I think it's perfectly fine to discuss why someone doesn't like Harry Potter books, and I don't even think we needed a separate thread to do it. My only contention is that reading and enjoying Harry Potter does not make someone a less-vigilant Christian ignoring Biblical edicts while contributing to the dumbing down of society.
Raf I moved the thread after it became a sourse of derail on Steves thread as a courtesy to him after reflection.
Please see rule 2 above I'm sorry you insist on inserting your name for I. I spoke for myself and what I see as my responsibility. I did not speak for you or anyone else. If you insist on adding your name in place of the I then I suppose there is little I can do.
That is a very big part of it Bell...my kids and I are really enjoying talking about what we loved what we hated.....re reading and finding the clues to where she is going to take this story....each of us finding passages to back up our personal favorite theories....Geeze connecting with your kids...whatta concept!
Parents and kids reading and enjoying books together for hours/days at a time......lively enthusiastic discussions, catching the kids at 2 am with a flashlight sneaking in a few more pages under their covers.....kids under 12 enthusiastically reading books of 800 pages plus....the t.v. off for weeks.....THIS is considered *dumming* down in America? Well, all I can say is...gimmee more!
TWI with all of it`s scripture and vigillance, oh so spiritually pure mindset.....destroyed tens of thousands of lives.....
I haven`t seen any such claims made against RK Rowling....
Sometimes evil is much more subtle....appearing as that wich is wholesome.....that is why we were fooled....
Take a look at the fruit of both...who has caused the most harm?
Just last night I spoke to someone whose poster name you would recognize immediatly and they expressed the same sentiment to me they were tired of having their Christian views called into question at every turn from the hound pack. So they left,their choice but our loss. As for me I was not moved by their tactic in the Way nor am I here.
Marytrs for Jesus ... catchy.
Personally, I expect to hear a lot of "christian" discussion here at GSC. What I find disconcerting is the chance we others take when coming out as unbelievers in that reality. I'd like to see everyone on equal footing. The fact remains some of us do not hold the bible as "the Truth" and no longer use it as the rule book for life.
Now Harry Potter? Well, it too is another great work of fiction that contains great truths in it.
Please see rule 2 above I'm sorry you insist on inserting your name for I. I spoke for myself and what I see as my responsibility. I did not speak for you or anyone else. If you insist on adding your name in place of the I then I suppose there is little I can do.
I already explained my logic in disagreeing with yours. You can't say "I won't speak for you, but I won't drop my Biblical responsibility" without accusing those who disagree with you of dropping theirs.
Take a look at the fruit of both...who has caused the most harm?
Who caused the most harm is not a qualifier for the right or wrong of something. So if I kill 23 people and someone else kills 50 that makes me right because I caused less harm? Comparing something to something worse does not make it right.
Please see rule 2 above I'm sorry you insist on inserting your name for I. I spoke for myself and what I see as my responsibility. I did not speak for you or anyone else. If you insist on adding your name in place of the I then I suppose there is little I can do.
I already explained my logic in disagreeing with yours. You can't say "I won't speak for you, but I won't drop my Biblical responsibility."
Sure I can Raf because I am speaking for me not you my opinion. I can say I think ford cars are the best car. Now you might not agree but then I was not speaking for you.
The message dove, is that appearances are deceptive....twi using scripture did not make it a spiritually healthy place...rkrowling telling stories of wizards does not equal fellowshipping with darkness....
Those who find great value in her tales are not any less vigillant, or less spiritual, any less favored of God, or anticipating Jesus` return any less than YOU!
Bigotry and arrogance were traits that we aquired in twi.....it can blind one to benefits outside of their sphere of understanding.
So if I kill 23 people and someone else kills 50 that makes me right because I caused less harm? Comparing something to something worse does not make it right.
So now we're killing people?
WD, your logic is seriously flawed. You say that I'm trying to subtly manipulate you when all I did was ask a question? I think it's because you don't want to answer. It's really very straight forward and requires only a simple answer.
For your convenience here is the other question I'd like to hear your opinion on: What about Hanzel and Gretel? What about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, fables and other fairy tales? Are they all devilish and contributions to the dumbing down of society and increasing Satan's power?
The message dove, is that appearances are deceptive....twi using scripture did not make it a spiritually healthy place...rkrowling telling stories of wizards does not equal fellowshipping with darkness....
Those who find great value in her tales are not any less vigillant, or less spiritual, any less favored of God, or anticipating Jesus` return any less than YOU!
Bigotry and arrogance were traits that we aquired in twi.....it can blind one to benefits outside of their sphere of understanding.
I agree appearances are deceptive.... in the way and in her books both. but what you said was that her books were acceptable because in your opinion her books caused less damage.
And I still say % of dammage does not make something a acceptable choice.
For your convenience here is the other question I'd like to hear your opinion on: What about Hanzel and Gretel? What about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, fables and other fairy tales? Are they all devilish and contributions to the dumbing down of society and increasing Satan's power?
While that question has been raised, WhiteDove, I'd like to add another. Since it's
related, you can address it at the same time.
What do you consider entertainment for those under 18 which is
NOT "contributing to the dumbing-down of society
and increasing Satan's power?"
Is there any, or do you recommend a pure, intainted diet of Scripture only
interspersed with time spent in an unadorned white room in order to avoid
I think any harm that could possibly be attributed to the HP books would more correctly be attributed to parents not teaching and communicating with their children. HP doesn't harm people. People harm people. :)-->
Raf since writing is your profesion I will defer to you on this even though I do not understand your difference. I wonder if perhaps sometime you could enlighten me on how to express that point correctly in English. I am serious here.
Out of curiosity though, do you have a problem with the fairy tales that we were exposed to when we grew up?
Dragons, witches, monsters and magic, children have been reading and enjoying these tales long before rowling wrote her stories......
How is Harry Potter any more dangerous than Grimm`s fairy tales or hans christian anderson that children have been reading for generations.
Ok since everyone is waiting so patiently
It's hard to say yes or no to such a large block of work together but the quick answer is Yes I do! I do not believe that they promote Christian values. Then again I respect the fact that that was not their purpose which is fine. I just have no interest in them.
Now the long answer I've been working on between posts but you'll have to wait for it.
The point is dove, children have read these tales for generations, all containing magic, witches, dragons, fairies....and it has yet to be shown to lure children onto a path of darknes.
I read these stories as a child and did not seek to do magic, I watched bewitched and i dream of genie and never attempted to cast spells ....
I enjoyed the magic of star wars and the caracters in the hobbit as a teenager and was never ONCE tempted to seek Satan....
It will be the same for our children....
I think you run the risk of turning kiddoes off from God when you invoke a religion silly enough to be consumed with seeing darkness and evil that just simply isn`t there.
For your convenience here is the other question I'd like to hear your opinion on: What about Hanzel and Gretel? What about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, fables and other fairy tales? Are they all devilish and contributions to the dumbing down of society and increasing Satan's power?
While that question has been raised, WhiteDove, I'd like to add another. Since it's
related, you can address it at the same time.
What do you consider entertainment for those under 18 which is
NOT "contributing to the dumbing-down of society
and increasing Satan's power?"
Is there any, or do you recommend a pure, intainted diet of Scripture only
interspersed with time spent in an unadorned white room in order to avoid
the near occasion of sin?
As you can see I am a little backed up here so the quick answer sorry:
There are thousands of fine books out there on many subjects I would call neutral subjects(my word as in not Christian or otherwise) Books about Cars, Animals current events and so forth. Books that don't promote what the Bible refers to as doctrines of devils nor give a wink as in ok to the exploration of such. That said it is not so much the book itself but the path it takes you down if that is your interest Hey go for it I would support your right to have those books available also. But also I have a right to speak an opinion as to their origin or purpose.
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Raf I moved the thread after it became a sourse of derail on Steves thread as a courtesy to him after reflection.
Please see rule 2 above I'm sorry you insist on inserting your name for I. I spoke for myself and what I see as my responsibility. I did not speak for you or anyone else. If you insist on adding your name in place of the I then I suppose there is little I can do.
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WhiteDove
Oldies
I think you got the point, I would not either.
Just because something teaches kids how to read does not mean that it is healthy for them to do so nor does it lend support for the value of the work.
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WhiteDove
Me too Shellon I just pray that we make healthy choices until they can make them themselves with wisdom.
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rascal
That is a very big part of it Bell...my kids and I are really enjoying talking about what we loved what we hated.....re reading and finding the clues to where she is going to take this story....each of us finding passages to back up our personal favorite theories....Geeze connecting with your kids...whatta concept!
Parents and kids reading and enjoying books together for hours/days at a time......lively enthusiastic discussions, catching the kids at 2 am with a flashlight sneaking in a few more pages under their covers.....kids under 12 enthusiastically reading books of 800 pages plus....the t.v. off for weeks.....THIS is considered *dumming* down in America? Well, all I can say is...gimmee more!
TWI with all of it`s scripture and vigillance, oh so spiritually pure mindset.....destroyed tens of thousands of lives.....
I haven`t seen any such claims made against RK Rowling....
Sometimes evil is much more subtle....appearing as that wich is wholesome.....that is why we were fooled....
Take a look at the fruit of both...who has caused the most harm?
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karmicdebt
Marytrs for Jesus ... catchy.
Personally, I expect to hear a lot of "christian" discussion here at GSC. What I find disconcerting is the chance we others take when coming out as unbelievers in that reality. I'd like to see everyone on equal footing. The fact remains some of us do not hold the bible as "the Truth" and no longer use it as the rule book for life.
Now Harry Potter? Well, it too is another great work of fiction that contains great truths in it.
Seekers will always find truth.
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Raf
I already explained my logic in disagreeing with yours. You can't say "I won't speak for you, but I won't drop my Biblical responsibility" without accusing those who disagree with you of dropping theirs.
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WhiteDove
Rascal Quote:
Take a look at the fruit of both...who has caused the most harm?
Who caused the most harm is not a qualifier for the right or wrong of something. So if I kill 23 people and someone else kills 50 that makes me right because I caused less harm? Comparing something to something worse does not make it right.
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WhiteDove
Sure I can Raf because I am speaking for me not you my opinion. I can say I think ford cars are the best car. Now you might not agree but then I was not speaking for you.
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Raf
It's not the same thing, Dove.
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rascal
The message dove, is that appearances are deceptive....twi using scripture did not make it a spiritually healthy place...rkrowling telling stories of wizards does not equal fellowshipping with darkness....
Those who find great value in her tales are not any less vigillant, or less spiritual, any less favored of God, or anticipating Jesus` return any less than YOU!
Bigotry and arrogance were traits that we aquired in twi.....it can blind one to benefits outside of their sphere of understanding.
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WhiteDove
Ok Raf we will disagree. I was only trying to convey that I felt I have a responsibility for me to do.
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Belle
So now we're killing people?
WD, your logic is seriously flawed. You say that I'm trying to subtly manipulate you when all I did was ask a question? I think it's because you don't want to answer. It's really very straight forward and requires only a simple answer.
For your convenience here is the other question I'd like to hear your opinion on: What about Hanzel and Gretel? What about Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Cinderella, fables and other fairy tales? Are they all devilish and contributions to the dumbing down of society and increasing Satan's power?
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Raf
Cool beans.
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Belle
Does this mean the purpose of posting your opinion was that you feel a duty to warn us?
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Raf
I didn't get that impression.
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WhiteDove
I agree appearances are deceptive.... in the way and in her books both. but what you said was that her books were acceptable because in your opinion her books caused less damage.
And I still say % of dammage does not make something a acceptable choice.
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WordWolf
While that question has been raised, WhiteDove, I'd like to add another. Since it's
related, you can address it at the same time.
What do you consider entertainment for those under 18 which is
NOT "contributing to the dumbing-down of society
and increasing Satan's power?"
Is there any, or do you recommend a pure, intainted diet of Scripture only
interspersed with time spent in an unadorned white room in order to avoid
the near occasion of sin?
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Belle
Okay. That's why I asked.
I think any harm that could possibly be attributed to the HP books would more correctly be attributed to parents not teaching and communicating with their children. HP doesn't harm people. People harm people.
:)-->
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WhiteDove
Nope! Only because I had an opinion on the subject and wanted to speak here for myself because I thought I could do so.
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Belle
Okay. Thanks, WD.
:)-->
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WhiteDove
Raf since writing is your profesion I will defer to you on this even though I do not understand your difference. I wonder if perhaps sometime you could enlighten me on how to express that point correctly in English. I am serious here.
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WhiteDove
Rascal:
Quote:
Out of curiosity though, do you have a problem with the fairy tales that we were exposed to when we grew up?
Dragons, witches, monsters and magic, children have been reading and enjoying these tales long before rowling wrote her stories......
How is Harry Potter any more dangerous than Grimm`s fairy tales or hans christian anderson that children have been reading for generations.
Ok since everyone is waiting so patiently
It's hard to say yes or no to such a large block of work together but the quick answer is Yes I do! I do not believe that they promote Christian values. Then again I respect the fact that that was not their purpose which is fine. I just have no interest in them.
Now the long answer I've been working on between posts but you'll have to wait for it.
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rascal
The point is dove, children have read these tales for generations, all containing magic, witches, dragons, fairies....and it has yet to be shown to lure children onto a path of darknes.
I read these stories as a child and did not seek to do magic, I watched bewitched and i dream of genie and never attempted to cast spells ....
I enjoyed the magic of star wars and the caracters in the hobbit as a teenager and was never ONCE tempted to seek Satan....
It will be the same for our children....
I think you run the risk of turning kiddoes off from God when you invoke a religion silly enough to be consumed with seeing darkness and evil that just simply isn`t there.
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WhiteDove
As you can see I am a little backed up here so the quick answer sorry:
There are thousands of fine books out there on many subjects I would call neutral subjects(my word as in not Christian or otherwise) Books about Cars, Animals current events and so forth. Books that don't promote what the Bible refers to as doctrines of devils nor give a wink as in ok to the exploration of such. That said it is not so much the book itself but the path it takes you down if that is your interest Hey go for it I would support your right to have those books available also. But also I have a right to speak an opinion as to their origin or purpose.
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