"Not that hard to believe. Membership increases in an area are ONLY due to members from OTHER areas moving INTO your area. With an aging membership, states where people move as they get older will get more members. Ct is seen as a place to settle down and raise kids.
So, you might see membership in a 5-state area migrate to places like Ct and Fl, say."
hmm, it is expensive to live in Ct.
We are here because we bought an apartment building here back in 1990, while I was stationed here and running a twig. We never had any goals of permanently settling here. The crime is high and cost of living seems terribly high.
While oversea during our last tour, we went through all the investment / retirement magazines to compare where the cheapest cost-of-living and yet highest standard-of-living was. We kind of settled on Maine. But had to return to Ct, to make repairs on this property [We sold all other properties for various reasons].
I would not recommend anyone coming here, except for the immigrants maybe, I rent to a few who come here with nothing, they work double shifts at either casino and often they live in flop-houses in the neighborhood with up to 20 adults sharing an apartment; after a couple years they often have a good-sized nest egg saved up and can move somewhere else. I have assisted a few in finding other places to go, a common theme has been moving to Indiana and starting a Chinese-food take-out. We have some of the very few apartments that rent for low rates and we encourage families to live without any other adults, just the couple and their own children.
When we were here in the late '70s, there seemed to be twigs evenly scattered around the state.
We were again here 90-93, there was 1 - 2 twigs in the Eastern end of Ct [along RI border], nothing in the middle and 6 - 8 twigs along the Western border with NY. I have no idea where any Twigs might be today.
It is difficult to imagine coming here to raise children. We have had so many fights with the school board, and the State Social services department, and the drive-by shootings, street gangs, etc.
HC, just checked your church in Dayton and noticed it offers Alpha/Questions of Life, a much better foundational class than Power for Abundant Living, which is similar to what Belle was saying in an earlier post on this thread. Our church uses this class with The United Methodist Church's Beginnings/Along The Way (no pun intended). And yes, we do the Holy Spirit
Just last year I found out that in the state of Arizona, any non profit organiztion that operates there has to declare their assets. At the time I looked into it they had aroeun 48 mill with properties and cash on hand. One ex 6th corp person said that they were told to invest in gold in other countries. So that is all I have been able to find out at this time.
AC Specials - If you were an AC and didn't go to the AC Special it was either because you were in debt OR you were fixin' to get the holy boot from leadership because you had a family emergency or had to work or something and could not attend it.
and then ---
quote:
Posted by Belle:
Of those AC Grads, the pressure is pretty darn intense to go to the AC Special. It's touted as one of THE most spiritually important events in the ministry. Unlike your time in TWI, most AC Grads do go to this event. Even if a couple can not afford for both parties to go, at least one of them is sent. Again, remember that times changed drastically from your involvement in TWI.
Wow -- I guess the times they did change, Belle and Chas.
The AC was held up as a *high goal* to attain for (early 1970's-1978), and not all made it. If you hadn't had all the collateral *classes* under your belt, you weren't even considered for eligibilty.
For whatever reasons, the rules got *broken* in 1979, and anyone with the cash required was allowed to attend the live AC '79. (Forgive me if I am wrong about this, but this is my perception of that event -- since so many were *allowed* to sit in on what had been a previously hard-earned *reward*, without having had to take all the *classes*).
I took that class in 1979, and then again two years later -- they introcuced a thing called advanced class grad week, where a bunch of AC grads came together -- and took the whole thing over again in a week's period of time.
I went to the one in 1981 as well, but leadership then never pushed any of the AC grads to go (and AC grads were the only one's allowed at these things), nor were any refused entrance for any reason, even for being *out of fellowship*. Reason I say that is because one guy showed up (and stayed the entire week), even though he had not been in the Way *proper* for a while, yet he was an AC grad -- and was welcomed just like the rest of us. Go figure.
The times they aren't a'changin --- they HAVE changed. The more that twi micro-manages folks lives, the less they will have in attendance as folks see that it is all about THEM (twi), and NOT the Word of God. Seemingly the outfit has forgotten that *giving equals receiving* (which in itself is not totally accurate), unless they equate all giving to them, equals all receiving by them. -->
Methinks the *DOPE-SLAP* is alive and well, and being self-administered daily by those who are still in, when they realize how they are being coerced, manipulated, used, and abused by those who claim to love God, and His Word, but are thinking more of themselves, and their own welfare instead.
My prayers daily are for the grounds there at twi. I pray the exit doors are unlocked, open, and free from all obstruction for those who need to *make a move* and do so quickly.
The times have changed, and that small cloud that once looked like a man's hand, is now, and has been obliterating the horizon. That small cloud in 1 Kings, was a Godly thing. The one that has eminated from twi, is not. The first offered deliverance from a drought, the second offers the drought, and famine itself, with no deliverance in sight.
Oh, and I have this from my notes from WayDale in 1999 posted by Paul almost exactly 6 years ago:
Fri May 14, 1999 11:57am
Subject: Re: Current Way Numbers
The Way continues to suffer from the 13 - 14 year long hemorrhage of people leaving its fold. Every day people leave TWI and there are less and less replacements. In March, about 78 WAP (Way of Abundance and Power) classes were run all across the USA. But with the new class size guidelines, those classes were tiny. Average class size 4.5 students.These 350 students were the result of an all out determined effort to win new people to TWI.
Given the historical evidence in TWI on how many people TWI holds on to - those 350 don't go very far. TWI loses that many people every couple of months.
The current numbers for TWI "membership" are as follows:
7,100 total on the mailing list of TWI, less 2000 who are not at a working age (children 12 and up who are WAP class grads)
And they taught us that money should not be horded.
That's right, and they would probably agree with it to this day- the regular "believer" is not spiritually qualified enough to handle money. Therefore it is devilish to do so. You're better off giving it to "them" to hoard.
And they can claim a real victory. Nobody, just nobody, that is a follower in that organization can be accused of living in gluttony, except for the few that are spiritually "qualified" to do so.
If those numbers were from 6 years ago, I imagine it has shrunk even more by now.
As long as the current BOD maintains the appearance of a "Christian ministry" and obeys all the rules for a tax exempt organization...they can continue to live high on the hog. They simply go through the motions...maintain their "classes", their basic structure of "fellowships", tapes, meetings, various events....makes no difference if there are only a handful of followers...they get to keep control of the money and their lifestyles. They do not have the legal right to dissolve the whole thing and split up the loot, they MUST maintain the organization and go through the motions.
I suppose it's easy enough to rationalize the diminished numbers to their followers..."We are the REMNANT who stand in the gap!" "The truth isn't dependant upon numbers!" "Jesus only had 12 disciples!", etc., etc. So.....does Rozilla or any of the others REALLY give a rat's behind how many there are, as long as they can maintain their access to the gravy train?
It's certainly not the current "flow" of ABS money that keeps the ship floating...it's the ABS money that WE all gave over a period of about 25 years! The 50 million (or however much it is), is invested and generates revenue. They could live the rest of their lives on the interest from that money.
So there it is...What we once believed was a growing Godly ministry with vision and purpose...is in reality, a cash cow for a few scumbags that sold us down the river and grabbed the dough.
Yeah, that's what I personally believe. It is becoming more and more obvious. I hear that Rosie does not even make herself known so much these days but allows others to run things and teach, etc. From what I heard from a long time innie recently, she is admired for this and is looked upon as a CEO.
Ha, ha, ha! How much more laughter can we get from the deceived ones.
CEO, yeah right! If she were the CEO of some corporations out there she would have been fired many times over and over for incompetence and corruption.
I see it more like someone who fought their way to the top who is avoiding the LIGHT and living comfortably on the millions available to them while not being productive in any real manner of speaking.
I see it more like someone who fought their way to the top who is avoiding the LIGHT and living comfortably on the millions available to them while not being productive in any real manner of speaking.
Living comfortably except that to keep up the charade, she has to live and work in the middle of a cornfield in the boonies.
I wouldn't do that for $50 million. Money's easier to make than time doing what you love!
[No offense to those who love cornfields, but it's just not me.]
Yeah from the statistics I am hearing it is 4000 tops from the 40000 of their peak in circa 1984.
The bad thing about their declining membership and monetary contribution, now makes them a DANGEROUS Cult. When cult leaders feel they are about to lose control of their flock, that's when Jonestown becomes revisited. These are dirtbags that won't go down alone and will drag every/any one with them. Might sound harsh, but give it 2-5 more years.
Bitterness can consume us and is not our Heavenly Fathers will. Get deliverence. Just forgive and freedom will follow!
You amuse me! You focus on me like you know my 'needs'! Fine, o-ye-glutton-of-punishment, keep talking about my deliverance. I think you're confusing bitterness with apathy and anger with laughter. You see, looking back I have realised what a joke TWI was. But please, enlighten me on your heavenly plan! This way I can see which off-shoot cult I deal with. Don't forget to include the total pricetag in $ for my deliverance, after all I don't want to assume that your plan is free!
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WordWolf:
"Not that hard to believe. Membership increases in an area are ONLY due to members from OTHER areas moving INTO your area. With an aging membership, states where people move as they get older will get more members. Ct is seen as a place to settle down and raise kids.
So, you might see membership in a 5-state area migrate to places like Ct and Fl, say."
hmm, it is expensive to live in Ct.
We are here because we bought an apartment building here back in 1990, while I was stationed here and running a twig. We never had any goals of permanently settling here. The crime is high and cost of living seems terribly high.
While oversea during our last tour, we went through all the investment / retirement magazines to compare where the cheapest cost-of-living and yet highest standard-of-living was. We kind of settled on Maine. But had to return to Ct, to make repairs on this property [We sold all other properties for various reasons].
I would not recommend anyone coming here, except for the immigrants maybe, I rent to a few who come here with nothing, they work double shifts at either casino and often they live in flop-houses in the neighborhood with up to 20 adults sharing an apartment; after a couple years they often have a good-sized nest egg saved up and can move somewhere else. I have assisted a few in finding other places to go, a common theme has been moving to Indiana and starting a Chinese-food take-out. We have some of the very few apartments that rent for low rates and we encourage families to live without any other adults, just the couple and their own children.
When we were here in the late '70s, there seemed to be twigs evenly scattered around the state.
We were again here 90-93, there was 1 - 2 twigs in the Eastern end of Ct [along RI border], nothing in the middle and 6 - 8 twigs along the Western border with NY. I have no idea where any Twigs might be today.
It is difficult to imagine coming here to raise children. We have had so many fights with the school board, and the State Social services department, and the drive-by shootings, street gangs, etc.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
HC, just checked your church in Dayton and noticed it offers Alpha/Questions of Life, a much better foundational class than Power for Abundant Living, which is similar to what Belle was saying in an earlier post on this thread. Our church uses this class with The United Methodist Church's Beginnings/Along The Way (no pun intended). And yes, we do the Holy Spirit
day on Saturday with optional SIT. TLB
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dek52
Just last year I found out that in the state of Arizona, any non profit organiztion that operates there has to declare their assets. At the time I looked into it they had aroeun 48 mill with properties and cash on hand. One ex 6th corp person said that they were told to invest in gold in other countries. So that is all I have been able to find out at this time.
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dmiller
and then ---
Wow -- I guess the times they did change, Belle and Chas.
The AC was held up as a *high goal* to attain for (early 1970's-1978), and not all made it. If you hadn't had all the collateral *classes* under your belt, you weren't even considered for eligibilty.
For whatever reasons, the rules got *broken* in 1979, and anyone with the cash required was allowed to attend the live AC '79. (Forgive me if I am wrong about this, but this is my perception of that event -- since so many were *allowed* to sit in on what had been a previously hard-earned *reward*, without having had to take all the *classes*).
I took that class in 1979, and then again two years later -- they introcuced a thing called advanced class grad week, where a bunch of AC grads came together -- and took the whole thing over again in a week's period of time.
I went to the one in 1981 as well, but leadership then never pushed any of the AC grads to go (and AC grads were the only one's allowed at these things), nor were any refused entrance for any reason, even for being *out of fellowship*. Reason I say that is because one guy showed up (and stayed the entire week), even though he had not been in the Way *proper* for a while, yet he was an AC grad -- and was welcomed just like the rest of us. Go figure.
The times they aren't a'changin --- they HAVE changed. The more that twi micro-manages folks lives, the less they will have in attendance as folks see that it is all about THEM (twi), and NOT the Word of God. Seemingly the outfit has forgotten that *giving equals receiving* (which in itself is not totally accurate), unless they equate all giving to them, equals all receiving by them.
-->
Methinks the *DOPE-SLAP* is alive and well, and being self-administered daily by those who are still in, when they realize how they are being coerced, manipulated, used, and abused by those who claim to love God, and His Word, but are thinking more of themselves, and their own welfare instead.
My prayers daily are for the grounds there at twi. I pray the exit doors are unlocked, open, and free from all obstruction for those who need to *make a move* and do so quickly.
The times have changed, and that small cloud that once looked like a man's hand, is now, and has been obliterating the horizon. That small cloud in 1 Kings, was a Godly thing. The one that has eminated from twi, is not. The first offered deliverance from a drought, the second offers the drought, and famine itself, with no deliverance in sight.
David
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Oakspear
News Flash...there are now only 44 people in TWI: they M&A'd a couple who questioned leadership and one of the ventriloquists turned out to be gay
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dmiller
OAK!!!!
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
Here I am trying to be serious (for once), and yer stealing my *thunder*
:P-->
Where's a moderater, when ya need one!?
--> 
:D--> 
-->
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Oakspear
Oops...Forty FIVE...one of the cardboard cutouts in the auditorium turned out to be real
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igotout
Nice post HCW. You said it all and I agree wholeheartedly. In fact I copied it. It is a good summary of the current situation.
DEAD.
And the current directors have control of as much as $50 million of OUR hard earned ABS.
Why on earth would anyone think they need more?
What are they doing with it but hording it. And they taught us that money should not be horded.
They should practice what they preach.
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igotout
Oh, and I have this from my notes from WayDale in 1999 posted by Paul almost exactly 6 years ago:
Fri May 14, 1999 11:57am
Subject: Re: Current Way Numbers
The Way continues to suffer from the 13 - 14 year long hemorrhage of people leaving its fold. Every day people leave TWI and there are less and less replacements. In March, about 78 WAP (Way of Abundance and Power) classes were run all across the USA. But with the new class size guidelines, those classes were tiny. Average class size 4.5 students.These 350 students were the result of an all out determined effort to win new people to TWI.
Given the historical evidence in TWI on how many people TWI holds on to - those 350 don't go very far. TWI loses that many people every couple of months.
The current numbers for TWI "membership" are as follows:
7,100 total on the mailing list of TWI, less 2000 who are not at a working age (children 12 and up who are WAP class grads)
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outandabout
That's a total outrage! Is that even legal? Taking our money for "the move of God's Word" and hording it?
Class action lawsuit, anyone?
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Ham
That's right, and they would probably agree with it to this day- the regular "believer" is not spiritually qualified enough to handle money. Therefore it is devilish to do so. You're better off giving it to "them" to hoard.
And they can claim a real victory. Nobody, just nobody, that is a follower in that organization can be accused of living in gluttony, except for the few that are spiritually "qualified" to do so.
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Ham
Life is so hard at the top- ptooie. Just wait..
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GrouchoMarxJr
If those numbers were from 6 years ago, I imagine it has shrunk even more by now.
As long as the current BOD maintains the appearance of a "Christian ministry" and obeys all the rules for a tax exempt organization...they can continue to live high on the hog. They simply go through the motions...maintain their "classes", their basic structure of "fellowships", tapes, meetings, various events....makes no difference if there are only a handful of followers...they get to keep control of the money and their lifestyles. They do not have the legal right to dissolve the whole thing and split up the loot, they MUST maintain the organization and go through the motions.
I suppose it's easy enough to rationalize the diminished numbers to their followers..."We are the REMNANT who stand in the gap!" "The truth isn't dependant upon numbers!" "Jesus only had 12 disciples!", etc., etc. So.....does Rozilla or any of the others REALLY give a rat's behind how many there are, as long as they can maintain their access to the gravy train?
It's certainly not the current "flow" of ABS money that keeps the ship floating...it's the ABS money that WE all gave over a period of about 25 years! The 50 million (or however much it is), is invested and generates revenue. They could live the rest of their lives on the interest from that money.
So there it is...What we once believed was a growing Godly ministry with vision and purpose...is in reality, a cash cow for a few scumbags that sold us down the river and grabbed the dough.
Class action?....Might be worth a try.
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rascal
Count me in!
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igotout
Yeah, that's what I personally believe. It is becoming more and more obvious. I hear that Rosie does not even make herself known so much these days but allows others to run things and teach, etc. From what I heard from a long time innie recently, she is admired for this and is looked upon as a CEO.
Ha, ha, ha! How much more laughter can we get from the deceived ones.
CEO, yeah right! If she were the CEO of some corporations out there she would have been fired many times over and over for incompetence and corruption.
I see it more like someone who fought their way to the top who is avoiding the LIGHT and living comfortably on the millions available to them while not being productive in any real manner of speaking.
Yeah, folks, your abundant sharing at work.
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My3Cents
Living comfortably except that to keep up the charade, she has to live and work in the middle of a cornfield in the boonies.
I wouldn't do that for $50 million. Money's easier to make than time doing what you love!
[No offense to those who love cornfields, but it's just not me.]
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signals
Yeah from the statistics I am hearing it is 4000 tops from the 40000 of their peak in circa 1984.
The bad thing about their declining membership and monetary contribution, now makes them a DANGEROUS Cult. When cult leaders feel they are about to lose control of their flock, that's when Jonestown becomes revisited. These are dirtbags that won't go down alone and will drag every/any one with them. Might sound harsh, but give it 2-5 more years.
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WordWolf
The consensus around here, signals,
is that the people at the top of twi now most prize money and comfort.
Since twi's assets are mostly tied up in the "non-profit" organization,
they have to keep the thing intact on paper and at least PRETEND to care
about people in order to keep it-and their cash cow-alive.
With it alive, they have 5-hour workweeks, cushy salaries,
indentured servants doing all their chores and cooking all their meals,
full health coverage, and so on.
So, they want to keep it intact as long as humanly possible, because
otherwise they "kill the goose that lays the golden eggs".
They can't just put all the money in a suitcase and flee the country.
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Belle
I would love to know what L*uie L*nd knows about how they cook the books. I'm sure it must be pretty interesting since he just kind of disappeared.
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signals
Interesting!
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nervecurve
Siganls,
Bitterness can consume us and is not our Heavenly Fathers will. Get deliverence. Just forgive and freedom will follow!
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Steve!
I would say the same to you, nevercuver.
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nervecurve
Steve,
Thank you, I'm delivered.
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signals
You amuse me! You focus on me like you know my 'needs'! Fine, o-ye-glutton-of-punishment, keep talking about my deliverance. I think you're confusing bitterness with apathy and anger with laughter. You see, looking back I have realised what a joke TWI was. But please, enlighten me on your heavenly plan! This way I can see which off-shoot cult I deal with. Don't forget to include the total pricetag in $ for my deliverance, after all I don't want to assume that your plan is free!
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