One way I can think of right off the bat if they're different would be in the abs category, and if there is no compulsion.
For example, when going to twig in the '70's, I never experienced a directive/mandate by the tc or leadership to tithe or abs; one may give cash if one desired as well. If one desired not to give, one was still allowed to attend twig, and keep attending, without giving any money. Then I hear in the '90's, all that changed, and they required you to at least tithe, and wanted you to give a check, so they could keep track.
Is all that changed now? If I wanted, could I go to twig as often as I like and not be bothered if I don't feel like sending money to hq?
surely you jest OM. one is subtle and the other blatent. Twi of the 70's was small and subtle. TWI of the 80's to 90's was bigger and therefore more demanding. Twi of the o1's and now are small and try to go back to the 70's their cash flow!!! NOTHING has changed!!!
a pile of shinola under a different name smells the same
If they got rid of the dictators, then why is the Queen of the Dictators still the Prez? Why are Greg & Lori Bolc#alk still in Gunnison running the WC? Why is Jeff & Diane K@r@$ still region coordinators of New England?
All I can see they've done is move LCM out of the way because he cost them the most money and promoted everyone else. RFR got herself a little lapdog of a vice prez and promoted her favorites where she wanted them.
Whoop-dee-doo....
You can put some lovely, lacy Victoria's Secret panties on to cover up an @$$hole, but there's still @$$hole there under that sweet covering...
All I can say is that the information about TWI's abuses has been available for decades.
While I'm thankful that so many realized in recent years the problems in TWI; I wonder why they were so oblivious years ago.
Certainly they were warned in the late eighties when such a mass exodus took place. Many of the folks who I have talked to who are such staunch crtics of TWI were also the same people who were marking and avoiding those of us who left before they did. All of sudden they are out and the language is all about what was done to them, but rarely about what they did to others.
I know for me this was a hard pill to swallow and the greatest change in me didn't happen when I left TWI but rather when I finally allowed myself to start to be transformed by Christ.
It's easy to be critical of everyone else but to turn that magnifying glass on ourselves is a different proposition.
quote:Many of the folks who I have talked to who are such staunch crtics of TWI were also the same people who were marking and avoiding those of us who left before they did. All of sudden they are out and the language is all about what was done to them, but rarely about what they did to others.
You noticed that too?
Sure there are quite a few folks who were M & A'd unwillingly and might even still still be in TWI today if they had their druthers back then.
While they were in TWI, it seems that all was OK until it happend to them. Man that must have been a shocker and hoepfully a wake up call to many of these folks - M&A'ing your brohers and sisters and getting all up in thier faces one day - and then getting it done to you the next? And then and only then becoming a critic of TWI?
Hey, it takes what it takes - I am glad they are out.
But, in all fairness many of these folks have seen the errors of their ways and have made an honest effort to right their wrongs. Others, I am sure, have not and possibly only see themslves as the victims - human nature I suppose - hopefully someday they will get past the denial, see the big picture and make thier ammends.
TWI turned a lot of good folks into insensitive asswipes. After TWI, it is up to us (our duty) to right our past wrongs as best we can.
quote:TWI turned a lot of good folks into asswipes.
Yep...and many of those asswipes are out doing the same thing they were doing when in...maybe in a "kinder, gentler" way, but it's the same thing.
Can anybody say "offshoot"?
Regardless of twi's current policies, the tree was born of foul seed...and the apples that haven't fallen far from that tree have proven that over and over again.
and then there are those of us who had no clue the depths of evil that were being practiced behind the scenes in twi....and remained oblivious ...staunch supporters even years after leaving....
There are those of us who supported twi through thick and thin never dreaming that we were the cover for heinous evil.
It`s kind of natural to be peeved when you find out the depths of that betrayal...
Did you support TWI's policy of Mark and Avoid? Did you ever M&A someone? - Participate in bearing false witness againt a brother or sister in Christ? Did you ever bust up a family in the name of the Ministry? - or cover up an abuse situation? I bet not.
These are the kind of things I think Dizzydog was refering to.
Being angry for TWI lies and deceptions is one thing - Someone being angry at TWI for kicking them out while not admitting their part in doing the same to others (if they did such things)is another.
I think I agree with both of you, not to sound like a certain politician who is running for president...
I think about the things I was ignorant of in TWI and do feel a sense of betrayal. But then I think about my own behavior toward others and realize that I didn't get out of the situation without my own level of culpability.
TWI was not a good place for a young man with raging hormones and plenty of willing partners. I don't say this to boast, I am rather embarassed about my behavior and I was perfectly justified by the doctrine of the day.
I think about who I hurt and regret my actions to this day. I suppose I could say I didn't know any better but that wouldn't be entirely honest. Now I have a daughter and the thought of her being involved with a group like TWI, or meeting someone like me there makes me just about climb out of my own skin.
I have other situations and other examples but that's not really the point. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This point was regularly glossed over in TWI.
"TWI turned a lot of good folks into insensitive asswipes. After TWI, it is up to us (our duty) to right our past wrongs as best we can."
Well said! I never M&A anyone, was not actually involved in that process (as I wasn't a tc) and wasn't M&A myself. HOWEVER, even though I didn't pull the trigger (figuratively speaking), if I didn't do enough to stop things, I feel I bear some blame too. Stories of regular folks ignoring atrocities in times of war, genocide, etc. are very common. The amazing thing to me about the goodness in people is that usually some rise up and do amazing things to help their fallen neighbors.
"If they haven't M & A people for years, does that mean that those of us who were M & A are now welcome back in the household???"
Not long before I left (almost two years ago), I asked that question. The party line is that if they are M&A, it was right. End of story. I then pointed out other statements made to AC grads such as "we're reining it back in (M&A). We went a little overboard on it." Well that was SOOOOO well taken. LOL! No more asking me about being a tc after that. :-)
The contradiction was NEVER explained. I'm so surprised. Not!
How do you go a "little overboard" on M&A anyway? Isn't that like the proverbial "little pregnant?"
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Radar OReilly
Yeah, what outandabout said!!!!
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dmiller
Can a leapord change it's stripes, and a zebra change it's spots?
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Gee --- did I get that right?
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Catcup
Yes, what Outandabout said.
And if they are so kinder and gentler, and understand that the previous actions they took were wrong, where is the apology to those they harmed?
They stomp all over people, destroy them, and walk on like it never happened.
I think there is record in the OT of a whore who wipes her mouth and denies her act.
Just like TWI.
Slut.
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indyrobb
1st no 2nd yes
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Steve!
Well, at least you've dotted all your t's and crossed all your i's.
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Jim
Damn, and it's too late to have the ROA this year...
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johniam
What ever happened to Insurgent? He'd know first hand.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
oldiesman
Postaholic
posted September 01, 2004 10:23
One way I can think of right off the bat if they're different would be in the abs category, and if there is no compulsion.
For example, when going to twig in the '70's, I never experienced a directive/mandate by the tc or leadership to tithe or abs; one may give cash if one desired as well. If one desired not to give, one was still allowed to attend twig, and keep attending, without giving any money. Then I hear in the '90's, all that changed, and they required you to at least tithe, and wanted you to give a check, so they could keep track.
Is all that changed now? If I wanted, could I go to twig as often as I like and not be bothered if I don't feel like sending money to hq?
surely you jest OM. one is subtle and the other blatent. Twi of the 70's was small and subtle. TWI of the 80's to 90's was bigger and therefore more demanding. Twi of the o1's and now are small and try to go back to the 70's their cash flow!!! NOTHING has changed!!!
a pile of shinola under a different name smells the same
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ChasUFarley
If they got rid of the dictators, then why is the Queen of the Dictators still the Prez? Why are Greg & Lori Bolc#alk still in Gunnison running the WC? Why is Jeff & Diane K@r@$ still region coordinators of New England?
All I can see they've done is move LCM out of the way because he cost them the most money and promoted everyone else. RFR got herself a little lapdog of a vice prez and promoted her favorites where she wanted them.
Whoop-dee-doo....
You can put some lovely, lacy Victoria's Secret panties on to cover up an @$$hole, but there's still @$$hole there under that sweet covering...
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Radar OReilly
Thanks Chas,
NOBODY DOES IT BETTER !!!!
BTW.......you are naming your next born after ME right?
;)-->
Radar
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My3Cents
You mean LCM wears Victoria Secret? WOW!
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dmiller
My bad!
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dizzydog
All I can say is that the information about TWI's abuses has been available for decades.
While I'm thankful that so many realized in recent years the problems in TWI; I wonder why they were so oblivious years ago.
Certainly they were warned in the late eighties when such a mass exodus took place. Many of the folks who I have talked to who are such staunch crtics of TWI were also the same people who were marking and avoiding those of us who left before they did. All of sudden they are out and the language is all about what was done to them, but rarely about what they did to others.
I know for me this was a hard pill to swallow and the greatest change in me didn't happen when I left TWI but rather when I finally allowed myself to start to be transformed by Christ.
It's easy to be critical of everyone else but to turn that magnifying glass on ourselves is a different proposition.
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Goey
Posted by Dizzydog
You noticed that too?
Sure there are quite a few folks who were M & A'd unwillingly and might even still still be in TWI today if they had their druthers back then.
While they were in TWI, it seems that all was OK until it happend to them. Man that must have been a shocker and hoepfully a wake up call to many of these folks - M&A'ing your brohers and sisters and getting all up in thier faces one day - and then getting it done to you the next? And then and only then becoming a critic of TWI?
Hey, it takes what it takes - I am glad they are out.
But, in all fairness many of these folks have seen the errors of their ways and have made an honest effort to right their wrongs. Others, I am sure, have not and possibly only see themslves as the victims - human nature I suppose - hopefully someday they will get past the denial, see the big picture and make thier ammends.
TWI turned a lot of good folks into insensitive asswipes. After TWI, it is up to us (our duty) to right our past wrongs as best we can.
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CoolWaters
Yep...and many of those asswipes are out doing the same thing they were doing when in...maybe in a "kinder, gentler" way, but it's the same thing.
Can anybody say "offshoot"?
Regardless of twi's current policies, the tree was born of foul seed...and the apples that haven't fallen far from that tree have proven that over and over again.
Kill the seed...it's the only way...
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rascal
and then there are those of us who had no clue the depths of evil that were being practiced behind the scenes in twi....and remained oblivious ...staunch supporters even years after leaving....
There are those of us who supported twi through thick and thin never dreaming that we were the cover for heinous evil.
It`s kind of natural to be peeved when you find out the depths of that betrayal...
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Goey
Rascal,
Did you support TWI's policy of Mark and Avoid? Did you ever M&A someone? - Participate in bearing false witness againt a brother or sister in Christ? Did you ever bust up a family in the name of the Ministry? - or cover up an abuse situation? I bet not.
These are the kind of things I think Dizzydog was refering to.
Being angry for TWI lies and deceptions is one thing - Someone being angry at TWI for kicking them out while not admitting their part in doing the same to others (if they did such things)is another.
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rascal
ok goey, you are right..lol...sometimes I try to jam someone elses shoe onto my foot...
I thought that I was reading that the reason that I was mad because Jesus hadn`t worked in my life yet.
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dizzydog
I think I agree with both of you, not to sound like a certain politician who is running for president...
I think about the things I was ignorant of in TWI and do feel a sense of betrayal. But then I think about my own behavior toward others and realize that I didn't get out of the situation without my own level of culpability.
TWI was not a good place for a young man with raging hormones and plenty of willing partners. I don't say this to boast, I am rather embarassed about my behavior and I was perfectly justified by the doctrine of the day.
I think about who I hurt and regret my actions to this day. I suppose I could say I didn't know any better but that wouldn't be entirely honest. Now I have a daughter and the thought of her being involved with a group like TWI, or meeting someone like me there makes me just about climb out of my own skin.
I have other situations and other examples but that's not really the point. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. This point was regularly glossed over in TWI.
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mzimagine
If they haven't M & A people for years, does that mean that those of us who were M & A are now welcome back in the household???
I don't think so.
My family will still not fellowship with me.
Maybe it is because I am STILL considered M & A?
Maybe it is because I am such a nasty person.
:)-->
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JustThinking
Goey:
"TWI turned a lot of good folks into insensitive asswipes. After TWI, it is up to us (our duty) to right our past wrongs as best we can."
Well said! I never M&A anyone, was not actually involved in that process (as I wasn't a tc) and wasn't M&A myself. HOWEVER, even though I didn't pull the trigger (figuratively speaking), if I didn't do enough to stop things, I feel I bear some blame too. Stories of regular folks ignoring atrocities in times of war, genocide, etc. are very common. The amazing thing to me about the goodness in people is that usually some rise up and do amazing things to help their fallen neighbors.
Kind of like Paw and folks here.
JT
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JustThinking
mzimagine quote:
"If they haven't M & A people for years, does that mean that those of us who were M & A are now welcome back in the household???"
Not long before I left (almost two years ago), I asked that question. The party line is that if they are M&A, it was right. End of story. I then pointed out other statements made to AC grads such as "we're reining it back in (M&A). We went a little overboard on it." Well that was SOOOOO well taken. LOL! No more asking me about being a tc after that. :-)
The contradiction was NEVER explained. I'm so surprised. Not!
How do you go a "little overboard" on M&A anyway? Isn't that like the proverbial "little pregnant?"
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mzimagine
Justthinking,
Thank you for your comment.
It helps me understand my situation a bit better.
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