WOW! It's been two years since I wrote this post and I am revisiting....and this is what I have learned in these two years...
In order to make true friends I have to be vulnerable. Let them see my weaknesses and don't feel bad that I have them. Nobody is perfect, so I had to stop making people believe I was. The scurring around the house at the last minute making my house look perfect before company came over was a huge indicative that I was trying to portray somebody I was not...a perfect person with a perfect life.
When I became vulnerable to a strong sister, had to be wise to whom I was being vulnerable to, I benefited from not only friendship but also the "iron sharpeneth iron" I was talking about.
I did also learn that friendships don't come easy. It's hard work and there is giving involved and allowing to receive as well.
I attended a ladie's bible study at the last church we went to and seemed that every single lady there was looking for the same thing...to be able to connect and build strong spiritual friendships. Out of all of them, I connected with one or two.
What I didn't do was try to force the friendship. I let my guard down and stopped being so judgmental as some of you adviced.
Anyway...I thought that this was a cool thread to dig up and it was great to see the growth in my own life after 2 years. Thanks again for all your advice...not sure how many of you are still around that gave advice but for those of you who are still hanging in there....my two thumbs up to you!
Good to see you around here again! Nice post. Glad you are forging forward. The not judging people is very freeing. It's a hard thing to learn to be a little vulnerable, to learn humilty, to let adult people choose to live their own lives the way they see fit. It's very freeing though.
I recently took a very long class, four weeks, six days a week eight hours a day with a two hour commute.
It was very intese, the leaders and teacher and professors varied and we had to alot of self work.
one was of course to write your weakness in different roles of your life.
ok ok
What surprised me is this group of mostly women and sucessful women said
Independence was their largest down fall .
they all had families three of the four had grand children , and had been awarded and very successful
and yet independence was their weakness.
to not be able to say I cant do this. I need help I am not able was a problem.
no problem with leadership: management such as i I will not, it was an issue of i can not. always able.
and twi forced the same type of mind set that weakness was forbid as you said.
your not alone.
I had a horrid day when i came home the phone was ringing it was a gal i had met in that class.. a loser really but man do I love her.. so she said you know "how are you ? " I said" I really suck" she laughed and said "yeah me to. "
she made my day my week ,my life by just being my friend.
because i need her to call and i need her to understand I really am not in good shape and I have needs.
and she cant really help me at all , but I felt better after we spoke.
and it is ok that is why I have friends. .. Because when i need to fall short of whatever the heck it is life demands and I aint good enough friends are there to say it is alright because i need you when the same happens to me.
I think that is why people love pets so very much because they just look at you and say hey I still love ya no matter what.
that is what friends do .
I wouldnt be able to live without friends and I get new one all the time because i meet people and tell them I really am not so great at this or that etc. but i have a nice new zucchni blossom wanna see it?
I have weakness, it may be I am independant as I am truly able , but only because I need people alot more than I do not. Even though i can do it myself just fine.
and I admit my issues to myself and to them because that is who I am .
I think humanity is messed up not humans.
we all have alot more in common than not. and i leave the door open for it to be a "loser" or a huge winner or a freak because (surprised! i have been )they sometimes turn to be the very very best friends of all .
I am not telling alot of people im out for the count now the few that do know have sent money.. call me everyday wanting details and I want to be "private", like twi taught.. secrets do not work in love trust me it truly is unrelenting if it is real.
i have to learn to accept love everyday. no it isnt as easy as it sounds from a place from higher powers and devil spirits evading every soul and judgement and pride and all the crap twi gave our mind.
I just have to remember I need them because independence can truly be our weakness.
I have been thinking about how precious friends and family are.
twi ridiculed the "social" aspect of church -- but really having friends you share with so deeply (there's nothing deeper than your relationship with your Lord) -- is a treasure of life.
All that "you have no friends when it comes to the Word" was to blind us to the precious, tender, and deep relationships we should be able to forge with fellow church-goers.
I would say that a better friendship quote would be something like, "friendships go deeper when the Word is shared."
I have a friend at work who is a life-long member of a church -- I don't know the denomination, but we were out getting coffee for the office and she met two of her church member friends (husband and wife), and it was so delightful to see -- they just jumped into laughter and the deep bond they shared.
I am so sorry we were robbed of that.
I will be happy to see those who imprisoned us receive their just rewards.
I remember just before we left TWI the twig cordo would occasionally bark out that this is NOT a social hour. Then Craig would say, "I think when some people hear love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, they think it means love of PEOPLE in the renewed ...etc." So if you like being around people you might not be in fellowship with God, huh? Unless of course the PEOPLE are the leadership. That logic is so air tight it's suffocating.
What? So I have to go to the world, the unbelievers if I want to have a "social hour"??? I don't think one needs a bible or the spirit of God or a leadership name tag to figure out that humans are social beings and need to socialize with different people even than just those in the fellowship.
About the iron sharpens iron thing: iron doesn't have nerve endings or sensitive areas inside. It's OK for iron to be regularly sharpened. People are different. I think the application of iron sharpening iron is broader than just among believers. Let's say you have a job you like and every day when you arrive you're at the workplace, with the same people, doing the same team work and just being in that atmosphere helps get you in your work rhythm. I believe THAT is an example of iron sharpening iron. You don't need to get chewed out every day in order to do your best work.
That verse about iron sharpens iron says that a person is improved by the countenance of his friend. Not the reproof of his friend. Psalm 133:1 used to be the theme verse for way homes. Behold how good and how pleasant it is for bretheren to dwell together in unity. Nothing in there about constant reproof.
This is a good thread to consider what "friends" are. And how to make them. TWI did make us suspicious of other very decent-hearted people, Christians and non-Christians.
Jesus was a "friend" of all sorts of people. Accusations against him from the legalists were that he was a friend of winebibbers, etc, and other "disreputable" members of society. I started looking at his life, who he hung out with. He couldn't have been "in the face" of people in pubs, passersby, in the market place, on his travels, by jumping down their throats, could he? So he must have held forth the word in a quiet and acceptable fashion - perhaps just by living it and giving people space to feel safe in. When they were ready for a bit more, he gave it to them. He learned to be socially friendly with them. Probably he just asked them how their day had been, and was the donkey well behaved today?
Some followed him quite quickly. Others turned away. But of the ones who didn't follow him immediately, who knows but that he planted the seed and they pondered it and followed him later? Maybe some of those were the people who got blessed at Pentecost?
He made himself available and didn't criticise when people asked for help. No, he rolled up his sleeves and got stuck in. When Peter's wife was sick, did he criticise anyone's "believing"? No, he went to help.
What I *don't* see is him deliberately running people off, on a regular basis. Some are offended and leave, but that isn't the general pattern. He warned people about the leaven, the words of the Pharisees, but he didn't tell them not to go to the synagogue or temple (he didn't stop going himself, either).
He gathered about him a special band of buddies (we call the "12 disciples" or whatever, but there were really a lot more; also their families). He shared deeper heart with them. Sometimes they needed reproof and correction, but look how he did it, lovingly and encouragingly, not putting them down. On occasions his own followers became a bit over-zealous or legalistic, but again he gently reproved them, so they wanted to stick with him. They did it from love, not from fear that he would leave them or excommunicate them.
And we love our friends who *gently* point out the error of our ways and value them even more highly.
The only people who he really "got in the face of" was the hypocrites - Pharisees, legalists, church hierarchy - who said one thing and did another. He had no friends when it came to the Word (that they taught) and yet we also learn that one or two of them also became his followers.
Unfortunately in TWI we rather lost sight of our "big brother" and instead of modelling our lives on his (from the heart, kindness, loving point of view), we were urged to model it on higher-ups in TWI. As Paul said - be ye followers of me. And some at TWI took this to mean that we were to be followers of them (as the new apostles) and not of Christ. There were some really tremendous people there whose lives were admirable and who set wonderful examples. And then ... there were others exemplified "what it is not."
Those "What Would Jesus Do" bracelets don't really cut it for me, but as a reminder to think beyond the example set by TWI, well, what would Jesus do? How did he make friends?
What An effective way to isolate people form each other--and you being in from a child were taught this lesson well. Isolation is the first key component to an abusive relationship. Isolation from other people, their ideas, their feelings"
"iron sharpeneth iron" A methodology whereby by your very actions you keep others at Bay (Who wants to be criticized) and thus insure the isolation continues. Thus making you ripe to accept whatever Abuse comes your way.
If there ever was a doubt that TWI etal was an abusive organization -this scenario should quell that notion.
I feel for you I really do- You've gotten lots of good advice here- the only thing I can add is--Think how you would like to be treated in a situation, say if you had made an error. Would you want someone to point out your mistake adding to your embarrassment? Treating others how you would like to be treated is the big first step. It will take conscientious determination to unlearn the behaviors ingrained since childhood. In every situation you must stop and think be fore yo speak and act what Would make the other person feel better and not be hurtful. The mere fact you have the concerns you have says that you will be able to accomplish this-- best of luck to you
John 15: 14 " You are my friends IF you do whatsoever I command you "- Jesus. Which tends to make me think that the reason Jesus 'hung' with publicans and sinners was to win them. If they refused to believe I'm sure they weren't counted as his friends (as such). A friend of publicans and sinners who decided to believe.
And Mo, come on, LDS can be just as nasty with former church members whom they refer to as 'inactive believers'.
John 15: 14 " You are my friends IF you do whatsoever I command you "- Jesus. Which tends to make me think that the reason Jesus 'hung' with publicans and sinners was to win them.If they refused to believe I'm sure they weren't counted as his friends (as such). A friend of publicans and sinners who decided to believe.
While in TWI I had someone who I had hoped was a dear friend (we were in twi for 20 years together) tell me she was either "counseling" or "being counseled." In other words no time for just being a friend.
I think that Jesus was (and is) a friend of publicans and sinners (such as myself). Period. He is a friend. He loves at all times, etc. etc. I don't think he is conniving while feigning friendship so he can "win the lost." For me He is my friend, period. He would, and did die for me.
And Mo, come on, LDS can be just as nasty with former church members whom they refer to as 'inactive believers'.
LDS and other cults. To ensure their continuance, the point of a cult, any cult, is to define distinctions between members and nonmembers. When there is a public tragedy, LDS makes a point of helping their own period. That's just what they do.
LDS has emergency stores that are available only to LDS (grains and other things non-perishable, etc.). I tried to purchase some things from their store here in Reno. The only alternative they gave me to be able to do so was to join their church. "They didn't have enough for non-church members."
My work brings me into contact with LDS leadership in Wendover NV (close to UT) because much of our Casino management is LDS. Some very nice people. They are friendly and very nice, especially to their own.
I am very much like you in that i have a hard time with persons , and maintaining friends, but i had to remind my self of oter scriptures like bearing others burdens, if one in the body hurts we all do, and how many times to forgive a real brother that truely makes a mistake. I thank Yehovah god all the time that i can be good with people , and still not comprimise his word, He has helped a million times.
Old fashioned wisdom was that in order to make friends you have to be a friend. Empathy, a word often maligned in TWI, is important. Because of my years in TWI and since leaving, because of my husban's job which requires relocating every 5 years or so, I have had thousands of opportunities to make new friends. An open, loving attitude and smile go a long way toward opening doors for friendships. Unfortunately, often as wives and mothers, we women often get too busy to make the friends we so desperately need because we feel the need to put everyone else in the household first. Finding the balance is the key.
Another very important thing to remember is to separate the person from their actions. You can love someone - love the person - with the love of God even though you may not approve of what they are doing that is wrong. The Word teaches forebearance. We are capable of it because the Word tells us to do it, and the Word does not ask us to do anything impossible. So we CAN focus on loving others for who they are and sometimes just pray (silently) for God to show them where they are wrong. He is always more loving in the way He reproves.
Yesterday I was listening to the radio and one news item was a study which concluded that close friendships are not near as common as they were 2 decades ago. So it's possibly not just TWI.
When I think back on friends I've had, it seems that as a child, most friendships were formed by mutually figuring out how to best deal with what the adults were making us do. Going to the same school or church may have been required to meet the friend, but nature took its course after that. But as an adult, pretty much all my friendships were precipitated by a common interest: music, drugs, TWI.
This explains to me why despite having many friends as a child, I now have 1 friend from that era with whom I still am in contact. That friend was a drug friend and is a Christian (non TWI) and we like a lot of the same music. I don't believe there is any such thing as a "friendship spirit" that hovers over the earth and magically makes people become friends; friends are made by people for their own mutual convenience.
Come as you are as you were as I want you to be
as a friend as an old enemy, take your time hurry up
choice is yours don't be late as a friend as an old memory
Come doused in mud soaked in bleach as I want you to be
Well, don't know about JC but his Dad sure has a wacky really fun sense of humour. Things from many years ago still make me giggle. Why shouldn't JC have a great sense of humour? Life can be pretty funny at times - doesn't have to be so TWI serious!
Someone told me years ago, "You catch more with honey than with vinegar." JC attracted more friends with a smile and being kind than by being sharp with them.
Visit or call them every month just to see how they are or if they need any help.
Invite them to lunch, dinner, shopping whatever--after all inactive doesn't mean "no longer friends"
Help them out with meals, when a family member is sick
Help them out with rides when the car is down
babysit their kids when they have to work and can't find a sitter
You get the idea
Funny, I can't ever remember that TWI ever suggesting that this was how we were to treat even "standing" members. Thanks Allan for reminding me why I stick with my "nasty" LDS lifestyle
funniest of all is Jesus Christ to me. This is not a primary doctrine from the Bible I am proposing, but Him to me.
He is our all in all -- whatever we need. That's just how He has shown himself to be, to me.
If a merry heart does good like medicine, surely Jesus Christ, the healer of hearts, would use that recipe of life.
The classic, for me, is "Have you caught anything?" or "Children, Have you any meat?" These were not questions because He did not know. He was watching them with those loving eyes of His. (And also, incidentally, He did not rest until they had caught something, until they had "meat."
Also I believe that Jesus Christ truly had the last laugh on the cross (Psalm 2:4).
The humor of Jesus Christ never hurt of made fun of, as in ridiculed, but is a cleansing humor.
He often says memorable stuff to me while I am "coming to myself" in that room of rooms -- where we are reminded that the issues of us are not always sweet smelling and crystal pure.
For me the most important relationship I have is with the Lord, and that relationship provides the strength for all others.
My life for many would seem as a mass of failure, but because I know He lives and that He takes time out of His busy schedule to talk with me, that is enough for me.
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MCarroll
Please e-mail me if you need to chit chat or just blow off steam. I understand what you are going through.
gladtobeout@hotmail.com
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MCarroll
WOW! It's been two years since I wrote this post and I am revisiting....and this is what I have learned in these two years...
In order to make true friends I have to be vulnerable. Let them see my weaknesses and don't feel bad that I have them. Nobody is perfect, so I had to stop making people believe I was. The scurring around the house at the last minute making my house look perfect before company came over was a huge indicative that I was trying to portray somebody I was not...a perfect person with a perfect life.
When I became vulnerable to a strong sister, had to be wise to whom I was being vulnerable to, I benefited from not only friendship but also the "iron sharpeneth iron" I was talking about.
I did also learn that friendships don't come easy. It's hard work and there is giving involved and allowing to receive as well.
I attended a ladie's bible study at the last church we went to and seemed that every single lady there was looking for the same thing...to be able to connect and build strong spiritual friendships. Out of all of them, I connected with one or two.
What I didn't do was try to force the friendship. I let my guard down and stopped being so judgmental as some of you adviced.
Anyway...I thought that this was a cool thread to dig up and it was great to see the growth in my own life after 2 years. Thanks again for all your advice...not sure how many of you are still around that gave advice but for those of you who are still hanging in there....my two thumbs up to you!
MC
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jardinero
Hey M!
Good to see you around here again! Nice post. Glad you are forging forward. The not judging people is very freeing. It's a hard thing to learn to be a little vulnerable, to learn humilty, to let adult people choose to live their own lives the way they see fit. It's very freeing though.
Love to you and your family!
J.
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pond
I recently took a very long class, four weeks, six days a week eight hours a day with a two hour commute.
It was very intese, the leaders and teacher and professors varied and we had to alot of self work.
one was of course to write your weakness in different roles of your life.
ok ok
What surprised me is this group of mostly women and sucessful women said
Independence was their largest down fall .
they all had families three of the four had grand children , and had been awarded and very successful
and yet independence was their weakness.
to not be able to say I cant do this. I need help I am not able was a problem.
no problem with leadership: management such as i I will not, it was an issue of i can not. always able.
and twi forced the same type of mind set that weakness was forbid as you said.
your not alone.
I had a horrid day when i came home the phone was ringing it was a gal i had met in that class.. a loser really but man do I love her.. so she said you know "how are you ? " I said" I really suck" she laughed and said "yeah me to. "
she made my day my week ,my life by just being my friend.
because i need her to call and i need her to understand I really am not in good shape and I have needs.
and she cant really help me at all , but I felt better after we spoke.
and it is ok that is why I have friends. .. Because when i need to fall short of whatever the heck it is life demands and I aint good enough friends are there to say it is alright because i need you when the same happens to me.
I think that is why people love pets so very much because they just look at you and say hey I still love ya no matter what.
that is what friends do .
I wouldnt be able to live without friends and I get new one all the time because i meet people and tell them I really am not so great at this or that etc. but i have a nice new zucchni blossom wanna see it?
I have weakness, it may be I am independant as I am truly able , but only because I need people alot more than I do not. Even though i can do it myself just fine.
and I admit my issues to myself and to them because that is who I am .
I think humanity is messed up not humans.
we all have alot more in common than not. and i leave the door open for it to be a "loser" or a huge winner or a freak because (surprised! i have been )they sometimes turn to be the very very best friends of all .
I am not telling alot of people im out for the count now the few that do know have sent money.. call me everyday wanting details and I want to be "private", like twi taught.. secrets do not work in love trust me it truly is unrelenting if it is real.
i have to learn to accept love everyday. no it isnt as easy as it sounds from a place from higher powers and devil spirits evading every soul and judgement and pride and all the crap twi gave our mind.
I just have to remember I need them because independence can truly be our weakness.
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dmiller
:) :) :)
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Kit Sober
I have been thinking about how precious friends and family are.
twi ridiculed the "social" aspect of church -- but really having friends you share with so deeply (there's nothing deeper than your relationship with your Lord) -- is a treasure of life.
All that "you have no friends when it comes to the Word" was to blind us to the precious, tender, and deep relationships we should be able to forge with fellow church-goers.
I would say that a better friendship quote would be something like, "friendships go deeper when the Word is shared."
I have a friend at work who is a life-long member of a church -- I don't know the denomination, but we were out getting coffee for the office and she met two of her church member friends (husband and wife), and it was so delightful to see -- they just jumped into laughter and the deep bond they shared.
I am so sorry we were robbed of that.
I will be happy to see those who imprisoned us receive their just rewards.
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johniam
I remember just before we left TWI the twig cordo would occasionally bark out that this is NOT a social hour. Then Craig would say, "I think when some people hear love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation, they think it means love of PEOPLE in the renewed ...etc." So if you like being around people you might not be in fellowship with God, huh? Unless of course the PEOPLE are the leadership. That logic is so air tight it's suffocating.
What? So I have to go to the world, the unbelievers if I want to have a "social hour"??? I don't think one needs a bible or the spirit of God or a leadership name tag to figure out that humans are social beings and need to socialize with different people even than just those in the fellowship.
About the iron sharpens iron thing: iron doesn't have nerve endings or sensitive areas inside. It's OK for iron to be regularly sharpened. People are different. I think the application of iron sharpening iron is broader than just among believers. Let's say you have a job you like and every day when you arrive you're at the workplace, with the same people, doing the same team work and just being in that atmosphere helps get you in your work rhythm. I believe THAT is an example of iron sharpening iron. You don't need to get chewed out every day in order to do your best work.
That verse about iron sharpens iron says that a person is improved by the countenance of his friend. Not the reproof of his friend. Psalm 133:1 used to be the theme verse for way homes. Behold how good and how pleasant it is for bretheren to dwell together in unity. Nothing in there about constant reproof.
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oldiesman
During my stint in twi, I don't recall twi ever robbing me of having someone as a friend who I chose to have.
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Twinky
This is a good thread to consider what "friends" are. And how to make them. TWI did make us suspicious of other very decent-hearted people, Christians and non-Christians.
Jesus was a "friend" of all sorts of people. Accusations against him from the legalists were that he was a friend of winebibbers, etc, and other "disreputable" members of society. I started looking at his life, who he hung out with. He couldn't have been "in the face" of people in pubs, passersby, in the market place, on his travels, by jumping down their throats, could he? So he must have held forth the word in a quiet and acceptable fashion - perhaps just by living it and giving people space to feel safe in. When they were ready for a bit more, he gave it to them. He learned to be socially friendly with them. Probably he just asked them how their day had been, and was the donkey well behaved today?
Some followed him quite quickly. Others turned away. But of the ones who didn't follow him immediately, who knows but that he planted the seed and they pondered it and followed him later? Maybe some of those were the people who got blessed at Pentecost?
He made himself available and didn't criticise when people asked for help. No, he rolled up his sleeves and got stuck in. When Peter's wife was sick, did he criticise anyone's "believing"? No, he went to help.
What I *don't* see is him deliberately running people off, on a regular basis. Some are offended and leave, but that isn't the general pattern. He warned people about the leaven, the words of the Pharisees, but he didn't tell them not to go to the synagogue or temple (he didn't stop going himself, either).
He gathered about him a special band of buddies (we call the "12 disciples" or whatever, but there were really a lot more; also their families). He shared deeper heart with them. Sometimes they needed reproof and correction, but look how he did it, lovingly and encouragingly, not putting them down. On occasions his own followers became a bit over-zealous or legalistic, but again he gently reproved them, so they wanted to stick with him. They did it from love, not from fear that he would leave them or excommunicate them.
And we love our friends who *gently* point out the error of our ways and value them even more highly.
The only people who he really "got in the face of" was the hypocrites - Pharisees, legalists, church hierarchy - who said one thing and did another. He had no friends when it came to the Word (that they taught) and yet we also learn that one or two of them also became his followers.
Unfortunately in TWI we rather lost sight of our "big brother" and instead of modelling our lives on his (from the heart, kindness, loving point of view), we were urged to model it on higher-ups in TWI. As Paul said - be ye followers of me. And some at TWI took this to mean that we were to be followers of them (as the new apostles) and not of Christ. There were some really tremendous people there whose lives were admirable and who set wonderful examples. And then ... there were others exemplified "what it is not."
Those "What Would Jesus Do" bracelets don't really cut it for me, but as a reminder to think beyond the example set by TWI, well, what would Jesus do? How did he make friends?
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templelady
"you have no friends when it comes to the word"
What An effective way to isolate people form each other--and you being in from a child were taught this lesson well. Isolation is the first key component to an abusive relationship. Isolation from other people, their ideas, their feelings"
"iron sharpeneth iron" A methodology whereby by your very actions you keep others at Bay (Who wants to be criticized) and thus insure the isolation continues. Thus making you ripe to accept whatever Abuse comes your way.
If there ever was a doubt that TWI etal was an abusive organization -this scenario should quell that notion.
I feel for you I really do- You've gotten lots of good advice here- the only thing I can add is--Think how you would like to be treated in a situation, say if you had made an error. Would you want someone to point out your mistake adding to your embarrassment? Treating others how you would like to be treated is the big first step. It will take conscientious determination to unlearn the behaviors ingrained since childhood. In every situation you must stop and think be fore yo speak and act what Would make the other person feel better and not be hurtful. The mere fact you have the concerns you have says that you will be able to accomplish this-- best of luck to you
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allan w.
John 15: 14 " You are my friends IF you do whatsoever I command you "- Jesus. Which tends to make me think that the reason Jesus 'hung' with publicans and sinners was to win them. If they refused to believe I'm sure they weren't counted as his friends (as such). A friend of publicans and sinners who decided to believe.
And Mo, come on, LDS can be just as nasty with former church members whom they refer to as 'inactive believers'.
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Kit Sober
I think that Jesus was (and is) a friend of publicans and sinners (such as myself). Period. He is a friend. He loves at all times, etc. etc. I don't think he is conniving while feigning friendship so he can "win the lost." For me He is my friend, period. He would, and did die for me.
LDS and other cults. To ensure their continuance, the point of a cult, any cult, is to define distinctions between members and nonmembers. When there is a public tragedy, LDS makes a point of helping their own period. That's just what they do.LDS has emergency stores that are available only to LDS (grains and other things non-perishable, etc.). I tried to purchase some things from their store here in Reno. The only alternative they gave me to be able to do so was to join their church. "They didn't have enough for non-church members."
My work brings me into contact with LDS leadership in Wendover NV (close to UT) because much of our Casino management is LDS. Some very nice people. They are friendly and very nice, especially to their own.
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Twinky
Seems to me JC just made friends with people because he cared about them. Cared about the detail of their lives.
Was concerned about what a mess the devil had made of some of their lives. Put the blame where it belonged - not on the people suffering.
After all, if you're gonna die for someone you may as well find out what you're dying for, huh?
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Oakspear
The existance of abuses in other organizations in no way makes TWI's abuses "okay". In fact bringing them up often is a tactic of distraction.
As Song Remains the Same used to say:
"Just a thot"
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CONNERRON
Hello:
I am very much like you in that i have a hard time with persons , and maintaining friends, but i had to remind my self of oter scriptures like bearing others burdens, if one in the body hurts we all do, and how many times to forgive a real brother that truely makes a mistake. I thank Yehovah god all the time that i can be good with people , and still not comprimise his word, He has helped a million times.
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dmiller
Welcome to GreaseSpot, Connerron.:)
I guess that little point wasn't considered by the BOT (or whatever they're called now),
or else perhaps they thought themselves *above it all*, eh?
Meebe *mark and avoid* was their way of showing *luv*,
instead of hurting so many folks the way they did.
Too bad they didn't think of that verse,
instead of wreaking havoc with *the body*. <_<
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goodseed
Old fashioned wisdom was that in order to make friends you have to be a friend. Empathy, a word often maligned in TWI, is important. Because of my years in TWI and since leaving, because of my husban's job which requires relocating every 5 years or so, I have had thousands of opportunities to make new friends. An open, loving attitude and smile go a long way toward opening doors for friendships. Unfortunately, often as wives and mothers, we women often get too busy to make the friends we so desperately need because we feel the need to put everyone else in the household first. Finding the balance is the key.
Another very important thing to remember is to separate the person from their actions. You can love someone - love the person - with the love of God even though you may not approve of what they are doing that is wrong. The Word teaches forebearance. We are capable of it because the Word tells us to do it, and the Word does not ask us to do anything impossible. So we CAN focus on loving others for who they are and sometimes just pray (silently) for God to show them where they are wrong. He is always more loving in the way He reproves.
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johniam
Yesterday I was listening to the radio and one news item was a study which concluded that close friendships are not near as common as they were 2 decades ago. So it's possibly not just TWI.
When I think back on friends I've had, it seems that as a child, most friendships were formed by mutually figuring out how to best deal with what the adults were making us do. Going to the same school or church may have been required to meet the friend, but nature took its course after that. But as an adult, pretty much all my friendships were precipitated by a common interest: music, drugs, TWI.
This explains to me why despite having many friends as a child, I now have 1 friend from that era with whom I still am in contact. That friend was a drug friend and is a Christian (non TWI) and we like a lot of the same music. I don't believe there is any such thing as a "friendship spirit" that hovers over the earth and magically makes people become friends; friends are made by people for their own mutual convenience.
Come as you are as you were as I want you to be
as a friend as an old enemy, take your time hurry up
choice is yours don't be late as a friend as an old memory
Come doused in mud soaked in bleach as I want you to be
as a trend as a friend as an old memory.
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Kit Sober
A friend is someone you can laugh with.
(IMHO Jesus is the funniest of all.)
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Oakspear
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Twinky
Well, don't know about JC but his Dad sure has a wacky really fun sense of humour. Things from many years ago still make me giggle. Why shouldn't JC have a great sense of humour? Life can be pretty funny at times - doesn't have to be so TWI serious!
Someone told me years ago, "You catch more with honey than with vinegar." JC attracted more friends with a smile and being kind than by being sharp with them.
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templelady
Things us "nasty" LDS do to inactive members
Visit or call them every month just to see how they are or if they need any help.
Invite them to lunch, dinner, shopping whatever--after all inactive doesn't mean "no longer friends"
Help them out with meals, when a family member is sick
Help them out with rides when the car is down
babysit their kids when they have to work and can't find a sitter
You get the idea
Funny, I can't ever remember that TWI ever suggesting that this was how we were to treat even "standing" members. Thanks Allan for reminding me why I stick with my "nasty" LDS lifestyle
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Oakspear
The comment that I am asking about characterized him as "funniest of all".
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Kit Sober
funniest of all is Jesus Christ to me. This is not a primary doctrine from the Bible I am proposing, but Him to me.
He is our all in all -- whatever we need. That's just how He has shown himself to be, to me.
If a merry heart does good like medicine, surely Jesus Christ, the healer of hearts, would use that recipe of life.
The classic, for me, is "Have you caught anything?" or "Children, Have you any meat?" These were not questions because He did not know. He was watching them with those loving eyes of His. (And also, incidentally, He did not rest until they had caught something, until they had "meat."
Also I believe that Jesus Christ truly had the last laugh on the cross (Psalm 2:4).
The humor of Jesus Christ never hurt of made fun of, as in ridiculed, but is a cleansing humor.
He often says memorable stuff to me while I am "coming to myself" in that room of rooms -- where we are reminded that the issues of us are not always sweet smelling and crystal pure.
For me the most important relationship I have is with the Lord, and that relationship provides the strength for all others.
My life for many would seem as a mass of failure, but because I know He lives and that He takes time out of His busy schedule to talk with me, that is enough for me.
Still in hope,
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