I don't think you're a bad person at all! On the contrary, I think you're a good person who thinks continual evil about certain particular people and groups.
Although I don't know as much as you folks that have been in TWI, it seems to me that praying for evil to fall upon someone is wrong.
And if either God or satan responds to prayers, then the author has a point I think.
A verse I have read in way stuff is John 10:10 which says the thief comes not for to steal, kill and destroy; I am come that they might have life....
Seems like those people praying for stuff the thief does is asking for his help to accomplish it....
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These are good points to get people looking at the twi doctrines, however.
******************
quote:Originally posted by oldiesman:
I don't think you're a bad person at all! On the contrary, I think you're a good person who thinks continual evil about certain particular people and groups.
I never prayed for evil to be directed at anyone. However, there have been times in my life, in TWI, that when evil was done to me, evil was somehow returned to the evildoer.
I have heard that when people left TWI, that part of the shunning ritual was to pray for their destruction. Some of the documents I have read stated this practice.
I also listened to a woman named Donna M. saying to a group in public that a former way minister's daughter or grandaughter died in a plane wreck because he left.
This is a classic practice I have heard in several interviews that is used by cults to instill a fear of leaving.
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ex: I have heard that phrase greasespot, but I always thought it meant the general presense of grease in a diner or cafe that seems to be everywhere.
Is there another inside joke I don't know about?
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This brings up an interesting question and it's serious, although it sounds not. Serious.
When someone prays about a sports event, for the team of their choice to win, and the other to lose, does that fall under the same category as IMF is describing?
Like the World Series. For someone to lose, it probably means their team is going to make some errors. Some pitcher's going to have his balls knocked out of the park. The seamed ones I mean. so somebody's got to lose.
Really - then the pitcher gets dropped, loses his contract, heads for the minors 3 years later, turns into an abusive putz, wife leaves him, kids hate him, he becomes a drunk, and ends up in a flop house and one day gets hit by an Ice Cream Truck driven by a guy wearing a t-shirt bearing the name of the team he lost too in the Series and all of this happens before he can recover, write a book and have a talk show. Which adds serious insult to injury.
If we pray that both teams play their 'best' but the bestest play be done by the team I support, is that right? Losing coach rants in locker room interview after the game, hits photographer, gets sued and ends up driving an Ice Cream truck, which he enjoys but the owner of the company has investments in the team he lost to and has all his vendors wear their T-Shirts.
-->
In line, in line, it's all in a line. My ducks are all in a row.
They do not change, they do not move. They have nowhere to go.
Socks: I think it all depends on which time zone you were in when you prayed, and whether you crossed the international time zone while praying and your prayer was sent back in time or not. Also, are these prayers now subject to the laws of another country.....
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quote:Our name is a lighthearted hijacking of a favorite phrase used over the years by Craig Martindale in his capacity as president and chief minister of The Way International. Referring to those who might choose to leave The Way, he frequently declared, "You'll be a greasespot by midnight!" - predicting that the devil would run over them in much the same way a car might flatten a possum on the highway, leaving what Martindale called a "greasespot" on the road.
ps. i don't think you can really pray for sports events
I have prayed for God to overthrow the words of people who were IMO doing evil to me. Once it was a boss who was religious. He ended up getting fired.
How about 2 Tim. 4:14 coupled with 2 Thes. 1:6?
2 Tim - Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works
2 Thes - Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you
Granted, different books/different contexts, but not mutually exclusive. That BS about praying for their destruction is just TWI full of hot air. Didn't happen did it? If that plane crash wasn't coincidental then neither was Don Wierwille dying of cancer.
Socks, remember that skit on SNL where OJ Simpson was the host and Walter Payton was closing in on his then record so he sticks a pin in a voodoo doll with #34 on it and Payton fumbles. Hmm.
IMF, "greasespot by midnight" was a phantom of bad things happening to you if you left TWI says LCM. For a fuller explanation click on the where the name came from on the GSC home page.
Oh, I see Ex beat me to it.
[This message was edited by johniam on February 24, 2004 at 17:31.]
myseestorEx, I thought that might be what OM was referring to, but since he was stating it I just wanted to make sure I got it from his perspective...
OM, this threat of death... the greasespot thing that Craig is famous for... do you think it just started with him or TWI-2? where do you think he got the idea? I remember VeePee saying many times "if you leave this ministry, you're walking out from under God's umbrella of protection..."
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
I was told that if I left the WOW vet field, the devil, adversary would kill me...1981...VEEPEE taught at ROA 1980, the years I was commissioned as a WOW, theme, born again to live, born again to serve..."that there was NO armour on a christian's back" ie..don't turn your back on
God...via turning Your back on TWI....only semanatics between all that and being a greasespot.
Paul contradicts Jesus's words in turning the other cheek, pray for those who despitefully use you, heck he contradicted his own words in Romans in being not overcome with evil, not recopmensing evil for evil when he prayed or wished out loud in his epistles that Alexander be rewarded for his actions...
I have thought that turning a holy God into a hit man or break your legs guys as wrong....who knows what god has in store for some...and what his will is for people.
To pray for people to be harmed is wronged in my opinion and sticking verses on it, adding god's name or the closing of Jesus' name doesn't make it any right or better, it is still wishing evil and in essence, black magic.
And to pray for team sports can be considered working magic....and in different time zones then it's the 'prayer twilight zone' ;-)
The lightning-bug is brilliant, but he hasn't any mind; He stumbles through existence with his headlight on behind.-E.F. Ware, The Lightning-Bugsize font color>
While I don't follow Dale Sides he has a must listen to tape
called Christian Witchcraft, just contact Dale and he will send it to you, it really openened my eyes.
and BTW 777 have you ever been in TWI?
I was never told to pray for something evil to happen to someone leaving or kicked out of TWI, but we were told that because they left or got the boot, that something bad would happen to them. I was in the way for 23 years and never prayed for evil to happen to anyone not even the so called evil doer.
And I still won't pray for anything bad to happen to ANYONE! EVER!!
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CoolWaters
I dunno...twi couldn't come close to living up to what is called for in witchcraft.
The last verse of the Wiccan Creed:
So be it in love that harms none,
For this is the only commandment,
By magick of old be it done!
?????????????
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oldiesman
Coolwaters are you a witch ?
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CoolWaters
Now why would it matter to you? Don't you believe that if I don't believe your way, I'm bad no matter what I believe?
?????????????
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oldiesman
I don't think you're a bad person at all! On the contrary, I think you're a good person who thinks continual evil about certain particular people and groups.
You're a witch, aren't you?
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IMF777
Although I don't know as much as you folks that have been in TWI, it seems to me that praying for evil to fall upon someone is wrong.
And if either God or satan responds to prayers, then the author has a point I think.
A verse I have read in way stuff is John 10:10 which says the thief comes not for to steal, kill and destroy; I am come that they might have life....
Seems like those people praying for stuff the thief does is asking for his help to accomplish it....
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CoolWaters
IMF,
It's wrong...in nearly every religion it's wrong.
These are good points to get people looking at the twi doctrines, however.
******************
Wrong...on both counts.
?????????????
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oldiesman
IMF777,
I never prayed for evil to be directed at anyone. However, there have been times in my life, in TWI, that when evil was done to me, evil was somehow returned to the evildoer.
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Tom Strange
dangit CW!
you mean you don't have one of those pointy black hats?
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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IMF777
I have heard that when people left TWI, that part of the shunning ritual was to pray for their destruction. Some of the documents I have read stated this practice.
I also listened to a woman named Donna M. saying to a group in public that a former way minister's daughter or grandaughter died in a plane wreck because he left.
This is a classic practice I have heard in several interviews that is used by cults to instill a fear of leaving.
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excathedra
what does "greasespot by midnight" mean to y'all
?
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oldiesman
That's part of what is commonly known as TWI-2, which is another reason why it was different than TWI-1.
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IMF777
ex: I have heard that phrase greasespot, but I always thought it meant the general presense of grease in a diner or cafe that seems to be everywhere.
Is there another inside joke I don't know about?
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socks
This brings up an interesting question and it's serious, although it sounds not. Serious.
When someone prays about a sports event, for the team of their choice to win, and the other to lose, does that fall under the same category as IMF is describing?
Like the World Series. For someone to lose, it probably means their team is going to make some errors. Some pitcher's going to have his balls knocked out of the park. The seamed ones I mean. so somebody's got to lose.
Really - then the pitcher gets dropped, loses his contract, heads for the minors 3 years later, turns into an abusive putz, wife leaves him, kids hate him, he becomes a drunk, and ends up in a flop house and one day gets hit by an Ice Cream Truck driven by a guy wearing a t-shirt bearing the name of the team he lost too in the Series and all of this happens before he can recover, write a book and have a talk show. Which adds serious insult to injury.
If we pray that both teams play their 'best' but the bestest play be done by the team I support, is that right? Losing coach rants in locker room interview after the game, hits photographer, gets sued and ends up driving an Ice Cream truck, which he enjoys but the owner of the company has investments in the team he lost to and has all his vendors wear their T-Shirts.
In line, in line, it's all in a line. My ducks are all in a row.
They do not change, they do not move. They have nowhere to go.
James Taylor
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IMF777
Socks: I think it all depends on which time zone you were in when you prayed, and whether you crossed the international time zone while praying and your prayer was sent back in time or not. Also, are these prayers now subject to the laws of another country.....
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Tom Strange
IMF, we were told "you'll be a greasespot by midnight if you walk away from this ministry"... (that's where the name of this place came from)
(but we did have our free will)
OM: what are the dates that seperate TWI-1 and 2? (really, I don't know)
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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excathedra
IMF, that was funny about time zones and prayers
from the cover page of greasespot cafe:
ps. i don't think you can really pray for sports events
?
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excathedra
i think generally speaking twi-1 is wierwille and twi-2 is martindale
and a rose by any other name would smell as sweet ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
yeah rosie, you can be included in that
?
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johniam
I have prayed for God to overthrow the words of people who were IMO doing evil to me. Once it was a boss who was religious. He ended up getting fired.
How about 2 Tim. 4:14 coupled with 2 Thes. 1:6?
2 Tim - Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works
2 Thes - Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you
Granted, different books/different contexts, but not mutually exclusive. That BS about praying for their destruction is just TWI full of hot air. Didn't happen did it? If that plane crash wasn't coincidental then neither was Don Wierwille dying of cancer.
Socks, remember that skit on SNL where OJ Simpson was the host and Walter Payton was closing in on his then record so he sticks a pin in a voodoo doll with #34 on it and Payton fumbles. Hmm.
IMF, "greasespot by midnight" was a phantom of bad things happening to you if you left TWI says LCM. For a fuller explanation click on the where the name came from on the GSC home page.
Oh, I see Ex beat me to it.
[This message was edited by johniam on February 24, 2004 at 17:31.]
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Tom Strange
myseestorEx, I thought that might be what OM was referring to, but since he was stating it I just wanted to make sure I got it from his perspective...
OM, this threat of death... the greasespot thing that Craig is famous for... do you think it just started with him or TWI-2? where do you think he got the idea? I remember VeePee saying many times "if you leave this ministry, you're walking out from under God's umbrella of protection..."
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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def59
I just love how religious people are still seen as evil.
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Mandii
I was told that if I left the WOW vet field, the devil, adversary would kill me...1981...VEEPEE taught at ROA 1980, the years I was commissioned as a WOW, theme, born again to live, born again to serve..."that there was NO armour on a christian's back" ie..don't turn your back on
God...via turning Your back on TWI....only semanatics between all that and being a greasespot.
Paul contradicts Jesus's words in turning the other cheek, pray for those who despitefully use you, heck he contradicted his own words in Romans in being not overcome with evil, not recopmensing evil for evil when he prayed or wished out loud in his epistles that Alexander be rewarded for his actions...
I have thought that turning a holy God into a hit man or break your legs guys as wrong....who knows what god has in store for some...and what his will is for people.
To pray for people to be harmed is wronged in my opinion and sticking verses on it, adding god's name or the closing of Jesus' name doesn't make it any right or better, it is still wishing evil and in essence, black magic.
And to pray for team sports can be considered working magic....and in different time zones then it's the 'prayer twilight zone' ;-)
The lightning-bug is brilliant, but he hasn't any mind; He stumbles through existence with his headlight on behind.-E.F. Ware, The Lightning-Bugsize font color>
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wyteduv58
While I don't follow Dale Sides he has a must listen to tape
called Christian Witchcraft, just contact Dale and he will send it to you, it really openened my eyes.
and BTW 777 have you ever been in TWI?
I was never told to pray for something evil to happen to someone leaving or kicked out of TWI, but we were told that because they left or got the boot, that something bad would happen to them. I was in the way for 23 years and never prayed for evil to happen to anyone not even the so called evil doer.
And I still won't pray for anything bad to happen to ANYONE! EVER!!
Dovey....proud owner of two low riders...Dovey's Doxies...... too dumb to post pics http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?s=9716057...a&ul=4846073735
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johniam
Mandii: quote:
who knows what god has in store for some...and what his will is for people.
Apparently you do.
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GarthP2000
Talk about your Quote of the Day, Socks! 'Cause that one certainly made mine. ... Plus I had to clean off my monitor screen.
:D-->
Carry on.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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