Wayne, that's quite a story but by your own words it is a rumor. Outside of a suicide note or some other revealing circumstance(s) one may never know why this young lady committed suicide. I am sorry for Al and his family that it happened, no matter what the reasons may have been. Obviously she was very troubled to have done this.
I'm very sorry hear about that young girl. I was also a WOW in 82-83. I remember hearing the rumor a few years later but not the bestiality video thing. Jeez, that's a hard one to believe but I was never part of the "inner sanctum".
I think there are those who would attest to the fact that VPW had sex with young girls and I do know personally of one person who committed suicide because of obsessive guilt from their association with the way, it wasn't a girl however.
And it is a fact that Mr. Wierwille did show a bestiality video to our whole Corps group. I saw it at least twice. Howard was there too. It was two lesbians and a dog. I never quite understood why we were being shown this disgusting video. Maybe it was to show devil spirits in action or something.
Once while it was being played he made the comment that "if you want to please a woman just look at the way these two women please each other". Most of us in the room were single.
[This message was edited by igotout on October 17, 2002 at 23:04.]
I was in the 13th Corps with Rochelle. She was badly injured in the accident at Tinnie where a crosswind hit the truck loaded with Corps folks after LEAD, on their way back down to the main road. Many Corps were thrown from the truck. (Did their mamas never tell those LEAD coordinators how unsafe it is to ride in the back of a truck on a bumpy road????) She spent most of our first year in-residence at the Indiana Campus, getting treatment for the dental and other injuries she received. That much I know ... all of the rest I read on a former thread of Waydale, and I do not remember it.
As for the bestiality film, they may have shown it at the Indiana Campus during our first year in-residence (while Rochelle was there), but it was NOT shown at Emporia where I was in the 13th Corps. I am sure I would have remembered that.
The bestiality film was shown at Emporia to the corps and college program your last year in residence. 84-85. It made me sick to my stomach, and I almost had to leave the room. VP showed it while he was on campus reading through the book "Bedside Manners" and teaching CFS to the corps.
I was very close to Rochelle, in fact she called me the night before she left H.Q.
Rochelle was in her last year in-residence when she committed suicide after leaving H.Q. I was on staff at H.Q. at that time.
Anyone who knew Rochelle knew she had a history of attempted suicide and suicidal tendencies. She was very open about this to those who knew her. JAL had not wanted her to come back after her interim year, they felt she needed a little more time to "mature." Rochelle insisted.
When they went out lightbearers, Rochelle had gone with another believer to see a fortune teller, she had tremendous guilt about this when she came back, we discussed it. She also had the pressure of her research paper, which was not going well. She was also through all of this, in great pain and was on constant painkillers for her neck and other injuries suffered in the accident. She would also feel guilty that she was not living up to the standards of the corps. I spent hours with her. Oddly enough, before she died, she seemed very at peace. She said God had been showing her a lot about the Hope.
Then, she got thrown out of the Corps - it was a shot out of the blue, very quick and fast. They decided LOA would be best for her. She was devasted. I do not know the specific reasons why. She was supposed to leave, I think on a Monday morning or something after seeing the leadership (MF). She was very good friends with another guy from Emporia who was also leaving and going LOA. Not wanting to suffer the embarrassment and humiliation of staying, she left with him. Now the rest I know because I asked him personally, he knew how close we were and so told me the whole story.
Rochelle was going LOA and was to drive to her brother's house in Connecticut where he was a leader there. Anyway, Rochelle was young, cute and loved cute guys - i.e., a normal young girl. She offered to take the corps guy to Indiana. I think she didn't want to be alone just then. They stayed at the limb home a few days while he made arrangements to get to Kansas. She was very depressed during this time and the limb people were not very nice to her and wanted her to hit the road. In a state of depression she leaves.
She makes it to my town, Columbus, Ohio. That's as far as she got. My father called me after seeing the article in the Columbus Dispatch of her suicide in the motel. I drive past that place every day to and from work now - room 34. Anyway, her brother called me at H.Q. and gave me the news. We talked. It seems Rochelle had quite a few pain pills, was alone in the hotel room and decided to do end her life. She killed herself with her painkiller pills. She was found on the floor of the hotel room.
After her death, the Trustees lied and said she had been entertaining a guy there. Anything to smear her name. She had been alone.
After Al called I went to see MF, the corps coordinator. I was furious. I asked how, knowing her history - or that he should have known - they could have just let her go like that? Or how could they not call the limb home and make sure someone was with her or have her brother come get her? Its a long lonely ride from Indiana to Connecticut on your own in that state of mind. MF was annoyed at me, how dare I butt in. I asked how he could have let this happen. He said it wasn't his fault and didn't seem to particularly care. I then told him that he had her blood and death on his hands. I still believe that to this day - he in particular. Plus any other leadership who made this decision and those in Indiana.
He was not a happy camper after that. I'm surprised I wasn't thrown off staff. It still boggles my mind they just got rid of her, no follow up. MF said she disobeyed because she was supposed to wait and leave later. Right, like this young girl, in depression and suffering the humiliation of leaving her corps, is going to stick around for more BS verbal abuse from the leadership. I would have left too. People don't understand if you were corps, the total humiliation of not "cutting it." Keep that in mind.
But for those to try to smear her good name, memory and life, especially with perverted sex rumors or that she was sexually loose or promiscuous, keep in mind these are lies - lies started by the Trustees, one in particular.
As far as I know she was never with VPW, if she was, it would have been just one more thing to push her over the edge. But, she was a sweet young woman, who I believe if had been handled with love and compassion instead of hardness and cruelty would still be here today.
after reading this sad story, i again am reminded how thankful i should be that i didnt, after being accepted into the corpse, go. the treatment i saw of many people in the way wasnt right . people in churches were treated better than this.im happy i ended up doing what i did and am doing. how much bondage we submitted ourselves to.
In the 1989-94 era, when the way was hurtin' for corp candidates, you think they would have been
a-little-sweet.
In my experience, as soon as they found out you wanted to go in the corps, they got their claws out, and showed their true colors.
It was obvious, right in your face, as soon as you sent in the application, you immediately became a flawed believer, who THEY were gonna straighten out.
SO glad we wrote um back and said: Thanks, but no thanks!!!
its too bad about that woman who committed suicide. ill bet shes not the only one we havnt heard about.
seems they couldve done things a little different with her somehow. ya never know whats going on in someones heart.
she evidently didnt fit into someones scheme at the way.
she was an outcast i guess.
outcast from the way. given over to the devil i guess
kicked out of the corpse.
i ran into some STALE CHRISTIANS to day and was happy that i wasnt like that any longer. kinda shallow was their talk, no personality and kinda ignorant too.
no thanks. ill continue being happy being hedonistic, anti way nazi number 666. ha ha.
i hope some of you can see the humor i enjoy.
ive got more love and understanding than most of em stirred together and fried. and i know it . thats the really fun part .
The animal sex video is true. He showed it to the 7th Corps at Emporia in one of those late evening meetings, and as I recall, the college people were locked out of the room, since of course, you had to be spiritual to "handle it". I had no idea how much he must have used the video. He commented on how beautiful the women were, how the dog had more sense than the women as he didn't want any part of it, and how you could learn from the women by watching them. All the time drinking his Drambuie and smoking Kool shorts.
Thank you for sharing the true story with us. It's always good to have the truth. Unfortunately it's just more proof that twi has been a heartless, self-serving, cover-your-own-butt organization for a whole lotta years.
Sunesis, thank you for setting the record straight with honesty and compassion. I've forgotten a lot of the people I briefly knew during my time with The Way International, but I can remember Rochelle's smiling face as if it were yesterday. She was the good friend of a casual friend of mine. I never heard about the accident, or heard so little I forgot it. There should have been lawsuits against The Way for negligence, and putting those kids at risk. I know they or their parents probably signed releases, but one lawyer tells me that releases aren't worth much in a civil court. How many other former Corps kids are still coping with injuries they suffered in that accident? The Way International is a corporation and they bear the liability for these things, and for the pain and suffering of Rochelle's devastated family. They dumped her out on her own (to "mature" of all things - what was the Corps supposed to be about?) and when she couldn't go on, she took her own life and they smeared her name to cover their own tracks. How ugly those people are. How cruel. How heartless.
"You don't really live until you find something worth dying for." - Jesus
Rochelle was a very sweet person, though I did not know her well.
The whole suicide in the way issue is very big with me; a young man I was very fond of killed himself in his late 20s. Based on conversations I had with him, I very much blame the way leadership. More on that later, I have to get my thoughts together.
This other issue about the dog tape: I know I saw it, and I think it was at a CF&S class vpw taught at a way summer camp on Shelter Island, NY in the early/mid 70s. I would have been all of 15 or 16 at the time. Was anyone else there? I may be getting the timing of my memories all mixed up, but I'm pretty sure it was there. I also remember the line that the dog had more sense than the women.
I can't recall which poster(s) refer to vpw as Sick Vic, but I'm likin' that name more all the time, as the greasespot brings back and helps me deal with memories and wounds.
Of courses in "the world" a negligence suit would be appropriate.
But we are Bible believin' folk and the Doctrine, as prescribed in I Cor, is that believers should never, ever, ever take other believers to court.
Never mind the circumstances in Corinth, or in the Way, pertaining to this matter. The Church Doctrine is set in Paul's letter. That's what God said, that's what he meant.
quote:This other issue about the dog tape: I know I saw it, and I think it was at a CF&S class vpw taught at a way summer camp on Shelter Island, NY in the early/mid 70s. I would have been all of 15 or 16 at the time. Was anyone else there? I may be getting the timing of my memories all mixed up, but I'm pretty sure it was there. I also remember the line that the dog had more sense than the women.
Bookworm,
Are you referring to the 1 week camp immediately after the PFAL camp, in July of 1973? I was at the PFAL camp there, I believe it was the first week in July, then the second week was the CFS camp which I didn't attend. I do remember VPW coming into the last session of PFAL, and leading all the grads there into SIT. Were you there too?
I do remember attending a CFS camp that same year, in December of 1973 in NY, but I don't think it was Shelter Island, I think it was someplace else near LI, but I forget now. But strange enough, I don't remember seeing the bestiality tape. It could have been viewed, I just don't remember it. So I probably didn't see it as that's something I would have remembered, probably. LOL!
I was there, too. It was the summer of '72. (couldn't have been '73... I was at HQ's that whole summer). I was SEVENTEEN years old!
I remember VP told us that he had only shown it to the Corps and if any of us weren't comfortable, we could get up and leave and it would be no problem. I did. So did my friend Carol C. and a few more of us. We were grossed out and freaked out.
We saw it again in-rez - our last year I think. That time I HAD to sit through it. I was sitting with Kris C. way in the back of the top floor Wierwille. Someone near us started to sing "and they call it 'puppy love'", and we had one of those laughing fits that you can't stop. That's what I think of when I think of that stupid film.
Hey, bookworm, drop me a line. We must know one another.
Oldiesman - the other CF&S camp was in Pauling at the YWCA center. That I remember well because it snowed like crazy and my car skidded all the way up there (or maybe it was back).
I didn't go to the PFAL camp. Went to CF&S, then Walter came to teach Renewed Mind and Dealing with the Adversary. I was there for those 3 week.
We must know each other as well.
Sunesis - thank you very much for your post. It must have been very hard for you.
Hope R. color>size>face>
"Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now" - Stephen Stills
Bob - of course we were both there and Sunesis too, having all been in the 7th Corps. I was in my usual spot in the back of the room where one could sleep easier. I saw many of the women just covering their eyes in disgust.
And remember the uncomfortable, dead silence in the room? I got the sense that most everyone could not wait until it was over.
Some thoughts that later crossed my mind and still do:
___________________________________________
Where did he get this video and under what circumstances?
Why would he carry it around on the motorcoach with him (where there was a video player in the back bedroom area)?
Had he shown it to others such as LCM and other top leadership including other women in top leadership positions?
Why was not Mrs. Wierwille present to witness this video? Had she seen it and did she know her husband was showing it to us?
Why were we not given an option to stay or leave the meeting if we did not care to watch this filth? We could have been warned in advance that it contents and encouraged not to watch if we did not care to be exposed to this material. If I recall these were very imoprtant Night Owls when VPW was visiting. You simply did not consider NOT being present for his every word.
Did he explore the possible legal ramifications possessing and showing this bestiality video to hundreds of single young men and women, 99% of whom had never been exposed such gross pornography?
I also saw the sintillating video, but don't remember when. Probably in res & during the in res CF&S class. Sure was a good looking pooch ...
How the he** did we ever think a lot of the stuff we were exposed to was gonna make us better leaders (servants) ???? Maybe VP in Me thought we all were gonna have twigs/areas where the women mated with animals (HIGHLY probable, huh??).
Some of you will remember J & D Tyler. I was with them in Milwaukee when D did her suicide. I think the ministry really did permenently & negetively affect many sweet, wonderful people. Those responsible SHOULD receive consequences now AND at the return ...
How many others have to DIE before some will WAKE UP???????
I don't think you know me but of course I know you. I always thought you were a popular celebrity in TWI, with your singing and all.
Regarding the bestiality film, I guess it's one of those things we definitely could have done without, like so many other things. "Myth of the 6 Million" comes to mind. Other things like that just don't contribute to moving the Word and only make matters worse in the long run.
yes, John, all those seem like perfectly honest, reasonable questions--funny how they didn't seem to get asked way back when. So much of it all goes to "in for a dime, in for a dollar". and, boy, were us kork schlubs in for some serious dollars--materially and metaphorically.
Sunesis, the more I learn of MF and his actions over the years, the more disgusted I am to have ever known him. Trustees sure musta loved a good duck and cover shield like him, I bet. I find myself asking God for forgiveness for being so blind and naive for so long--God, how I rationalized and avoided what little I did know.
Well, justice will be done--this I believe. If not in this world, in the one to come...
Hope and Oldies, that must be the year. You both have memories better than mine.
I had just turned 15. There were a lot of young teenagers there. What a sicko! There was a lot of nasty, borderline and over the line porn in that class. I don't remember being told we could leave during the fido film, though I'm sure we were, and fool that I was I stayed. Musta wanted them to think I was real spiritual. At 15!
Memory flash!: vpw's daughter Sara was there, no? She was my age or a year younger maybe?
I think I was there for the whole 3 weeks, helped with children's camp for PFAL, and maybe with the other classes as well.
Well, the sad thing about Rochelle's suicide is her brother was really the only relative she had. They had fled Russia. I don't remember if her father had deserted them, but I know he wasn't in the picture and Rochelle had grown up with a mom who had been in and out of institutions. It was a terrible home situation.
So, TWI was literally the only family she had. Leadership knew this. Its on their hands.
As far as the porno videos, VPW had, when he showed them, especially the doggie one, I wondered the same thing - what was the MOG doing with this trash? He enjoyed it. He enjoyed watching the kids' expressions too I think.
I remember when I was on staff at Emporia and they showed it to the, I think it was 12th corps. 11th or 12th. That was the last time he ever showed it. They were very, very vocal in their disgust, berated JAL, and no explanation the leadership gave did any good. The corps weren't buying it. They were very angry, many of them sickened. I was very glad to see them do this and I think the leadership was kind of surprised.
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igotout
Wayne, that's quite a story but by your own words it is a rumor. Outside of a suicide note or some other revealing circumstance(s) one may never know why this young lady committed suicide. I am sorry for Al and his family that it happened, no matter what the reasons may have been. Obviously she was very troubled to have done this.
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grasshopper
Welcome Wayne,
I'm very sorry hear about that young girl. I was also a WOW in 82-83. I remember hearing the rumor a few years later but not the bestiality video thing. Jeez, that's a hard one to believe but I was never part of the "inner sanctum".
I think there are those who would attest to the fact that VPW had sex with young girls and I do know personally of one person who committed suicide because of obsessive guilt from their association with the way, it wasn't a girl however.
What a world.
hopper
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igotout
And it is a fact that Mr. Wierwille did show a bestiality video to our whole Corps group. I saw it at least twice. Howard was there too. It was two lesbians and a dog. I never quite understood why we were being shown this disgusting video. Maybe it was to show devil spirits in action or something.
Once while it was being played he made the comment that "if you want to please a woman just look at the way these two women please each other". Most of us in the room were single.
[This message was edited by igotout on October 17, 2002 at 23:04.]
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ToadFriend
I was in the 13th Corps with Rochelle. She was badly injured in the accident at Tinnie where a crosswind hit the truck loaded with Corps folks after LEAD, on their way back down to the main road. Many Corps were thrown from the truck. (Did their mamas never tell those LEAD coordinators how unsafe it is to ride in the back of a truck on a bumpy road????) She spent most of our first year in-residence at the Indiana Campus, getting treatment for the dental and other injuries she received. That much I know ... all of the rest I read on a former thread of Waydale, and I do not remember it.
As for the bestiality film, they may have shown it at the Indiana Campus during our first year in-residence (while Rochelle was there), but it was NOT shown at Emporia where I was in the 13th Corps. I am sure I would have remembered that.
TF
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TheHighWay
ToadFriend,
The bestiality film was shown at Emporia to the corps and college program your last year in residence. 84-85. It made me sick to my stomach, and I almost had to leave the room. VP showed it while he was on campus reading through the book "Bedside Manners" and teaching CFS to the corps.
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Sunesis
I was very close to Rochelle, in fact she called me the night before she left H.Q.
Rochelle was in her last year in-residence when she committed suicide after leaving H.Q. I was on staff at H.Q. at that time.
Anyone who knew Rochelle knew she had a history of attempted suicide and suicidal tendencies. She was very open about this to those who knew her. JAL had not wanted her to come back after her interim year, they felt she needed a little more time to "mature." Rochelle insisted.
When they went out lightbearers, Rochelle had gone with another believer to see a fortune teller, she had tremendous guilt about this when she came back, we discussed it. She also had the pressure of her research paper, which was not going well. She was also through all of this, in great pain and was on constant painkillers for her neck and other injuries suffered in the accident. She would also feel guilty that she was not living up to the standards of the corps. I spent hours with her. Oddly enough, before she died, she seemed very at peace. She said God had been showing her a lot about the Hope.
Then, she got thrown out of the Corps - it was a shot out of the blue, very quick and fast. They decided LOA would be best for her. She was devasted. I do not know the specific reasons why. She was supposed to leave, I think on a Monday morning or something after seeing the leadership (MF). She was very good friends with another guy from Emporia who was also leaving and going LOA. Not wanting to suffer the embarrassment and humiliation of staying, she left with him. Now the rest I know because I asked him personally, he knew how close we were and so told me the whole story.
Rochelle was going LOA and was to drive to her brother's house in Connecticut where he was a leader there. Anyway, Rochelle was young, cute and loved cute guys - i.e., a normal young girl. She offered to take the corps guy to Indiana. I think she didn't want to be alone just then. They stayed at the limb home a few days while he made arrangements to get to Kansas. She was very depressed during this time and the limb people were not very nice to her and wanted her to hit the road. In a state of depression she leaves.
She makes it to my town, Columbus, Ohio. That's as far as she got. My father called me after seeing the article in the Columbus Dispatch of her suicide in the motel. I drive past that place every day to and from work now - room 34. Anyway, her brother called me at H.Q. and gave me the news. We talked. It seems Rochelle had quite a few pain pills, was alone in the hotel room and decided to do end her life. She killed herself with her painkiller pills. She was found on the floor of the hotel room.
After her death, the Trustees lied and said she had been entertaining a guy there. Anything to smear her name. She had been alone.
After Al called I went to see MF, the corps coordinator. I was furious. I asked how, knowing her history - or that he should have known - they could have just let her go like that? Or how could they not call the limb home and make sure someone was with her or have her brother come get her? Its a long lonely ride from Indiana to Connecticut on your own in that state of mind. MF was annoyed at me, how dare I butt in. I asked how he could have let this happen. He said it wasn't his fault and didn't seem to particularly care. I then told him that he had her blood and death on his hands. I still believe that to this day - he in particular. Plus any other leadership who made this decision and those in Indiana.
He was not a happy camper after that. I'm surprised I wasn't thrown off staff. It still boggles my mind they just got rid of her, no follow up. MF said she disobeyed because she was supposed to wait and leave later. Right, like this young girl, in depression and suffering the humiliation of leaving her corps, is going to stick around for more BS verbal abuse from the leadership. I would have left too. People don't understand if you were corps, the total humiliation of not "cutting it." Keep that in mind.
But for those to try to smear her good name, memory and life, especially with perverted sex rumors or that she was sexually loose or promiscuous, keep in mind these are lies - lies started by the Trustees, one in particular.
As far as I know she was never with VPW, if she was, it would have been just one more thing to push her over the edge. But, she was a sweet young woman, who I believe if had been handled with love and compassion instead of hardness and cruelty would still be here today.
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itchley
after reading this sad story, i again am reminded how thankful i should be that i didnt, after being accepted into the corpse, go. the treatment i saw of many people in the way wasnt right . people in churches were treated better than this.im happy i ended up doing what i did and am doing. how much bondage we submitted ourselves to.
marywonni
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Lightside
In the 1989-94 era, when the way was hurtin' for corp candidates, you think they would have been
a-little-sweet.
In my experience, as soon as they found out you wanted to go in the corps, they got their claws out, and showed their true colors.
It was obvious, right in your face, as soon as you sent in the application, you immediately became a flawed believer, who THEY were gonna straighten out.
SO glad we wrote um back and said: Thanks, but no thanks!!!
This became the biginning of the end for us.
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itchley
its too bad about that woman who committed suicide. ill bet shes not the only one we havnt heard about.
seems they couldve done things a little different with her somehow. ya never know whats going on in someones heart.
she evidently didnt fit into someones scheme at the way.
she was an outcast i guess.
outcast from the way. given over to the devil i guess
kicked out of the corpse.
i ran into some STALE CHRISTIANS to day and was happy that i wasnt like that any longer. kinda shallow was their talk, no personality and kinda ignorant too.
no thanks. ill continue being happy being hedonistic, anti way nazi number 666. ha ha.
i hope some of you can see the humor i enjoy.
ive got more love and understanding than most of em stirred together and fried. and i know it .
thats the really fun part 
.
and I JUST WANT TO BE HAPPY.
marywonni
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Bob Lunsford/7th Way Corps
The animal sex video is true. He showed it to the 7th Corps at Emporia in one of those late evening meetings, and as I recall, the college people were locked out of the room, since of course, you had to be spiritual to "handle it". I had no idea how much he must have used the video. He commented on how beautiful the women were, how the dog had more sense than the women as he didn't want any part of it, and how you could learn from the women by watching them. All the time drinking his Drambuie and smoking Kool shorts.
Very sick stuff.
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FreshAir 99
Yes, vpw was the "proud owner" of an animal sex video. I saw it too.
Having never seen such perversion......it struck me as really odd that vpw needed/wanted to show this to the corps.
To this day......I WISH I'D NEVER GONE CORPS.
Fresh
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TheHighWay
Sunesis...
Thank you for sharing the true story with us. It's always good to have the truth. Unfortunately it's just more proof that twi has been a heartless, self-serving, cover-your-own-butt organization for a whole lotta years.
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QamiQazi
Sunesis, thank you for setting the record straight with honesty and compassion. I've forgotten a lot of the people I briefly knew during my time with The Way International, but I can remember Rochelle's smiling face as if it were yesterday. She was the good friend of a casual friend of mine. I never heard about the accident, or heard so little I forgot it. There should have been lawsuits against The Way for negligence, and putting those kids at risk. I know they or their parents probably signed releases, but one lawyer tells me that releases aren't worth much in a civil court. How many other former Corps kids are still coping with injuries they suffered in that accident? The Way International is a corporation and they bear the liability for these things, and for the pain and suffering of Rochelle's devastated family. They dumped her out on her own (to "mature" of all things - what was the Corps supposed to be about?) and when she couldn't go on, she took her own life and they smeared her name to cover their own tracks. How ugly those people are. How cruel. How heartless.
"You don't really live until you find something worth dying for." - Jesus
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bookworm
Rochelle was a very sweet person, though I did not know her well.
The whole suicide in the way issue is very big with me; a young man I was very fond of killed himself in his late 20s. Based on conversations I had with him, I very much blame the way leadership. More on that later, I have to get my thoughts together.
This other issue about the dog tape: I know I saw it, and I think it was at a CF&S class vpw taught at a way summer camp on Shelter Island, NY in the early/mid 70s. I would have been all of 15 or 16 at the time. Was anyone else there? I may be getting the timing of my memories all mixed up, but I'm pretty sure it was there. I also remember the line that the dog had more sense than the women.
I can't recall which poster(s) refer to vpw as Sick Vic, but I'm likin' that name more all the time, as the greasespot brings back and helps me deal with memories and wounds.
bookworm
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Yanagisawa
Of courses in "the world" a negligence suit would be appropriate.
But we are Bible believin' folk and the Doctrine, as prescribed in I Cor, is that believers should never, ever, ever take other believers to court.
Never mind the circumstances in Corinth, or in the Way, pertaining to this matter. The Church Doctrine is set in Paul's letter. That's what God said, that's what he meant.
Do not stray from the Litigation Doctrine.
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oldiesman
Bookworm,
Are you referring to the 1 week camp immediately after the PFAL camp, in July of 1973? I was at the PFAL camp there, I believe it was the first week in July, then the second week was the CFS camp which I didn't attend. I do remember VPW coming into the last session of PFAL, and leading all the grads there into SIT. Were you there too?
I do remember attending a CFS camp that same year, in December of 1973 in NY, but I don't think it was Shelter Island, I think it was someplace else near LI, but I forget now. But strange enough, I don't remember seeing the bestiality tape. It could have been viewed, I just don't remember it. So I probably didn't see it as that's something I would have remembered, probably. LOL!
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Hope R.
I was there, too. It was the summer of '72. (couldn't have been '73... I was at HQ's that whole summer). I was SEVENTEEN years old!
I remember VP told us that he had only shown it to the Corps and if any of us weren't comfortable, we could get up and leave and it would be no problem. I did. So did my friend Carol C. and a few more of us. We were grossed out and freaked out.
We saw it again in-rez - our last year I think. That time I HAD to sit through it. I was sitting with Kris C. way in the back of the top floor Wierwille. Someone near us started to sing "and they call it 'puppy love'", and we had one of those laughing fits that you can't stop. That's what I think of when I think of that stupid film.
Hey, bookworm, drop me a line. We must know one another.
Oldiesman - the other CF&S camp was in Pauling at the YWCA center. That I remember well because it snowed like crazy and my car skidded all the way up there (or maybe it was back).
I didn't go to the PFAL camp. Went to CF&S, then Walter came to teach Renewed Mind and Dealing with the Adversary. I was there for those 3 week.
We must know each other as well.
Sunesis - thank you very much for your post. It must have been very hard for you.
Hope R. color>size>face>
"Don't let the past remind us of what we are not now" - Stephen Stills
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igotout
Bob - of course we were both there and Sunesis too, having all been in the 7th Corps. I was in my usual spot in the back of the room where one could sleep easier. I saw many of the women just covering their eyes in disgust.
And remember the uncomfortable, dead silence in the room? I got the sense that most everyone could not wait until it was over.
Some thoughts that later crossed my mind and still do:
___________________________________________
Where did he get this video and under what circumstances?
Why would he carry it around on the motorcoach with him (where there was a video player in the back bedroom area)?
Had he shown it to others such as LCM and other top leadership including other women in top leadership positions?
Why was not Mrs. Wierwille present to witness this video? Had she seen it and did she know her husband was showing it to us?
Why were we not given an option to stay or leave the meeting if we did not care to watch this filth? We could have been warned in advance that it contents and encouraged not to watch if we did not care to be exposed to this material. If I recall these were very imoprtant Night Owls when VPW was visiting. You simply did not consider NOT being present for his every word.
Did he explore the possible legal ramifications possessing and showing this bestiality video to hundreds of single young men and women, 99% of whom had never been exposed such gross pornography?
John Richeson
7th Corps survivor
Tampa, FL
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tomtuttle
I also saw the sintillating video, but don't remember when. Probably in res & during the in res CF&S class. Sure was a good looking pooch ...
How the he** did we ever think a lot of the stuff we were exposed to was gonna make us better leaders (servants) ???? Maybe VP in Me thought we all were gonna have twigs/areas where the women mated with animals (HIGHLY probable, huh??).
Some of you will remember J & D Tyler. I was with them in Milwaukee when D did her suicide. I think the ministry really did permenently & negetively affect many sweet, wonderful people. Those responsible SHOULD receive consequences now AND at the return ...
How many others have to DIE before some will WAKE UP???????
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oldiesman
Hope,
I don't think you know me but of course I know you. I always thought you were a popular celebrity in TWI, with your singing and all.
Regarding the bestiality film, I guess it's one of those things we definitely could have done without, like so many other things. "Myth of the 6 Million" comes to mind. Other things like that just don't contribute to moving the Word and only make matters worse in the long run.
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alfakat
yes, John, all those seem like perfectly honest, reasonable questions--funny how they didn't seem to get asked way back when. So much of it all goes to "in for a dime, in for a dollar". and, boy, were us kork schlubs in for some serious dollars--materially and metaphorically.
Sunesis, the more I learn of MF and his actions over the years, the more disgusted I am to have ever known him. Trustees sure musta loved a good duck and cover shield like him, I bet. I find myself asking God for forgiveness for being so blind and naive for so long--God, how I rationalized and avoided what little I did know.
Well, justice will be done--this I believe. If not in this world, in the one to come...
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QamiQazi
From "A Child's Garden Of Verse," re-edited by Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille of The Way International:
"Old mother Hubbard went to the cupboard to fetch her poor dog a bone
But when she bent over old Rover took over and gave her a --- of his own."
I've read some Greasespot articles and threads, but this thing makes me wonder what else was going on.
"You don't really live until you find something worth dying for." - Jesus
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bookworm
Hope and Oldies, that must be the year. You both have memories better than mine.
I had just turned 15. There were a lot of young teenagers there. What a sicko! There was a lot of nasty, borderline and over the line porn in that class. I don't remember being told we could leave during the fido film, though I'm sure we were, and fool that I was I stayed. Musta wanted them to think I was real spiritual. At 15!
Memory flash!: vpw's daughter Sara was there, no? She was my age or a year younger maybe?
I think I was there for the whole 3 weeks, helped with children's camp for PFAL, and maybe with the other classes as well.
Jeepers Creepers,
bookworm
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Sunesis
Well, the sad thing about Rochelle's suicide is her brother was really the only relative she had. They had fled Russia. I don't remember if her father had deserted them, but I know he wasn't in the picture and Rochelle had grown up with a mom who had been in and out of institutions. It was a terrible home situation.
So, TWI was literally the only family she had. Leadership knew this. Its on their hands.
As far as the porno videos, VPW had, when he showed them, especially the doggie one, I wondered the same thing - what was the MOG doing with this trash? He enjoyed it. He enjoyed watching the kids' expressions too I think.
I remember when I was on staff at Emporia and they showed it to the, I think it was 12th corps. 11th or 12th. That was the last time he ever showed it. They were very, very vocal in their disgust, berated JAL, and no explanation the leadership gave did any good. The corps weren't buying it. They were very angry, many of them sickened. I was very glad to see them do this and I think the leadership was kind of surprised.
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