One of the problems is that the deniers claims are supposedly established using a methodology that has a VERY thin veneer of science.
"we stole the bricks.. we did the tests.. there was NO cyanide present"
To the uneducated, and unfortunately, some educated people, it can look convincing. Until closer examination of the evidence.
One jackasses "scientific" analysis was performed on fifty year old bricks- that were subjected to decades of eastern europe acid rain. Somehow, he was shocked to NOT find cyanide.
The guy that did the lab work did have a bachelors degree, in English.
One of the guys who claimed "official" experience and who promulgated this theory is the guy who calls himself an "execution engineer" - Fred Ward or Fred something anyway.
Come the think of it Fred Ward was in Tremors so it's Fred somebody else.
To all our collegues. You might want to read "A soldier's life" on Gen Patton. It gives some rather detailed insight into the concentration camps that the US helped liberate. Something else to think about, these camps were originally designed for all those who made the mistake of opposing Hitler in the early years. I have friends who served in Europe during WW II.
Also, look for a novel by Leon Uris "Armageddon"
The early part of the book covering the end of WW II & the camps is all based on documentation provided by the US Army personnel whe were there.
They said the stories in the media over the years only scratched the surface of what it was really like. -->
As for myself, I bought the lie. I was fooled by the thin veneer of supposed "science", the arguing about numbers actually murdered, the rationalization.
It was very chilling indeed, to read what the "other side" had to say.
yeah, Ham, and even try visiting the Holocost Museum in Jerusalem, a place that any "Bible Lands Tour" sponsered by TWI didn't even acknowledge existed. :)-->
A whole country exists today because of what happened during WWII and all the refugees leftover.
When I was 12 years old, long before I got involved with twi, I was snooping in my father's photo lab/darkroom and I found some horrifying pictures. My father had a photo developing business before he started his TV show and apparently a soldier returning from WW2 asked him to develop some pictures which he had brought back from europe. I found out later that the army had decreed that all pictures taken at the death camps had to be turned over to them for evidence and that this solder had snuck them out.
They gave me nightmares - the bodies stacked like firewood, the expressions on the gaunt faces, the starved skin-and-bones bodies...
I knew damned well it happened. No one could tell me different.
That sounds like old films that I saw back in junior high school. The images still haunt me. These were old reals taken of death camps. They also took videos of officials visiting these places (some of which were women) and they were overwhelmed with sadness and grief. One woman fainted at the sight. I watched this in the seventh grade,1974, and I'll never forget it.
The sad reality is that many former way people still hold on to some of the more arcane teachings including the myth of the holocaust or the "Ancient Babylon Religion" book that I hear the author withdrew. Its frustrating when I encounter former Way people who talk like the only thing wrong with TWI was the fact that it feel apart at the top because of power struggles. They still feel like what was taught was right on and god breathed and all that jazz.
When I run into these types its like talking to a brick wall. Its not going to changethem and you will only get tired and frustrated trying to get them to reconsider way teachings such as the myth of the holocaust.
Then I realized that lots of these people had no real exposure to other churches or even formal education beyond high school (if that) so TWI was their primary source of not only religious instruction but "science" and "history". It became their school in effect so for them to throw all that off would be a lot of work on their part.
Its amazing how many "experts" on science, lnaguage, and history there are coming from TWI. They take what they leanred from VPW or LCM and speak it like its authoritative and laugh and mock people who have gone to real schools and actually put in the time and hard work to learn things. But as long as they romance their Way experience or deify VPW or look at like thorugh those Way colored glasses then they will never relent on their belief that things like the holocaust never happened.
I remember hearing Corrie Ten Boom speak when I was in Jr. High School. She had pictures and told some of the most incredible stories.
I remember trying to reconcile what TWI taught about the Holocaust with the stories of Corrie Ten Boom, Anne Frank's Diary, my grandparent's visits to the concentration camps and all the other stuff. I couldn't do it, but it was one of those things I "held in abayance". I never disputed it either though.
I remember over twelve years ago hearing about staff people who were refusing to allow their kids to go to the Holocaust museum for some Wash DC trip the kids were going on. I have no idea if they got out of that part and what reasons they told the school
Smurfette, I think TWI has forbidden their children to go or mandated that they not go to that part of the trip for years. I vaguely remember something about it as recently as a couple of years ago.
Think of how stupid the TWIt kids much seem to other people. Pity since many of them are smart.
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Belle
Sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing it TF. I'm going to see if they have it at the library.
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dmiller
Belle -- It is by Albert Haas, and can also be found at:
AMAZON.COM.
David
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Trefor Heywood
I had a teacher at school who was in the British Army unit that helped to liberate Belsen.
I think I would rather take his word about what he found there than that of an American preacher who did not even visit Europe until many years later.
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WordWolf
I met and spoke with a man who was there.
I saw the number he was branded with when they imprisoned him.
He was not a Jew, but he never claimed the accounts were exaggerated, either.
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Ham
One of the problems is that the deniers claims are supposedly established using a methodology that has a VERY thin veneer of science.
"we stole the bricks.. we did the tests.. there was NO cyanide present"
To the uneducated, and unfortunately, some educated people, it can look convincing. Until closer examination of the evidence.
One jackasses "scientific" analysis was performed on fifty year old bricks- that were subjected to decades of eastern europe acid rain. Somehow, he was shocked to NOT find cyanide.
The guy that did the lab work did have a bachelors degree, in English.
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Trefor Heywood
One of the guys who claimed "official" experience and who promulgated this theory is the guy who calls himself an "execution engineer" - Fred Ward or Fred something anyway.
Come the think of it Fred Ward was in Tremors so it's Fred somebody else.
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Ham
Trefor, this is the guy I was talking about, and it wasn't the guy in tremors:
This is where its at...
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Trefor Heywood
Fred Leuchter! At least I got the Fred bit right!
:D-->
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railroader
To all our collegues. You might want to read "A soldier's life" on Gen Patton. It gives some rather detailed insight into the concentration camps that the US helped liberate. Something else to think about, these camps were originally designed for all those who made the mistake of opposing Hitler in the early years. I have friends who served in Europe during WW II.
Also, look for a novel by Leon Uris "Armageddon"
The early part of the book covering the end of WW II & the camps is all based on documentation provided by the US Army personnel whe were there.
They said the stories in the media over the years only scratched the surface of what it was really like.
-->
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Ham
As for myself, I bought the lie. I was fooled by the thin veneer of supposed "science", the arguing about numbers actually murdered, the rationalization.
It was very chilling indeed, to read what the "other side" had to say.
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Ham
A trip to the Holocaust Museum perhaps is a VERY good idea for younger folks- you have to explain away all kinds of stuff then..
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ex10
yeah, Ham, and even try visiting the Holocost Museum in Jerusalem, a place that any "Bible Lands Tour" sponsered by TWI didn't even acknowledge existed.
:)-->
A whole country exists today because of what happened during WWII and all the refugees leftover.
Duh.....
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Research Geek
When I was 12 years old, long before I got involved with twi, I was snooping in my father's photo lab/darkroom and I found some horrifying pictures. My father had a photo developing business before he started his TV show and apparently a soldier returning from WW2 asked him to develop some pictures which he had brought back from europe. I found out later that the army had decreed that all pictures taken at the death camps had to be turned over to them for evidence and that this solder had snuck them out.
They gave me nightmares - the bodies stacked like firewood, the expressions on the gaunt faces, the starved skin-and-bones bodies...
I knew damned well it happened. No one could tell me different.
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gladtobeout
Research Geek
That sounds like old films that I saw back in junior high school. The images still haunt me. These were old reals taken of death camps. They also took videos of officials visiting these places (some of which were women) and they were overwhelmed with sadness and grief. One woman fainted at the sight. I watched this in the seventh grade,1974, and I'll never forget it.
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diazbro
The sad reality is that many former way people still hold on to some of the more arcane teachings including the myth of the holocaust or the "Ancient Babylon Religion" book that I hear the author withdrew. Its frustrating when I encounter former Way people who talk like the only thing wrong with TWI was the fact that it feel apart at the top because of power struggles. They still feel like what was taught was right on and god breathed and all that jazz.
When I run into these types its like talking to a brick wall. Its not going to changethem and you will only get tired and frustrated trying to get them to reconsider way teachings such as the myth of the holocaust.
Then I realized that lots of these people had no real exposure to other churches or even formal education beyond high school (if that) so TWI was their primary source of not only religious instruction but "science" and "history". It became their school in effect so for them to throw all that off would be a lot of work on their part.
Its amazing how many "experts" on science, lnaguage, and history there are coming from TWI. They take what they leanred from VPW or LCM and speak it like its authoritative and laugh and mock people who have gone to real schools and actually put in the time and hard work to learn things. But as long as they romance their Way experience or deify VPW or look at like thorugh those Way colored glasses then they will never relent on their belief that things like the holocaust never happened.
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Belle
I remember hearing Corrie Ten Boom speak when I was in Jr. High School. She had pictures and told some of the most incredible stories.
I remember trying to reconcile what TWI taught about the Holocaust with the stories of Corrie Ten Boom, Anne Frank's Diary, my grandparent's visits to the concentration camps and all the other stuff. I couldn't do it, but it was one of those things I "held in abayance". I never disputed it either though.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
if you don't believe in the holocost, visit germany.
i did back in the 70's
go to dachau{sp}
see all the people walkin aroun missing arms and legs and with half faces.
it happened and i can't even begin to think why twi started this stupid falacy or why some of us believed them may they all rot in hell
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smurfette
I remember over twelve years ago hearing about staff people who were refusing to allow their kids to go to the Holocaust museum for some Wash DC trip the kids were going on. I have no idea if they got out of that part and what reasons they told the school
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Belle
Smurfette, I think TWI has forbidden their children to go or mandated that they not go to that part of the trip for years. I vaguely remember something about it as recently as a couple of years ago.
Think of how stupid the TWIt kids much seem to other people. Pity since many of them are smart.
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