Some of you have asked me to tell you how it all happened so without going into many details I will do my best to share my heart and involment with Way Prod.
Before we start feel that I should say once again about my friendship with VP.I did not worship nor do I worship the man.He was my friend who taught me some bible and we shared a song or two together The reason I am saying this is because his name will come up several times before I finish this story
In 1968 Mardelle (my wife at that time) got involved with The Way and very quickly started writting and performing music for and with The Way.
Two working night club entertainers that used the same style and format as we did while working in the clubs. .VP loved how we performed and for the next three years we would work in the lounges to earn some bucks so we could travel and work with The Way and VP .At no time did we ever receive any finical gain nor did we desire to do so in a way guess you could say it was our way of giving
After the closing day Of Rock Of Ages 1971 (which by the way was coined by my First Corp buddy Mike Smith we stiil are good friends till this day).VP calls a meeting for all musicians and singers to be held at the New Knoxville High School About thirty or so showed up including Preesed Down,Selah and others.The reason VP called us all together was to see if perhaps somehow we could do something productive wise with these talented people.It was decided that there would need to be a director for the music ministry as it was called then.So each man or woman who thought they could do the job took the floor and spoke.There were many grand and lengthy wonderful ideas tossed to and fro as I held my peace. Vp calls on me to share and I did so in one simple sentence "What we need to do is put our hand before the plow and go to work"
VP.Ermal and H,E.go to a room to choose who wil be the director.In a short while they came back and announced that I would be the one.I really did not want the job as I knew to some degree what I was letting myself in for.
This is kinda heavy for me so think I need a break but will continue later on tell you about how I believed Way Prod.as i called it should be set up. More on that in next post.
Love Ya!
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 17, 2002 at 19:18.]
Right away I was aked to select two groups to invite to NK and my pick was Pressed Down and Selah
Around the first of Sept.in 1971 VP Ermal and H.E. asked me let's go for a drive into New Knoxville We pull up in front of this two story building that was vacant and went inside The bullding had been used as a egg storage warehouse and you sure could smell the chickens. The three men asked me Ted will this place do for Way Prod.I checked it over from top to bottom and said with some clean up it will do fine,The next day it was purchased and I named it The Outreach House because of a music publishing company I had in my mind called Outreach Music.
We four men talked about how I would like to set up Way Prod. I said think it would be best for Way Prod to be independent of The Way and that was oK by all. Harry W.asks me how much money do you think you will need for start up cash.I replied a thousand will do.We go over to the bank and set up an account for Way Prod. even got a big bizz. check book.So now we have a place to rehearse and live and food for the two groups would be supplied at HQ dinning room.
Right away I start thinking about paying back that thousand I got from Harry W. I knew that Rock Of Ages 71 had all been recorded by a prof studio from Dayton and I had the reel to reel tapes.So I invited Mike Smith to go to Dayton studio and help edit those tapes so we could make a highlights album of ROA 71 which we did. I orderd one thousand records to be pressed from master tape and while they were being pressed went to Em Allen and told her abour the albums and asked how many would she like at three dollars per album she ordered five hundred and Way Prod had just made a thousand dollar profit during the next few weeks I sold another five hundred for a fifteen hundred dollar profit Now we had some money in the bank and I had payed half off on the loan from H.E.
Pressed Down And Selah are there by now and we have cleaned up our building till it was spic and span and both groups are rehearsing and composing tunes to beat the band and The Outreach House was a rocking
A couple or so months later things changed and the vision I had for Way Prod died one cold December night as Way Prod. became a dept.of The Way .This was not VP's actual doing but rather pressure was being brought to bare from the leadership of the east and west coast and from both music groups
Will wind this topic up on next post and move back to the music of the seventies
I hope you can understand this post and that I was able to clearly explain how most of it came down
Love To All
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 18, 2002 at 2:06.]
In mid December of 1971 The decision was made that Pressed Down and Selah were ready to go into the studio and record.That decision was smade on a cold December night to put the wheels in motion because both groups were strainging at the bit to get in the studio I was somwewaht hesitant because I knew the money it would take be around ten thousand dollars and at present Way Prod.did not have even near enough to cover the cost.Plus because of the size of The Way at that time I knew it would be a long time before we could break even So I came to the conclusion Way Prod. would be better seved as a twi dept. and so that phase of Way Prod. was over
In Jan. and Feb. of 1972 both Pressed Down and Selah recorded and for 1972 both of those albums were darn good Better than most christian music that was on the market.Pressed down went back to NY.after recording was finished. Selah stayed around for a few more months to do some road programs with me for The Way. As 1972 came to a close both groups were back in their home areas.
I returned to the night club scene In 1973 and worked the rest of the year on the road.In Dec.of 73 while doing a gig in Louisville Ky. VP called me and said I have a bunch of musicians here in the Fourth Corp and I don't know what to do with them maybe you will know .There was dead silence on the phone for a few seconds till I said gee! I don't know about that V.P.my answer right now is no. He kept talking and asked well at least will you drive up here and talk to me.I had two days off on that booking so I drove up to NK and listened to what he had to say.I'm an easy mark so on Jan 13 1974 I walked out on the stage of a little theater in Minster Ohio and said God Bless You and Welcome To Joyful Noise and the rest is history.I loved working with all of those very talented men and women hey socks that includes you and Janet and I would not have missed the good times music and songs we shared for all the tea in china.
I have told you in part how it all began and now perhaps socks will fill in some of the rest of Way Prod.
That's All Folks On This Topic
Love To All
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 18, 2002 at 3:50.]
One of the things I love about this forum is the opportunity to know the real story. One that is spoken by the ones who lived it, and is not hindered in the telling of it by control freak twi leaders. If you tried to tell that story while in TWI, you would have had some stupid little snot-nosed who doesn't know his *** from a whole in the ground leader going "well maybe it was really like this or that". arrggggg
Thank you for the details, they were fascinating. And Socks, please give us some goodies on this as well. Please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And as far as my posting too much, well I decided, screw it....this is free cyberspace and I still have way too much to say to allow myself to be held back in my words here. I left here and played some in open and music forums. Then saw QQ had a thread that just grabbed my attention. I just still have too much to say, so folks read me or pass me over, your call. But I ain't going anywhere.
Kathy
edited to add this: being of the feisty mindset I am today I decided to alter the name of this thread, was pretty confident it was not going to confused with another one at this point.
[This message was edited by ChattyKathy on December 18, 2002 at 5:53.]
I love this thread! And you started it! So if you weren't around, I would not have had the wonderful opportunity to get to know all the wonderful people here!
Thanks A la prochaine, it has been fun watching you come on board and move into the mix here. You are a wonderful addition to grease spot cafe, and I want you to know how thankful I am for how you give unto this thread in such a personal way.
In the early 70'S I was in Jr. High. I remember wearing those ridiculous "gymsuits" and lying on our backs doing our exercises to the Supremes' Stop in the Name of Love and Janis Joplin's Piece of My Heart - I really thought I sounded just like Janis!!!
And when Jesus Christ Superstar came out - oh wow! I went through a few of those!!! I still remember every word (at least I think I do - having no turntable, I can't really prove it!) Oh now I've gotten myself wound up - just remembered The Who's Tommy!
Below is a quote from someone who met him and was encouraged by him to pursue their music goals. This person must have asked him a similar question.
quote: His ambition was to continue to write music and perform. He said that if he was ever fortunate enough to make it big in the music business, he would perform for a number of years, retire and just write music for other artists.
I have been thinking of the historical account of Way Productions Ted shared with us. Initially he chose 2 groups, Selah and PDSTRO.
As far as my recollections go, these two groups were very folksy/rock sounding. They had a raw sound to them which I thought was great. They were not too polished. More of a pure sound.
Then the Joyful Noise albums #1,2,3 were produced later on. This music was almost in stark contrast to the earlier music Ted spoke of.
Was this new sound because the musicians were of this style of musicianship or was this by VP's design. I always found it targeted an older audience and it had a more polished, refined sound. I never felt it targeted the age group that was then attracted to TWI.
Did VP want to attract an older crowd, or perhaps refine the tastes of the already followers of TWI?
Just a few thoughts buzzing around my head these days.
Okay, Ted's on it I see and I'm puddling along. I'll jump back to a step to the New Knoxville meeting. I was there with Cookin' Mama, from the west coast. We'd been out and about, we came in for that "Rock of Ages" concert night at the winter youth advance in ... 1971? think it was and that was our first exposure to the Way Nash. Then in the summer we did a little travel around out of California, visited Wichita, KS and played with Dove it seems like, did a club gig or two with a local band "Crank". Went to Indianapolis, IN with Lynn and played there a few nights and Good Seed with Rick Panyard were working, then hit the Way that summer for the Rock of Ages. That ran in to the NK meeting.
Afterwards we headed for New York, and played around with PDSTRO, up in Rye, and at Alley Pond Park (sp?) for a great gig I still remember where we did sets and some stuff together with Pressed Down including a kick a$$ version of "Christ is Coming" with Ralph on Hammond organ. Great time in NY, great people, Donald and Polly Lewis put my wife and I up for a couple weeks while we got our VW camper bus fixed, which had blown out an engine going in over the Throgs Neck Bridge.
C-Mama wasn't really a "ministry" band, although we were doing our own brand of Christian music and worked with Jim Doop who we'd all met prior to PFAL. Loud, and very aggressive sound. We were grads by then of course, but initially we were shooting for a commercial career. It got mixed up as time went on. We broke up at the same time the Way West was taken over by the Way Nash, and I started working with Steve Abella of Alameda, CA who I'd played with in other bands previous to the Way years. We worked up another band called "Sonrise" with Bruce Britton, Pete Miller, Mike Hughes and Mike Richie, all Californians. We went out to play at the Rock of Ages 72, Ted may remember Bruce and I met with him to talk about working with Way Prod, we had ideas and a couple sets of music. We were leaning towards a mix of secular and Christian stuff, with an idea to do mixed media, maybe theater and music together. Steve, Pete and Mike were black belt song writers and had stuff we hadn't worked up yet that was great. We hoped to work clubs and support ourselves and try a travelling caravan with the Way Nash, which had been talked about for a couple years. That didn't come together with Ted, so we headed back west. I went out WOW that year, and ended up in the Way Corps. That's the short abbreviated timeline for me up to the 4th Corps, leaves out a lot, but there's a lot better left unsaid maybe for the time being.
Those days were much different than the later years, for better or worse. We fell out with VP that summer in 71 when we hashed through our book of lyrics. We weren't writing verbatim scripture in to every song, and there was a disagreement over how to say certain things. A big disagreement, to be honest. He wanted to change them, we wanted to leave them as they were. One idea was to leave them as they lay and write other stuff that would be along the lines of what he wanted. It didn't work out at all at that time.
One thing I think about those early years that's true of all the Way Prod stuff that has stood up at all over the years is that what was written, sung and played came from the hearts and souls of the people themselves. It wasn't scripted or directed, it said what we felt and while that wasn't always crystal clear, looking back it's funny - a lot of people got the message anyway. Cookin' Mama would get 100's of people coming to our concerts when we'd throw them and a lot of them heard the message of Jesus Christ and believed. A lot of others just got stoned and danced the night away. Everybody had fun. We played clubs, often as the 2nd or 3rd billed band, the "underdog" opener spot, and our attitude regardless of who we played with was "take no prisoners". We'd open the night and leave people drained, sweaty and happy and leave it up to the headliner to figure out how to follow us. We didn't always succeed, but we always tried. No matter what, people knew we MEANT it when we played. We held our own with some interesting acts - John Lee Hooker, Robben Ford, Harvey Mandell, Boz Scaggs, the old Loading Zone with Linda Tillery, Tower of Power. We were young, but we were ready to deal. All the stuff I loved of Way Prod's music was like that in one way or another. Sonrise was no different when it came later, most of the bands and singers of that time all had that quality I think.
Wandered off there a bit, have to get back to the thread here next time...
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Well, I'm back yet again, and I think what I was trying to say in that puff of post above was that I think Mr. Ted had the right idea in how to set up Way Prod so it would be on it's own rather than a department of the Way.
Going back in my head to those early times, I think we were all heading towards developing things and it would have worked, could have worked nicely with Ted and the gang at the Way Nash doing their thing and the people in other locations doing theirs and just working together. Distinctly independent, but in cooperation with one another. Maybe do things together sometimes, mix it up, whatever.
I'd like to hear the details of what Ted's idea was, and I'd say I bet it would have really allowed everyone to develop on their own with their own ideas and "voices".
One thing you're going to get when people are passionate about their work is ego. Yup, the nasty "E" word, ego. You want that, in fact you need that kind of personal buy in and ownership to "create" something. There has to be conviction and drive to see your ideas work or they'll never get done. Hassling and haggling over them isn't a bad thing IMO, it's the way you work things out. It simply has to be tempered with an equal passion for a common goal that is shared by everyone involved. Well, it's easier to see in hindsight anyway.
Way Prod has suffered in some it's periods because the people trying to wave the wand over it don't know what they're doing. When you get people saying things like "I don't know music but I know it's just not right spiritually", you're in trouble. That's a whole nother kind of ego, and it's more dangerous than some guy thinking he just reinvented how to play an "E" chord, because it puts GOD into the whole thing and we all know there's no arguing when it's GOD telling someone how to do something. Good Lord, imagine what you'd get if someone tried to apply that approach to, uh dance or sumpin'...
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Socks you my friend have got your act together and I sure do enjoy reading what you have to add.And you always bring to the table some wise and thoughtful insight
,
Cookin' Mamma was one fine good rockin' band and what a sound you all had Wish I had a few cuts of some of the beats you were laying down
John yes my earlier vison for Way Prod.was to leave the performers in their areas and that we would do all we could to help in anyway possible Most certainly never to control or wrongly advise how they should write songs or perform.When you do that you strip away an artists creartive talents and at best they wind up as clones of those who try to put rules and regulations upon their heads. I was believing that as time would permit I would travel to any area and offer whatever knowledge I might have,not that I'm.so great but rather to give words of encougagement and support from Way Prod.I believe had I been able to follow through on that way of thinking we would have seen
some inspiring results.But that road we did not go down perhaps it was due to my own weakness that I did not insist that's s the way it should be done
Prochaine Joyful Noise worked in spite of those who tried to get their hands in the pie .For all of us it was always a learning ecperience and each one of us tried to draw the best out of each other.VP mostly kept his hands off and let ud run the show but there were times he would put his two cents worth in on certain things or ideas.
JN had very talented hard working people involved and out of those years some wonderful songs and music sprang foth.How many of you have heard socks do some of his great tunes like Brand New Way or The Grave And The Glory
Yes Jn had some very fine musicians and singers but JN had another side that perhaps we have not looked at and that is Joyful Noise was an entertaining group and were always coming up with different ideas on how to reach and touch their audience There is fine line between groups who just play music and those who put on"a show" I did not have to tell them do this or do that hey!they came up with most of what we put on stage.I was just along for the ride watching them grow by leaps and bounds and for the most part I kept my nose out of it but I did help put the program together and they did let me emcee and sing a couple of tunes now and than ha! ha!
From 1974 through 1976 we called the shots and VP had very little imput on what we sang wrote or danced After 1976 by my own choosing I left Way Prod.as director and turned the reigns over to those I considered to be very capable of taking over .Any future involment with Way Prod. that I had for a few more years was working on special projects and when those were finished it was time for me to hit the road.What came down the pike after that i don;t know much about.
I had a wonderful time got to work with some great people and build friendships that are still dear to me till this day.
Thanks for letting me share
Love To All
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 21, 2002 at 3:54.]
Wow, thank you so very much for answering my post.
SOCKS: Interesting outlook on 'Ego'. I loved hearing your side of that. I have always been attracted to musicians who have a more humble approach to their performance. Once that nasty 'E' word becomes apparent in their music, I usually move on. But, I think you are completely right. If a musician has an idea for their music, then they probably have to fight for it, or else, they are swayed and the end result is not what they wanted initially.
For so many years I followed the music of the Way with great enthousiasm. It is such a privilege to get to read all these accounts. I guess you would have called me a 'groupie'.
quote: When you get people saying things like "I don't know music but I know it's just not right spiritually", you're in trouble. That's a whole nother kind of ego, and it's more dangerous than some guy thinking he just reinvented how to play an "E" chord, because it puts GOD into the whole thing and we all know there's no arguing when it's GOD telling someone how to do something. Good Lord, imagine what you'd get if someone tried to apply
I can see how this would become a serious problem. It would definitely stiffle any 'creativity' (TWI taboo word ) in any musician.
Thanks for taking the time to share your life and heart with us, yet once again!
Oops, forgot to mention one thing: SOCKs, YOU PLAYED WITH BOZ SCAGGS - OK, NOW YOU ARE MY IDOL
BOZ SCAGGS - don't know what to say, all that comes to mind is 'WOW'.
'til the next time...
[This message was edited by A la prochaine on December 21, 2002 at 7:27.]
What excellent background heart and details shared by Socks and Ted.
I had heard ego's of leaders without a clue had mucked up the system, this before meeting Ted and during time Socks and I were not in contact with each other. So to see these men tell THE REAL STORY is most rewarding.
What a joy to at last have freedom to speak and not be fearful of consequences. And you Mr. WayGB, maybe take these men's lead and get a life outside of your control freak existence. (not to get heavy and sidetracked here, just hits my heart some on this topic)
Thanks guys, this stuff is what folks come here to read I think, even with all the awesome heart and love of all, bottom line I think they come here to see background things like these posts of yalls. And to be able to chat about their heart on it, if only in twi a short while, as music touches us all.
My love and thanks to you both for giving unto us all.
I was hoping no one would think that I thought Joyful Noise's music was not good. I just always thought it was very different than the one you had mentioned initially.
quote: How many of you have heard socks do some of his great tunes like Brand New Way or The Grave And The Glory
I remember these songs like it was yesterday. They are etched in my brain like my birthdate is. And, I'm sure I haven't heard these tunes in over 15 to 20 years.
That's what I love about music. It sticks with you. And, all the joy (and sometimes) pain it brings with it, is with you too. God really knew what he was doing when he designed music.
Done with the right heart, and the right motivation music is a healing balm and can bring you some much joy! I know, all I have to do is put a favourite piece of music on, and I'm in a different state, no matter what is going on around me.
Dear one never gave it a thought you were being critical of anyone.Yes Joyful was different and after my involment it changed a few more times. When Skip M .Danny H.and David G.came on the scene another deminsion was added that made Joyful even more different and all for the better
Think Kathy is real happy with the way we keep adding more of our thoughts on her thread.Say maybe this would be a good time to hit her up for a raise in pay ha! ha! What do you think Prochaine?
A al, here we are! Now I don't want to give the impression me and Boz were trading licks and knocking back shots at his place. After he left the Steve Miller Band he stayed in the San Francisco Bay Area and put together a band, a pretty large group with horns, etc. They played around quite a bit and we opened on some nights in the same places. It was cool to work the same little clubs, as I'd been enjoying his stuff since the first SM album, "Baby's Calling Me Home", etc from Children of the Future. He was a cool guy, never said much and always had anywhere from one to two knock-out babes on his arm when he came in. He was real laid back. Had real long hair for awhile then cut it. I watched him like a hawk. Played a big Gibson guitar. It was a great time, with some many clubs around northern Califorina and so many bands. He went on to a big pop career of course, just as Steve Miller did.
Ted, one of the things I remember most about the early JN days was the travel we did. When I tell people today I've been in every major city of every state at least once, it sounds crazy, but seems we criss crossed the ol' USA a few times. Transportation developed like everything else did.
At first we used a station wagon and a VW bus, our own cars and whatever we could stash in them. Then the Way got some fleet vans and we got to use the "green and the blue" vans, and a little trailer was added to carry the equipment. We loaded and unloaded like busy bees. Struck every room we played in that I can remember. Some great fellowship times with people after the shows at midnight, shlepping stuff out to the "vans".
The Way had some great people, I'll say that. Everywhere, just wonderful folks that loved God.
Early itineraries were up to 2-3 weeks. I remember one that was 4 weeks. The drill was always the same, drive all night to get to where we were going by trading off drivers, meet the folks where we were playing, in the evening set up, play, hang out afterwards, strike the room, pack it up and then hit the road for the next place. We learned to sleep sitting up those first couple years.
Once the van I was in had the heater go down and it was in the middle of the winter, snowing and we were hauling a$$ to make it to some city. We had another 4th corps guy along, and Janet was with us on that one. I can still remember him sitting up in the back seat in the middle of the night, frost coming out of his mouth and saying "Man, it's cold! What're you guys doing!?" We were going to the gig, man! Can't let a little thing like 10 degree cold stop us! We just wore more clothes. We did some pretty outrageous stuff those years, sometimes straggling in an hour before the show after we'd driven 12 hours in snow to get there but we always got there.
No days off on the road, that came later. The first few years the "day off" was the day we drove to the next city.
Later, when the motor coach was bought and we expanded JN and JB came onboard, it was like heaven, if sleeping in a clothes drier is heaven. I know everybody thought that coach was plush and it was nice, but travelling for 2-3 weeks with a foot between you and everyone else can be tough. The sleeping bunks were about 6 foot one, fine for me, just a tad short for Ken. We were stacked 3 to a side. Seats up front, tables. We had to learn to be extremely patient with each other and there's no guage for the patience the women had travelling that way. We had a lot of great times.
Never slept more than a half hour straight through in that coach, just about time you'd drift off we'd hit a bump. That was hard for me after a year or so, but we had great times.
Then you'd wake up and jump down to get dressed with 5 of your best friends every morning. Line up for the little bathroom and pray we weren't on a bumpy stretch of road. Coffee. More coffee. Pray, read the bible. Laugh. Man, we laughed a lot those years.
You did a good job, Ted.
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Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....
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TED Ferrell
Some of you have asked me to tell you how it all happened so without going into many details I will do my best to share my heart and involment with Way Prod.
Before we start feel that I should say once again about my friendship with VP.I did not worship nor do I worship the man.He was my friend who taught me some bible and we shared a song or two together The reason I am saying this is because his name will come up several times before I finish this story
In 1968 Mardelle (my wife at that time) got involved with The Way and very quickly started writting and performing music for and with The Way.
Two working night club entertainers that used the same style and format as we did while working in the clubs. .VP loved how we performed and for the next three years we would work in the lounges to earn some bucks so we could travel and work with The Way and VP .At no time did we ever receive any finical gain nor did we desire to do so in a way guess you could say it was our way of giving
After the closing day Of Rock Of Ages 1971 (which by the way was coined by my First Corp buddy Mike Smith we stiil are good friends till this day).VP calls a meeting for all musicians and singers to be held at the New Knoxville High School About thirty or so showed up including Preesed Down,Selah and others.The reason VP called us all together was to see if perhaps somehow we could do something productive wise with these talented people.It was decided that there would need to be a director for the music ministry as it was called then.So each man or woman who thought they could do the job took the floor and spoke.There were many grand and lengthy wonderful ideas tossed to and fro as I held my peace. Vp calls on me to share and I did so in one simple sentence "What we need to do is put our hand before the plow and go to work"
VP.Ermal and H,E.go to a room to choose who wil be the director.In a short while they came back and announced that I would be the one.I really did not want the job as I knew to some degree what I was letting myself in for.
This is kinda heavy for me so think I need a break but will continue later on tell you about how I believed Way Prod.as i called it should be set up. More on that in next post.
Love Ya!
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 17, 2002 at 19:18.]
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TED Ferrell
Right away I was aked to select two groups to invite to NK and my pick was Pressed Down and Selah
Around the first of Sept.in 1971 VP Ermal and H.E. asked me let's go for a drive into New Knoxville We pull up in front of this two story building that was vacant and went inside The bullding had been used as a egg storage warehouse and you sure could smell the chickens. The three men asked me Ted will this place do for Way Prod.I checked it over from top to bottom and said with some clean up it will do fine,The next day it was purchased and I named it The Outreach House because of a music publishing company I had in my mind called Outreach Music.
We four men talked about how I would like to set up Way Prod. I said think it would be best for Way Prod to be independent of The Way and that was oK by all. Harry W.asks me how much money do you think you will need for start up cash.I replied a thousand will do.We go over to the bank and set up an account for Way Prod. even got a big bizz. check book.So now we have a place to rehearse and live and food for the two groups would be supplied at HQ dinning room.
Right away I start thinking about paying back that thousand I got from Harry W. I knew that Rock Of Ages 71 had all been recorded by a prof studio from Dayton and I had the reel to reel tapes.So I invited Mike Smith to go to Dayton studio and help edit those tapes so we could make a highlights album of ROA 71 which we did. I orderd one thousand records to be pressed from master tape and while they were being pressed went to Em Allen and told her abour the albums and asked how many would she like at three dollars per album she ordered five hundred and Way Prod had just made a thousand dollar profit during the next few weeks I sold another five hundred for a fifteen hundred dollar profit Now we had some money in the bank and I had payed half off on the loan from H.E.
Pressed Down And Selah are there by now and we have cleaned up our building till it was spic and span and both groups are rehearsing and composing tunes to beat the band and The Outreach House was a rocking
A couple or so months later things changed and the vision I had for Way Prod died one cold December night as Way Prod. became a dept.of The Way .This was not VP's actual doing but rather pressure was being brought to bare from the leadership of the east and west coast and from both music groups
Will wind this topic up on next post and move back to the music of the seventies
I hope you can understand this post and that I was able to clearly explain how most of it came down
Love To All
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 18, 2002 at 2:06.]
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TED Ferrell
In mid December of 1971 The decision was made that Pressed Down and Selah were ready to go into the studio and record.That decision was smade on a cold December night to put the wheels in motion because both groups were strainging at the bit to get in the studio I was somwewaht hesitant because I knew the money it would take be around ten thousand dollars and at present Way Prod.did not have even near enough to cover the cost.Plus because of the size of The Way at that time I knew it would be a long time before we could break even So I came to the conclusion Way Prod. would be better seved as a twi dept. and so that phase of Way Prod. was over
In Jan. and Feb. of 1972 both Pressed Down and Selah recorded and for 1972 both of those albums were darn good Better than most christian music that was on the market.Pressed down went back to NY.after recording was finished. Selah stayed around for a few more months to do some road programs with me for The Way. As 1972 came to a close both groups were back in their home areas.
I returned to the night club scene In 1973 and worked the rest of the year on the road.In Dec.of 73 while doing a gig in Louisville Ky. VP called me and said I have a bunch of musicians here in the Fourth Corp and I don't know what to do with them maybe you will know .There was dead silence on the phone for a few seconds till I said gee! I don't know about that V.P.my answer right now is no. He kept talking and asked well at least will you drive up here and talk to me.I had two days off on that booking so I drove up to NK and listened to what he had to say.I'm an easy mark so on Jan 13 1974 I walked out on the stage of a little theater in Minster Ohio and said God Bless You and Welcome To Joyful Noise and the rest is history.I loved working with all of those very talented men and women hey socks that includes you and Janet and I would not have missed the good times music and songs we shared for all the tea in china.
I have told you in part how it all began and now perhaps socks will fill in some of the rest of Way Prod.
That's All Folks On This Topic
Love To All
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 18, 2002 at 3:50.]
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ChattyKathy
Ted,
THANK YOU!!!!!
One of the things I love about this forum is the opportunity to know the real story. One that is spoken by the ones who lived it, and is not hindered in the telling of it by control freak twi leaders. If you tried to tell that story while in TWI, you would have had some stupid little snot-nosed who doesn't know his *** from a whole in the ground leader going "well maybe it was really like this or that". arrggggg
Thank you for the details, they were fascinating. And Socks, please give us some goodies on this as well. Please.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And as far as my posting too much, well I decided, screw it....this is free cyberspace and I still have way too much to say to allow myself to be held back in my words here. I left here and played some in open and music forums. Then saw QQ had a thread that just grabbed my attention. I just still have too much to say, so folks read me or pass me over, your call. But I ain't going anywhere.
Kathy
edited to add this: being of the feisty mindset I am today I decided to alter the name of this thread, was pretty confident it was not going to confused with another one at this point.
[This message was edited by ChattyKathy on December 18, 2002 at 5:53.]
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Zixar
Coming into TWI so late, I really regret never having heard any of these musicians, like PDSTRO, Selah, and Joyful Noise. Sigh.
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A la prochaine
It was great going down memory lane with you!
Chatty,
Please post away! We need you at GS!
I love this thread! And you started it! So if you weren't around, I would not have had the wonderful opportunity to get to know all the wonderful people here!
Don't hold back, we did too much of that in TWI!
'til the next time...
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ChattyKathy
Thanks A la prochaine, it has been fun watching you come on board and move into the mix here. You are a wonderful addition to grease spot cafe, and I want you to know how thankful I am for how you give unto this thread in such a personal way.
Kathy
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bowtwi
In the early 70'S I was in Jr. High. I remember wearing those ridiculous "gymsuits" and lying on our backs doing our exercises to the Supremes' Stop in the Name of Love and Janis Joplin's Piece of My Heart - I really thought I sounded just like Janis!!!
And when Jesus Christ Superstar came out - oh wow! I went through a few of those!!! I still remember every word (at least I think I do - having no turntable, I can't really prove it!) Oh now I've gotten myself wound up - just remembered The Who's Tommy!
Ah, the music of the 70's - a joy to my heart!
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ChattyKathy
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A la prochaine
Jim Croce.
Great artist, sad ending.
I love listening to his music. I have sometimes wondered what type of music he would of been producing if he were still alive today.
Just a thought.
'til the next time...
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ChattyKathy
Below is a quote from someone who met him and was encouraged by him to pursue their music goals. This person must have asked him a similar question.
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A la prochaine
I have been thinking of the historical account of Way Productions Ted shared with us. Initially he chose 2 groups, Selah and PDSTRO.
As far as my recollections go, these two groups were very folksy/rock sounding. They had a raw sound to them which I thought was great. They were not too polished. More of a pure sound.
Then the Joyful Noise albums #1,2,3 were produced later on. This music was almost in stark contrast to the earlier music Ted spoke of.
Was this new sound because the musicians were of this style of musicianship or was this by VP's design. I always found it targeted an older audience and it had a more polished, refined sound. I never felt it targeted the age group that was then attracted to TWI.
Did VP want to attract an older crowd, or perhaps refine the tastes of the already followers of TWI?
Just a few thoughts buzzing around my head these days.
'til the next time...
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socks
Looks like some strange network path...
Okay, Ted's on it I see and I'm puddling along. I'll jump back to a step to the New Knoxville meeting. I was there with Cookin' Mama, from the west coast. We'd been out and about, we came in for that "Rock of Ages" concert night at the winter youth advance in ... 1971? think it was and that was our first exposure to the Way Nash. Then in the summer we did a little travel around out of California, visited Wichita, KS and played with Dove it seems like, did a club gig or two with a local band "Crank". Went to Indianapolis, IN with Lynn and played there a few nights and Good Seed with Rick Panyard were working, then hit the Way that summer for the Rock of Ages. That ran in to the NK meeting.
Afterwards we headed for New York, and played around with PDSTRO, up in Rye, and at Alley Pond Park (sp?) for a great gig I still remember where we did sets and some stuff together with Pressed Down including a kick a$$ version of "Christ is Coming" with Ralph on Hammond organ. Great time in NY, great people, Donald and Polly Lewis put my wife and I up for a couple weeks while we got our VW camper bus fixed, which had blown out an engine going in over the Throgs Neck Bridge.
C-Mama wasn't really a "ministry" band, although we were doing our own brand of Christian music and worked with Jim Doop who we'd all met prior to PFAL. Loud, and very aggressive sound. We were grads by then of course, but initially we were shooting for a commercial career. It got mixed up as time went on. We broke up at the same time the Way West was taken over by the Way Nash, and I started working with Steve Abella of Alameda, CA who I'd played with in other bands previous to the Way years. We worked up another band called "Sonrise" with Bruce Britton, Pete Miller, Mike Hughes and Mike Richie, all Californians. We went out to play at the Rock of Ages 72, Ted may remember Bruce and I met with him to talk about working with Way Prod, we had ideas and a couple sets of music. We were leaning towards a mix of secular and Christian stuff, with an idea to do mixed media, maybe theater and music together. Steve, Pete and Mike were black belt song writers and had stuff we hadn't worked up yet that was great. We hoped to work clubs and support ourselves and try a travelling caravan with the Way Nash, which had been talked about for a couple years. That didn't come together with Ted, so we headed back west. I went out WOW that year, and ended up in the Way Corps. That's the short abbreviated timeline for me up to the 4th Corps, leaves out a lot, but there's a lot better left unsaid maybe for the time being.
Those days were much different than the later years, for better or worse. We fell out with VP that summer in 71 when we hashed through our book of lyrics. We weren't writing verbatim scripture in to every song, and there was a disagreement over how to say certain things. A big disagreement, to be honest. He wanted to change them, we wanted to leave them as they were. One idea was to leave them as they lay and write other stuff that would be along the lines of what he wanted. It didn't work out at all at that time.
One thing I think about those early years that's true of all the Way Prod stuff that has stood up at all over the years is that what was written, sung and played came from the hearts and souls of the people themselves. It wasn't scripted or directed, it said what we felt and while that wasn't always crystal clear, looking back it's funny - a lot of people got the message anyway. Cookin' Mama would get 100's of people coming to our concerts when we'd throw them and a lot of them heard the message of Jesus Christ and believed. A lot of others just got stoned and danced the night away. Everybody had fun. We played clubs, often as the 2nd or 3rd billed band, the "underdog" opener spot, and our attitude regardless of who we played with was "take no prisoners". We'd open the night and leave people drained, sweaty and happy and leave it up to the headliner to figure out how to follow us. We didn't always succeed, but we always tried. No matter what, people knew we MEANT it when we played. We held our own with some interesting acts - John Lee Hooker, Robben Ford, Harvey Mandell, Boz Scaggs, the old Loading Zone with Linda Tillery, Tower of Power. We were young, but we were ready to deal. All the stuff I loved of Way Prod's music was like that in one way or another. Sonrise was no different when it came later, most of the bands and singers of that time all had that quality I think.
Wandered off there a bit, have to get back to the thread here next time...
-------------------------------------
Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....
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ChattyKathy
YAHOO.....SOCKS CAME BACK!!!!!
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socks
Gee, it's nice to be appreciated, CK!
Well, I'm back yet again, and I think what I was trying to say in that puff of post above was that I think Mr. Ted had the right idea in how to set up Way Prod so it would be on it's own rather than a department of the Way.
Going back in my head to those early times, I think we were all heading towards developing things and it would have worked, could have worked nicely with Ted and the gang at the Way Nash doing their thing and the people in other locations doing theirs and just working together. Distinctly independent, but in cooperation with one another. Maybe do things together sometimes, mix it up, whatever.
I'd like to hear the details of what Ted's idea was, and I'd say I bet it would have really allowed everyone to develop on their own with their own ideas and "voices".
One thing you're going to get when people are passionate about their work is ego. Yup, the nasty "E" word, ego. You want that, in fact you need that kind of personal buy in and ownership to "create" something. There has to be conviction and drive to see your ideas work or they'll never get done. Hassling and haggling over them isn't a bad thing IMO, it's the way you work things out. It simply has to be tempered with an equal passion for a common goal that is shared by everyone involved. Well, it's easier to see in hindsight anyway.
Way Prod has suffered in some it's periods because the people trying to wave the wand over it don't know what they're doing. When you get people saying things like "I don't know music but I know it's just not right spiritually", you're in trouble. That's a whole nother kind of ego, and it's more dangerous than some guy thinking he just reinvented how to play an "E" chord, because it puts GOD into the whole thing and we all know there's no arguing when it's GOD telling someone how to do something. Good Lord, imagine what you'd get if someone tried to apply that approach to, uh dance or sumpin'...
---------------------------
Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....
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TED Ferrell
Socks you my friend have got your act together and I sure do enjoy reading what you have to add.And you always bring to the table some wise and thoughtful insight
,
Cookin' Mamma was one fine good rockin' band and what a sound you all had Wish I had a few cuts of some of the beats you were laying down
John yes my earlier vison for Way Prod.was to leave the performers in their areas and that we would do all we could to help in anyway possible Most certainly never to control or wrongly advise how they should write songs or perform.When you do that you strip away an artists creartive talents and at best they wind up as clones of those who try to put rules and regulations upon their heads. I was believing that as time would permit I would travel to any area and offer whatever knowledge I might have,not that I'm.so great but rather to give words of encougagement and support from Way Prod.I believe had I been able to follow through on that way of thinking we would have seen
some inspiring results.But that road we did not go down perhaps it was due to my own weakness that I did not insist that's s the way it should be done
Prochaine Joyful Noise worked in spite of those who tried to get their hands in the pie .For all of us it was always a learning ecperience and each one of us tried to draw the best out of each other.VP mostly kept his hands off and let ud run the show but there were times he would put his two cents worth in on certain things or ideas.
JN had very talented hard working people involved and out of those years some wonderful songs and music sprang foth.How many of you have heard socks do some of his great tunes like Brand New Way or The Grave And The Glory
Yes Jn had some very fine musicians and singers but JN had another side that perhaps we have not looked at and that is Joyful Noise was an entertaining group and were always coming up with different ideas on how to reach and touch their audience There is fine line between groups who just play music and those who put on"a show" I did not have to tell them do this or do that hey!they came up with most of what we put on stage.I was just along for the ride watching them grow by leaps and bounds and for the most part I kept my nose out of it but I did help put the program together and they did let me emcee and sing a couple of tunes now and than ha! ha!
From 1974 through 1976 we called the shots and VP had very little imput on what we sang wrote or danced After 1976 by my own choosing I left Way Prod.as director and turned the reigns over to those I considered to be very capable of taking over .Any future involment with Way Prod. that I had for a few more years was working on special projects and when those were finished it was time for me to hit the road.What came down the pike after that i don;t know much about.
I had a wonderful time got to work with some great people and build friendships that are still dear to me till this day.
Thanks for letting me share
Love To All
Ted F.
[This message was edited by TED Ferrell on December 21, 2002 at 3:54.]
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A la prochaine
Wow, thank you so very much for answering my post.
SOCKS: Interesting outlook on 'Ego'. I loved hearing your side of that. I have always been attracted to musicians who have a more humble approach to their performance. Once that nasty 'E' word becomes apparent in their music, I usually move on. But, I think you are completely right. If a musician has an idea for their music, then they probably have to fight for it, or else, they are swayed and the end result is not what they wanted initially.
For so many years I followed the music of the Way with great enthousiasm. It is such a privilege to get to read all these accounts. I guess you would have called me a 'groupie'.
I can see how this would become a serious problem. It would definitely stiffle any 'creativity' (TWI taboo word ) in any musician.
Thanks for taking the time to share your life and heart with us, yet once again!
Oops, forgot to mention one thing: SOCKs, YOU PLAYED WITH BOZ SCAGGS - OK, NOW YOU ARE MY IDOL
BOZ SCAGGS - don't know what to say, all that comes to mind is 'WOW'.
'til the next time...
[This message was edited by A la prochaine on December 21, 2002 at 7:27.]
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ChattyKathy
What excellent background heart and details shared by Socks and Ted.
I had heard ego's of leaders without a clue had mucked up the system, this before meeting Ted and during time Socks and I were not in contact with each other. So to see these men tell THE REAL STORY is most rewarding.
What a joy to at last have freedom to speak and not be fearful of consequences. And you Mr. WayGB, maybe take these men's lead and get a life outside of your control freak existence. (not to get heavy and sidetracked here, just hits my heart some on this topic)
Thanks guys, this stuff is what folks come here to read I think, even with all the awesome heart and love of all, bottom line I think they come here to see background things like these posts of yalls. And to be able to chat about their heart on it, if only in twi a short while, as music touches us all.
My love and thanks to you both for giving unto us all.
Kathy
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A la prochaine
Thank you once again as well!
I was hoping no one would think that I thought Joyful Noise's music was not good. I just always thought it was very different than the one you had mentioned initially.
I remember these songs like it was yesterday. They are etched in my brain like my birthdate is. And, I'm sure I haven't heard these tunes in over 15 to 20 years.
That's what I love about music. It sticks with you. And, all the joy (and sometimes) pain it brings with it, is with you too. God really knew what he was doing when he designed music.
Done with the right heart, and the right motivation music is a healing balm and can bring you some much joy! I know, all I have to do is put a favourite piece of music on, and I'm in a different state, no matter what is going on around me.
Thanks Ted!
'til the next time...
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TED Ferrell
Dear one never gave it a thought you were being critical of anyone.Yes Joyful was different and after my involment it changed a few more times. When Skip M .Danny H.and David G.came on the scene another deminsion was added that made Joyful even more different and all for the better
Think Kathy is real happy with the way we keep adding more of our thoughts on her thread.Say maybe this would be a good time to hit her up for a raise in pay ha! ha! What do you think Prochaine?
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socks
A al, here we are! Now I don't want to give the impression me and Boz were trading licks and knocking back shots at his place. After he left the Steve Miller Band he stayed in the San Francisco Bay Area and put together a band, a pretty large group with horns, etc. They played around quite a bit and we opened on some nights in the same places. It was cool to work the same little clubs, as I'd been enjoying his stuff since the first SM album, "Baby's Calling Me Home", etc from Children of the Future. He was a cool guy, never said much and always had anywhere from one to two knock-out babes on his arm when he came in. He was real laid back. Had real long hair for awhile then cut it. I watched him like a hawk. Played a big Gibson guitar. It was a great time, with some many clubs around northern Califorina and so many bands. He went on to a big pop career of course, just as Steve Miller did.
Ted, one of the things I remember most about the early JN days was the travel we did. When I tell people today I've been in every major city of every state at least once, it sounds crazy, but seems we criss crossed the ol' USA a few times. Transportation developed like everything else did.
At first we used a station wagon and a VW bus, our own cars and whatever we could stash in them. Then the Way got some fleet vans and we got to use the "green and the blue" vans, and a little trailer was added to carry the equipment. We loaded and unloaded like busy bees. Struck every room we played in that I can remember. Some great fellowship times with people after the shows at midnight, shlepping stuff out to the "vans".
The Way had some great people, I'll say that. Everywhere, just wonderful folks that loved God.
Early itineraries were up to 2-3 weeks. I remember one that was 4 weeks. The drill was always the same, drive all night to get to where we were going by trading off drivers, meet the folks where we were playing, in the evening set up, play, hang out afterwards, strike the room, pack it up and then hit the road for the next place. We learned to sleep sitting up those first couple years.
Once the van I was in had the heater go down and it was in the middle of the winter, snowing and we were hauling a$$ to make it to some city. We had another 4th corps guy along, and Janet was with us on that one. I can still remember him sitting up in the back seat in the middle of the night, frost coming out of his mouth and saying "Man, it's cold! What're you guys doing!?" We were going to the gig, man! Can't let a little thing like 10 degree cold stop us! We just wore more clothes. We did some pretty outrageous stuff those years, sometimes straggling in an hour before the show after we'd driven 12 hours in snow to get there but we always got there.
No days off on the road, that came later. The first few years the "day off" was the day we drove to the next city.
Later, when the motor coach was bought and we expanded JN and JB came onboard, it was like heaven, if sleeping in a clothes drier is heaven. I know everybody thought that coach was plush and it was nice, but travelling for 2-3 weeks with a foot between you and everyone else can be tough. The sleeping bunks were about 6 foot one, fine for me, just a tad short for Ken. We were stacked 3 to a side. Seats up front, tables. We had to learn to be extremely patient with each other and there's no guage for the patience the women had travelling that way. We had a lot of great times.
Never slept more than a half hour straight through in that coach, just about time you'd drift off we'd hit a bump. That was hard for me after a year or so, but we had great times.
Then you'd wake up and jump down to get dressed with 5 of your best friends every morning. Line up for the little bathroom and pray we weren't on a bumpy stretch of road. Coffee. More coffee. Pray, read the bible. Laugh. Man, we laughed a lot those years.
You did a good job, Ted.
--------------------------
Is the time/space meter needle supposed to be jumping around like that? *tap-tap*...sqwrkltpzfttt@#$%^&!!!!!!.....
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ChattyKathy
Okay yall, now I have things to do in the house, and you are making it impossible for me to leave this screen.
And Ted, maybe we will come up with something worth a few bucks in our music writing, you can have your raise in pay then. LMAO
I am going to alter the name of this again to showcase Way Prod more now.
But gotta get away from this screen for a bit now.
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A la prochaine
Raise? I'm not even on the payroll!
I'm gonna' have a word with that Chatty lady!
'til the next time...
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ChattyKathy
A la prochaine,
Okay you can have your first paycheck when we hit paydirt okeedokee.
BTW, just got your awesome card and pic's of the kids. Much love and thanks for it.
Okay now I am really leaving, was just passing my office and had to peek in, yall have this magnetic thing going on here.
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