wierwille’s egomania - excessive preoccupation with himself and his identity as the man of God teaching “The Word” to his followers - kept everyone on a short leash... wierwille prided himself on being the authority on God and the Bible – providing definitive answers on many topics. Whereas the commentaries and study Bibles that I looked at are more tentative in their explanation of what happened in I Samuel 28.
I Samuel 28
1In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, “You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army.”
2David said, “Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do.”
Achish replied, “Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life.”
3Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land.
4The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all Israel and set up camp at Gilboa. 5When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6He inquired of the Lord, but the Lord did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
“There is one in Endor,” they said.
8So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”
9But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”
10Saul swore to her by the Lord, “As surely as the Lord lives, you will not be punished for this.”
11Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
“Bring up Samuel,” he said.
12When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, “Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!”
13The king said to her, “Don’t be afraid. What do you see?”
The woman said, “I see a ghostly figure a coming up out of the earth.”
14“What does he look like?” he asked.
“An old man wearing a robe is coming up,” she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground.
15Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
“I am in great distress,” Saul said. “The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has departed from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So, I have called on you to tell me what to do.”
16Samuel said, “Why do you consult me, now that the Lord has departed from you and become your enemy? 17The Lord has done what he predicted through me. The Lord has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18Because you did not obey the Lord or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the Lord has done this to you today. 19The Lord will deliver both Israel and you into the hands of the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The Lord will also give the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.”
20Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel’s words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and all that night.
21When the woman came to Saul and saw that he was greatly shaken, she said, “Look, your servant has obeyed you. I took my life in my hands and did what you told me to do. 22Now please listen to your servant and let me give you some food so you may eat and have the strength to go on your way.”
23He refused and said, “I will not eat.”
But his men joined the woman in urging him, and he listened to them. He got up from the ground and sat on the couch.
24The woman had a fattened calf at the house, which she butchered at once. She took some flour, kneaded it and baked bread without yeast. 25Then she set it before Saul and his men, and they ate. That same night they got up and left.
Footnotes:
a 13 Or see spirits; or see gods
From: 1 Samuel 28 NIV
~ ~ ~ ~
On pages 507 & 508 of NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible , on I Samuel 28:13, the following comments are offered:
A ghostly figure coming up out of the earth. Background information cannot resolve the many questions swirling around this event. Texts do not offer explanations of the phenomenon that was experienced in this necromancy, or how it may have differed from the norm…
...From a literary standpoint, there is no question that we should understand this as truly the spirit of Samuel, however phenomenologically problematic that conclusion might be. That in this instance Yahweh should deign to return Samuel from the grave – to the surprise of the woman and the dismay of Saul – in no way represents a validation either of the efficacy or the acceptability of necromancy.
Furthermore, it cannot be used to deduce revealed theology concerning the state of the dead or the nature of the soul since it may be an exceptional situation.
End of excerpt
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Mark Sanguinetti
Amazing T-Bone! You found a web site that has much biblical study research. Even the Interlinear Bible with original Koine Greek words for the New Testament. For my biblical study research. I use a software program which I have on my 3 current primary computers, which has the same research and more. This program is called Biblesoft.
https://biblesoft.com/
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cman
and the dead in Christ shall rise first
For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God
but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead
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Mark Sanguinetti
I just now remembered and saw that Charity posted links to that educational web site, Bible Hub on April 7th. Very good. Grade of "A", but God could give that web site a grade of "A+".
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chockfull
What if it was a holographic image powered in speech by a LLM large language model like ChatGPT?
Scooby Doo?
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