I heard him sing that song for the first time on Good Morning America. I sat on my bed and cried. He really captured that day.
Sounds like you have a wonderful family.
Right now there is a 21 gun salute. At first, the noise freaked me out. I ran out to my deck, a 21 gun salute is followed by the fighter jets and I did not want the noise to catch me by suprise and rattle my nerves more. There were three jets that flew by, what a beautiful sight time 9:03 a.m. I was just moved to tears. I am so sad for those people who lost their lives and I am so proud to be an American. Too many emotions for one day
And while in twi we were told not to get caught up in it all, like we were not spiritually minded enough to weigh obsession and just common sense ability to grieve over such a day.
But then those zealots foiled the almighty bunches direction of "each adv class grad win one". How dare those folks do such a thing. I mean even the day they chose to attack was in disrespect to twi.
I am so sad for those people who lost their lives and I am so proud to be an American. Too many emotions for one day
I'll probably get flamed by someone for posting this here, but I'll go ahead and say it anyways.
I think there's something wrong with what our country is doing today. I touched on it in another topic about how the memory of the dead is being abused by the capitalists (well, I'm not a commie but I mean those that worship capitalism as their god) in order to make money. Today isn't about a memorial of the deaths of innocent people a year ago, it's about advertising and pop singers.
Then there's the revenge aspect. So many people keep the subject alive of how we have to get those responsible for it. I can guarantee that everyone directly responsible for the terrorist attack is already dead, so at best we can find their leaders (not just bin Laden) and get rid of them. Instead though, the politicians have turned it into a big clusterf*** that now somehow involves Iraq, who doesn't like al Qaeda either. I am all for justice, but the attitude of "let's go bomb some towelheads" that has been in the undercurrents of America for the past year does bother me. I see the lust for revenge rather than justice the exact same logic that al Qaeda used.
Also, I don't really care about the people who died. I know that sounds callous, but I've talked to some of my closer friends and they feel the same way. Unless you know someone who died, or lived in NYC, DC, or near that field in PA, it didn't really affect you. I felt sorry for the families of the deceased a year ago, and I still do to a certain degree, but it's not some sort of life-changing event for me. It's just as sad as when you hear about the 5000 Iraqi kids that die each month or the mass murders in Rwanda or wherever.
I also don't really like what I refer to as pseudo-patriotism. I see those who went out immediately after September 11th last year as superficial and doing it only because it was fashionable. "911" and "FDNY" are fashion statements now and can be found on clothing at various stores. Real patriots don't need signs just like real followers of God shouldn't need a green bumpersticker and a pictire of the BOT hanging in their living room.
I have to admit, in the past year, I have seen a few shining examples of human compassion and accomplishment. The police and firemen who died a year ago while trying to help others were valiant, and I hope their families will try to follow their principles. I felt bad for the families of the innocents who did nothing wrong to put themselves in those positions that were killed last year.
However, everything else is a bunch of hoo-ha to me, and completely worthless. I'm not going to wear red white and blue today, I'm not going to go buy a new flag (I've had one since before last year anyway), and I'm not going to call for blood from innocents who live in the same region of the world that some of the terrorists were from. I reject the commercialism and the idiocy of the politicians as well. Unfortunately, for me all of the bad things tend to stick out more than the things I would like to memorialize today. That makes me sick of September 11th. The terrorists damaged a few buildings and murdered a few thousand, but we should be ashamed of ourselves for our nation's reaction and childishness that has been going on nonstop for about a year now.
I forgot that you left TWI recently. It must had been hard for you to hear that crap. I cried a lot that day. How could you not? I remember a ceremony and there were a bunch of Marines and they all had tears rolling down their eyes. I have never seen a Marine show emotion, especialy in uniform. I turned around a cried on my husbands shoulder. Yet, TWI wanted you guys to keep your emotions in check. I feel sorry for the innies who are not allowed to "get caught up" in real emotions.
You are entitled to your opinion. I live in one of the States that had an airplane crash into it. It is heartbreaking.
When the USS Cole got bombed, my husband (USN) was with me. I still felt for all those that lost their lives and their sailors. Till this day, I can see all their faces in my head. I was on the pier during the ceremony with the President. I cried even though I did not know one of them. I wear my flag every day in rememberance of those who died defending it. That flag means something to me and to my husband whose job it is to defend this country. I am darn proud of him and all the military.
P.S.
Our state is going to have "Remember the Cole" license plates and I am going to get one. I like to wear my heart on my sleeve and my SUV.
[This message was edited by AdiosMiCorazon on September 11, 2002 at 6:52.]
I don't post much, but I feel I need to, if only to maybe give you some insight to what you don't understand. First, I don't see the commericialism, probably because I don't watch television and I only get my news from National Public Radio(NPR).If you want to avoid the capitalists, that's one way to do it. Second, I also knew no one personally in the attck, but I do feel deeply for eveyone who lost a loved one ( I guess I'm just very empathetic), and I also am deeply conscious of the fact that the attacks could have been ANYWHERE, not just where they were. There are people who've now let us know they would rather see us dead, and will do what they can to see that happen. This is a war, just one WE'VE never seen before (other countries have had to deal with this already) and it is a direct attack on all of us, not only armies, soldiers, and generals, but all of us are targets. I'll be honest, i have to go to a doctor's appointment toady at a large hospital and bring my baby, and even though my mind tells me I'm absolutely safe, I'm still a little freaked. Last point, do you know everone with flag paraphenalia is wearing it 'cause it's in fashion because you've asked them? If not, you're making a generalization, and you're not being fair to those who wear it for deeply personal reasons.I do agree that this "let's bomb the towelheads" attitude is not going to help anything, but I also have hope that reason will prevail, and that when we do retaliate, against whoever , it will benefit not only us but all nations. THat's my two cents (for what it's worth.)
I LOVE that song!!! I doubt if anyone with TWI could write something that wonderful and comforting and melodic and.......
With all due respect to P-Mosh, I think that his/hers is a very telling example of the mindset that people who have been with TWI too long exhibit. "Without natural affection" comes to mind. It is definitely someone lacking the fruit of the spirit. TWI people have been taught to be jaded, cold, calloused and hard and to succeed and not get kicked out we had to "change our mind" to decide to hate the egg-sucking world, emotions, our "earthly families" who reject TWI (not THE WORD, but TWI's version of it), friends, co-workers, Roman Catholics, Fags, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Jews...(need I go on?)
So, thanks to P-mosh for the superb example of the cold-hearted, uncompassionate point of view from which you are experiencing this day.
There are many impressions of the day available...the commercialism, the over-emotionalism, the joy of the freedoms that we have, the joy of being a survivor, the impending doom on the terrorists, the thankfulness for our military and police and firemen....so many things available to feel and think and experience today. What we choose says a lot about us.
I feel so sad for the people who have experienced losses. I feel so sad for the people who had to experience these horrible things first hand. I feel so sad for the people who are having a really hard time with the events of 9-11. I feel angry at the people who are taking advantage of these people and the horrible acts. I feel thankful for the people who are and have given time and resources to help people affected by it.
I wouldn't feel, just like P-Mosh doesn't, if I hadn't found WayDale and GSpot to help re-tenderize my heart and open my eyes.
I just came back from work, and I know what you mean. This morning when I dropped off my daughter at school, I did not want to leave her. My chest actually hurt. I took a deep breath and drove away. I then had to get ready for work, I took a deep breath got back into my car and drove to work. I look around me and all I see is heavy faces. People walking around in a daze. People with tears in their eyes. So much sorrow. No televisions.
While at work, I thought about what posh said and I thought 9/11 is more than some day to wear the latest fashion (flags) (serious sarcasm) for so many reasons, but the one that stuck in my head the most was that, it was the day we lost our sense of security. When I kiss my husband and child in the morning, I might not be able to kiss them good night. That is the world we live in now and it all changed on a beautiful September day.
I was thinking the same thing too, I just could not organize my thoughts as well as you did. I edited the part where I said that I felt sorry for people like Posh, who did not allow themselves to feel emotions because of TWI.
When I read his post, it sounded like a TWI teaching, check up from the neck up. That was exactly what Chatty said TWI told their followers not to do, "don't get wrapped up." This is the largest funeral in the US and we are suppose to not think about it, act like it is just another day. I know I can't do that, and I don't want anyone telling me I can't get "wrapped up into it"
I just passed a church down the street, the doors were open, they invited everyone to come in and say a prayer. I guess TWI would say they are getting wrapped up into it, it is a trick of the advesary.
I decided to go to that church I just wrote about. I waited for the lightning to hit me at the door and when it did not, I entered a church for the first time in years. It was a beautiful Episcopal (sp?) church. I came in and sat in the back. No one hugged me or told me that they loved me. They must have known that would have sent me running . They were just singing, there was no sermon. It was peaceful. Everyone started to get up to leave, and I decided I should too. A man came up to me and said "stay as long as you would like." I sat back down and said thank you. He must have seen the heartbrake on my face. They let me sit there by myself in this beautiful peaceful place. I said a prayer, the first one in many many years. I stayed a little longer and just looked around. No one bothered me and one man just put his hand on my shoulder and said "God Bless you" I felt like he really meant it. Another man told me that they were holding a service at the Jewish temple a block down tonight, I should come. I was impressed. As I left, they thanked me for coming. I thanked them!
TWI would have never understood my need to just sit and be terribly sad in a place where people worshiped God. No one told me to renew my mind, get over it. I think I will go there on Sunday.
I think it is the right thing to do to spend some time in a place of worship today, be it church or meadow.
At our church this past Sunday, the sermon was focused on Psalm 27 and how our focus needs to be on God.
Tonight we'll back in that building for a remembrance service. I expect it to be a little hard on the emotions, but I think it's the least we can do to honor those who serve and protect us.
I feel glad that at least that I know longer think or care what twi might say or do about our attendance. And every Sunday I feel a little more comfortable there.
I didn't want to get too much into the politics here, but I guess I should to explain why I feel the way I do.
I see our nation's foreign policy as being responsible for the deaths of countless people outside the U.S. I have seen firsthand the results of the idiots from NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. funding terrorists in Northern Ireland and the U.K. Our nation's government has been a bully to the rest of the world for a while, and then when someone else strikes back, we act suprised.
Personally, I do feel empathy for the families of those that died, but it was a year ago, and I can't keep dwelling on something that long ago when I was not a direct part of it. However, I think I'd be safe to say that I doubt anyone here cares a lick about the "collateral damage" where we've killed wedding parties, destroyed hospitals, and other things like that in Afghanistan in mistakes that would have been easily avoided. We've propped up governments all over the world that have oppressed their people and caused problems. We supported Saddam Hussein in the past, and look at where that got us. We supported a lot of the people in Afghanistan, some of whom became the Taliban. We continue to directly support terrorists in central and south America that keep those regions destabilized.
When I say "we" I don't mean "we the people" but I mean our elected officials. If the average person was aware of some of the attrocities carried out in our names by our leaders, there would be some major reform.
Anyway, the reason this is relevant is two-fold. If you don't feel as bad when our troops go out and kill a wedding party for setting off fireworks as you do for the victims of the WTC attack, then there is something wrong with you. Also, our government has been a bully to most of the world, so it should have come as no suprise that people hate us. I've had a family member mutilated by a bomb planted in a desk at a primary school in Northern Ireland thanks to the American funded IRA. He probably wishes that he didn't live, but he is alive and can't take care of himself anymore since he can't walk and is missing an arm. Nobody in the U.S. cares about those sorts of things though, so I have grown somewhat calloused to other attrocities.
I don't think that has anything to do with TWI.
P.S. - If someone wants me to provide links to websites to back up my political claims higher up, I'll be glad to do so, although that might be better left to the politics forum rather than here.
I take threads I start very personally, have tried to hijack Fresh's on occasion cause I didn't have the energy to care for my own. While speaking of him I would like to use him as an example of something. He didn't know he was gaining a friend when he first started posting in my threads, no doubt, but he did in me. And one of the things about him that is so cool is he allowed me to just "poor my heart" out recently in his thread, and then had the graciousness to tell me that I had not messed with his thread. I am tickled that you would have felt comfortable to share your heart in my thread, knowing you may be asking for some heated replies.
A bit about me, I love music (that just pales in description), I live in music. I am very careful to post music because of it (well once messed up) but you can learn as much about me in what I post of music as you can in my words. So with that understanding this is why I chose this song as my tribute, so to speak, to my nephews. Not to celebrate Alan Jackson, but the words were awesome.
If I could get my hubby to post to you it may help you in understanding the two of us in light of this topic. But he has moved away from gs and is quickly leaving twi thoughts as well. So I will speak for him. He was a corpsman (USN) during VietNam as a neuropsychiatric tech dealing with the men that returned from Nam totally screwed in their heads. Reason they were was because of the injustice they lived thru in Nam, they knew we had no business being there and they saw the innocent people killed for the sake of the kill in some instances. Then these men returned to nearly a bitter crowd, they had served and where spit upon because of it. Most without ever wanting to be there in the first place. My hubby gained something then, a distaste for politics in the guise of war.
When 9/11 came upon us, he and I did not see eye to eye for a day of two. Reason being he felt it was all show and emotion and that soon it would fade away and folks would be back to the same ole, same ole. He loves our country, and has had a flag in the front for years, but actually took it down because he did not want to appear to be caught up in the hoorah.
Now onto to me, I am totally ignorant of politics.
What I know is this, I hate political correct thinking, I believe it to be the underbelly of apathy. It is third in line of my pet peeves, first being twi, second radio djs that cut off the end of the song.
When this happened I felt it was a shot at folks waking up and realizing they have allowed this to happen. My hubby thought I was "pie in the sky" thinking. I believe we were both correct a year later. Cause it did open some eyes that were for the good, and it did die some in the hoorah.
The only thing I am prejudice about in a person is self-imposed ignorance, never their nationality. Never.
It is a terrible thing that innocent lives were lost both here in our country and in those across the ocean from us.
We the USA allowed via our apathy for things in this country as well as across the ocean to be handled for us, just took it on faith we were being represented well and vice versa.
My nephews have a fire in their hearts to not be complacent and just take the hand dealt them. They wanted to get in the mix, to understand what is at stake and to do all they could to make it a better country to defend. For this I admire and love them. They are not of the revenge thinking at all. But I assure you if one were to point a gun at them and intend to use it, they will be on the other side of theirs intending on using it first.
So in this long*** reply I trust I have shared that I agree with all of you here today, but I also hold this is the greatest place on earth to live in and I am thankful some have opened their eyes and noticed it. And am sad for the loss of all lives that were innocent.
Zealots are not confined to other countries either, it just happened these were.
I have a feeling that you understand what I'm getting at, and that your husband and I probably agree on more of that stuff as well.
I have fairly strange political views I guess. In some ways I'm very conservative, in others very liberal. I despise war and see it as a failure of thinking. However, I support it in self-defence. I do think it's just to go after bin Laden and al Qaeda, but I find it distasteful. Also having been aware of terrorism outside of the U.S. I didn't have the same "innocence" that many others have, and lost on September 11th last year.
Anyway, thanks for understanding me, sometimes I fail to do well with my words.
Have enjoyed posting with you since you came on board, looking forward to learning from you.
Kathy
The feeling is mutual. I have already learned a lot from people here, including yourself. I am greatful to have found this place, I just wish I could share it with some of the others I know who are "innies" right now. I may do it, but I'll side with caution. I'm well aware of the whole idea of people who are no longer "standing" with TWI being supposedly posessed and trying to "trick" innies to leave.
Maybe M-PM hasn't talked to any one that was over there working sometimes 96 hour shifts to insure the accuracy of those weapons and the safety of their fellow service men and women like I have.
Then again he doesn't sound old enough to have a child that was there like me...........
"Maybe M-PM hasn't talked to any one that was over there working sometimes 96 hour shifts to insure the accuracy of those weapons and the safety of their fellow service men and women like I have."
I feel ya baby. Todays Navy is facing a whole new challenge. One that no other has faced. They will always have a special place in my heart.
BTW, I am young. I was born after Vietnam. Yet, I can still feel for those who had to serve then.
Well let me start by saying I truly pray for anyone grieving from 9/11/01 due to loss of family, friends or workers.
It was truly a cruel and sick reminder of the cost of freedom.
No plastic words can or will suffice to fill the void that people feel, IMO this has to be worked out in their time.
I for one ( a music man) commend any artist for sharing their message and heart about a tragedy
and loss like this,(if it is for monetary gain we will all see it).
At least A Jackson's song gave some therapy for some ( and twi says the word ONLY heals) God is big enough to make sure everyone gets what they need, by whatever means . He loves that much!!! Although I would agree with some that politicians have "Used" this to their benefit
if it wasn't this it would be something else so,so what!
Politicians have proved by their fruits that human life means nothing to them when it comes to the price of Freedom,because without it they are out of a job.
Dictators do not need a "House to represent them" so you can bet we will have to make mistakes on "innocent" people.(ie.. wedding party)
Its tragic but it is also called War.
I am sure that none of those BAST*RDS flying those planes thought about it. They only did it for self glory.
I don't know much but I do know that Words are powerful,so if some Singer makes a million dollars SO WHAT! Are they supposed to work for free? I don't(napkinlady may disagree hehe).
But I digress, back to Chattys great thread, Kathy that is not the first song by Mr. Jackson that I have enjoyed I also get a chill hearing his tribute to Hank Williams. So thanks for taking the time to post those words they were great.
I think this means I am old enough to be AMC's father......
I asked my son when he returned how he was doing with news about innocents getting hit by mistake. He said that it didn't bother him as he knew how hard everyone worked to try to avoid such things.
Red Cross warehouse hit twice, it was a specific target, enemy was hiding there.
Loud explosions in a hot spot, for our troops safety, shoot then ask questions. Something wrong with people that shoot off fireworks and weapons during a war.........
The enemy makes sure to target civilians and then hides behind them, we do everything humanly possible to avoid hurting them.
M P-M, have enjoyed much that you say around here, but you really are hitting close to home, governments make wars; it is our loved ones that fight them..........
Kathy.......... no spare bears here
AJ's song was something many of us needed to fight out some of the worst depression we suffered..........
Today's Navy a whole new challenge. The boys tell me the same, although from Army and AirForce understanding. One a foot soldier, one a plane mechanic, one in communications, all say the same as you stated.
Born after Nam, you babe you
NL's husband ,
Yes politicians and the cost of freedom is a deadly mix.
Love Jacksons music, he is skilled at putting in into words, and I am more than eager to add to his fortune by purchasing his material.
Grizzy,
Always more to the story than we ever hear, I for one trust our military folks over the media or our government anyday.
Guess I will have to go out and kill my own bear then but not with a handgun cause I can't hit the side of a wall with one. But a highpowered rifle with a "right" scope I am pretty darn good at. If I may say so myself.
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Dot Matrix
WOW! Great Poem!
I am proud of you, too Timothy, Ryan and Daniel!!
Dot Matrix
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AdiosMiCorazon
Chatty,
I heard him sing that song for the first time on Good Morning America. I sat on my bed and cried. He really captured that day.
Sounds like you have a wonderful family.
Right now there is a 21 gun salute. At first, the noise freaked me out. I ran out to my deck, a 21 gun salute is followed by the fighter jets and I did not want the noise to catch me by suprise and rattle my nerves more. There were three jets that flew by, what a beautiful sight time 9:03 a.m. I was just moved to tears. I am so sad for those people who lost their lives and I am so proud to be an American. Too many emotions for one day
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ChattyKathy
Yes, I thought this song captured it as well.
And while in twi we were told not to get caught up in it all, like we were not spiritually minded enough to weigh obsession and just common sense ability to grieve over such a day.
But then those zealots foiled the almighty bunches direction of "each adv class grad win one". How dare those folks do such a thing. I mean even the day they chose to attack was in disrespect to twi.
Kathy
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Mister P-Mosh
I'll probably get flamed by someone for posting this here, but I'll go ahead and say it anyways.
I think there's something wrong with what our country is doing today. I touched on it in another topic about how the memory of the dead is being abused by the capitalists (well, I'm not a commie but I mean those that worship capitalism as their god) in order to make money. Today isn't about a memorial of the deaths of innocent people a year ago, it's about advertising and pop singers.
Then there's the revenge aspect. So many people keep the subject alive of how we have to get those responsible for it. I can guarantee that everyone directly responsible for the terrorist attack is already dead, so at best we can find their leaders (not just bin Laden) and get rid of them. Instead though, the politicians have turned it into a big clusterf*** that now somehow involves Iraq, who doesn't like al Qaeda either. I am all for justice, but the attitude of "let's go bomb some towelheads" that has been in the undercurrents of America for the past year does bother me. I see the lust for revenge rather than justice the exact same logic that al Qaeda used.
Also, I don't really care about the people who died. I know that sounds callous, but I've talked to some of my closer friends and they feel the same way. Unless you know someone who died, or lived in NYC, DC, or near that field in PA, it didn't really affect you. I felt sorry for the families of the deceased a year ago, and I still do to a certain degree, but it's not some sort of life-changing event for me. It's just as sad as when you hear about the 5000 Iraqi kids that die each month or the mass murders in Rwanda or wherever.
I also don't really like what I refer to as pseudo-patriotism. I see those who went out immediately after September 11th last year as superficial and doing it only because it was fashionable. "911" and "FDNY" are fashion statements now and can be found on clothing at various stores. Real patriots don't need signs just like real followers of God shouldn't need a green bumpersticker and a pictire of the BOT hanging in their living room.
I have to admit, in the past year, I have seen a few shining examples of human compassion and accomplishment. The police and firemen who died a year ago while trying to help others were valiant, and I hope their families will try to follow their principles. I felt bad for the families of the innocents who did nothing wrong to put themselves in those positions that were killed last year.
However, everything else is a bunch of hoo-ha to me, and completely worthless. I'm not going to wear red white and blue today, I'm not going to go buy a new flag (I've had one since before last year anyway), and I'm not going to call for blood from innocents who live in the same region of the world that some of the terrorists were from. I reject the commercialism and the idiocy of the politicians as well. Unfortunately, for me all of the bad things tend to stick out more than the things I would like to memorialize today. That makes me sick of September 11th. The terrorists damaged a few buildings and murdered a few thousand, but we should be ashamed of ourselves for our nation's reaction and childishness that has been going on nonstop for about a year now.
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AdiosMiCorazon
Wow Cathy,
I forgot that you left TWI recently. It must had been hard for you to hear that crap. I cried a lot that day. How could you not? I remember a ceremony and there were a bunch of Marines and they all had tears rolling down their eyes. I have never seen a Marine show emotion, especialy in uniform. I turned around a cried on my husbands shoulder. Yet, TWI wanted you guys to keep your emotions in check. I feel sorry for the innies who are not allowed to "get caught up" in real emotions.
How dare TWI make this day about them.
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AdiosMiCorazon
Mr. P posh,
You are entitled to your opinion. I live in one of the States that had an airplane crash into it. It is heartbreaking.
When the USS Cole got bombed, my husband (USN) was with me. I still felt for all those that lost their lives and their sailors. Till this day, I can see all their faces in my head. I was on the pier during the ceremony with the President. I cried even though I did not know one of them. I wear my flag every day in rememberance of those who died defending it. That flag means something to me and to my husband whose job it is to defend this country. I am darn proud of him and all the military.
P.S.
Our state is going to have "Remember the Cole" license plates and I am going to get one. I like to wear my heart on my sleeve and my SUV.
[This message was edited by AdiosMiCorazon on September 11, 2002 at 6:52.]
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cassy
I don't post much, but I feel I need to, if only to maybe give you some insight to what you don't understand. First, I don't see the commericialism, probably because I don't watch television and I only get my news from National Public Radio(NPR).If you want to avoid the capitalists, that's one way to do it. Second, I also knew no one personally in the attck, but I do feel deeply for eveyone who lost a loved one ( I guess I'm just very empathetic), and I also am deeply conscious of the fact that the attacks could have been ANYWHERE, not just where they were. There are people who've now let us know they would rather see us dead, and will do what they can to see that happen. This is a war, just one WE'VE never seen before (other countries have had to deal with this already) and it is a direct attack on all of us, not only armies, soldiers, and generals, but all of us are targets. I'll be honest, i have to go to a doctor's appointment toady at a large hospital and bring my baby, and even though my mind tells me I'm absolutely safe, I'm still a little freaked. Last point, do you know everone with flag paraphenalia is wearing it 'cause it's in fashion because you've asked them? If not, you're making a generalization, and you're not being fair to those who wear it for deeply personal reasons.I do agree that this "let's bomb the towelheads" attitude is not going to help anything, but I also have hope that reason will prevail, and that when we do retaliate, against whoever , it will benefit not only us but all nations. THat's my two cents (for what it's worth.)
Take care
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WaywardWayfer
I LOVE that song!!! I doubt if anyone with TWI could write something that wonderful and comforting and melodic and.......
With all due respect to P-Mosh, I think that his/hers is a very telling example of the mindset that people who have been with TWI too long exhibit. "Without natural affection" comes to mind. It is definitely someone lacking the fruit of the spirit. TWI people have been taught to be jaded, cold, calloused and hard and to succeed and not get kicked out we had to "change our mind" to decide to hate the egg-sucking world, emotions, our "earthly families" who reject TWI (not THE WORD, but TWI's version of it), friends, co-workers, Roman Catholics, Fags, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Jews...(need I go on?)
So, thanks to P-mosh for the superb example of the cold-hearted, uncompassionate point of view from which you are experiencing this day.
There are many impressions of the day available...the commercialism, the over-emotionalism, the joy of the freedoms that we have, the joy of being a survivor, the impending doom on the terrorists, the thankfulness for our military and police and firemen....so many things available to feel and think and experience today. What we choose says a lot about us.
I feel so sad for the people who have experienced losses. I feel so sad for the people who had to experience these horrible things first hand. I feel so sad for the people who are having a really hard time with the events of 9-11. I feel angry at the people who are taking advantage of these people and the horrible acts. I feel thankful for the people who are and have given time and resources to help people affected by it.
I wouldn't feel, just like P-Mosh doesn't, if I hadn't found WayDale and GSpot to help re-tenderize my heart and open my eyes.
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AdiosMiCorazon
Cassy,
Great post.
I just came back from work, and I know what you mean. This morning when I dropped off my daughter at school, I did not want to leave her. My chest actually hurt. I took a deep breath and drove away. I then had to get ready for work, I took a deep breath got back into my car and drove to work. I look around me and all I see is heavy faces. People walking around in a daze. People with tears in their eyes. So much sorrow. No televisions.
While at work, I thought about what posh said and I thought 9/11 is more than some day to wear the latest fashion (flags) (serious sarcasm) for so many reasons, but the one that stuck in my head the most was that, it was the day we lost our sense of security. When I kiss my husband and child in the morning, I might not be able to kiss them good night. That is the world we live in now and it all changed on a beautiful September day.
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AdiosMiCorazon
Wayward,
I was thinking the same thing too, I just could not organize my thoughts as well as you did. I edited the part where I said that I felt sorry for people like Posh, who did not allow themselves to feel emotions because of TWI.
When I read his post, it sounded like a TWI teaching, check up from the neck up. That was exactly what Chatty said TWI told their followers not to do, "don't get wrapped up." This is the largest funeral in the US and we are suppose to not think about it, act like it is just another day. I know I can't do that, and I don't want anyone telling me I can't get "wrapped up into it"
I just passed a church down the street, the doors were open, they invited everyone to come in and say a prayer. I guess TWI would say they are getting wrapped up into it, it is a trick of the advesary.
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AdiosMiCorazon
I decided to go to that church I just wrote about. I waited for the lightning to hit me at the door and when it did not, I entered a church for the first time in years. It was a beautiful Episcopal (sp?) church. I came in and sat in the back. No one hugged me or told me that they loved me. They must have known that would have sent me running . They were just singing, there was no sermon. It was peaceful. Everyone started to get up to leave, and I decided I should too. A man came up to me and said "stay as long as you would like." I sat back down and said thank you. He must have seen the heartbrake on my face. They let me sit there by myself in this beautiful peaceful place. I said a prayer, the first one in many many years. I stayed a little longer and just looked around. No one bothered me and one man just put his hand on my shoulder and said "God Bless you" I felt like he really meant it. Another man told me that they were holding a service at the Jewish temple a block down tonight, I should come. I was impressed. As I left, they thanked me for coming. I thanked them!
TWI would have never understood my need to just sit and be terribly sad in a place where people worshiped God. No one told me to renew my mind, get over it. I think I will go there on Sunday.
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IRead
I think it is the right thing to do to spend some time in a place of worship today, be it church or meadow.
At our church this past Sunday, the sermon was focused on Psalm 27 and how our focus needs to be on God.
Tonight we'll back in that building for a remembrance service. I expect it to be a little hard on the emotions, but I think it's the least we can do to honor those who serve and protect us.
I feel glad that at least that I know longer think or care what twi might say or do about our attendance. And every Sunday I feel a little more comfortable there.
God bless the USA, long may her flag wave free.
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Mister P-Mosh
I didn't want to get too much into the politics here, but I guess I should to explain why I feel the way I do.
I see our nation's foreign policy as being responsible for the deaths of countless people outside the U.S. I have seen firsthand the results of the idiots from NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. funding terrorists in Northern Ireland and the U.K. Our nation's government has been a bully to the rest of the world for a while, and then when someone else strikes back, we act suprised.
Personally, I do feel empathy for the families of those that died, but it was a year ago, and I can't keep dwelling on something that long ago when I was not a direct part of it. However, I think I'd be safe to say that I doubt anyone here cares a lick about the "collateral damage" where we've killed wedding parties, destroyed hospitals, and other things like that in Afghanistan in mistakes that would have been easily avoided. We've propped up governments all over the world that have oppressed their people and caused problems. We supported Saddam Hussein in the past, and look at where that got us. We supported a lot of the people in Afghanistan, some of whom became the Taliban. We continue to directly support terrorists in central and south America that keep those regions destabilized.
When I say "we" I don't mean "we the people" but I mean our elected officials. If the average person was aware of some of the attrocities carried out in our names by our leaders, there would be some major reform.
Anyway, the reason this is relevant is two-fold. If you don't feel as bad when our troops go out and kill a wedding party for setting off fireworks as you do for the victims of the WTC attack, then there is something wrong with you. Also, our government has been a bully to most of the world, so it should have come as no suprise that people hate us. I've had a family member mutilated by a bomb planted in a desk at a primary school in Northern Ireland thanks to the American funded IRA. He probably wishes that he didn't live, but he is alive and can't take care of himself anymore since he can't walk and is missing an arm. Nobody in the U.S. cares about those sorts of things though, so I have grown somewhat calloused to other attrocities.
I don't think that has anything to do with TWI.
P.S. - If someone wants me to provide links to websites to back up my political claims higher up, I'll be glad to do so, although that might be better left to the politics forum rather than here.
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ChattyKathy
Mister P-Mosh,
I take threads I start very personally, have tried to hijack Fresh's on occasion cause I didn't have the energy to care for my own. While speaking of him I would like to use him as an example of something. He didn't know he was gaining a friend when he first started posting in my threads, no doubt, but he did in me. And one of the things about him that is so cool is he allowed me to just "poor my heart" out recently in his thread, and then had the graciousness to tell me that I had not messed with his thread. I am tickled that you would have felt comfortable to share your heart in my thread, knowing you may be asking for some heated replies.
A bit about me, I love music (that just pales in description), I live in music. I am very careful to post music because of it (well once messed up) but you can learn as much about me in what I post of music as you can in my words. So with that understanding this is why I chose this song as my tribute, so to speak, to my nephews. Not to celebrate Alan Jackson, but the words were awesome.
If I could get my hubby to post to you it may help you in understanding the two of us in light of this topic. But he has moved away from gs and is quickly leaving twi thoughts as well. So I will speak for him. He was a corpsman (USN) during VietNam as a neuropsychiatric tech dealing with the men that returned from Nam totally screwed in their heads. Reason they were was because of the injustice they lived thru in Nam, they knew we had no business being there and they saw the innocent people killed for the sake of the kill in some instances. Then these men returned to nearly a bitter crowd, they had served and where spit upon because of it. Most without ever wanting to be there in the first place. My hubby gained something then, a distaste for politics in the guise of war.
When 9/11 came upon us, he and I did not see eye to eye for a day of two. Reason being he felt it was all show and emotion and that soon it would fade away and folks would be back to the same ole, same ole. He loves our country, and has had a flag in the front for years, but actually took it down because he did not want to appear to be caught up in the hoorah.
Now onto to me, I am totally ignorant of politics.
What I know is this, I hate political correct thinking, I believe it to be the underbelly of apathy. It is third in line of my pet peeves, first being twi, second radio djs that cut off the end of the song.
When this happened I felt it was a shot at folks waking up and realizing they have allowed this to happen. My hubby thought I was "pie in the sky" thinking. I believe we were both correct a year later. Cause it did open some eyes that were for the good, and it did die some in the hoorah.
The only thing I am prejudice about in a person is self-imposed ignorance, never their nationality. Never.
It is a terrible thing that innocent lives were lost both here in our country and in those across the ocean from us.
We the USA allowed via our apathy for things in this country as well as across the ocean to be handled for us, just took it on faith we were being represented well and vice versa.
My nephews have a fire in their hearts to not be complacent and just take the hand dealt them. They wanted to get in the mix, to understand what is at stake and to do all they could to make it a better country to defend. For this I admire and love them. They are not of the revenge thinking at all. But I assure you if one were to point a gun at them and intend to use it, they will be on the other side of theirs intending on using it first.
So in this long*** reply I trust I have shared that I agree with all of you here today, but I also hold this is the greatest place on earth to live in and I am thankful some have opened their eyes and noticed it. And am sad for the loss of all lives that were innocent.
Zealots are not confined to other countries either, it just happened these were.
Kathy
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Mister P-Mosh
Kathy,
I have a feeling that you understand what I'm getting at, and that your husband and I probably agree on more of that stuff as well.
I have fairly strange political views I guess. In some ways I'm very conservative, in others very liberal. I despise war and see it as a failure of thinking. However, I support it in self-defence. I do think it's just to go after bin Laden and al Qaeda, but I find it distasteful. Also having been aware of terrorism outside of the U.S. I didn't have the same "innocence" that many others have, and lost on September 11th last year.
Anyway, thanks for understanding me, sometimes I fail to do well with my words.
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ChattyKathy
Mister P-Mosh,
Have enjoyed posting with you since you came on board, looking forward to learning from you.
Kathy
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Mister P-Mosh
The feeling is mutual. I have already learned a lot from people here, including yourself. I am greatful to have found this place, I just wish I could share it with some of the others I know who are "innies" right now. I may do it, but I'll side with caution. I'm well aware of the whole idea of people who are no longer "standing" with TWI being supposedly posessed and trying to "trick" innies to leave.
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Grizzy
Maybe M-PM hasn't talked to any one that was over there working sometimes 96 hour shifts to insure the accuracy of those weapons and the safety of their fellow service men and women like I have.
Then again he doesn't sound old enough to have a child that was there like me...........
Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>
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ChattyKathy
Grizzy,
I believe you are correct, I have thought him to be younger than us, but as I read him he appears to have meekness to learn from all us here.
You are a great reality poster, I am sure he will learn from you.
Kathy
hey where is a bear I can put in my living room, have a nice corner spot for one
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AdiosMiCorazon
Griz:
"Maybe M-PM hasn't talked to any one that was over there working sometimes 96 hour shifts to insure the accuracy of those weapons and the safety of their fellow service men and women like I have."
I feel ya baby. Todays Navy is facing a whole new challenge. One that no other has faced. They will always have a special place in my heart.
BTW, I am young. I was born after Vietnam. Yet, I can still feel for those who had to serve then.
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INDEBTSAYSWHO
Well let me start by saying I truly pray for anyone grieving from 9/11/01 due to loss of family, friends or workers.
It was truly a cruel and sick reminder of the cost of freedom.
No plastic words can or will suffice to fill the void that people feel, IMO this has to be worked out in their time.
I for one ( a music man) commend any artist for sharing their message and heart about a tragedy
and loss like this,(if it is for monetary gain we will all see it).
At least A Jackson's song gave some therapy for some ( and twi says the word ONLY heals) God is big enough to make sure everyone gets what they need, by whatever means . He loves that much!!! Although I would agree with some that politicians have "Used" this to their benefit
if it wasn't this it would be something else so,so what!
Politicians have proved by their fruits that human life means nothing to them when it comes to the price of Freedom,because without it they are out of a job.
Dictators do not need a "House to represent them" so you can bet we will have to make mistakes on "innocent" people.(ie.. wedding party)
Its tragic but it is also called War.
I am sure that none of those BAST*RDS flying those planes thought about it. They only did it for self glory.
I don't know much but I do know that Words are powerful,so if some Singer makes a million dollars SO WHAT! Are they supposed to work for free? I don't(napkinlady may disagree hehe).
But I digress, back to Chattys great thread, Kathy that is not the first song by Mr. Jackson that I have enjoyed I also get a chill hearing his tribute to Hank Williams. So thanks for taking the time to post those words they were great.
Fightin crimes of daway
These are my OPINIONs and I'm entitled to them!
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Grizzy
I think this means I am old enough to be AMC's father......
I asked my son when he returned how he was doing with news about innocents getting hit by mistake. He said that it didn't bother him as he knew how hard everyone worked to try to avoid such things.
Red Cross warehouse hit twice, it was a specific target, enemy was hiding there.
Loud explosions in a hot spot, for our troops safety, shoot then ask questions. Something wrong with people that shoot off fireworks and weapons during a war.........
The enemy makes sure to target civilians and then hides behind them, we do everything humanly possible to avoid hurting them.
M P-M, have enjoyed much that you say around here, but you really are hitting close to home, governments make wars; it is our loved ones that fight them..........
Kathy.......... no spare bears here
AJ's song was something many of us needed to fight out some of the worst depression we suffered..........
Grizzy COLOR>SIZE>
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ChattyKathy
Adios,
Today's Navy a whole new challenge. The boys tell me the same, although from Army and AirForce understanding. One a foot soldier, one a plane mechanic, one in communications, all say the same as you stated.
Born after Nam, you babe you
NL's husband ,
Yes politicians and the cost of freedom is a deadly mix.
Love Jacksons music, he is skilled at putting in into words, and I am more than eager to add to his fortune by purchasing his material.
Grizzy,
Always more to the story than we ever hear, I for one trust our military folks over the media or our government anyday.
Guess I will have to go out and kill my own bear then but not with a handgun cause I can't hit the side of a wall with one. But a highpowered rifle with a "right" scope I am pretty darn good at. If I may say so myself.
See ya,
Kathy
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