"the Way:Living in Wonderland"

[Ham]

quote:

Several in that class had great ability-Bernita Jess who teaches our Aramaic class

Interesting how they put "historical figures" out to pasture..

[Ham]

quote:

Jim Chamberlin

Never heard anything about this character. Anybody know what happened?

[A la prochaine]

quote:

"She taught me the great respect and love I have for the

human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love

the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was

put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and

taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the

human body-where the life was located."

If 'Calling him everynight' wasn't enough..then she visited him every weekend ... wowza

That's quite the committed individual to Wierwille. What kind of life did she have?

Man oh man...I can hardly handle reading this stuff...I'm almost ready to hurl chunks. -->

I'm so embarrased I even endorsed this book at one time in my life --> What dillusion was I under?

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by A la prochaine:

quote:

"She taught me the great respect and love I have for the human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the human body-where the life was located."

If 'Calling him every night' wasn't enough..then she visited him every weekend ... wowza

That's quite the committed individual to Wierwille. What kind of life did she have?

Actually, I have a followup question for you....

Take a woman this obsessed with vpw-

called EVERY night, visited town EVERY weekend-

add that she "rid him of his hang-ups" about the human body,

and I ask you,

WHAT happened between them when doors were shut?

[A la prochaine]

quote:

So that's what we did. At lunchtime Stiles came in with his wife and the pianist. I just

remember thinking to myself,

'There aren't going to be any women around when I get the holy spirit.'

I was just watching and waiting. Lunch was kind of light talk- we talked about Oral

Roberts, the Holy Spirit, lots of stuff. When we were done, I picked up the check'Honey, I'm going with VP.' She said something'Honey, I'm going with VP.' She said something, and

then Stiles turned to his wife and said,

'Honey, I'm going with VP.' She said something

to him like, 'How long will you be?' And he said,

'That's none of your business.'

That was it, and my opinion of him as a man went up 99 percent.

His stature increased in my eyes. just from the way he handled her."

SAY NO MORE!!!

I picked up the check...

talk about 'all about me' issues!!! -->

[A la prochaine]

WW,

Yes, I wanted state that very thing you asked...but thought maybe I should let readers make their own conclusions.

I find it very 'strange' that she stayed at the 'Y'. If she was such a dear friend,then why did she not stay with VP at his home??? Perhaps they wanted 'privacy'?

Feeling sicker by the minute... (insert smiley face that is the colour of green and looks like it's about to puke right about here ---> )

[WordWolf]

pg-227.

quote:

"Back in 1961, I had a vision of doing the 'Power for

Abundant Living' Class on 16mm sound-color film. So I began working

my mind, everytime I taught that class, on producing the film.

In about 1963, I tried once to raise the money, but it blew. People

just didn't share my vision. So I took another route. Around that

time we had a TV program in Lima called 'The Teacher'. We did

black and white video tape. I loved working on camera. It's hard

work, but I loved it. However, the films were of very poor quality.

We couldn't really use them again.

A couple of years later Dave Anderson came on the scene and asked to

see those films. I was embarassed, but I let him use them. He found

them fantastic attention-getters. They could really communicate.

Film is a great media, involving two of your sensesm and Dave saw

that potential. He and Bob Wierwille saw the vision. They raised

part of the money and really spread the vision of the film.

That was only the beginning though. The making of that film took

the greatest amount of discipline and renewed mind for two months

before we went into the studio and for the time we were shooting."

[A la prochaine]

quote:

I loved working on camera

YIKES!!!

I can just hear the next part coming up ... the part about his eyes getting burnt from the lights...he was such the 'sacrificial lamb'!! -->

WW...Stoooooooooooop! I must get some sleep!!!

You're killing me!!

[WordWolf]

Well since I'm posting them now, I recommend the sleep so

I can post them in SUCCESSION....

[WordWolf]

pg-228.

quote:

"The actual filming took twelve days. But there are no

words in my vocabulary to describe it. We filmed in 28-minute

segments, and everytime before I walked out on camera, I had almost

completely memorized what I would do in that time-the charts,

the scriptures, everything.

We did as much as three and a half to four hours of filming in one

day. The first day, the lights burned both my eyes. They were too

bright. I looked right into 8000 watts all the time. By 2am after

the first day's shooting, I couldn't get them open. They were

swollen shut. We talked to Dr Collier Powell and he told Dotsie

that we'd better stop or I'd be blind for the rest of my life.

The second day, I went back, and we put in a whole day. But the

third day, I couldn't go, couldn't open my eyes. The next day, the

camera man changed the lighting so it wasn't so bright, and I went

back on. We still did those 28-minute segments, but between sessions

Dotsie would put ice cubes on my eyes, and Donna would read the next

session to me. Then in ten to thirty minutes I'd be ready and I'd

go on again.

Every hour I was totally soaked from the heat which went as high as

95 degrees. The air conditioning system couldn't run during

filming. It's like every other thing I do- Satan fights like crazy.

But you make up your mind: God's the majority and that's it."

[A la prochaine]

ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!

I'm shutting up now...:o-->

[WordWolf]

pg-229.

quote:

"When we finished for the day, I'd walk off that set, put on

an old shirt, go in the camper and lie down with more ice cubes on

my eyes. Then all night I'd have ice cubes too. At 8am I'd get up.

At 8:30am Emma Schroer, the make-up lady, came in and by 10:30

we'd leave for Dayton. We took our own camper and cars and our own

food. We had to have everything absolutely ready for those twelve

days. The charts alone took over 200 man-hours. The last few days

of filming some people stayed up all night, night after night,

getting those charts ready to go for the next day."

Then he spent a paragraph detailing who had done what. Considering

his usual proclivities, I'm surprised he did.

pg-230.

quote:

"That film plus research in the holy spirit field are

the greatest blessing to anybody who wants to know the Word of God

and the power in His Word. They just lay it out to you. The work's

been done-the research and putting it into a shape that communicates

it-we've just got to reach the people with it now.

That film really made possible the tremendous growth of the ministry.

With it we could start many classes separately. I could go out, and

the film could go out. I didn't have to be there, and that's when

the blossoming really began."

The film was made fall of 1967.

He was making plans to visit the fellowship in San Jose, when he

makes another ashcan discovery.

quote:

"The day before I left to go out there, I saw an article in

Christian Life magazine. The truth is I never read Christian Life. I used to get it, look over the titles and

pictures and throw it into the wastebasket. But that particular

time, I was led to look through that magazine, and I saw in it an

article about a group of young hippie Christians doing missionary

work in Haight-Ashbury. I read it, and Father said, 'Put it in your

briefcase.'"

pg-231, he arrives in San Jose, and tells them he wants to go to

Haight-Ashbury. From there he goes to "the Living Room", a

Christian house in Haight-Ashbury. There he meets Ted Wise, who

invites him to Novato to the House of Acts...

[WordWolf]

I almost missed this, but it illustrates his frame of mind nicely.

pg-231. At the House of Acts with Ted...

quote:

"I went with him. We got there. The women were in the

kitchen: Sandi Heefner, Judy Doop and Ted's wife. It was interesting

because they were mixing up stuff-a big green salad in a bowl,

bread, doing a whole trip.

I don't know how many we had around the table- maybe 16 -and then the

men came home, Steve Heefner and Jimmy Doop. They had just spent

the day witnessing in Haight-Ashbury.

We all had supper together.

The women cleaned the table and all the men yakked.

And finally we got around to the Word. The discussion centered around the Holy Spirit. "

p-232.

quote:

"They'd been reading the book of Acts, and I asked

them if they wanted

me to teach them the Holy Spirit.

They were hungry, but skeptical.

It was 2am by the time I finished teaching from the book of Acts.

Then they all got into a circle, and I started to lead them into

speaking in tongues. None of them had spoken in tongues.

The most interesting thing was how they all fought over the Word-

Steve and Ted and Jim.

They'd argue.

I'd let them, then I'd give then the Word. Then they'd argue some

more, then I'd go on to another verse.

He said he liked how they were candid and upfront-

if they didn't like you, they told you, if they did like you, they

told you that.

However, this is an amazing quote.

quote:

"And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see,

they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each

other and that I liked. They were always affectionate. I saw a lot

that I liked there."

We'll be discussing THIS later....

pg-233 vpw tells the Board of Trustees about the group, and they

offer to bring them onsite for a Summer School.

quote:

"We said we'd pay, and they'd be on a work scholarship.

They all copped out except Steve and Sandi and their son, Stevie.

I liked them all. I thought they were wonderful-free and honest. But

I saw their congestion, their lack of knowledge, lack of grounding

in the Word; and I knew that their communal living could not

survive."

I especially LOVE LOVE LOVE to compare this next quote with a

young person called vpw...

quote:

"He was like lots of the young people today. He didn't know

how to work. But I knew you had to have discipline, self-discipline,

to really work that Word and learn. If you can't work in a field

or dig a ditch for a day, what kind of discipline would you have

working the Word of God?"

[WordWolf]

pg-234, we see Donnie Fugit arrive in summer 1969, speak to

someone in Wichita who was from Rye, NY-which led to the

beachhead in Rye.

In 1968 (yes, he jumped back a year...)

quote:

Then Johnny Townsend, another young man who had the class

in the army, came here that summer in 1969. He stayed here two

years.

Like so many of these young people,

he'd rather read than work.

He learned the Word, and he learned to work and study here.

He'd spoil this, spoil that, and then he'd learn. Now he heads

the state of Kansas, and he is the spiritual coordinator of

the Western Region."

I don't know what the army teaches people about working, but I

get the impression that they work pretty hard there, even in

peacetime. vpw seems to disagree-at least at this moment.

pg-235.

quote:

"If someone comes into the ministry, we don't drop them,

we stick with them.

We never kick anyone out.

They kick themselves out, if they want to go. But they're

always welcome back."

Those of you PERSONALLY kicked out by vpw himself, this is a

perfect time to remind us.....

Ooo, pot, meet kettle.....

quote:

"Sometimes people leave. And you wonder why you ever teach

anybody-people you've poured your whole soul into. They hear

something,

then they want to go it alone.

It's still just mainly an ego trip for them because it's how they

look to other men that counts to them. They are not standing

back in utter amazement of God's Word come hell or high water.

When that happens it just tears my heart out.

But I have that Word so deep in my soul that if nobody else

believes it, I would still stand."

Regular Mother Teresa of Calcutta he was.

Except, you know, for the "helping people" part.

Then he decided to set up a leadership program.

quote:

"We started the first Way Corps then, the fall of 1969,

especially for that purpose, to prepare leaders, There were

nine of them-some married, some single, younger and older.

They stayed until the spring,

and then I gave them the privilege of leaving.

You see, they never got it together among themselves. They

didn't have that commitment, that discipline."

pg-236.

quote:

"They just kept fighting among themselves. But

you know what? They're all standing today, all but one, and

she'll be back. She'll get tired of messing around after a

while. And she'll be back because

there's nowhere else to go

after you have seen the greatness of the Word.

He also says the new improved program is a 2-year program.

[WordWolf]

Amazing what vpw "allows" to happen.

pg-237, we hear

quote:

"The Ambassadors is a similar program to develop leaders,

faithful men, people with committment right out on the field.

It's like Jesus said, 'The harvest truly is plenteous, but the

labourers are few.' Well,

we're allowing real labourers to develop. It's beautiful."

Now comes the AD portion of tonight's show.

quote:

"God said He'd teach me His Word like it hadn't been known

since the first century if I would teach it to others. And that's

how I think: How can we teach it to others, make it live?"

Doctor shakes his head, his face cast in seriousness.

"Yes, the day God made me this promise was the greatest day in my

life, that day and the day I received the holy spirit because

they were both centers of reference for my learning truth and

error. You have to have a center of reference outside of yourself

to learn. And no matter who you talk to, you always learn.

Those two encounters with Him are as real to me today as my

talking with you right now."

pg-239.

quote:

"But you get tired. The other night I was so tired

I couldn't even find the books of the Bible. When you work so

hard, everyone loves you; but when you get right down to it, it's

you and God to handle that Word, and you have to make it live

with the renewed mind. That's what's really important. And other

of life's tinsel just doesn't count against the greatness of the

Word of God.

This is the greatest loving ministry in the world-and the most

lonesome walk. I suppose it's like being an athlete. In football,

there are eleven, in basketball, five; but when you teach, it's

just you and Daddy.

Lots of people love you for the Word you teach, but when it comes

right down to it, it's just you. You stand and you walk. You

teach what they can take. And sometimes you know a whole lot more.

Things you could open your heart on, you never do, to those depths

of perception. You go so far. You know the abundance available and

the Father says, 'That's all folks! End of show.' And it's

something you cannot describe to people. Just you and Father know.

Man, I can't hear the sounds of the violin music over the earth

shaking there...

[Ham]

quote:

Things you could open your heart on, you never do, to those depths

of perception. You go so far. You know the abundance available and

the Father says, 'That's all folks! End of show.' And it's

something you cannot describe to people. Just you and Father know.

"cannot" describe.. good grief. He seems to stop short of claiming he went to the "third heaven and earth" like John and Paul.. sees "undescribable" glory or something.

[WordWolf]

But I can bet money that I know of at least one person who thinks that's EXACTLY what

he said, meant and did.

Which, IMHO, was exactly the reason he made the vague, inflated claim...

[Ham]

Yep. Like he WAS a John, or a Paul..

sure left a lot to the imagination.

I remember a couple of people claiming how great vic was, because he did indeed "see it".

The claim didn't exactly square with his self-confessed lack of knowledge about the book of Revelation and the end times..

[Ham]

quote:

I looked right into 8000 watts all the time.

Really? Was that the state of the art at that time? 8000 watts.. lessee. That's a BANK of EIGHTY one-hundred watt bulbs. I wonder how valid this claim is.

I know the old film formats required a higher light level than modern equipment, but was this the norm?

[Ham]

More questions than answers here, I guess..

[GeorgeStGeorge]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Hammeroni:

quote:

I looked right into 8000 watts all the time.

Really? Was that the state of the art at that time? 8000 watts.. lessee. That's a BANK of EIGHTY one-hundred watt bulbs. I wonder how valid this claim is.

I know the old film formats required a higher light level than modern equipment, but was this the norm?

I don't know... My dad used to take home movies at Christmas, and he had to set up these big klieg lights. I think we needed to put ice cubes on our eyes after the filming was done. We WERE the only kids in Chicago with tans in January!! :D-->

George

[WordWolf]

Ok, this should be the very last excerpt post.....

*wild cheering from the stands*

pg-240.

quote:

Along the slender black-top road and across the bridge in the

distance, a dozen figures clothed in navy sweatsuits are running towards us.

Doctor slows the car down, laughing and smiling. "That's my Corps," he says

affectionately. "They're my kids."

pg-251, Dr spencer from West Virginia is speaking.

quote:

"...We learned in medical school that a fear of death is a symptom of

cardiac condition...."

Me, I'd like to know where he went to school, and who taught that.

I know medicine has not so completely advanced since, say, med school in the

50s or 60s that they taught that fear of death is a symptom of a bad heart.

That belongs more to the "bleed him with leeches" era-or at least the

Freud "everything is scientific" era, in the 19th century.

Fear of death is a symptom of having brushed death-either thru personal

experience or thru the death or near-death of a loved one. I don't even have

to go to medical school to learn that. (I'll just stick with my Doctorate

of Theology, thankyouverymuch. ;)--> )

Now, this educated MD talks about witnessing, and he talks about how he used to

be a "hunter" of men-describing how people ambush a deer with both barrels from

a concealed positions (which would make him a SNIPER of men, but I digress.)

He then says

quote:

"But I've been seeing more and more what the Word says:

You've got to be a fisher of men, like Peter. Every fish is different. You put

out the bait, and it's different for different fish. You put it out, and our

bait is the best. You dangle it here, tease it a little, get the hunger up.

Then when you get a fish on the line, you pull it in. Some you play with.

Some get away from you, but they keep coming back, and you just gotta keep the

bait there all the time."

Interesting analogy.

AND COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT.

Peter was not a hook-and-line fisherman, Peter was a NET fisherman.

"I will let down the net."

The analogy is completely different. A net fisherman casts the net out broadly

over the area, then he draws the net out of the water, and whatever is in the net

is in the net. Jesus wanted THAT kind of guy, not a line fisherman,

AND NOT A HUNTER OR SNIPER.

When the sower went forth to sow, he sowed everywhere, and some grew and

flourished. He did not study out the area, and bury one seed HERE and one seed

THERE. Dr S completely misunderstood Peter's job AND the lesson it teaches us.

Then again, even that early, twi was beginning to practice early hints of

elitism.....

=======

Now then,

in the middle of the book is a set of pictures. Most are pretty typical.

There's a shot of the traditional birthday dunk-in-the-river

"God's blessings on you-SPLASH!", and there's a photo of vpw on the film set

of pfal. You can recognize the set, you can recognize the suit, there's the

sign saying "power for abundant living" on the desk. vpw's not actively

filming in this shot. There's a person in the foreground getting ready to cue

the cameraman to begin his countdown-you can see him ready to start the count.

vpw is holding up a Bible and looking forward. I don't remember him holding up

a Bible at the start of any segment. Plus, he's holding it a little close to

comfortably read from. It looks like he's holding it up for the photo snapshot.

I also note the light levels. Despite the stage lights, he knows someone is

getting ready so snap a picture, and they're standing next to the cameraman.

He can see the cue-guy. So, he's looking towards lights that aren't blinding.

STAGE lighting blinds you to anything in its direction. If he was using the

lighting at STAGE level-which is not as bright as he claimed the lights were

during filming-then the entire crew could have slipped away with the camera,

and, if they were silent, he'd be waiting for the signal to begin. You can see

NOTHING at that light level. (Yes, I've been on stage, and seen the audience

vanish as I stepped into the light.)

Furthermore, the man giving the cue, and the cameraman, can be seen in

silhouette, since they're seen blocking the light to the "studio".

If the light really WAS at blinding level, we'd be able to see the pattern of the

guys' shirts, and their facial features.

The next shot, in fact, shows how tight the formation was.....

it shows the side with the cameraman.....but there's no bank of BLINDING LIGHTS

lined up in a row like STAGE LIGHTS. Are they all stacked up in the one

non-visible corner, out of sight? If so, that's a STUPID place to put ALL the

lights. You'd put them CENTRAL in some way. So, unless someone's wheeling in

a foldaway LIGHTHOUSE BEACON, the lights were NOT nearly as bright as he claimed.

I'm also curious just how lousy this film material supposedly was. The old, old

black-and-white turn-of-the century films filmed outdoors to use sunlight.

According to vpw, the stage had lights far in excess of that.

Car headlights are 18,000 candlepower. They are bright enough to make that

studio REALLY bright-brighter than in the photo. Yet, they are not PAINFUL to

have shined at you. Am I the only one skeptical of this story?

Perhaps he got sore eyes from the filming. I could buy that. But "lose my sight"

bright? And he was STUPID ENOUGH to film 2-3 more days when Day One swelled his

eyes SHUT and the Dr said he'd be blinded for LIFE?

Was he that stupid, or does he think WE are?

(No, that was not a rhetorical question.)

=============

This ends the posts documenting the contents.

Let the full-blown analysis begin!!!!!

"Let joy be unconfined.

Let there be dancing in the streets,

drinking in the saloons,

and necking in the parlor."

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeStGeorge:

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Hammeroni:

quote:

I looked right into 8000 watts all the time.

Really? Was that the state of the art at that time? 8000 watts.. lessee. That's a BANK of EIGHTY one-hundred watt bulbs. I wonder how valid this claim is.

I know the old film formats required a higher light level than modern equipment, but was this the norm?

I don't know... My dad used to take home movies at Christmas, and he had to set up these big klieg lights. I think we needed to put ice cubes on our eyes after the filming was done. We WERE the only kids in Chicago with tans in January!! :D-->

George

No pun intended, but please ENLIGHTEN us-I'd like to hear more.

At least tell me the configuration of klieg lights.

Do they stack vertically in a narrow column?

[WordWolf]

Who'd like to take the first shot at our first post, seen here?

quote:

page 29, we get our first description of "the class".

quote:

"It's called Power for Abundant Living," Tim continues.

"It's the class that changed my life. It's a foundational class,

giving you the keys to understanding God's Word. Thirty-three hours

of straight teaching, but they do it over three weeks here, so you

go four evenings a week, for three hours each time. It's fantastic

because when you've had it, you'll be able to understand what God

wants us to know. I was looking for God everywhere and missing Him

everywhere, 'til I took that class. Nowhere else can you get this

knowledge of how to read and understand God's Word. And the thing

you just can't deny about it is that it works. Apply the principles

and you get the results in your life."

[Brother Speed]

oooh, awesome ad

where's the disclaimer 'individual results may vary?'