Just a quick aside, it's hard for me to seriously believe that a lot of famous authors MEANT all of this imagery and personification that the academics sit around and comment on. Unless the author says that he/she had this in mind, I tend to believe that they just sat down and wrote a good story meant to be enjoyed for itself and not with hidden meanings.
But, I think it is fun to sit around and come up with our own interpretations and analogies/parallels in our world, too, such as what we're doing. But, for an "expert" to say that the author meant this or that, I believe is just a way either for the "expert" to sound important (mental masturbation) or simply projection on their part.
Anyhoo, just my opinion on that and I'm sure there are many who would disagree with me.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
of becoming your own person of finding yourself, of going through the "teen" years... no matter what age.
In the end it is to be home again in your comfortable bed with those who have always loved you by your side wondering if your ok?? Dorothy tells about her journey to find her way back home (herself) and states" he and she and you where there all along but you couldnt have been, could you???? to me it the story of seperation and coming home to yourself. it is a masterpiece.
for me it is a rich story about how difficult growing up can be..
and many found that path while in the way Ministry .
It is better to grow up than to age.
we like to think we are all brave pioneers going roads never before seen with risk and dare . YET those who had the most influence in our life those we trusted and loved growing up were really always with us on the inside helping us chose what path to take to find our own self.
Home is where we long and love for and it is always and always will be about what is inside our own self.
I would argue that it doesn't matter what the author "meant" when he wrote his story. Whether conscious or not on the author's part, his work is an illustration of a particular worldview that is worth examining.
By the way, when you say that a "good story is meant to be enjoyed for itself," you're saying that the appeal of a story is on a primal, emotional, intuitive level, where it should stay. But beyond that purely emotional response is a set of assumptions about life. How we construct meaning from a text has a lot to say about how we perceive reality. If it's on a purely emotional level, with no other awareness than whether it pleases or disgusts you, without knowing why, you may run the risk of drawing conclusions that are disordered, ill-informed, illogical, and possibly downright harmful. Every time any of us interacts with a text, a transaction is taking place. And there are some very slimy salesmen out there who are pitching a worldview through their "art" which on examination may not reflect your values at all.
I understand what you're saying about "expert's sounding important" and "projection." Instead of dismissing the entire field of literary criticism, though, I would suggest becoming a critic yourself. For instance, ask yourself if you like the main character. If so, why? If not, why not? What kind of a person is she? What does she believe about life? Who are the minor characters, and why are they there? What is the significance of the setting? The images? The historical context? From there you'll be able to answer questions like: What is the basis for morality? The meaning of history? The purpose of existence? What is beauty, truth, goodness? How do these larger issues play out in a text? The fact that the writer has already elicited an emotional response from you, be it positive or negative, means you've already made some conclusions about the text. Examine those reactions.
I wish I knew this stuff the first time I picked up the Blue Book.
[This message was edited by laleo on January 28, 2004 at 20:12.]
Good to hear from you, George. Somehow that "humid, cricket filled evening" doesn't sound very appealing. Hope you're enjoying yourself, despite the sad circumstances of your travels.
Hey, I'm glad I was able to offer a little validation. I think you made the right choice, whatever it was!
But I'm disappointed. I was hoping you would weigh in on Plotinus' thread and offer your insight into Auden. Now there's a poet's brain you can pick.
Laleo,
Thanks, you did indeed validate my choice, and that means a lot to me because I am going back to school soon and English was one thing I was considering for a Master's program.
As far as picking anyone's brain, I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. Actually, I really ENJOY sitting around and talking about literature and listening to what everyone says that they got out of it. Also, if a lot of people got a lot of different things out of one piece, that just means (to me) that it is even more of a masterpiece.
My only point is that when some scholars say that they are the authority about what an author meant, I say, "no way." Only the author knew what he meant to say and if he doesn't make that clear in an interview or something, then what all the "experts" are saying about it is just their opinion, which they are entitled to, but I don't think they are entitled to say that their opinion is necessarily what the author meant.
Hope that cleared things up. I really wasn't trying to derail or anything because I love to discuss literature.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
Thanks for the clarification. Your other post did seem just a little abrupt, so I appreciate the explanation.
Regarding your second paragraph: Me, too. And I agree.
Regarding the scholars, I don't think too many scholars are doing that, unless they're staying true to the PFAL teachings, despite what they learned in grad school.
What I meant about picking Auden's brain is that he strikes me as the sort of poet that deciphering his intent would be a challenge in itself, probably even more so than what a particular reader might get out of it for himself. But I won't belabor the point since you've already decided on another major. Which is . . . ?
Also, you didn't derail at all. Your comments are welcome. Thanks for adding your thoughts.
Recommended Posts
George Aar
The biggest parallel,
We had the power to "go home" with us all the time, only the spin from Oz's inhabitants kept us in limbo...
(spending a humid, cricket-filled evening in Sihanoukville)
geo.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Laleo,
Just a quick aside, it's hard for me to seriously believe that a lot of famous authors MEANT all of this imagery and personification that the academics sit around and comment on. Unless the author says that he/she had this in mind, I tend to believe that they just sat down and wrote a good story meant to be enjoyed for itself and not with hidden meanings.
But, I think it is fun to sit around and come up with our own interpretations and analogies/parallels in our world, too, such as what we're doing. But, for an "expert" to say that the author meant this or that, I believe is just a way either for the "expert" to sound important (mental masturbation) or simply projection on their part.
Anyhoo, just my opinion on that and I'm sure there are many who would disagree with me.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
Link to comment
Share on other sites
mj412
the Wizard of OZ is a story of growing up to me.
of becoming your own person of finding yourself, of going through the "teen" years... no matter what age.
In the end it is to be home again in your comfortable bed with those who have always loved you by your side wondering if your ok?? Dorothy tells about her journey to find her way back home (herself) and states" he and she and you where there all along but you couldnt have been, could you???? to me it the story of seperation and coming home to yourself. it is a masterpiece.
for me it is a rich story about how difficult growing up can be..
and many found that path while in the way Ministry .
It is better to grow up than to age.
we like to think we are all brave pioneers going roads never before seen with risk and dare . YET those who had the most influence in our life those we trusted and loved growing up were really always with us on the inside helping us chose what path to take to find our own self.
Home is where we long and love for and it is always and always will be about what is inside our own self.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
laleo
waterbuffalo:
I disagree.
I would argue that it doesn't matter what the author "meant" when he wrote his story. Whether conscious or not on the author's part, his work is an illustration of a particular worldview that is worth examining.
By the way, when you say that a "good story is meant to be enjoyed for itself," you're saying that the appeal of a story is on a primal, emotional, intuitive level, where it should stay. But beyond that purely emotional response is a set of assumptions about life. How we construct meaning from a text has a lot to say about how we perceive reality. If it's on a purely emotional level, with no other awareness than whether it pleases or disgusts you, without knowing why, you may run the risk of drawing conclusions that are disordered, ill-informed, illogical, and possibly downright harmful. Every time any of us interacts with a text, a transaction is taking place. And there are some very slimy salesmen out there who are pitching a worldview through their "art" which on examination may not reflect your values at all.
I understand what you're saying about "expert's sounding important" and "projection." Instead of dismissing the entire field of literary criticism, though, I would suggest becoming a critic yourself. For instance, ask yourself if you like the main character. If so, why? If not, why not? What kind of a person is she? What does she believe about life? Who are the minor characters, and why are they there? What is the significance of the setting? The images? The historical context? From there you'll be able to answer questions like: What is the basis for morality? The meaning of history? The purpose of existence? What is beauty, truth, goodness? How do these larger issues play out in a text? The fact that the writer has already elicited an emotional response from you, be it positive or negative, means you've already made some conclusions about the text. Examine those reactions.
I wish I knew this stuff the first time I picked up the Blue Book.
[This message was edited by laleo on January 28, 2004 at 20:12.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
laleo
Hey, QQ. Glad you stopped in.
Good to hear from you, George. Somehow that "humid, cricket filled evening" doesn't sound very appealing. Hope you're enjoying yourself, despite the sad circumstances of your travels.
I enjoyed your post, mj412.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Laleo,
Agree to disagree.
You just reminded me why I didn't get my degree in English. LOL!
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Now I`ll NEVER get that song outta my head...
OmG Hope....TOO funny ...you have a gift!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
laleo
Hey, I'm glad I was able to offer a little validation. I think you made the right choice, whatever it was!
But I'm disappointed. I was hoping you would weigh in on Plotinus' thread and offer your insight into Auden. Now there's a poet's brain you can pick.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i cried my eyes out for that little toto
?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Hey, I'm glad I was able to offer a little validation. I think you made the right choice, whatever it was!
But I'm disappointed. I was hoping you would weigh in on Plotinus' thread and offer your insight into Auden. Now there's a poet's brain you can pick.
Laleo,
Thanks, you did indeed validate my choice, and that means a lot to me because I am going back to school soon and English was one thing I was considering for a Master's program.
As far as picking anyone's brain, I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. Actually, I really ENJOY sitting around and talking about literature and listening to what everyone says that they got out of it. Also, if a lot of people got a lot of different things out of one piece, that just means (to me) that it is even more of a masterpiece.
My only point is that when some scholars say that they are the authority about what an author meant, I say, "no way." Only the author knew what he meant to say and if he doesn't make that clear in an interview or something, then what all the "experts" are saying about it is just their opinion, which they are entitled to, but I don't think they are entitled to say that their opinion is necessarily what the author meant.
Hope that cleared things up. I really wasn't trying to derail or anything because I love to discuss literature.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
Link to comment
Share on other sites
laleo
waterbuffalo,
Thanks for the clarification. Your other post did seem just a little abrupt, so I appreciate the explanation.
Regarding your second paragraph: Me, too. And I agree.
Regarding the scholars, I don't think too many scholars are doing that, unless they're staying true to the PFAL teachings, despite what they learned in grad school.
What I meant about picking Auden's brain is that he strikes me as the sort of poet that deciphering his intent would be a challenge in itself, probably even more so than what a particular reader might get out of it for himself. But I won't belabor the point since you've already decided on another major. Which is . . . ?
Also, you didn't derail at all. Your comments are welcome. Thanks for adding your thoughts.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Digger
Top ten things I Should have Learned from Oz Before attending twig
10. Claim ignorance, even if it was YOUR house that killed the bitch
9. Don't go down a road just because a bunch of little freaks are tellings you to
8. Just because someone is giving directions doesn't mean that he knows THE WAY
7. Don't ever let anyone tell you you're not smarter than you think - you don't need no stinkeen certificate to prove it
6. You have the courage inside you all along
5. Don't let someone scare you into doing anything you don't feel confortable with, even if SHE does have a bunch of flying monkeys
4. Take time to stop and smell the roses, and take a little nap too if you feel like it
3. If you go knocking on strage people's doors, don't be surprised when someone bites your head off
2. The dog was the only one truely loyal
and the Number one thing I should have learned:
1. JUST BECAUSE HE SAYS HE'S ALL GREAT AND POWERFUL, DOESN'T MEAN HE'S NOT A FRAUD!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waterbuffalo
Laleo, I sent you a private message.
Digger, TOO FUNNY!!!!!
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.