Questions innies should ask themselves

[smurfette]

In the Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, several questions are presented in order to determine if one should stay in an abusive church or leave. They are:

1. Does grace really have a chance? (If leadership is grace-full--even with very legalistic "sheep"- grace has a chance. If however, there is a bottle neck of power-posturing leaders at the top, who are performance oriented, the chances of things changing are very slim.)

2. Are you supporting what you hate? (By staying and contributing your time, money and energy,are you helping something continue when, honestly in your heart, you disagree with it? We believe that if everyone who was doing this would stop, many vedry unhealthy and abusive origanizations would be unable to keep functioing.)

3.Do you need to be right? (If I am right, why do I have to leave? This thinking keeps people supporting a system they detest.)

4. Can you stay, and stay healthy, both at the same time? (this is one of most importnant questions to ask. Losing you spiritual, nnot to mention physical, emotional adn psychological health is not worth the cost. dont lose your integrity and become an emotional and spiritual mess.)

5. Can you decide your own limits and stick with them? (Set limits as to how much of yourself you are willing to invest without seeing healthy changes in the system. Then stick to your limit.

6. Do you believe God cares more about the church than you do? (We should not feel responsible to fix every problem we see. God cares about His church even more than you do. He can fix it without you.)

7. Is it possible the system might need to die?(Sometimes staying in a spiritual abusive system, instead of being helpful, simply props up its faade as a healthy non abusive system. Others may be thinking, "It cant be that bad, If it was that bad, peoplewould leave, right? Leaving does not kill a dead system, is just makes it look dead as it is.)

8. Are you trying to help the system even though you are exhausted? (If so, you are no longer resting in God. Find a place where it is absolutely fine for you to simply rest and receive for a while. In a spiritually abusive system, permission to rest will never be granted.)

9. Are you able to listen to the voice of sanity? (Connect with others who have already left)

10. Do you really know where to sow? (Sow the truth where it can actually grow.

MOST IMPORTANT!

If you came today for the first time, knowing what you now know about the system, would you stay?

If the answer is no, then why are you continuing to stay?

All of the above are quoted from chapter 20 of book mentioned above

[shazdancer]

A nice list for any relationship, smurfette, organizational or personal.

Regards,

Shaz

[Ham]

quote:

God cares about His church even more than you do. He can fix it without you.

A lot of innies would consider that losing self-esteem. What purpose would they have in life without der vey? What would they do?

Talk about FEAR..

Maybe the "less nobler" efforts in life have a little more merit than some have thought..

[Ham]

quote:

Is it possible the system might need to die?

Absolutely..

I think that's what I finally saw. People jumping under the coming steamroller, in the hopes of ressurecting its former "glory".. or delaying the inevitable.

The last fifty bucks I handed over to that joint, I almost visibly saw it like gold, just being ****** away.. I saw that the bas*ard's didn't even CARE. No "thanks", nothing good gonna ever come out of it..

[Belle]

I love that book, Smurfette! It was so healing and so grounding to me. Mostly because, I think my answer to #4 was a resounding NO!!!

quote:

4. Can you stay, and stay healthy, both at the same time? (this is one of most important questions to ask. Losing you spiritual, not to mention physical, emotional and psychological health is not worth the cost. dont lose your integrity and become an emotional and spiritual mess.)

I became a mess in every sense of the word. Looking back I was having stress attacks as far back as the first year I was married. I think they were mini panic-attacks because I couldn't catch my breath and had trouble with tightness in my chest. Dottie Moneyhands said it was stress-related, but didn't offer any help or suggestions on what to do about it. My ex had me do some breathing exercises from a book he got while in residence. Stupid me, I didn't want to admit I was unhappy and stressed, so I put up with it for years until it got so bad I couldn't ignore it.

[skyrider]

quote:

If you came today for the first time, knowing what you now know about the system, would you stay?

Would I stay? NO....a THOUSAND TIMES, no.

Even the staunch veepee supporters here at GS do NOT seem to support "the twi system" from its founder........ONLY the sweet-cookies from piffle.

There seems to be a HUGE disconnect between piffle and the practical application that flowed throughout twi's system of manipulation.

[Belle]

Absolutely Skyrider! And those good, nice, kind hearted people that did keep many around wouldn't have stayed either and they surely wouldn't have brought anyone into that pack of wolves.

[smurfette]

Just trying to bring to the top to get more discussion. Maybe the title should be changed.

[Belle]

Good reading for our new posters. :)

[TrustAndObey]

Just trying to bring to the top to get more discussion. Maybe the title should be changed.

What's there to discuss, it stunk then, it stinks now, it will stink in the future. Get out, and have fellowship with God and those who are willing... Leave the rest of religion in the dumpster!

[waterbuffalo]

T&O, that could be a catchy tune...

[waterbuffalo]

Belle, thanks for excavating this excellent thread!

Smurfette,

Thanks for going to all the trouble to copy all of those excellent points into this forum. Wow! I wish I'd known about that book when I was in res--what an eyeopener. We were too busy defending ourselves from the media and all of the "evil churches out there" to even notice when this book was released. Yes, it's a helpful tool in excavating the soul, imo.

wb

Edited April 4, 2007 by waterbuffalo

[polar bear]

That was a great book.

The most important point to me was the fact that if you question the leadership on any point they go ballistic

[Through the Looking Glass]

That book really helped me to see things for what they are and get out. There were so many unspoken rules we all followed.

I would like to add another question to ask yourself. I asked myself this question and it's what really started opening my eyes up. Are you excited to witness and bring new people in? Do you proudly proclaim your involvement with TWI to co-workers and friends outside the Way? Or do you try to be vague about the 'bible study' or 'bible fellowship' you attend? Deep in your heart do you feel a sense of pride, or a sense of shame, at being associated with TWI? If it's not good enough to want to bring someone else into......Is really good enough for you to be there?