I ignored idiots , I ignored foolish people I ignored peole trashing their families and their life for twi . cant stop them they had a mission from God!
seriously I watched folks damage themselves for twi alot but I couldnt stop them I tried to talk to my friends but they felt it was what God" had them do. and it is their life.
do not twist that to say I ignored child molestations cool waters.
thank you for posting that. I said that in response to your reply about leaders ignoring and they did they didnt care about anyone but their own agenda at the time .
Many ill came to twi, and it did get to a point where the movement of the word had to come before helping those who had such troubles. it was the pfal class they sold not a protective agency against the wiles of the world. if people were so sick they could not protect or take care of their own families, because twi came first(which I saw alot ) who has the problem? who can stop that type of thinking? and naturally when these families fell apart and bad things happened they got hurt.
but try to stop some of those people that lived in proverty to attend another class or or left their kids alot to please the leaders. it was impossible if they thought they had a mission from God. so i did ignore them . it was better than joining in and now having to sing sad songs about how I was also used and abused by trusting the wring people or making huge gaping wrong choices in life.
Steve you are correct....It is pointless to try to converse with one who refuses to hear.
I hate how oldies and mj have successfully (yet gain) derailed an imprtant thread...
It does no good to try to reason with them because it simply drags things further off track.
I am dissapointed that they have turned the attention away (once again) from the perpetrators and pointed the finger of blame at the innocents hurt...can`t even use the word *victim* here anymore because they have turned it into meaning something nasty and weak.
They have done it successfully with every important thread regarding abuse in twi.
MJ, your haha attitude still did not answer my questions to you. Was your leadership door one of the doors which was knocked on by one of these troubled stupid ignorant followers asking for help?
You wreak of evil thoughts trying to tear down others when you are quickly complying to the prince of this world. He surely is laughing at you now and patting himself on the back at your actions and support of him.
Your actions are typical of TWI's evil and the outcome of one who does not seek counsel.
Can you or won't you answer my questions with some answer other than your glory of calling people stupid and ignorant?
mj, how can anyone twist what you say? you meander all over, you write in stream of consciousness as if you are stone drunk, you don't allow complete thoughts to form before you start typing. It's just screen diarrhea. Oh, "diarrhea" means runny poop.
You only think that you think. You don't have a head, your neck's just blowing bubbles.
The main nurse in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". If you have seen the movie or read the book, you might think my post was funny. Otherwise it makes no sense...and it's hard to explain.
I saw people compromising every single area of their life in twi. "
". A parent is responsible for the safety of their children not twi that is the point everyone seems to disagree with. I saw people compromise their families and self in every area of life , I have said that from post one on this thread. the problem is when you ask people to be accountable for their own behaviours and choices of who to seek consel from and obey by choice then blame them when your life goes sour. "
"now if you have private conversation and listen to the advice of someone you went to that was different.. it was chapter and verse please remember? "
"some of you will never get to the point you realize why or how it happened other than saying tomy told me to jump off a bridge so I did and now im drowning because of him. and half the time tommy never even told you to jump off the bridge anyway you decided to do it and then blamed tommy for it !"
"Is it twi ordered parents to now beat your children or more like troubled stupid ignorant people got involved in twi with many personal problems and in sick relationships and poor backgrounds knocked on the leaders door and said this is my life in the gutter please fix it but I do not really know or want to know what the bible says much less apply it to my own personal life? "
"you can not see it is exactly how those who fell victim in twi got fooled . not me tho so sorry it make you FEEl angry."
I have yet to see a poster in this thread deny responsibility for their actions, exept you MJ, who claims to have not been fooled.
However,MJ, you let your own marriage end over TWI. (I know this because you have said so in posts here at Greasespot). It is not us who haven't dealt with our actions and choices, it is YOU. You point fingers at us, because you haven't faced it yourself. Either you haven't forgiven yourself yet, because that would require admitting to yourself what you have done; or you haven't forgiven yourself yet because the process of forgiving yourself would also require understanding why you did what you did. This in turn would require you to understand that these people you put your trust in used and deceived you; and if you let them use and decieve you to such a degree that it cost you your marriage, how can you possibly trust your own self again?
It is a process which must be worked through for healing and recovery to occur. Many of us here have had to work through it. Those who did trust their own judgement prior to TWI, often saw that self trust slowly errode away over time via the doctrine and practice of TWI. You are not alone, many of us have been through it to some degree or another.
The main nurse in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". If you have seen the movie or read the book, you might think my post was funny. Otherwise it makes no sense...and it's hard to explain.
OK. In the context (remember your PFAL lesson) it seemed to be used in a derogatory sense. Or if you prefer, sarcastic.
quote:But Doc, she was fifteen years old, going on thirty-five, Doc, and, uh, she told me she was eighteen and she was, uh, very willing, you know what I mean...I practically had to take to sewin' my pants shut. But, uh between you and me, uh, she might have been fifteen, but when you get that little red beaver right up there in front of ya, I don't think it's crazy at all now and I don't think you do either...No man alive could resist that, and that's why I got into jail to begin with. And now they're telling me I'm crazy over here because I don't sit there like a goddamn vegetable. Don't make a bit of sense to me. If that's what's bein' crazy is, then I'm senseless, out of it, gone-down-the-road, wacko. But no more, no less, that's it.
The main nurse in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". If you have seen the movie or read the book, you might think my post was funny. Otherwise it makes no sense...and it's hard to explain.
OK. In the context (remember your PFAL lesson) it seemed to be used in a derogatory sense. Or if you prefer, sarcastic.
I choose not to remember my piffle lesson anymore often than I have to...and right here and right now is not a place I have to... ;)-->
If you will follow this link, you will see that the Bible does not endorse "beating" as we have defined beating of this day. Definitions change over time, and just as meek once met teachable and now has somehow changed to mean being weak with no courage, "to beat" in biblical times meant to spank. The rod was like a reed, causing no more damage than a hand used to spank on the rear end without much force, perhaps less, and while I don't really like spanking, God taught that it was for the reason of giving a child a little pain to spare them from the larger pain that their undisciplined actions may later bring them. Children these days seem to be so much worse than they used to be, as a whole. I see people coming into the store where I work who can't even tell their kids no. If their kids whine enough, the parents give in. This leads to spoiled and undisciplined children, and that can lead to a lot of bad things. This in no way means that I endorse the wooden spoon from TWI. I think that TWI took "beating a child" out of context from the Bible and used it as an excuse to hurt children.
I think the subject of spanking children will always be controversial. I was spanked, and I grew up with a healthy respect for my parents. However, my biological father's abuse included incest and beating, and I grew up without respect for him. There is a very large difference. Obviously, I did not get spanked very much.
Once again, God never said to beat children, not in the way that we now define beating. Please make sure that you know your history of the times before you make a claim about the Bible and how things were done in comparison to how things are done now.
Most people these days know better than to bruise or hurt their children...even if somebody tells them that "god" says to beat a child.
The point I wanted to make by bringing up that "god" says to beat a child was to exemplify how anybody can take anything from the bible and make it say anything they want it to say...what was called "private interpretation" (pi) when I was in twi...
And I wanted to make that point to make the point that twi leadership did a whole helluvalot of pi concerning children...
Something that was not readily obvious to those who had the same thinking processes before twi...
but, mj, if you're reading, somewhere you posted something to cool waters something about "calm down or take a chill pill or go eat something" not sure but i just wanted to tell you i thought that was really ugly....
and i also don't like some of steve's comments to you either
A man was convicted of beating his adopted son, leaving deep bruises on his legs and buttocks. The boy was 21 months old. The father claimed the boy had given him a "defiant" look when told to pick up his toys, and that the father had tried other means to correct the boy. He also said he had read a number of Christian books about disciplining children, and felt that he was doing the right thing in spanking him with a wooden spoon.
Because the boy was younger than 6, the assault is considered a felony. The father could get up to 5 years. He will lose his job with the Navy, and possibly be discharged.
Where was the mother? She is awaiting trial also. A day after the spankings, she shook the child violently, and the child died.
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Catcup
I, too am new to this particular thread. I spent several hours this morning looking through it. While I was never a part of any "initiation" ceremony (tongue in cheek or otherwise) that Evan describ
mj412
I ignored idiots , I ignored foolish people I ignored peole trashing their families and their life for twi . cant stop them they had a mission from God!
seriously I watched folks damage themselves for twi alot but I couldnt stop them I tried to talk to my friends but they felt it was what God" had them do. and it is their life.
do not twist that to say I ignored child molestations cool waters.
thank you for posting that. I said that in response to your reply about leaders ignoring and they did they didnt care about anyone but their own agenda at the time .
Many ill came to twi, and it did get to a point where the movement of the word had to come before helping those who had such troubles. it was the pfal class they sold not a protective agency against the wiles of the world. if people were so sick they could not protect or take care of their own families, because twi came first(which I saw alot ) who has the problem? who can stop that type of thinking? and naturally when these families fell apart and bad things happened they got hurt.
but try to stop some of those people that lived in proverty to attend another class or or left their kids alot to please the leaders. it was impossible if they thought they had a mission from God. so i did ignore them . it was better than joining in and now having to sing sad songs about how I was also used and abused by trusting the wring people or making huge gaping wrong choices in life.
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rascal
Steve you are correct....It is pointless to try to converse with one who refuses to hear.
I hate how oldies and mj have successfully (yet gain) derailed an imprtant thread...
It does no good to try to reason with them because it simply drags things further off track.
I am dissapointed that they have turned the attention away (once again) from the perpetrators and pointed the finger of blame at the innocents hurt...can`t even use the word *victim* here anymore because they have turned it into meaning something nasty and weak.
They have done it successfully with every important thread regarding abuse in twi.
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sadie
MJ, your haha attitude still did not answer my questions to you. Was your leadership door one of the doors which was knocked on by one of these troubled stupid ignorant followers asking for help?
You wreak of evil thoughts trying to tear down others when you are quickly complying to the prince of this world. He surely is laughing at you now and patting himself on the back at your actions and support of him.
Your actions are typical of TWI's evil and the outcome of one who does not seek counsel.
Can you or won't you answer my questions with some answer other than your glory of calling people stupid and ignorant?
Let us see that side of you...
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Steve!
mj, how can anyone twist what you say? you meander all over, you write in stream of consciousness as if you are stone drunk, you don't allow complete thoughts to form before you start typing. It's just screen diarrhea. Oh, "diarrhea" means runny poop.
You only think that you think. You don't have a head, your neck's just blowing bubbles.
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Lifted Up
Following this thread but not wanting to get into the fracas....so...
for my info...who is Nurse Ratchett???
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oldiesman
Go to Best Buy and get "One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest". Nurse Ratchett is there.
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CoolWaters
The main nurse in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest". If you have seen the movie or read the book, you might think my post was funny. Otherwise it makes no sense...and it's hard to explain.
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TheManOfa Thousand ScreenNames
space for rent
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oldiesman
ManofaThousand Screennames, that's R.P. McMurphy!
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Abigail
I saw people compromising every single area of their life in twi. "
". A parent is responsible for the safety of their children not twi that is the point everyone seems to disagree with. I saw people compromise their families and self in every area of life , I have said that from post one on this thread. the problem is when you ask people to be accountable for their own behaviours and choices of who to seek consel from and obey by choice then blame them when your life goes sour. "
"now if you have private conversation and listen to the advice of someone you went to that was different.. it was chapter and verse please remember? "
"some of you will never get to the point you realize why or how it happened other than saying tomy told me to jump off a bridge so I did and now im drowning because of him. and half the time tommy never even told you to jump off the bridge anyway you decided to do it and then blamed tommy for it !"
"Is it twi ordered parents to now beat your children or more like troubled stupid ignorant people got involved in twi with many personal problems and in sick relationships and poor backgrounds knocked on the leaders door and said this is my life in the gutter please fix it but I do not really know or want to know what the bible says much less apply it to my own personal life? "
"you can not see it is exactly how those who fell victim in twi got fooled . not me tho so sorry it make you FEEl angry."
I have yet to see a poster in this thread deny responsibility for their actions, exept you MJ, who claims to have not been fooled.
However,MJ, you let your own marriage end over TWI. (I know this because you have said so in posts here at Greasespot). It is not us who haven't dealt with our actions and choices, it is YOU. You point fingers at us, because you haven't faced it yourself. Either you haven't forgiven yourself yet, because that would require admitting to yourself what you have done; or you haven't forgiven yourself yet because the process of forgiving yourself would also require understanding why you did what you did. This in turn would require you to understand that these people you put your trust in used and deceived you; and if you let them use and decieve you to such a degree that it cost you your marriage, how can you possibly trust your own self again?
It is a process which must be worked through for healing and recovery to occur. Many of us here have had to work through it. Those who did trust their own judgement prior to TWI, often saw that self trust slowly errode away over time via the doctrine and practice of TWI. You are not alone, many of us have been through it to some degree or another.
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Abigail
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CoolWaters
OM...you know R P McMurphy's work????
I would have never thunk it so!!!!
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Lifted Up
OK. In the context (remember your PFAL lesson) it seemed to be used in a derogatory sense. Or if you prefer, sarcastic.
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oldiesman
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CoolWaters
I choose not to remember my piffle lesson anymore often than I have to...and right here and right now is not a place I have to...
;)-->
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CoolWaters
OM, you're faster than a speeding bullet and sharper than a two-edged sword when you wanna be, aren't you?
;)-->
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oldiesman
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waysurvivor
http://www.bible.com/answers/aspankin.html
If you will follow this link, you will see that the Bible does not endorse "beating" as we have defined beating of this day. Definitions change over time, and just as meek once met teachable and now has somehow changed to mean being weak with no courage, "to beat" in biblical times meant to spank. The rod was like a reed, causing no more damage than a hand used to spank on the rear end without much force, perhaps less, and while I don't really like spanking, God taught that it was for the reason of giving a child a little pain to spare them from the larger pain that their undisciplined actions may later bring them. Children these days seem to be so much worse than they used to be, as a whole. I see people coming into the store where I work who can't even tell their kids no. If their kids whine enough, the parents give in. This leads to spoiled and undisciplined children, and that can lead to a lot of bad things. This in no way means that I endorse the wooden spoon from TWI. I think that TWI took "beating a child" out of context from the Bible and used it as an excuse to hurt children.
I think the subject of spanking children will always be controversial. I was spanked, and I grew up with a healthy respect for my parents. However, my biological father's abuse included incest and beating, and I grew up without respect for him. There is a very large difference. Obviously, I did not get spanked very much.
Once again, God never said to beat children, not in the way that we now define beating. Please make sure that you know your history of the times before you make a claim about the Bible and how things were done in comparison to how things are done now.
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CoolWaters
waysurvivor,
That information is great.
Most people these days know better than to bruise or hurt their children...even if somebody tells them that "god" says to beat a child.
The point I wanted to make by bringing up that "god" says to beat a child was to exemplify how anybody can take anything from the bible and make it say anything they want it to say...what was called "private interpretation" (pi) when I was in twi...
And I wanted to make that point to make the point that twi leadership did a whole helluvalot of pi concerning children...
Something that was not readily obvious to those who had the same thinking processes before twi...
Or to those who were forced to "obey"...
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excathedra
i'm not sure i'm on the correct thread
but, mj, if you're reading, somewhere you posted something to cool waters something about "calm down or take a chill pill or go eat something" not sure but i just wanted to tell you i thought that was really ugly....
and i also don't like some of steve's comments to you either
just so you know i'm not in any club
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mj412
EX if you want to pt me I will answer your questions . this thread is about child abuse in twi.
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shazdancer
In the news here today:
A man was convicted of beating his adopted son, leaving deep bruises on his legs and buttocks. The boy was 21 months old. The father claimed the boy had given him a "defiant" look when told to pick up his toys, and that the father had tried other means to correct the boy. He also said he had read a number of Christian books about disciplining children, and felt that he was doing the right thing in spanking him with a wooden spoon.
Because the boy was younger than 6, the assault is considered a felony. The father could get up to 5 years. He will lose his job with the Navy, and possibly be discharged.
Where was the mother? She is awaiting trial also. A day after the spankings, she shook the child violently, and the child died.
Sadly,
Shaz
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CoolWaters
Deep sigh.
Deep, deep sigh.
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krys
Where were the experts who certified these folks to be parents? IMHO they have some explaining to do also! That was "negligence" on their part.
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