I also agree with Imblvr. Some secular music can be very inspiring. Also nothing wrong with a song that might touch our loneliness or emptyness etc. Dont want to hear songs that touch my naughtiness though. Anyone with insight can tell the difference between songs that are spiritually clean and those that are not. Never heard a Stones or Sabbath song that was spiritually clean.
That is part of the coolness of being able to think on our own though, right? Knowing we have the insight to know what is clean and what is not. Versus having someone else tell us that.
And I take it you are referring to naughtiness in the sense of sexual, especially since the Stones include that in their music a lot (I don't know Sabbath's stuff). But isn't that part of what makes us up, sensuality. Where we go with it again is up to our responsible thinking.
But I am not trying to tell you that you need to listen to artists you believe to be spritiual dark, I am only stating examination of what it is about their stuff that we do not like can aid in our building our base of knowledge and confidence.
Sacred vs. Secular is an artificial designation. Nothing in reality is divided up that way.
I used to be ashamed of my love of and education in the humanities. I was wrongly influenced to think that if it wasn't sacred, and then beyond that, the rightly divided brand of sacred it was a waste of time.
If some lyric of Black Sabbath speaks of the despair of existence without Christ is it not valuable on some level?
I would agree there is value to it yes. How many times does the opposite of what we think cause our brains to fuller understand what it is we value. All the time for myself.
As well as I am not ashamed of what termed secular music inspires in me. Gosh how boring if I only listened to things someone deemed appropriate for me. Yuck.
Well, Chwester, I'd agree with you that Black Sabbath was always a pretty pi$$ poor band outside of the guitarists who came through it, Randy Rhoads, Jake Lee, Zak Wylde, can't recall any others right off.
IMO Ozzie O was and is a sad-sack "performer" who sounds like a bad case of nasal drip. (ducking bananas from the BS fans!) I dunno, they never moved me. I figured, if Satan is actually using fat a$$es like Ozzie to pump his stuff, he's pretty hard up. But then your average televangelist has roast rump too. I just never took them seriously. Like, if they think that's evil, they need to take a walk through the neighborhood I grew up in and see a guided tour of hell.
Anyway, that's my yearly BS rant. :P-->
I don't understand this though: "Any music you listen to is definitely going to have an effect on the listener. Just as any food you eat is going to effect the eater."
Any music? Has an effect? How do you figure?
Music isn't like glue, it doesn't stick to our brains just because we hear it. I'm not sure what you mean. I'm taking it you're talking about pop music and "songs"? Also. instrumental music is a while different ballgame in my book, it required a much more engaged body and mind.
Granted, if I hear lyrics about killing hamsters or abusing ducks, I turn it off right away but in general, I'm not sure what you mean...?
Great point about evil in regards to walking thru your neighborhood.
Recognizing what we do or don't like is critical in every aspect of life. But if I don't allow myself to know the range of what this world offers however will I know the difference.
Some of us had different experiences with houses of God (twi, whatever) and still partook of things to expand and confirm our belief system. But some of us allowed a man to dictate and for that I say throw if off the highest mountain and sing a song. Hmmmm didn't imablvr mention one. :)-->
Confidence gained is life lived IMO. More and more I am understanding that concept.
What I mean is "garbage in-garbage out". You are what you eat-mentally as well. You are influenced by what you take in. The reason homosexuality is becoming accepted by our society is because we are being told by the media that it is ok. Secular tv and movies, newspaper articles, magazines all say that homosexuality is ok and people see and read all that crap all the time and start to agree with it. You spend lots of time with negative people and you will become negative. What you dwell on will rub off on you. That's why parents are concerned about who their kids run around with.
A-ha! There ya go, Oakspear, thanks. I thought they were BS'ers. There goes that small bit of appreciation. :P-->
Chwester, I see what you're saying. I got tripped up on the food/music comparison, but I think I get what you're saying.
I'd compare music differently to eating food, though. Hearing music may be more like rubbing an apple on my head than it would be like eating it. Maybe.
In fact, I suggest a test. Let's all rub cake on our heads, the real high calorie stuff, and see if we gain weight. It may take several pieces to get it right. In further fact, let's all rub cake on each OTHERS heads and see who gains weight! Who wants to be first?? :)-->
(Chatty reaches for her classic Clapton CD set and runs for the door as sock pelts out two, count 'em TWO football size cupcakes at her!!!!)
To Chwester: Did you ever see a post on Waydale about "God's Jukebox". It was a discussion I had started about "spiritual songs by secular bands." Black Sabbath did a song in 1971 called "After Forever" that was a Christian song. Ozzy sang "Well I've seen the truth and I've seen the light and I've changed my ways."
I must also mention that on the "Beggar's Banquet" LP the Stones did a cover of Rev. Gary Davis' song "Prodigal Son" based on the famous parable.
Awwwww, Chatty...please? please please please please please please please???? Just one?????? I'll personally polish to perfection each and ever cd, removing all stickiness. :P--> (releasing barrage of marshmallows - spak spak spak spoink!)
Not to change the subject from cake and Ozzie, but I just listened to some GREAT music, Amanda Marshall. (thanks A la! :)--> ) Nice stuff, had never heard her before. Last month it was Jann Arden, I was on her cd for a week like sticky on a stamp.
I am also now a dyed in the wool Great Big Sea fan. Those Newfies have a great sound, full of big guitars, lotsa life.
Got tickets to see Nora Jones in August! Yae!! Picked them up the night before she scooped up all those Grammies! And tickets to see the Moody Blues, March 27th. Never saw those guys in the 60's or 70's so I'm hoping it will be a great night of music with fine friends.
"nights in white satin"....doo doo doo doo dooooo.... :)-->
Tom's(no kidding)Bedtime CD Pick:Volume 4 by Black Sabbath
Okay, Sabbath may not have been the best musicians out there, but Volume 4 had it's moments: Ozzie hadn't totally slid into the cesspool of drugs and alcohol yet, and there are some decent instrumentals; FX, Laguna Sunrise, St. Vitus Dance.
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
So you like Amanda Marshall! You're very welcome Sir Socks...
Hey, how come I didn't get invited into the food fight??? :(-->
TICKETS TO SEE NORAH JONES...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
You got tickets...and didn't invite me ... moi, #1 Norah Jones groupie ~ who sent out I don't know how many CD's to beloved GSers who had never heard of her! Oh my God... I think you should have at least called me from your house and asked if it were ok if you could purchase those. Really! -->
I'm crushed :(-->
:D-->
'til the next time...
Socks likes Great Big Sea!!! Yeah! Lets go have some Screeeeeeeeeech....
[This message was edited by A la prochaine on March 06, 2003 at 6:50.]
Poor old Freddie Mercury - bizarre as they come - but he had a great voice.
I recently burned a CD that has mostly vocal rock group songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Your Move" by Yes. Big sounds, long songs. Great for driving!
Have you noticed that songs written in 3/4 time tend to be more "catchy" than most? Maybe it's me - but I tend to remember them easier.
Haven't posted here in ages - too much to catch up on.
Socks, heck you know I can?t refuse you a cupcake. You take as many as you would like. But can I go with you to see the Moody Blues, please....pretty please. They were a fav of mine back in those days, yes sure was.
Ala, I think Norah Jones should share at least one of those puppies with you, heck I didn't know her before you and certainly had no idea she was Ravi Shankar?s kid either.
Hope, on my goodness you're going to see the Dixie Chicks. Who is going with you? Those tickets sold out so fast in this neck of the woods you would have had to sleep in line, or on line one.
What fun last night around here...even if Socks went wild. :P--> ;)-->
You got Dixie Chicks? I would love to see 'em but not at a hockey rink. Now, if they had gone to Ruth Eckerd......... I've got tickets to see Mary Chapin Carpenter (again). Great venue, great acoustics.
Trying to get my buddies, Trick Pony to reschedule their Strawberry Festival appearance at Ruth Eckerd. I guess I'll get to find out how close buddies we are if they accept or not.
As for music, the most fascinating twi item, for me, was the work that, was her name- Beth? did on color, minerals, notes on the musical scale. I still have a copy of her concordance on the shelf. The furtherest I ever explored the spiritual side of music was that I could not name you an earthly event that was not based on rhythm, tone, etc. Like the rotation of the earth has a certain meter; our heart beats at a certain meter; etc.
Welcome and thanks for your first post in this thread. I won't ask you if you went back and read this whole gig, I think that would take about 5 hours at this point. :D-->
masterherbalist,
You are buddies with Trick Pony? Well my goodness ain't that fun. I never went to Ruth Eckerd before, is that named after the drug store founder there in that state? My son use to work in their main lab putting drugs together in a locked room...ha ha.
You hit the nail on the head in your saying music is in every earthly event..rhythm, tone, etc. Music can talk to our hearts like nothing else can. I was telling someone the other night some of my favorite moments is to drive the back roads at night alone with the moon on the road ahead of me and a song playing loud and me singing along with it. I am completely alone then, no one knows I exist and it is like my piece of heaven. It soothes my heart like nothing else can, and at those times I believe even more there is a huge God up there.
Oak,
You are too fun...thanks for popping in all the time.
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chwester
I also agree with Imblvr. Some secular music can be very inspiring. Also nothing wrong with a song that might touch our loneliness or emptyness etc. Dont want to hear songs that touch my naughtiness though. Anyone with insight can tell the difference between songs that are spiritually clean and those that are not. Never heard a Stones or Sabbath song that was spiritually clean.
Prochaine-sorry that you are sorry for me.
Didnt intend to make anyone feel sorry.
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ChattyKathy
chwester,
That is part of the coolness of being able to think on our own though, right? Knowing we have the insight to know what is clean and what is not. Versus having someone else tell us that.
And I take it you are referring to naughtiness in the sense of sexual, especially since the Stones include that in their music a lot (I don't know Sabbath's stuff). But isn't that part of what makes us up, sensuality. Where we go with it again is up to our responsible thinking.
But I am not trying to tell you that you need to listen to artists you believe to be spritiual dark, I am only stating examination of what it is about their stuff that we do not like can aid in our building our base of knowledge and confidence.
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Yanagisawa
Sacred vs. Secular is an artificial designation. Nothing in reality is divided up that way.
I used to be ashamed of my love of and education in the humanities. I was wrongly influenced to think that if it wasn't sacred, and then beyond that, the rightly divided brand of sacred it was a waste of time.
If some lyric of Black Sabbath speaks of the despair of existence without Christ is it not valuable on some level?
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ChattyKathy
Yana,
I would agree there is value to it yes. How many times does the opposite of what we think cause our brains to fuller understand what it is we value. All the time for myself.
As well as I am not ashamed of what termed secular music inspires in me. Gosh how boring if I only listened to things someone deemed appropriate for me. Yuck.
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socks
Well, Chwester, I'd agree with you that Black Sabbath was always a pretty pi$$ poor band outside of the guitarists who came through it, Randy Rhoads, Jake Lee, Zak Wylde, can't recall any others right off.
IMO Ozzie O was and is a sad-sack "performer" who sounds like a bad case of nasal drip. (ducking bananas from the BS fans!) I dunno, they never moved me. I figured, if Satan is actually using fat a$$es like Ozzie to pump his stuff, he's pretty hard up. But then your average televangelist has roast rump too. I just never took them seriously. Like, if they think that's evil, they need to take a walk through the neighborhood I grew up in and see a guided tour of hell.
Anyway, that's my yearly BS rant.
:P-->
I don't understand this though: "Any music you listen to is definitely going to have an effect on the listener. Just as any food you eat is going to effect the eater."
Any music? Has an effect? How do you figure?
Music isn't like glue, it doesn't stick to our brains just because we hear it. I'm not sure what you mean. I'm taking it you're talking about pop music and "songs"? Also. instrumental music is a while different ballgame in my book, it required a much more engaged body and mind.
Granted, if I hear lyrics about killing hamsters or abusing ducks, I turn it off right away but in general, I'm not sure what you mean...?
-----------------------------
quack
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ChattyKathy
Socks,
Great point about evil in regards to walking thru your neighborhood.
Recognizing what we do or don't like is critical in every aspect of life. But if I don't allow myself to know the range of what this world offers however will I know the difference.
Some of us had different experiences with houses of God (twi, whatever) and still partook of things to expand and confirm our belief system. But some of us allowed a man to dictate and for that I say throw if off the highest mountain and sing a song. Hmmmm didn't imablvr mention one.
:)-->
Confidence gained is life lived IMO. More and more I am understanding that concept.
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chwester
Socks-
What I mean is "garbage in-garbage out". You are what you eat-mentally as well. You are influenced by what you take in. The reason homosexuality is becoming accepted by our society is because we are being told by the media that it is ok. Secular tv and movies, newspaper articles, magazines all say that homosexuality is ok and people see and read all that crap all the time and start to agree with it. You spend lots of time with negative people and you will become negative. What you dwell on will rub off on you. That's why parents are concerned about who their kids run around with.
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Oakspear
Socks:
Rhodes et al were not part of Black Sabbath, but Osbourne's post-Sabbath band. Tony Iommi was Black Sabbath's only guitarist.
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
Henri Poincare
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socks
A-ha! There ya go, Oakspear, thanks. I thought they were BS'ers. There goes that small bit of appreciation.
:P-->
Chwester, I see what you're saying. I got tripped up on the food/music comparison, but I think I get what you're saying.
I'd compare music differently to eating food, though. Hearing music may be more like rubbing an apple on my head than it would be like eating it. Maybe.
In fact, I suggest a test. Let's all rub cake on our heads, the real high calorie stuff, and see if we gain weight. It may take several pieces to get it right. In further fact, let's all rub cake on each OTHERS heads and see who gains weight! Who wants to be first??
:)-->
(Chatty reaches for her classic Clapton CD set and runs for the door as sock pelts out two, count 'em TWO football size cupcakes at her!!!!)
-----------------------------
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socks
socks apologizes in advance and arrears for the above post as he wipes cake out of his hair.
;)-->
-----------------------------
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chwester
Socks-
You are wacked! Too much heavy metal! LOL
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socks
You may be right Chwester! haa!
-----------------------------
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ChattyKathy
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ChattyKathy
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TOMMYZ
To Chwester: Did you ever see a post on Waydale about "God's Jukebox". It was a discussion I had started about "spiritual songs by secular bands." Black Sabbath did a song in 1971 called "After Forever" that was a Christian song. Ozzy sang "Well I've seen the truth and I've seen the light and I've changed my ways."
I must also mention that on the "Beggar's Banquet" LP the Stones did a cover of Rev. Gary Davis' song "Prodigal Son" based on the famous parable.
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socks
Awwwww, Chatty...please? please please please please please please please???? Just one?????? I'll personally polish to perfection each and ever cd, removing all stickiness.
:P--> (releasing barrage of marshmallows - spak spak spak spoink!)
Not to change the subject from cake and Ozzie, but I just listened to some GREAT music, Amanda Marshall. (thanks A la!
:)--> ) Nice stuff, had never heard her before. Last month it was Jann Arden, I was on her cd for a week like sticky on a stamp. 
I am also now a dyed in the wool Great Big Sea fan. Those Newfies have a great sound, full of big guitars, lotsa life.
Got tickets to see Nora Jones in August! Yae!! Picked them up the night before she scooped up all those Grammies! And tickets to see the Moody Blues, March 27th. Never saw those guys in the 60's or 70's so I'm hoping it will be a great night of music with fine friends.
"nights in white satin"....doo doo doo doo dooooo....
:)-->
-----------------------------
quack
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Oakspear
Tom's(no kidding)Bedtime CD Pick:Volume 4 by Black Sabbath
Okay, Sabbath may not have been the best musicians out there, but Volume 4 had it's moments: Ozzie hadn't totally slid into the cesspool of drugs and alcohol yet, and there are some decent instrumentals; FX, Laguna Sunrise, St. Vitus Dance.
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
Henri Poincare
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A la prochaine
Socks,
So you like Amanda Marshall! You're very welcome Sir Socks...
Hey, how come I didn't get invited into the food fight???
:(-->
TICKETS TO SEE NORAH JONES...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
You got tickets...and didn't invite me ... moi, #1 Norah Jones groupie ~ who sent out I don't know how many CD's to beloved GSers who had never heard of her! Oh my God... I think you should have at least called me from your house and asked if it were ok if you could purchase those. Really!
-->
I'm crushed
:(-->
'til the next time...
Socks likes Great Big Sea!!! Yeah! Lets go have some Screeeeeeeeeech....
[This message was edited by A la prochaine on March 06, 2003 at 6:50.]
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Hope R.
"I see a little silhouetto of a man
Scaramouch, scaramouch will you do the fandango?"
Poor old Freddie Mercury - bizarre as they come - but he had a great voice.
I recently burned a CD that has mostly vocal rock group songs like "Bohemian Rhapsody" and "Your Move" by Yes. Big sounds, long songs. Great for driving!
Have you noticed that songs written in 3/4 time tend to be more "catchy" than most? Maybe it's me - but I tend to remember them easier.
Haven't posted here in ages - too much to catch up on.
Hope R. color>size>face>
P.S. Got my Dixie Chicks tix for May!!! Hooray!
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ChattyKathy
Socks, heck you know I can?t refuse you a cupcake. You take as many as you would like. But can I go with you to see the Moody Blues, please....pretty please. They were a fav of mine back in those days, yes sure was.
Ala, I think Norah Jones should share at least one of those puppies with you, heck I didn't know her before you and certainly had no idea she was Ravi Shankar?s kid either.
Hope, on my goodness you're going to see the Dixie Chicks. Who is going with you? Those tickets sold out so fast in this neck of the woods you would have had to sleep in line, or on line one.
What fun last night around here...even if Socks went wild.
:P--> 
;)-->
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Oakspear
okay, sorry about the Black Sabbath thing
:P-->, but I really do like the Volume 4 and Paranoid albums.
Tonights Tom's Bedtime CD Pick: is The Allman Brothers' Eat A Peach
no commentary needed
:D-->
Oakspear
"We...know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling"
Henri Poincare
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rustedduck
That was so cool! Thanks for taking the time to write it all down.
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masterherbalist
HOPE R:
You got Dixie Chicks? I would love to see 'em but not at a hockey rink. Now, if they had gone to Ruth Eckerd......... I've got tickets to see Mary Chapin Carpenter (again). Great venue, great acoustics.
Trying to get my buddies, Trick Pony to reschedule their Strawberry Festival appearance at Ruth Eckerd. I guess I'll get to find out how close buddies we are if they accept or not.
As for music, the most fascinating twi item, for me, was the work that, was her name- Beth? did on color, minerals, notes on the musical scale. I still have a copy of her concordance on the shelf. The furtherest I ever explored the spiritual side of music was that I could not name you an earthly event that was not based on rhythm, tone, etc. Like the rotation of the earth has a certain meter; our heart beats at a certain meter; etc.
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ChattyKathy
rustedduck,
Welcome and thanks for your first post in this thread. I won't ask you if you went back and read this whole gig, I think that would take about 5 hours at this point.
:D-->
masterherbalist,
You are buddies with Trick Pony? Well my goodness ain't that fun. I never went to Ruth Eckerd before, is that named after the drug store founder there in that state? My son use to work in their main lab putting drugs together in a locked room...ha ha.
You hit the nail on the head in your saying music is in every earthly event..rhythm, tone, etc. Music can talk to our hearts like nothing else can. I was telling someone the other night some of my favorite moments is to drive the back roads at night alone with the moon on the road ahead of me and a song playing loud and me singing along with it. I am completely alone then, no one knows I exist and it is like my piece of heaven. It soothes my heart like nothing else can, and at those times I believe even more there is a huge God up there.
Oak,
You are too fun...thanks for popping in all the time.
Morning to yall fine folks.
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