Vp said the original wasn't the apple in the tree but the pear on the ground.
I am now just old enough to know what he meant.
Then, the thing about the "dirt road" - I do not remember. Probably because I didn't get that either.
I took the class more than once, maybe three times. I NEVER understood how VP got "masterbation" from scripture.
I found that class to be in poor taste. Now, looking back, it was about old horny men having a great time at the expense of young believers.
Why did he think he needed to teach such smut to young adults? We already learned about it in school or with our own experiences. It was inappropriate.
Never understood the masterbation stuff, but then I never understood "corps night" I used to sit there like I was in a foreign country unfamilar with the language.
I still thnk VP used our "birth to the corps" papers as "beat-off material." (Some had some racey things written in it.)
In CF&S, I bet VP watched us through a little peep hole, through which he peeked and played "yankee doodle" on his dandy.
Snicker
By the way, speaking of "a little hole" that was what lead to the fall of the ministry.
Chortle
I'm sorry, I just caught my funbag on the keyboard, forgive my crudeness.
Let me try another position.... Ummmm that is better....
Anyone ready for a game of pocket pool?
Sorry, did anyone answer? I was busy sitting on a mirror....
Oops the door bell! Be right back... My female neighbor and her German Shepherd stopped by...
See ya later.....
(Okay getting rank here, sorry.
Oink Oink, now I am a dirty old gal!)
Here fido!!!
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 19, 2003 at 16:43.]
Dot. ROTFLMAO! You came by just in time. I was really po'd at the comment the ole man and cronies like him made about women. How sexually immature can you get?
And your right about a bunch of horny old men teaching young adults about sex. Hey, that offshoot I used to go to ran a class like that not long ago, and they're all middle aged wayfers there.
What the hell do THEY need to know by now? Nothing they can't get better info from a cheap video I'm sure.
But I'm still sicking 3 more on these old geezers liver spotted a$$es.
grrrrr
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on September 19, 2003 at 16:57.]
Well now that's my problem with understanding this. There are so many sexual innuendoes in this class.
Saying that the original sin wasn't the apple but the pair on the ground, could be a clever (er..sort of) reference to Adam and Eve being the pair that screwed up.
However, you saying that the uterus as the pear is more on line of what I was looking for since there is supposed to be such "Deeeeeeeep" meaning in this class.
sigh.
Now I have to figure out apple butter references?
sigh.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a rottweiler...
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
I have to speak up and before you barbecue me please hear me out.then you can add the appropriate seasonings. First I spoke with Rottie on a couple of things and she very kindly gave me permission to post this. I have been an class instructor for CF&S on a couple of occasions. I reread both the instructers guide and the full syllabus today much of it is a transcript of the segments. I have been out of the way for years now 14-15. I am not a Way supporter but in fairness I have to say The Way has enough things honestly wrong with it that we don't need to invent new ones. I take into account that for most of us it has been years since we took this class and our memories mine included are maybe not as clear on what was said as we think. That is why I reread the transcrips. There has been some comments on how the class was slanted but I would put before you that perhaps in anger to other things that have happened or for some other reason many feel that it is ok to just say anything and pass it off as truth. That is also slanting peoples opinions who read these posts and trust your words.
It has been pointed out that this class was not much in substance I would agree even then much of the info was dated. So for most it was info they already new or could readily accesss.
It was said the class was about sex. After a review I would not agree there is much about dating, relationships,The Virtuous Woman,Marriage and a fair amount of scripture.
There are many down sides to the class many have been pointed out The Originial Sin Seg.
The roll of men and Woman ,and ohers
It was implicated that the class was slanted for men ,against Woman. Also that Dr. made a statement about woman's vagina's being ugly. I don't remember that nor have I seen that today. I'm again reading quotes from Dr. Wierwille from the class transcripts.
"Helpmeet means companion, one who brings out the best in a man NOT a SLave,or a Dog. He does not take advantage of her raise hell with her."
"Christ does not Lord it over the church if your man yells jump Baloney."
"weaker Vessle means she is to be treated tenderly,lovingly,gracefully."
"Both man and Woman are on a equal level with God."
"Sex is not something that you just do: It is something that two people become."
"Fantasies are a cop out make your wife your pin up girl."
"Be forgiving there is no sound like the sound of silence,utter silence can be the loudest sound in the world when you are waiting for someone to break it."
"Next to the Word of God the human body is the most beautiful thing."(note does not say male human body)
I'm sorry I am not a better typest there are many more. But I don't see where you find any degrading ideas in those statements.
They may or may not have lived those words in action and if not they should be held accountable but to make up untruths does not help the solution.
I know that when I am dead I will have had some mistakes and faults, but also some good in my life I sure hope that people don't add to the list unjustly.
I know that there are some edits and typos I'll fix them.
One more thing for the record Trefor the quote was "a wife should be an angel in the kitchen and a devil in the bedroom"The context don't be a prude in the bedroom don't be afraid to be sexy. there is nothing wrong with it. This was in the section to woman there was one for men also.
Thanks
I smell something cooking ah oh it's me.
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
[This message was edited by WhiteDove on September 19, 2003 at 18:37.]
I took CF & S in 1975 shortly after I took the PFAL class. I thought it was a riot that the penis example he first showed was a black man's. Guess he wanted to make sure there was something there for everyone to see!! LOL.
The masturbation thing was interesting. I can vividly recall that in the manifestations directly before the "BIG M" segment the guy who spoke in tongues and interpreted said that the things we were hearing were "the rightly divided Word of God." I, a relatively new believer, was excited that I was being so enlightened to be in such a spiritual enviornment with people who REALLY knew the Word. I see now how that was not the case.
I was put in the front row of the class (we had assigned seats then). Guess they really wanted me to get the full force of this class.
Rottie, women SHOULD enjoy sex as much as men do without being called anything derogatory. I am so sorry that VPW exalted the man but made women seem less than the wonderful blessings they are to man. Shmae on him. He will be judged harshly for this.
Hey WhiteDove thanks for sharing that. Appreicate it. There is some good stuff it seemed in the class, though some does sound a bit dated.
I will say that thing about the wife being an angel in the kitchen and devil in the bedroom to ME is more than inapporpriate though. For one thing, Not every woman enjoys the kitchen. Some men like it better in fact.
For ANOTHER thing, I don't like the fact that a supposedly mature minister would refer to a woman enjoying sex in the bedroom as being a "DEVIL in the bedroom." Not even in jest. Uh uh.
Sex, and yes GOOD sex, hell, GREAT sex, is from God. He invented it. Why the hell would a supposedly intelligent MINISTER give the credit to the devil and then compare a woman to it?
Totally immature and ignorant. You would THINK he would have known better to say a dumb thing like that even if it was a popular metaphor of his time.
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on September 19, 2003 at 18:57.]
quote: I have to speak up and before you barbecue me please hear me out.then you can add the appropriate seasonings.
LOL
That is fair.
I do not recall him saying the vagina was ugly either. I recall it being said that women probably have not even seen themselves.
At the class, I got up to go to the bathroom at break and someone handed me a mirror.
But I do think it was a BAD class over all. I think it was inappropriate for him to go through all the slang terms in a CHRISTAIN CLASS. I do wonder the purpose of that kind of class to young adults who already took health in high school.
See no seasonings. It is America, you can share without being on the "menu".
We can disagree without death.
quote:They may or may not have lived those words in action and if not they should be held accountable but to make up untruths does not help the solution
I do not think anyone is making up untruths. You even had to go check your books, dear Dove.
It maybe more of the years have gone by and memories fade, or perhaps they DO recall something being said that you did not have in your notes.
As far as perhaps having sympathy for VPW which maybe a little of what you are feeling (I might be wrong) I never liked the song "Sympathy for the Devil" and I do not have any for VPW or Craig. If that makes me bad - then I am bad.
This is America, you may be a kinder and more gentle soul. You may be more advanced in forgiveness than I or others may be. And it is OKAY! It is okay to be "you" and express your opinions. It is okay for all of us to express ourselves. It is okay.
If anyone forgot what was actually said, it is okay and easy to forgive. If it bothers you that there are some misquotes - its okay.
It is okay to disagree.
But we are all in agreement the class was stupid and should have been done more appropriately - perhaps by having a male and female class seperately.
And in the spirit of the stupid slang drenched class I chide in kind.
Peace
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 19, 2003 at 18:45.]
WWS. Why are you deleting your messages? Come on! no fair! Besides, the one about the apple butter wasn't bad, especially considering some of the stuff on this thread!
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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RottieGrrrl
Here it is.
Stupid ole ugly Weirwille for saying that.
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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Dot Matrix
Vp said the original wasn't the apple in the tree but the pear on the ground.
I am now just old enough to know what he meant.
Then, the thing about the "dirt road" - I do not remember. Probably because I didn't get that either.
I took the class more than once, maybe three times. I NEVER understood how VP got "masterbation" from scripture.
I found that class to be in poor taste. Now, looking back, it was about old horny men having a great time at the expense of young believers.
Why did he think he needed to teach such smut to young adults? We already learned about it in school or with our own experiences. It was inappropriate.
Never understood the masterbation stuff, but then I never understood "corps night" I used to sit there like I was in a foreign country unfamilar with the language.
I still thnk VP used our "birth to the corps" papers as "beat-off material." (Some had some racey things written in it.)
In CF&S, I bet VP watched us through a little peep hole, through which he peeked and played "yankee doodle" on his dandy.
Snicker
By the way, speaking of "a little hole" that was what lead to the fall of the ministry.
Chortle
I'm sorry, I just caught my funbag on the keyboard, forgive my crudeness.
Let me try another position.... Ummmm that is better....
Anyone ready for a game of pocket pool?
Sorry, did anyone answer? I was busy sitting on a mirror....
Oops the door bell! Be right back... My female neighbor and her German Shepherd stopped by...
See ya later.....
(Okay getting rank here, sorry.
Oink Oink, now I am a dirty old gal!)
Here fido!!!
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 19, 2003 at 16:43.]
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RottieGrrrl
Dot. ROTFLMAO! You came by just in time. I was really po'd at the comment the ole man and cronies like him made about women. How sexually immature can you get?
And your right about a bunch of horny old men teaching young adults about sex. Hey, that offshoot I used to go to ran a class like that not long ago, and they're all middle aged wayfers there.
What the hell do THEY need to know by now? Nothing they can't get better info from a cheap video I'm sure.
But I'm still sicking 3 more on these old geezers liver spotted a$$es.
grrrrr
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on September 19, 2003 at 16:57.]
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Dot Matrix
Good boy! Stay I need to talk with Rottie!
________________
Sorry Rottie, did you say something?
I was busy.
Okay, I reread your post! It was GRRRReat. Love the dogs.... wink.
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
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RottieGrrrl
Beautiful dog Dots. "the pair on the ground?" hmmm. I still don't get it. Pear? huh? pair? Adam and Eve? Are they the pair on the ground?
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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Tom Strange
rottie... (in case you didn't get it)... apple, pear... ???? apple, pair....
now, go iron my shirts!
:P-->
... confusion will be my epitath...
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RottieGrrrl
apple pear...apple, pair..er....apple...pear...um...apple...pear...PEACH? WHAAAAT???? I DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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Dot Matrix
After 20+ years I heard a woman can be referred to as a "pear" (the shape of the uterus?)
And being as it was masterbation someone (x-TWI) said Eve was using a stick in her pear....
Made more sense to me than the big empty nothing I used to get for the remark. Now, maybe that Xwafer was searching for meaning herself.
But now that you said "pair" maybe that is what he meant. Ya know, a class should not be so difficult to understand that I still am uncertain.
Who the he ll knows?
Peter J Wade are you out there? What did the VIP mean?
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
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WeWereScammed
...
[This message was edited by WeWereScammed on September 19, 2003 at 18:08.]
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Steve Lortz
WWS - I think you may be picking something up from Mike. I recommend using sunglasses and latex gloves for a while when reading his threads.
Love,
Steve
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WeWereScammed
.
[This message was edited by WeWereScammed on September 19, 2003 at 18:07.]
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RottieGrrrl
Well now that's my problem with understanding this. There are so many sexual innuendoes in this class.
Saying that the original sin wasn't the apple but the pair on the ground, could be a clever (er..sort of) reference to Adam and Eve being the pair that screwed up.
However, you saying that the uterus as the pear is more on line of what I was looking for since there is supposed to be such "Deeeeeeeep" meaning in this class.
sigh.
Now I have to figure out apple butter references?
sigh.
...It's hard to be humble when you own a rottweiler...
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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WhiteDove
I have to speak up and before you barbecue me please hear me out.then you can add the appropriate seasonings. First I spoke with Rottie on a couple of things and she very kindly gave me permission to post this. I have been an class instructor for CF&S on a couple of occasions. I reread both the instructers guide and the full syllabus today much of it is a transcript of the segments. I have been out of the way for years now 14-15. I am not a Way supporter but in fairness I have to say The Way has enough things honestly wrong with it that we don't need to invent new ones. I take into account that for most of us it has been years since we took this class and our memories mine included are maybe not as clear on what was said as we think. That is why I reread the transcrips. There has been some comments on how the class was slanted but I would put before you that perhaps in anger to other things that have happened or for some other reason many feel that it is ok to just say anything and pass it off as truth. That is also slanting peoples opinions who read these posts and trust your words.
It has been pointed out that this class was not much in substance I would agree even then much of the info was dated. So for most it was info they already new or could readily accesss.
It was said the class was about sex. After a review I would not agree there is much about dating, relationships,The Virtuous Woman,Marriage and a fair amount of scripture.
There are many down sides to the class many have been pointed out The Originial Sin Seg.
The roll of men and Woman ,and ohers
It was implicated that the class was slanted for men ,against Woman. Also that Dr. made a statement about woman's vagina's being ugly. I don't remember that nor have I seen that today. I'm again reading quotes from Dr. Wierwille from the class transcripts.
"Helpmeet means companion, one who brings out the best in a man NOT a SLave,or a Dog. He does not take advantage of her raise hell with her."
"Christ does not Lord it over the church if your man yells jump Baloney."
"weaker Vessle means she is to be treated tenderly,lovingly,gracefully."
"Both man and Woman are on a equal level with God."
"Sex is not something that you just do: It is something that two people become."
"Fantasies are a cop out make your wife your pin up girl."
"Be forgiving there is no sound like the sound of silence,utter silence can be the loudest sound in the world when you are waiting for someone to break it."
"Next to the Word of God the human body is the most beautiful thing."(note does not say male human body)
I'm sorry I am not a better typest there are many more. But I don't see where you find any degrading ideas in those statements.
They may or may not have lived those words in action and if not they should be held accountable but to make up untruths does not help the solution.
I know that when I am dead I will have had some mistakes and faults, but also some good in my life I sure hope that people don't add to the list unjustly.
I know that there are some edits and typos I'll fix them.
One more thing for the record Trefor the quote was "a wife should be an angel in the kitchen and a devil in the bedroom"The context don't be a prude in the bedroom don't be afraid to be sexy. there is nothing wrong with it. This was in the section to woman there was one for men also.
Thanks
I smell something cooking ah oh it's me.
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
[This message was edited by WhiteDove on September 19, 2003 at 18:37.]
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exousia
I took CF & S in 1975 shortly after I took the PFAL class. I thought it was a riot that the penis example he first showed was a black man's. Guess he wanted to make sure there was something there for everyone to see!! LOL.
The masturbation thing was interesting. I can vividly recall that in the manifestations directly before the "BIG M" segment the guy who spoke in tongues and interpreted said that the things we were hearing were "the rightly divided Word of God." I, a relatively new believer, was excited that I was being so enlightened to be in such a spiritual enviornment with people who REALLY knew the Word. I see now how that was not the case.
I was put in the front row of the class (we had assigned seats then). Guess they really wanted me to get the full force of this class.
Rottie, women SHOULD enjoy sex as much as men do without being called anything derogatory. I am so sorry that VPW exalted the man but made women seem less than the wonderful blessings they are to man. Shmae on him. He will be judged harshly for this.
exousia
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RottieGrrrl
Hey WhiteDove thanks for sharing that. Appreicate it. There is some good stuff it seemed in the class, though some does sound a bit dated.
I will say that thing about the wife being an angel in the kitchen and devil in the bedroom to ME is more than inapporpriate though. For one thing, Not every woman enjoys the kitchen. Some men like it better in fact.
For ANOTHER thing, I don't like the fact that a supposedly mature minister would refer to a woman enjoying sex in the bedroom as being a "DEVIL in the bedroom." Not even in jest. Uh uh.
Sex, and yes GOOD sex, hell, GREAT sex, is from God. He invented it. Why the hell would a supposedly intelligent MINISTER give the credit to the devil and then compare a woman to it?
Totally immature and ignorant. You would THINK he would have known better to say a dumb thing like that even if it was a popular metaphor of his time.
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
[This message was edited by RottieGrrrl on September 19, 2003 at 18:57.]
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RottieGrrrl
exous: Just read your post. We posted at the same time. Thanks for sharing sweetie.
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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WeWereScammed
message deleted
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WeWereScammed
message deleted.
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up on high
We were Scammed, I'm curious, what did you delete or edit?
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up on high
WhiteDove, I think you're well done!!!!
;)-->
Just kidding!!
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Dot Matrix
White Dove:
LOL
That is fair.
I do not recall him saying the vagina was ugly either. I recall it being said that women probably have not even seen themselves.
At the class, I got up to go to the bathroom at break and someone handed me a mirror.
But I do think it was a BAD class over all. I think it was inappropriate for him to go through all the slang terms in a CHRISTAIN CLASS. I do wonder the purpose of that kind of class to young adults who already took health in high school.
See no seasonings. It is America, you can share without being on the "menu".
We can disagree without death.
I do not think anyone is making up untruths. You even had to go check your books, dear Dove.
It maybe more of the years have gone by and memories fade, or perhaps they DO recall something being said that you did not have in your notes.
As far as perhaps having sympathy for VPW which maybe a little of what you are feeling (I might be wrong) I never liked the song "Sympathy for the Devil" and I do not have any for VPW or Craig. If that makes me bad - then I am bad.
This is America, you may be a kinder and more gentle soul. You may be more advanced in forgiveness than I or others may be. And it is OKAY! It is okay to be "you" and express your opinions. It is okay for all of us to express ourselves. It is okay.
If anyone forgot what was actually said, it is okay and easy to forgive. If it bothers you that there are some misquotes - its okay.
It is okay to disagree.
But we are all in agreement the class was stupid and should have been done more appropriately - perhaps by having a male and female class seperately.
And in the spirit of the stupid slang drenched class I chide in kind.
Peace
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
[This message was edited by Dot Matrix on September 19, 2003 at 18:45.]
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RottieGrrrl
Someone hand you a mirror. OH MY GAWWWWWWWWWWD.
WWS. Why are you deleting your messages? Come on! no fair! Besides, the one about the apple butter wasn't bad, especially considering some of the stuff on this thread!
...Ain't no grave, gonna hold this body down..when I hear that trumpet sound...
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Dot Matrix
Yes, My friend Sue handed me her mirror and the whole class cracked up!
(It was VERY funny)
Scammie
It is okay to speak of the apple butter, that was humorous.
PS Wasn't the dog and women from the advanced class?
Life is too short for bad coffee!
Dot Matrix
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WhiteDove
Without Coffee
I Would Have No Personality At All
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