I can actually picture the poor guy triumphantly taking on the forces of darkness and ignorance. Saw it all the time. "Oh, you didn't know that [insert odd TWI teaching here] then let me inform you."
Personally, I'd like to see Pat taken out and thrashed right now. Enough is enough. :D-->
Did you really put their first name up, Pat? That's not kosher ever.
What a quote though, and worth reading:
"Things have changed and our ministry is stronger than ever"...that's like the captain of the Titanic saying "Waddya mean the boat sank??? It just changed direction!"
quote: Did you really put their first name up, Pat? That's not kosher ever
Why isn't it kosher? You just did it yourself.
The big brouhaha is over a first name up for so short a time that it's removal was before the edit time period. People need to get a grip.
Hope:
Although I agree in principle with letting the innie know more, however, my pointing them to court documents are hard evidence. Especially when they read Rosie's court testimony.
If she said anything contrary to what the innies are being told (which she has), it will be Rosie's own words not a so called cop-outs grumblings.
Further, if the person indeed wants more information, I will direct them to GS which has people's own testimonies about their experiences versus the documents that I provide. Both functions are needed to wake someone up.
quote: Pat, why do you persist in acting like such a jerk?
An opinion not shared by all. Why do you and your friends have to find fault in stuff like this to begin with? Most of this thread is about you shouldn't have done this, or shoulda have done it this way. My style is mine and if some have another opinion of how to do it, you are entitled to that opinion.
Why don't we discuss the mindset of the person who wrote the e-mail and how TWI has them convinced that things are looking better? That was the reason for this thread.
I think that Pat corrected the "name" issue, a mistake is a mistake.
We are very quick to turn from debate and discussion to personal attacks. It is unfortunate, that we can't step away from the keyboard, when irked and return with a cup of objectivity.
Pat and I disagree regularly. I even disagreed with a point on this thread. I chose to email him privately about it, but that's me.
I don't want to bring out the rule book, but will if it goes into the area of personal attacks again.
Sooooo....let me see, Paw...if everyone here did that, there'd be some pretty short threads, but very loaded up email inbaskets. Are you working for Hotmail Sales now?
I'm just kidding. I was mostly kidding above in my post. I would hate for you or anyone to get out the Rule Book. That's gotta be just....BAD!!!!
Brother Tom, it's time for that love, the most amazing! love of all, the love all the kids are talking about, the love that gives 100 per cent more protein and 100 per cent less cavities...
Sea Monkey love!!!
Tell your neighbor you love 'em while singing "Hey Ya!" by OutKast. Now, tell them you're name. Here's mine. (Yeah, he stole it, but he made a very compelling case and I didn't want to embarrass him)
Well, as usual, I came up on the tail end of the discussion, and am, naturally, a little, um, behind?
OK, all smart aleckness aside, (I'm doing my best to renew my mind and hide the inner smart aleck in me that rears its ugly head from time to time) I'm just wondering how all of us so highly opinionated peeps ever survived in a cult??? :)-->
Maybe said innie can let his inner self go as well, and handle whatever consequences his email may bring.
With all due respect to all opinions here, I don't see what is so wrong with what Pat says. He deleted the name once that was brought up didn't he?
Even if Pat is coming from an area of bitterness toward twi, isn't that his right? Who are we to judge him? I'll admit that I'm a little bitter still myself. When I hear that from an innie, I wish I had the courage to say they're full of it to their face.
We may not all agree but as long as he is civil, he deserves to have his opinions too. Plus, I think that he is doing a lot to expose twi. Maybe some don't like how it's done,but exposure is exposure.
I am too nice sometimes. But it seems unusual to post someone's email on the Internet for scrutiny. I suppose it's not the worst thing that could happen. I would rather try to help someone one on one without criticism. I have even encouraged a few to stay in TWI.
Funny thing, when they eventually leave, as almost everyone does, they feel they can approach me. A few have told me that it was some kind words at a time when they were torn that helped them make the difficult decision to leave or stay.
And SOCKS.........
That is my website....not yours.... how dare you steal my name. :D--> :D--> You are the funniest man on the Internet. We miss you and the family. Live long and prosper.
quote:He deleted the name once that was brought up didn't he?
Thank You for the non cult mindset.
The name was only up for about 10 minutes and it was a common name which could be almost anyone in the world as no last name was mentioned or any other identifier. Geesh, how much of beating a dead horse was this thread about?
Some of the posters just love to get on my case about any perceived transgression whether real or imagined.
The subject of the innie's e-mail had nothing personal in it at all to boot. He criticized my having info still up about LCM and then did the TWI is stronger than ever promo. Sure sounds like a great confidence was breached, NOT......
John:
I had an innie a few years ago spout the "At least TWI has the truth" line at me.I shot back liar!. TWI does not have the truth. My boldness shocked the person enough that they later came back to me ready to really dialogue. And those e-mails and conversations were confidential as so many I have are.
Niceness does not always work, but some bold truth sometimes is what's needed to shake them awake. And no, this approach is not my only approach. Sometimes I am quite friendly although I am not the pastor type hehehe
The fact that there are different opinions and different "approaches" to dealing with all of this, indicates to me that there is a healthy amount of diversity at the GS.
Perhaps there are innies who respond well to all the "sugar coated, sensitive, well thought out, easy to be intreated, gentle, kind and sure love ya man" gestures that are made towards them...but perhaps there are others who are more responsive to a "direct approach", where the disdain of twi is communicated with a harder edge. Maybe the combination of the different styles, working in tandem, can reach someone...
Personally, I really don't care if I "break a few eggs" and offend some religious zealot. Twi is an insideous little cult that needs to be dragged out into the light of day and exposed.
quote:The fact that there are different opinions and different "approaches" to dealing with all of this, indicates to me that there is a healthy amount of diversity at the GS.
Absolutely and well put. However, there are some in the offshoots and others who still have the Wierwillian mindset / indoctrination that there is only one right way of doing things.....
You said, in three different posts on this thread...
quote:Why do you and your friends have to find fault in stuff like this to begin with?....Thank You for the non cult mindset....there are some in the offshoots and others who still have the Wierwillian mindset / indoctrination that there is only one right way of doing things
Sorry, Pat, just expressing an opinion that it was impolite to quote someone's email on another website without their permission. Now I feel I am being labeled for having disagreed with you. I don't know anyone who posted on this thread personally. Didn't talk to them about this thread. I am not in an offshoot. I don't believe there is only "one right way of doing things."
I learned your name, btw, because you have used it yourself on the 'Net, making it proper to address you by it.
Sheesh, Pat, if you're gonna be an attorney, better get used to having your opinions and methods attacked all the time! ;)-->
I actually liked your response to the email. Although some might have done it differently (and just as well in their own way), you were concise and informative. Perhaps you piqued his curiosity to look at some of your other pages....
I think many people stay in spite of the problems they see because they think they have no where else to go that has anything close to "the rightly divided Word." Some stay for innie friends and relatives that they know would shun them if they left. Some stay to be catalysts for change, and I would bet that many help contribute to making TWI a better place than it would be without them. I just feel that the organization as a whole was founded on false premises, and continues to be run by people who are only interested in themselves, not the lofty goals that define the organization.
My leaders (also my invisible friends) tell me that I agree with Shaz.
Seriously, I think the content of your reply was fine. One could quibble over “7 or so” lawsuits since four of them are trademark oppositions with TTAB and are combined into one action, but that’s not important. You didn’t go out of your way to be nice, but I don’t think the e-mail to which you were replying warranted that. I do think that it warranted being treated either as a private e-mail or as a “letter to the editor,” neither of which should be posted to a public forum not associated with your website, unless the author gives permission. That’s not a matter of law, but a matter of courtesy. Even so, it’s not that big a deal and nobody made a federal case of it. It does seem rather odd, though, to assert in every one of your posts, “All rights reserved. Duplication prohibited,” but not to honor similar rights or extend similar courtesies to others regarding their words. Some might even consider that to be hypocritical.
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JustThinking
Oldies,
You scare me. ;-)
I can actually picture the poor guy triumphantly taking on the forces of darkness and ignorance. Saw it all the time. "Oh, you didn't know that [insert odd TWI teaching here] then let me inform you."
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socks
Personally, I'd like to see Pat taken out and thrashed right now. Enough is enough.
:D-->
Did you really put their first name up, Pat? That's not kosher ever.
What a quote though, and worth reading:
"Things have changed and our ministry is stronger than ever"...that's like the captain of the Titanic saying "Waddya mean the boat sank??? It just changed direction!"
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Linda Z
Grizzy said, "A person’s life and heart are always more important than the 'cause.'*
Amen, my furry friend, amen.
And a bouquet of amens to what Jason P said.
And another amen to IGotOut's example of a possible alternative response.
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pjroberge
The big brouhaha is over a first name up for so short a time that it's removal was before the edit time period. People need to get a grip.
Hope:
Although I agree in principle with letting the innie know more, however, my pointing them to court documents are hard evidence. Especially when they read Rosie's court testimony.
If she said anything contrary to what the innies are being told (which she has), it will be Rosie's own words not a so called cop-outs grumblings.
Further, if the person indeed wants more information, I will direct them to GS which has people's own testimonies about their experiences versus the documents that I provide. Both functions are needed to wake someone up.
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Linda Z
Buffy the Dragonslayer said, "Why isn't it kosher? You just did it yourself."
Okay, that's it. At risk of banishment for a GS time-out, let me just say this:
Pat, why do you persist in acting like such a jerk?
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pjroberge
Why don't we discuss the mindset of the person who wrote the e-mail and how TWI has them convinced that things are looking better? That was the reason for this thread.
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pawtucket
I think that Pat corrected the "name" issue, a mistake is a mistake.
We are very quick to turn from debate and discussion to personal attacks. It is unfortunate, that we can't step away from the keyboard, when irked and return with a cup of objectivity.
Pat and I disagree regularly. I even disagreed with a point on this thread. I chose to email him privately about it, but that's me.
I don't want to bring out the rule book, but will if it goes into the area of personal attacks again.
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socks
Sooooo....let me see, Paw...if everyone here did that, there'd be some pretty short threads, but very loaded up email inbaskets. Are you working for Hotmail Sales now?
I'm just kidding. I was mostly kidding above in my post. I would hate for you or anyone to get out the Rule Book. That's gotta be just....BAD!!!!
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Grizzy
SPANKINGS ARE IN ORDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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pawtucket
Problem with that Grizz, some want to be spanked!!
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Grizzy
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Tom Strange
man! ... why does it still 'feel' like I'm missing something here?
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dmiller
'Cuz you didn't say anything worthy of a spanking!!
:D-->
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socks
Brother Tom, it's time for that love, the most amazing! love of all, the love all the kids are talking about, the love that gives 100 per cent more protein and 100 per cent less cavities...
Sea Monkey love!!!
Tell your neighbor you love 'em while singing "Hey Ya!" by OutKast. Now, tell them you're name. Here's mine. (Yeah, he stole it, but he made a very compelling case and I didn't want to embarrass him)
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dmiller
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ex10
Well, as usual, I came up on the tail end of the discussion, and am, naturally, a little, um, behind?
OK, all smart aleckness aside, (I'm doing my best to renew my mind and hide the inner smart aleck in me that rears its ugly head from time to time) I'm just wondering how all of us so highly opinionated peeps ever survived in a cult???
:)-->
Maybe said innie can let his inner self go as well, and handle whatever consequences his email may bring.
I'm assuming he is an adult.
:)-->
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LuckyGirl
With all due respect to all opinions here, I don't see what is so wrong with what Pat says. He deleted the name once that was brought up didn't he?
Even if Pat is coming from an area of bitterness toward twi, isn't that his right? Who are we to judge him? I'll admit that I'm a little bitter still myself. When I hear that from an innie, I wish I had the courage to say they're full of it to their face.
We may not all agree but as long as he is civil, he deserves to have his opinions too. Plus, I think that he is doing a lot to expose twi. Maybe some don't like how it's done,but exposure is exposure.
Just MY opinion.
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igotout
I am too nice sometimes. But it seems unusual to post someone's email on the Internet for scrutiny. I suppose it's not the worst thing that could happen. I would rather try to help someone one on one without criticism. I have even encouraged a few to stay in TWI.
Funny thing, when they eventually leave, as almost everyone does, they feel they can approach me. A few have told me that it was some kind words at a time when they were torn that helped them make the difficult decision to leave or stay.
And SOCKS.........
That is my website....not yours.... how dare you steal my name.
:D--> 
:D--> You are the funniest man on the Internet. We miss you and the family. Live long and prosper.
JR Yes... the real JR
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pjroberge
The name was only up for about 10 minutes and it was a common name which could be almost anyone in the world as no last name was mentioned or any other identifier. Geesh, how much of beating a dead horse was this thread about?
Some of the posters just love to get on my case about any perceived transgression whether real or imagined.
The subject of the innie's e-mail had nothing personal in it at all to boot. He criticized my having info still up about LCM and then did the TWI is stronger than ever promo. Sure sounds like a great confidence was breached, NOT......
John:
I had an innie a few years ago spout the "At least TWI has the truth" line at me.I shot back liar!. TWI does not have the truth. My boldness shocked the person enough that they later came back to me ready to really dialogue. And those e-mails and conversations were confidential as so many I have are.
Niceness does not always work, but some bold truth sometimes is what's needed to shake them awake. And no, this approach is not my only approach. Sometimes I am quite friendly although I am not the pastor type hehehe
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GrouchoMarxJr
The fact that there are different opinions and different "approaches" to dealing with all of this, indicates to me that there is a healthy amount of diversity at the GS.
Perhaps there are innies who respond well to all the "sugar coated, sensitive, well thought out, easy to be intreated, gentle, kind and sure love ya man" gestures that are made towards them...but perhaps there are others who are more responsive to a "direct approach", where the disdain of twi is communicated with a harder edge. Maybe the combination of the different styles, working in tandem, can reach someone...
Personally, I really don't care if I "break a few eggs" and offend some religious zealot. Twi is an insideous little cult that needs to be dragged out into the light of day and exposed.
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pjroberge
Absolutely and well put. However, there are some in the offshoots and others who still have the Wierwillian mindset / indoctrination that there is only one right way of doing things.....
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shazdancer
Pat,
You said, in three different posts on this thread...
Sorry, Pat, just expressing an opinion that it was impolite to quote someone's email on another website without their permission. Now I feel I am being labeled for having disagreed with you. I don't know anyone who posted on this thread personally. Didn't talk to them about this thread. I am not in an offshoot. I don't believe there is only "one right way of doing things."I learned your name, btw, because you have used it yourself on the 'Net, making it proper to address you by it.
Sheesh, Pat, if you're gonna be an attorney, better get used to having your opinions and methods attacked all the time!
;)-->
I actually liked your response to the email. Although some might have done it differently (and just as well in their own way), you were concise and informative. Perhaps you piqued his curiosity to look at some of your other pages....
I think many people stay in spite of the problems they see because they think they have no where else to go that has anything close to "the rightly divided Word." Some stay for innie friends and relatives that they know would shun them if they left. Some stay to be catalysts for change, and I would bet that many help contribute to making TWI a better place than it would be without them. I just feel that the organization as a whole was founded on false premises, and continues to be run by people who are only interested in themselves, not the lofty goals that define the organization.
Regards,
Shaz
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LG
My leaders (also my invisible friends) tell me that I agree with Shaz.
Seriously, I think the content of your reply was fine. One could quibble over “7 or so” lawsuits since four of them are trademark oppositions with TTAB and are combined into one action, but that’s not important. You didn’t go out of your way to be nice, but I don’t think the e-mail to which you were replying warranted that. I do think that it warranted being treated either as a private e-mail or as a “letter to the editor,” neither of which should be posted to a public forum not associated with your website, unless the author gives permission. That’s not a matter of law, but a matter of courtesy. Even so, it’s not that big a deal and nobody made a federal case of it. It does seem rather odd, though, to assert in every one of your posts, “All rights reserved. Duplication prohibited,” but not to honor similar rights or extend similar courtesies to others regarding their words. Some might even consider that to be hypocritical.
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pjroberge
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