Mel's movie... "the Passion"

[J0nny Ling0]

And ya know Dot Matrix,

There has been, since I can remember, plays around the U.S. called "Passion Plays". My mom took us to one once, and it was a play about Christs' crucifixion. There is a fairly famous one in the Black Hills of South Dakota. I think it is called the "Black Hills Passion PLay".

http://www.blackhills.com/bhpp/pp_index.htm

I can't remember where the one was that we saw because I was only five or so. There is also a really famous Passion Play over in Germany at a place called "Oberammergau" or something like that. This village is high in the Alps, and people go this Passion PLay like a pilgrimage. This may have been the first Passion Play, which evidently started a trend. I think my mother went to that one once. Here is a brief blurb on it:

quote:

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The Story of how Oberammergau got started

The Passion Play is performed every 10 years in the city of Oberammergau, Germany. In the midst of the horror of the 30 years' war,the dreaded plague swept across Europe. High in the Bavarian Alps, the citizens of Oberammergau attempted to seal themselves off from the outside world. When a homesick young man sneaked into the village and brought the pestilence with him, 84 residents died within 3 weeks. In desperation, the town council made a solemn vow that if God would stop the

plague, out of gratitude, they would present a play depicting the life and suffering of Christ for the duration of their existence. Miraculously, the plague took no more lives in the town. True to their word, the villagers performed their first play in 1634, and

have continued to do so to this day. The play takes place out doors where the sky and mountains are the back drop. A wonderful spectacle of pageantry. World renown for the costumes and music presentation.

About the town of Oberammergau

Nestled in a high Alpine valley, Oberammergau provides a breathtaking setting. The play takes place in a covered auditorium with an open-air stage, built in 1930 to insure performance regardless of weather conditions. The open-air stage design creates a backdrop of green fields, mountains and blue skies.

According to the vow, all the actors, now over 700 strong, must be born in Oberammergau. Townspeople wrote score and designed and built the theatre. Long hair and beards are grown for years for the occasion. More than a thousand elaborate, colorful costumes add to the tradition-rich presentation.

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quote:

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http://www.passionplaytours.com/

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Well, I thought that fairly interesting. So I would venture to say that Mel's movie is a cinematic Passion Play. But I always did think that it was weird to say "passion" when making a reference to death. But what do I know? I grew up an illiterate moron, mostly..

Edited March 1, 2004 by Guest

[Dot Matrix]

Don't foget the "caveman" as well...

My favorite.

Well, I guess I was under a rock. My parents NEVER went to church. My father is an agnostic and my mother was an "I dunno" I went to church with the neighbors. I asked if I could go -- my parents were like don't you want to stay home Sunday and eat waffles?

SO, I hitch hiked my way around the churches with other families. I never heard the term "passion" Refer to suffereing and pain.

So, a man and wife go to a therapist and the Doctor asks, "How is your passion?"

The wife is Catholic and says, "oh we have plenty of passion."

The hubs a protestant and says, "We have none."

The jewish Doctor says, "Very interesting."

The wife means "suffering" the protestant means "hot for one another"

Life can be easily misunderstood, eh?

Even with all this knowledge of "the passion" it was a movie about Jesus suffering.

I still hated that it was not done in English and had I not been under a rock and known it was a big downer about the beatings of Christ -- I may have skipped it.

[Watered Garden]

I cannot begin to say how moved I was by seeing The Passion. I had to lay aside all the doctrin and dogma I had heard and seen throughout my lifetime, and simply look at this as what it was. Obviously it is not entirely objective and some of it is based on tradition. However, I think it was a very wonderful experience for me. Rough, but awesome.

I am not surprised at how this film has polarized so many people. After all, the real Jesus Christ did the same in His time on earth and will continue to do so.

On the other hand, my son just said what a good movie and my daughter-in-law had a look of absolute distaste and didn't say a word.

I am glad the truth about the suffering of Christ was brought out in the open. A lot of folks, God love 'em, are coca-cola Christians these days, all fizz and sweetness and no real substance. And they don't see their own worth -Jesus did that for mebecause I am precious to Him.

What do I want to do now? Well, the first thing this morning, I hunted down a resident who has also seen the film, and apologized to him for being such a smart-a$$ to him. He apologized right back! We talked about how we want to change our lives as a result of seeing The Passion.

I want to be a better person, and with more guts to stand for what is right.

I honestly feel more at peace with myself and my relationship to God than I have for years. Not the Catholic church, nor TWI, or any denomination, nor height nor depth nor any other creature can separate mefrom the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Whatever church is attended, this is the ultimate message of the Passion, in my opinion. Jesus transcends denomination, race, religion, and even politics!

WG

[wasway]

Did anyone who saw the film notice where the Christ bruised his heal on the serpents head?

[Dot Matrix]

Yes. I thought that was cool!

[Dot Matrix]

Mark

What are stations of the cross?

[markomalley]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dot Matrix:

Mark

What are stations of the cross?

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The Stations of the Cross are a devotion that helps Christians re-live Christ's passion along the Via Dolorosa in Jerusalem. It represents what is the fulcrum of his life; the fulfilling of the prophecy of old. Christians have always been encouraged to make a pilgramage to Jerusalem in order to walk in His footsteps; this devotion, which can be done at home, as well as in Jerusalem, provides an opportunity to do so at home.

It traditionally consists of 14 "stations," which represent particular moments along the way of His passion:

1. Christ condemned to death;

2. The cross is laid upon him;

3. His first fall;

4. He meets His Blessed Mother;

5. Simon of Cyrene is made to bear the cross;

6. Christ's face is wiped by Veronica;

7. His second fall;

8. He meets the women of Jerusalem;

9. His third fall;

10. He is stripped of His garments;

11. His crucifixion;

12. His death on the cross;

13. His body is taken down from the cross; and

14. He is laid in the tomb

Recently, the current Pope has added another "station" to the devotion:

15. He rises from the dead. (although not technically part of the passion, it is, obviously, inseparable from it).

Here is a web site that has some interesting reflections on the Stations that you may enjoy, particularly after having seen "The Passion:"

via Crucis

For many Catholics, this is a particularly popular devotion on Fridays in Lent. (Why do you think Mel Gibson decided to have his movie open on Ash Wednesday? -- it's the perfect time of year for it)

Hope that helps and isn't too much overkill ;)-->

[Kit Sober]

At many Catholic churches, on Fridays, after the Stations of the Cross, there is a meal of bread and soup. Very nice fellowship.

And it seems, in the focus of the crucifixion, everyone seems kinder, gentler.

And the stories of Pat and Mike abound.

For example: Pat and Mike were two brothers in Ireland who loved each other very much. . . and the farm could not support them both, so Mike came over to America.

And as a way to remember his brother, on Fridays, Mike would have stop at the local tavern and have two beers, one for himself and one for his brother Pat back home in Ireland.

And one day Mike only ordered one beer, and the the tavern people thought something had happened to Pat back in Ireland. . .

So the bartender came over and said, "I see you're only having one beer. Did something happen to your brother Pat back in Ireland?"

"Oh, no," said Mike. "I gave up beer for Lent. This beer here is for my brother Pat."

:)-->," God

Edited March 2, 2004 by Guest

[corrydj]

SAW IT YESTERDAY, LOVED IT. WHAT MORE CAN I SAY?

corrydj

"Why you going to the airport, flyin' somewhere?"

[oldiesman]

WOW, what a terrific film for someone who wants to have a greater appreciation for Christ's sacrifice. Highly recommended!

[oldiesman]

I thought Mel did a good job of conveying, in various scenes, that Christ "gave his life" for us. Although the torture was at the Jews insistence, and the Romans doing the dirty work, Christ could have curtailed it at any time if he wanted to. Instead he chose the torture. WOW, what a Master!

[The Skeptical Texan]

Great film ... deeply moving.

I particularly appreciated the fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 and God's raising Jesus from the dead.

I didn't get the significance of two apocryphal scenes. Why does Mary blot up the blood of Jesus following the scourging? And, what was the devil and the deformed baby scene about?

[markomalley]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Skeptical Texan:

I didn't get the significance of two apocryphal scenes. Why does Mary blot up the blood of Jesus following the scourging? And, what was the devil and the deformed baby scene about?

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Here is a link to a chapter in the book that _Passion_ was based upon:

Mary during the Flagellation of our Lord

The child scene may be explained by the text at this link (I haven't seen the movie yet, but this MAY be what you are referring to. If not, you may be able to find it by looking at the book, The Dolorous Passion of the Christ

Interruption of the Visions of the Passion by the Appearance of St. Joseph under the form of a Child

(edited to replace the text with a hyperlink)

[This message was edited by Mark on March 04, 2004 at 4:47.]

Edited March 4, 2004 by Guest

[The Skeptical Texan]

Thanks, Mark. That explains it!

I don't much buy into the ecstatic visions of Catholic saints, so this part of the film seemed sort of bizarre. I mean, why would the victim's mom clean up the torture chambre?

Even if this was strange to me, it didn't significantly detract from my appreciation of the film. It's really the only Catholic-specific scene that I found distracting. Otherwise, the film seemed to be flawless in bridging the Catholic-Protestant divide.

Another site hypothesizes about the deformed child. It suggests that the Tempter, who holds the deformed child in a manner reminiscent of the Virgin and Child, is trying to tempt Jesus to recognize the futility of his sacrifice. The deformed child is symbolic of the Anti-Christ who Jesus would have known will eventually appear to tempt many. It is another symbolic reference to the Genesis 3:15 prophecy, which refers not only to bruised heals and heads, but also emnity between the Tempter's seed and the woman's seed. (Please, let's not digress in a 'seed-boy' debate.)

This is heavy and, since its topic is Scripture, we're not talking about red pills and blue pills in The Matrix. I'm beginning to wonder whether the film deserves a second viewing!

SkepTex

Edited March 3, 2004 by Guest

[oldiesman]

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I didn't get the reason why Mary mopped up the blood after the scourging. Can't find it in that 199-page link.

[Pirate1974]

"I really feel my career was leading me to make this. The Holy Ghost was working through me on this film, and I was just directing traffic. I hope the film has the power to evangelize." - Mel Gibson

Well, maybe I'm just a cynic, but a lot of these quotes by Mel seem to ring a little hollow considering that there's a website where you can purchase "officially licensed merchandise" such as this:

and this:

and this:

it just looks like the old Hollywood hype machine at work. Maybe all the controversy was stirred up by some PR group just to put more fannies in the seats at your local theater.

I'm waiting for "Passion of the Christ" toys to show up in McDonald's Happy Meals.

[J0nny Ling0]

You seem a tad cynical Pirate. I think it an amazing thing that such "souveniers" are being made popular due to a Hollywood movie. Cups with Scripture? A necklace doo dad with an imitation of a nail used to nail our lord to the cross? Wow! Back in Way days I would have wanted to pick the whole thing apart, but to me, and to many I spose, this is a way cool thing.

My daughter who has been taught the Bible all her life, while in college down in Oregon, went to see the Passion a couple of days ago. She said that she cried her eyes out and came to really understand that "Jesus sacrificed himself for us". I am so thankful for that. We only spoke to her briefly, and that she'll talk with us later.

So for just that, I am thankful..

[Watered Garden]

How is this different from stuff you can buy from Joyce Meyer? Or any other Christan Bookstore? When I wear a cross, I do it because it reminds me of the ultimate sacrifice God was willing to make for me. If I had a coffee mug, it would do the same thing.

My limited understanding is that when someone wants to make a motion picture, they get money from a studio to do it. Mel used his own money to do this - I'm rooting for him to get it back plus!

WG

[Tom Strange]

I see where you're coming from PiMan... "officially licensed"... I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he took the stance of: Someone's gonna make and sell this stuff, might as well try and control some of it... I mean, he made the movie, the movie's gonna make money (already has made a gozillion I believe)... I'm curious what he's gonna do with the "gozillions"...

She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.

[J0nny Ling0]

Uh Tom, not to be rude, but the spelling is "gazillions, not "gozillions.

That's like the difference between Go-rilla and Gue-rilla...HUGE difference!

[This message was edited by Jonny Lingo on March 03, 2004 at 17:25.]

Edited March 3, 2004 by Guest

[Pirate1974]

As of today, this movie has already raked in more than 125 million bucks, which means Mel will get all his money back and then some. That's really not the point. I don't care if it passes "Titanic" as the top box office smash of all time.

I guess I just have a problem reconciling phrases like "it was a calling" and "led by the Holy Spirit" with "officially licensed merchandise."

In my opinion, wearing a nail on a string around your neck is creepy.

[Tom Strange]

Jonny... I was spelling it "Forrest Gump Style"... go check on those bear butt plugs for me... will ya please?

She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.

[Tom Strange]

yeah... Piman... that's why I think it's gonna be interesting to see what he does with the cash... although he could easily just keep it all... since he's taken that "calling" road, I want to see where it ends up...

(I wonder if he'll 'give' it to the church he built)

She's the kind of a girl that makes the "News of the World" Yes you could say she was attractively built.

[Al Poole]

Maybe Mel will follow up with "the Power" and show the ressurected Christ and him appering outta no where and walking into the room through the door etc etc etc.... wouldn't hollywood and all the critics REALLY love that!!!

THAT would be spectacular! One can hope!

Edited March 3, 2004 by Guest

[Zixar]

How about a prequel about his ministry of peace and love? Naaah. Too "Hollywood". :)-->