When the New Knoxville high school officials had these plans in the works....to visit Washington DC and see this museum....lcm & co. went toe-to-toe on this issue. From what he told us on corps meeting (mid-90s -- ??)....the NK school officials "revised" the junior/senior trip.
TWI has always had some sort of thing about the Holocost ordeal. I think it goes back to even VPW, i seem to remember VP saying that it was either over exagerated or not that many people died in the jewish camps during WW2. Even though all the evidence was in black and white and all of the survivors still around that witnessed it first hand.
The book that TWI said was the main evedence that it didn't really happen was something like "The myth of the 6,000,000" or something like that.
I had an uncle that served in WW2 that saw the camps after the people were liberated and being treeted from all the cruel treetment that they had to endure.
It doesn't surprise me that the "Neo-Nazi" leadership would still have some qualmes about what happened in Germany during the war really did happen and letting the young people that are in the ministry find out the truth.
Yep. Ole craigers was gonna go stand in the crap (sorry, stand in the gap- same thing anyway) for the precious lil hearts of the younguns. At least that was the spin he put on it. Somehow, with Herculean effort, he was gonna stand between the kids and "devilish" influences.
Holy cow, unless these kids were really, really, "sheltered" from the evils of da debil, they were exposed to just about as gruesome images on TV and video games. The corpse kids in my area sure did not fall into the category of a protected childhood. They were free to do almost anything they wanted.
I think craigers privately probably went into a rage. Publically, he sure did not seem to be very calm about it. How dare they expose "his" kids to a lie? After all, that is what he and his predecessor believed- holocaust never happened, Jews lied, Jews really were not Jews anyway- that the whole thing was manufactured so that the Jews could get the money. Incredible.
This kind of crap coming from an "educated" man troubles me.
Personally, I think he was chosen to run the outfit because he was about the lowest brain of the bunch. Proved himself to blindly follow hair brained stupidity to the letter. Without his mentor, he couldn't just leave things alone, he had to come up with junk that was even worse.
Anyway, what would have been the big deal if the kids went? I think I know- they would ask questions. And the parents or staff would not have adequate answers. Just stupid stuff like chemical analysis done on bricks that were never even in the camps to begin with. Kids are pretty smart; most will not settle for stupid answers.
First time I visited Headquarters in 1974 a little book printed in black and white by this same title was avaible at the small bookstore they had at the back of the BRC. I remember seeing it and being intrigued by it. Now I believe it is hogwash.
Here is a gem from this publication:
"In spite of all the international commotion and the vast barrage of irresponsible print which has flooded the world on Eichmann since May, 1960, there is not the slightest substantial evidence that Eichmann ever deliberately ordered even one Jew gassed in a German concentration camp, to say nothing of having ordered and supervised the extermination of six million Jews."
And here is a phrase I heard LCM say on several occasions in recent years. It went something like this didn't it Skyrider? Quote:
"The Jews of today are no more God's chosen people than the Apachee Indians!!"
How insulting! Perhaps this is why The Way has been accused of being anti-semitic.
My class, we were 8th graders, was the class that they freaked out about it over. April 1994. I went to DC 4 years later and had the opportunity to visit the holocaust museaum. I enjoyed it as much as one could enjoy that, it is a dreary topic and all.
what was messed up about the whole dc trip was that I'd asked my mom for guidance because it is a deep topic. She never thought about asking that it be removed from the trip plan but I think that either M Stout's(father ran ROA) or T Maxson's(played piano on SNS) parents realized it was on the agenda and freaked out like literally a few days before we were leaving...
So TWI doesn't just try to re-write their own history, but they want to re-write whatever other parts of history they don't like. Another, "just ignore it and it will go away" tactic regarding the holocaust and their kids.
Whether you fault Mr. Hoggan's credibility over this is immaterial to me. I fail to see why people still want to make a big stink over this. The Jews were certainly not the ones who lost the most as a result of World War II.
World War II is still alive in the memory of many Russian people today. Over twenty million Russians died in this horrible war yet the media still trumps up the 6 million Jew figures. The media's been tootin' that ol' horn for decades.
The Soviets by and large bore the brunt of the war in every way. The Russians lost the most people. They suffered the greatest privations, of which Leningrad was the most striking example. They did most of the fighting, especially during the long months while the Allies remained on the periphery of the fighting. I wonder what people would say (or do) if a museum were ever erected in the US to honor the twenty million Russians who lost their lives? Doubt it will ever happen.
What the Hay, it was the horrible way in which the mostly Jews were slaughtered at the Nazi Death Camps. It was no myth.
Read about it online, or visit or read accounts of survivors and you may understand better. I do not see anything wrong with wanting to tell that story and to comemorate forever the lives of all those innocent men, women and little kids whose lives were painfully snuffed out like brushfire. It was pure evil and only 60 years ago! I was reading that one tour guide at Auschwitz said no birds or animals go on those grounds to this day!
In 60 years we will no doubt be telling the details of Sept 11th, though there have been incidents with larger losses of life. Yet, in some ways I believe it pales in comparison to the Death Camps.
And Stalin is probably responsible for the deaths of more Russians than Hitler.
But this was not just nationality this was race and religion - the Nazis considered several races as inferior but saw the Jews as a cancer within and as a world conspiracy and the fact that many famous Jews were Communists helped feed their fantasy.
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outandabout
WHAT???? They refused to allow Way kids to visit the Holocaust Museum?????? WHAT!!!????
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skyrider
Yes,...twi's bod refused.
When the New Knoxville high school officials had these plans in the works....to visit Washington DC and see this museum....lcm & co. went toe-to-toe on this issue. From what he told us on corps meeting (mid-90s -- ??)....the NK school officials "revised" the junior/senior trip.
This was an ongoing "debate" for a few years.
Any change?
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danteh1
TWI has always had some sort of thing about the Holocost ordeal. I think it goes back to even VPW, i seem to remember VP saying that it was either over exagerated or not that many people died in the jewish camps during WW2. Even though all the evidence was in black and white and all of the survivors still around that witnessed it first hand.
The book that TWI said was the main evedence that it didn't really happen was something like "The myth of the 6,000,000" or something like that.
I had an uncle that served in WW2 that saw the camps after the people were liberated and being treeted from all the cruel treetment that they had to endure.
It doesn't surprise me that the "Neo-Nazi" leadership would still have some qualmes about what happened in Germany during the war really did happen and letting the young people that are in the ministry find out the truth.
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excathedra
that makes me sick. how did he influence the NK officials ? that's what you mean right ?
who said something on the other thread about protecting hearts or something ?
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Ham
Yep. Ole craigers was gonna go stand in the crap (sorry, stand in the gap- same thing anyway) for the precious lil hearts of the younguns. At least that was the spin he put on it. Somehow, with Herculean effort, he was gonna stand between the kids and "devilish" influences.
Holy cow, unless these kids were really, really, "sheltered" from the evils of da debil, they were exposed to just about as gruesome images on TV and video games. The corpse kids in my area sure did not fall into the category of a protected childhood. They were free to do almost anything they wanted.
I think craigers privately probably went into a rage. Publically, he sure did not seem to be very calm about it. How dare they expose "his" kids to a lie? After all, that is what he and his predecessor believed- holocaust never happened, Jews lied, Jews really were not Jews anyway- that the whole thing was manufactured so that the Jews could get the money. Incredible.
This kind of crap coming from an "educated" man troubles me.
Personally, I think he was chosen to run the outfit because he was about the lowest brain of the bunch. Proved himself to blindly follow hair brained stupidity to the letter. Without his mentor, he couldn't just leave things alone, he had to come up with junk that was even worse.
Anyway, what would have been the big deal if the kids went? I think I know- they would ask questions. And the parents or staff would not have adequate answers. Just stupid stuff like chemical analysis done on bricks that were never even in the camps to begin with. Kids are pretty smart; most will not settle for stupid answers.
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igotout
I believe it was because of their belief in this concept:
Myth of The 6 Million Jews
First time I visited Headquarters in 1974 a little book printed in black and white by this same title was avaible at the small bookstore they had at the back of the BRC. I remember seeing it and being intrigued by it. Now I believe it is hogwash.
Here is a gem from this publication:
"In spite of all the international commotion and the vast barrage of irresponsible print which has flooded the world on Eichmann since May, 1960, there is not the slightest substantial evidence that Eichmann ever deliberately ordered even one Jew gassed in a German concentration camp, to say nothing of having ordered and supervised the extermination of six million Jews."
And here is a phrase I heard LCM say on several occasions in recent years. It went something like this didn't it Skyrider? Quote:
"The Jews of today are no more God's chosen people than the Apachee Indians!!"
How insulting! Perhaps this is why The Way has been accused of being anti-semitic.
Shame.
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meganpenworthy
My class, we were 8th graders, was the class that they freaked out about it over. April 1994. I went to DC 4 years later and had the opportunity to visit the holocaust museaum. I enjoyed it as much as one could enjoy that, it is a dreary topic and all.
what was messed up about the whole dc trip was that I'd asked my mom for guidance because it is a deep topic. She never thought about asking that it be removed from the trip plan but I think that either M Stout's(father ran ROA) or T Maxson's(played piano on SNS) parents realized it was on the agenda and freaked out like literally a few days before we were leaving...
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vickles
I remember vpw stating that the holocast never happened. It must have been when I was in the corpse.
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My3Cents
He also said the world would be a different place if Hitler had won! He didn't say it much or publically - but I did hear him say it.
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Belle
So TWI doesn't just try to re-write their own history, but they want to re-write whatever other parts of history they don't like. Another, "just ignore it and it will go away" tactic regarding the holocaust and their kids.
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What The Hay
One can read: "The Myth of the Six Million" by David Hoggan, PhD. on-line.
The Myth of the Six Million
Whether you fault Mr. Hoggan's credibility over this is immaterial to me. I fail to see why people still want to make a big stink over this. The Jews were certainly not the ones who lost the most as a result of World War II.
World War II is still alive in the memory of many Russian people today. Over twenty million Russians died in this horrible war yet the media still trumps up the 6 million Jew figures. The media's been tootin' that ol' horn for decades.
The Soviets by and large bore the brunt of the war in every way. The Russians lost the most people. They suffered the greatest privations, of which Leningrad was the most striking example. They did most of the fighting, especially during the long months while the Allies remained on the periphery of the fighting. I wonder what people would say (or do) if a museum were ever erected in the US to honor the twenty million Russians who lost their lives? Doubt it will ever happen.
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igotout
What the Hay, it was the horrible way in which the mostly Jews were slaughtered at the Nazi Death Camps. It was no myth.
Read about it online, or visit or read accounts of survivors and you may understand better. I do not see anything wrong with wanting to tell that story and to comemorate forever the lives of all those innocent men, women and little kids whose lives were painfully snuffed out like brushfire. It was pure evil and only 60 years ago! I was reading that one tour guide at Auschwitz said no birds or animals go on those grounds to this day!
In 60 years we will no doubt be telling the details of Sept 11th, though there have been incidents with larger losses of life. Yet, in some ways I believe it pales in comparison to the Death Camps.
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Trefor Heywood
And Stalin is probably responsible for the deaths of more Russians than Hitler.
But this was not just nationality this was race and religion - the Nazis considered several races as inferior but saw the Jews as a cancer within and as a world conspiracy and the fact that many famous Jews were Communists helped feed their fantasy.
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