False Accusations against TWI

[Cherished Child]

I don't believe they ever taught that The Holy Spirit (God) and Mary literally had sex! I DO remember being taught that that would have been impossible because God is Spirit, and Mary was flesh, and spirit cannot have sex with flesh. You know, "spirit is spirit and flesh is flesh" (anyone remember hearing that?) Rather, they said, God "created" seed, pure, undefiled and free of sin-nature seed (sperm), and caused it to fertilize Mary's egg, thereby resulting in the conception of J.C.

So it always struck me as, well....JUST PLAIN WRONG when LCM insisted that Eve (who was flesh) could have literally had sex with The Devil (who was spirit).

[Raf]

Actually, I'm trying to remember the exact wording on this, but in Luke 1, where it says:

quote:

---

"And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God."

---

If I'm not mistaken, Wierwille taught (in JC Our Promised Seed) that either the words "come upon" or the word "overshadow" was used of how a certain male animal got on top of the female during intercourse. It's quite a leap, in my opinion, to suggest that Wierwille was saying God had sex with Mary, but I could see how someone looking, aching to criticize Wierwille could come to that conclusion.

[johniam]

Matthew Slick, huh? Wonder if he's related to Grace.

[Tom Strange]

Yeah Raffy... and we know what an accomplished scholar he was in Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew...

I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.

[Raf]

Well, considering that he was more of an editor than the author of JCOPS, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the meaning of that particular word.

However, the point is that he never said "God had sex with Mary." That's a false accusation.

OMG, I've defended Wierwille twice in one week. I'm going to lose my "I'm a Wierwille Hater" club membership.

[WordWolf]

I've read this accusation before, even when I was in.

Even saw someone quote the page from vpw's book, then

deliberately miscontrue it to claim he was saying the

Holy Spirit did to Mary exactly what a bull does to a cow.

Needless to say, criticisms like THAT only made twi look

RIGHT in claiming other Christians didn't know stuff, but

could only make up stuff. I thought "Gee, if that's the

strongest argument you can make, I'll stay where I am. I'm

actually LEARNING something here."

[diazbro]

Lets talk about the false accusations that TWI made against people, churches, and organizations

in general....

for every 1 false accusation made against TWI

that I've ever seen there are at least 3 that TWI had going on against somebody somewhere. They were a regular slander machine.

[excathedra]

oh so much more than a slander machine

more like a shredder

how sad

?

Edited February 28, 2004 by Guest

[WordWolf]

Oh, let's see....this is a much longer list......

vpw was fond of levelling every sort of complaint at regular churches.

To hear him, they were loaded with tradition-pushing bunglers.

(Some people, at twi, and out, still speak of "churchianity".)

He used terms like "theological cemetary, uh, seminary" *wink wink*

to imply no real Christian can be found in one except by accident.

Pretty much the entire contents of Ralph Woodrow's book

"Babylon Mystery Religion" (a rewrite of Hislop's "The 2 Babylons")

were accepted and propagated. Of course, Woodrow has repudiated his

previous book and issued a full retraction ("the Babylon Connection").

Some people, naturally, still believe the previous book was true, even

though Woodrow's explained WHY it was wrong as well.

Let's see-the cross is an evil symbol for a number of reasons,

any person who leaves twi was either spiritually dark or evil,

and bad things will happen to them....

[Oakspear]

Come on, we have plenty of threads going all the time about bad stuff that TWI perpetrated, we don't need to turn this thread into another.

Deliberately misrepresenting what Wierwille said, or being just plain stupid in understanding his statements, makes us "outies" look pretty foolish to the "innies". It was crap like "the Way makes their people eat out of garbage cans" that gave TWI critics such low credibility in my eyes.

If we're going to slam Wierwille, let's be right shall we? A thread like this demonstrates to any wavering "innies" that we have thought through our objections to TWI and it's leaders.

It doesn't matter if we turn to dust...guess I'll see you dancin' in the ruins tonight

Oakspear

[Goey]

Oak Posted

quote:

---

Come on, we have plenty of threads going all the time about bad stuff that TWI perpetrated, we don't need to turn this thread into another.

---

I agree, This thread is not about the bad stuff that TWI did. It is about false accusations againt TWI. Let's stick to that.

Here is the opportunity for some of us to show our honesty and obectivity to those who seem to think that some of us are so "bitter" against TWI and it's chief perpetrators that we can't tell the truth.

There are other threads already started where we have ample opportunity to tell the "other side of the story" about TWI.

--------------------------------

Goey

"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"

Edited February 29, 2004 by Guest

[Flay Minion]

Here's one from another thread:

The Way prays for death or misfortune for those who leave. Maybe individuals did this ~ though in my two decades I never saw it ~ but the teaching is against this kind of devilishness.

Of course, leaders *did* make sure they pointed out terrible things that happened to people who had left ~ while hiding terrible things that happened to innies ~ but that's a different thing altogether.

Not to change the subject but yes ~ it is frustrating to see people exaggerating or manufacturing awful things about TWI in these forums. It makes the truthful statements look suspect ~ and I can personally testify to that from an innie point of view.

TWI is ~ I think ~ one of the most evil "christian" organizations that can be encountered ~ as such, I believe it is VERY important to only say things that can be proved or at least verified by honest eyewitnesses.

I cannot emphasize this too much ~ I and others stayed for extra years because much of what we saw against TWI was so obviously false that the truth was easily ignored amidst all the noise.

I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out.

[Doze]

Fly Minion,

I'll take your perspective (like all the others) with a grain of salt. Unlike TWI, here on GS we have that right. You walk in your shoes...I will walk in mine...sometimes we find ourselves walking in the same direction, sometimes not. As far as fabrication goes...I wasn't there, so who am I to say it didn't happen.

[Goey]

quote:

---

I'll take your perspective (like all the others) with a grain of salt. Unlike TWI, here on GS we have that right. You walk in your shoes...I will walk in mine...sometimes we find ourselves walking in the same direction, sometimes not....

---

I happen to think that Flay Minion's prospective is a pretty good one and lends to more credibility.

quote:

---

As far as fabrication goes...I wasn't there, so who am I to say it didn't happen.

---

What kind of thinking is this?

This is exactly the opposite thinking of folks like Oldies, who seem to think that if they weren't there it didn't happen. Both prospectives are 'head in the sand' and go too far to one side, spinning the actual facts and truth.

Goey

"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"

[Tom Strange]

Well... one time I heard some accuse "The Way International" of being a cult! Can you believe it?

I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.

[Mandii]

Aside from those leaders who wanted to take credit for John Lennon's death by turning him over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh...FM is partially correct.

Believers demises weren't prayed for necessarily but rather prophezied and as Exie pointed out on the other thread...why do we think this place is called Greasespot Cafe rather than Trippedout Cafe or Possessed Person Ville?

For truly ridiculous false accusations that did more harm than good was saying we didn't celebrate Easter, bypassing the fact the TWI and us believed in the resurrection or that we celebrated VP's birthday....

The lightning-bug is brilliant, but he hasn't any mind; He stumbles through existence with his headlight on behind.-E.F. Ware, The Lightning-Bugsize font color>

[This message was edited by Mandii on February 29, 2004 at 13:09.]

Edited February 29, 2004 by Guest

[Doze]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Goey:

As far as fabrication goes...I wasn't there, so who am I to say it didn't happen.

---

What kind of thinking is this?

This is exactly the opposite thinking of folks like Oldies, who seem to think that if they weren't there it didn't happen. Both prospectives are 'head in the sand' and go too far to one side, spinning the actual facts and truth.

Fly Minion was talking about manufactured negative things being said about TWI...I am not spinning facts or truth...all I'm saying is without verifiable credible witnesses, I don't know if it's true or untrue. I have read things that people say that I seriously question to be true. I think it would be more honest to specifically call those people out, rather than cast a cloud of doubt over every negative thing stated about the way. If I wasn't there I can't say for sure if it did or did not happen...is that better?

[Goey]

Yes,

Much better. Thanks for the clarificaton ..

Goey

"Most of my fondest memories in TWI never really happened"

[oldiesman]

Another false accusation against TWI is saying we disparaged "The Cross of Christ".

We didn't. We believed all the accuracy and truth there was to be told about "The Cross Christ Bore." We didn't wear gold and silver crosses around our necks because it was viewed (I think now mistakenly) as some sort of celebration for the method of Jesus's execution. (Some Satan worshippers like the upside down cross). But, there's no question that we honored, respected and believed in Jesus's sacrifice.

[Lightside]

I heard the accusation that followers of the way ministry had a false tongue because we stated that we operated speaking in tongues via our free will.

Many, many pentacostals believed and still believe that you must be possessed by the Holy Ghost, taken over, forced to speak the wonderful works of God.

[WordWolf]

Here's an oldie but a goodie.

"TWI uses its own Bible-by Lamsa."

People said the day-to-day Bible for standard use by wayfers was

Lamsa's, NOT the KJV used by EVERYBODY, EVERYWHERE, at EVERY

meeting.

Of course, there were so many "translations according to usage"

that at times we might as well have had NO standard Bible, but

that's neither here nor there.

[Mark Sanguinetti]

Yes, let us be fair and impartial without accusing TWI leadership of anything evil that they have not actually done. After all everyone knows that their leaders have never accused anyone falsely of anything.

And I also have some beach front property in Kansas for sale. Any buyers?

[This message was edited by Mark Sanguinetti on March 14, 2004 at 0:06.]

Edited March 14, 2004 by Guest

[lindyhopper]

well I didn't eat out of the trash, but...

when we were out WOW, I was 7, my WOW sister brought me home some ice skates that she found in the trash on the side of the road.

I mentioned it to my outie dad on the phone one day and my mom shushed me saying, don't tell him she got them from the garbage!

:D-->

I can't say I ever skated in them, but what a thoughtful gift. LOL :P-->

OK then...Who's your mommy?

[outandabout]

Another believer brought home a shirt for me that he found in the middle of the road.

[outofdafog]

CC -

"So it always struck me as, well....JUST PLAIN WRONG when LCM insisted that Eve (who was flesh) could have literally had sex with The Devil (who was spirit)."

Never thought of it that way Cherished, makes alot of sense now though.

outofdafog

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.