As I was driving to the service, it suddenly occurred to me, "What will I do if XYZ is there, or ABC or even LCM?" I thought it through and decided that if any of my so called "enemies" decided to come, that it would have been a very courageous thing for them to do and would probably indicate their humility and desire to make peace. I even spoke to a few people at the service about this.
A few months ago, I had started the thread "Are you ready for forgiveness", and got really smoked by a few. But I understand that it healed a number of people and that made it worth it. On Saturday, I was ready to do what Romans 12 says: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him drink", and thereby warm him with love. I met a lot of people that I loved and respected who had been separated from me. They weren't "enemies" or "competitors" but brothers in Christ.
What a great opportunity it was for people to come together again after being separated. After some of the memories with Mrs. Wierwille were related, I thought to myself, that if she were in the situation where "enemies" had come, she certainly would have asked herself, "What does the Word say?" and then she would have carried it out.
I think that in almost every situation, there are optimum times that people can try to make peace. I think that in memory of Mrs. Wierwille, now is one of those times. I sat there at the memorial and was ready to do what the Word says and still am. Perhaps some of you think the same. Perhaps we can take some steps toward peace...
I met a lot of people that I loved and respected who had been separated from me. They weren't "enemies" or "competitors" but brothers in Christ.
I liked how you put this. It made me think about how so many people whom in TWI we considered friends, close friends, brothers in Christ. Yes, they were not our enemies/competitors, but often TWI was the thing that drove the wedge between people ~ not the people themselves.
Thanks for helping me put things in perspective.
Gladtobeout,
Do not feel you need to apologize...as Oakspear said...You saw what you saw.
I think it was a beautiful gesture for people to have attended Mrs. W's funeral and share in that moment of grief with her family.
We all grow because of the things we decide to do in our lives ~ and I'm sure LCM grew from this as well. Yes there are those whom are angry at him and rightfully so...perhaps this is a stepping stone of healing for LCM.
As Research Geek said...he (himself) had to work some things in his head before arriving...and today, I believe he is a better person for going to that service.
Well, I'm sorry if my post inflamed things... it was my gut reaction. Sometimes I do that.
To respond to some of the comments:
No, I wouldn't be talking about him if he had not showed up. But I suppose others might have. Yes, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. But none of us put him in that place... he did it to himself and I therefore don't feel guilty over it.
You are right...I have no way of knowing craig's heart of hearts. I can only hope he's a changed man and that he's sorry for what he's done. I simply haven't seen any evidence to make me think that. None.
But... Mrs. W probably would have appreciated him being there. And that would have been the most important thing on that day. And if he was there, apparently he kept as low a profile as possible, since many did not see him. Good for him.
Yes, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. But none of us put him in that place... he did it to himself and I therefore don't feel guilty over it.
________________________________________________
Agreed...a little public humiliation or exclusion from activities is but a pittance for him to have to pay....
________________________________________________
Then Hiway said....
You are right...I have no way of knowing craig's heart of hearts. I can only hope he's a changed man and that he's sorry for what he's done. I simply haven't seen any evidence to make me think that. None.
_______________________________________________
Agreed again....maybe if he had the guts to apologise, we could consider that maybe he has repented and changed and might even consider accepting his apology and offering our forgiveness....untill then we don`t owe this guy squat.
I am very glad that everybody showed restraint and behaved with class. I think that it is a testimonial to Mrs. W and the people who cared for her.
Let's put this puppy to rest.I just heard from the man who was in charge of security and I asked him I hear Craig was there He informed me that he was not there.
Well that's it then, I just KNEW that s.o.b. wouldn't show up. :D-->
One thing that I've seen in death, having buried both of my parents, is that when it comes right down to it - - nothing else matters at the funeral. When other things try, and sometimes do, rear up their ugly head, those with eyes to see & ears to hear, see & hear how truly UGLY the ugliness is and just how much it really doesn't matter. No, not right NOW.
A funeral, in my opinion and experience, gives the living, the loved ones left behind a chance to transcend our daily rat race as humans and focus on what is truly important. We can show for just a little while - that we are worthy to be "more than the angels" and made in the image of God. For just a little while we can put on the brakes on everything and focus ONLY on the great and good things we have in this life and the ONLY thing we really have - - each other, in its greatest form - FAMILY.
The irretrievable loss of the loved one we've gathered for on that today proves how temporary and fragile "we" are. We pain, we mourn, we remember, then we laugh, we cry over the good, the great. What we should see at the time of remembrance of a loved one is whatever it is that binds us, not what separates us. I'm happy , as it seems that was the case at Dorothea Kipp Wierwille's funeral.
Not really trying to keep the "did Craig show up?" plate spinning.... but I, as one of the sorta "old-timers" feel obligated to have come. As far as old timers go, I'm not even that old of an old timer. The feeling of obligation comes from what I call "a feeling of we." - At one time we at HQ were family and Mrs. was THE "mother." I lived it for a little while and I feel obligated to have been there when that family was the central thing.
I'm sure Ted's position on it was, "I wouldn't have missed it for the world."
I believe Craig would feel the same "family" obligation to have come to the funeral. Had he come, it would have been in that spirit - - family. Personally, I think it would have been GREAT if he did come, because on that day at that time...
nothing else mattered .
Hate Craig if you should, God knows Craig gave many people the right to do so. Nonetheless, from where I'm sitting, it is VERY possible that he DIDN'T show BECAUSE of what might have happened to take focus from Mrs., family, etc. by his presence. SO. It would have been a classy move had he shown up, in respect of "family" and also a classy move NOT to show up, in respect of "family."
I'm not an LCM fan either... but life is about growth, isn't it?
A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset.
I could be wrong but our entire table plus others saw what we thought was him and his voice sounded like his. This person looked like him although a little heavier since I last saw him. He sat in back and kept a low profile.
Glad 2 -- That is good enough for me. It may (or not) have been him, but really -- it doesn't matter.
That the service went on without a hitch is what counts, not who was (or was not) there. :)-->
A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset.
ROTFLMAO
Research Geek resembles that remark!
:D--> Heeheeheeheehee!!!!!
But mistaken for Craig? LOLOLOL
Craig is...
--a little taller.
--probably in better physical shape since he is a personal trainer.
--though balding, would NOT have wildly unkempt hair...
Geek is...
--cuddlier
--more approachable
--would NOT be wearing Bruno Mali shoes and Armani suits...
Hey Chatty I said I was movin did not mean you all needed to call a movin' van
Catcup if Geek looks like LCM then Wayne looks like Elvis.
One comment made made to me by J.Sommerville was Ted when you said Mom asked you (Mrs W.)if you were stil singing you sure she did not ask.Ted sre you stil sinin" hahaha Told John well that would be right on both counts.hahaha
A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset.
______________________________________________
Um, I'm trying not to laugh, but I wasn't there Friday night... I'm with Ted, if I look like LCM, maybe Elvis WAS there... I mean, if the idea wasn't so funny, that person risked offending BOTH lcm and me... I think lcm in all his health club glory would be offended if someone mistaked me for him. And if I was of a different temperament, I might be offended if someone mistaked him for me. And about the wildly unkempt hair comment - I left my mad professor look at home Saturday and came with more like my Clark Kent hairdo, missing the top portion of course, and white instead of black, but if they mistook me for lcm, maybe I could pass for Clark kent anyway ;-)
A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset.
______________________________________________
Um, I'm trying not to laugh, but I wasn't there Friday night... I'm with Ted, if I look like LCM, maybe Elvis WAS there... I mean, if the idea wasn't so funny, that person risked offending BOTH lcm and me... I think lcm in all his health club glory would be offended if someone mistaked me for him. And if I was of a different temperament, I might be offended if someone mistaked him for me. And about the wildly unkempt hair comment - I left my mad professor look at home Saturday and came with more like my Clark Kent hairdo, missing the top portion of course, and white instead of black, but if they mistook me for lcm, maybe I could pass for Clark kent anyway ;-)
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Research Geek
As I was driving to the service, it suddenly occurred to me, "What will I do if XYZ is there, or ABC or even LCM?" I thought it through and decided that if any of my so called "enemies" decided to come, that it would have been a very courageous thing for them to do and would probably indicate their humility and desire to make peace. I even spoke to a few people at the service about this.
A few months ago, I had started the thread "Are you ready for forgiveness", and got really smoked by a few. But I understand that it healed a number of people and that made it worth it. On Saturday, I was ready to do what Romans 12 says: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him, if he is thirsty, give him drink", and thereby warm him with love. I met a lot of people that I loved and respected who had been separated from me. They weren't "enemies" or "competitors" but brothers in Christ.
What a great opportunity it was for people to come together again after being separated. After some of the memories with Mrs. Wierwille were related, I thought to myself, that if she were in the situation where "enemies" had come, she certainly would have asked herself, "What does the Word say?" and then she would have carried it out.
I think that in almost every situation, there are optimum times that people can try to make peace. I think that in memory of Mrs. Wierwille, now is one of those times. I sat there at the memorial and was ready to do what the Word says and still am. Perhaps some of you think the same. Perhaps we can take some steps toward peace...
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rascal
Glad that respect was shown at the service. To have confronted anyone, no matter how deserving would have been apropriate.
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A la prochaine
Reasearch Geek,
I liked how you put this. It made me think about how so many people whom in TWI we considered friends, close friends, brothers in Christ. Yes, they were not our enemies/competitors, but often TWI was the thing that drove the wedge between people ~ not the people themselves.
Thanks for helping me put things in perspective.
Gladtobeout,
Do not feel you need to apologize...as Oakspear said...You saw what you saw.
I think it was a beautiful gesture for people to have attended Mrs. W's funeral and share in that moment of grief with her family.
We all grow because of the things we decide to do in our lives ~ and I'm sure LCM grew from this as well. Yes there are those whom are angry at him and rightfully so...perhaps this is a stepping stone of healing for LCM.
As Research Geek said...he (himself) had to work some things in his head before arriving...and today, I believe he is a better person for going to that service.
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TheHighWay
Well, I'm sorry if my post inflamed things... it was my gut reaction. Sometimes I do that.
To respond to some of the comments:
No, I wouldn't be talking about him if he had not showed up. But I suppose others might have. Yes, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. But none of us put him in that place... he did it to himself and I therefore don't feel guilty over it.
You are right...I have no way of knowing craig's heart of hearts. I can only hope he's a changed man and that he's sorry for what he's done. I simply haven't seen any evidence to make me think that. None.
But... Mrs. W probably would have appreciated him being there. And that would have been the most important thing on that day. And if he was there, apparently he kept as low a profile as possible, since many did not see him. Good for him.
Consider the subject dropped.
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rascal
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oldiesman
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HCW
I'm saddened that I missed the funeral.
One thing that I've seen in death, having buried both of my parents, is that when it comes right down to it - - nothing else matters at the funeral. When other things try, and sometimes do, rear up their ugly head, those with eyes to see & ears to hear, see & hear how truly UGLY the ugliness is and just how much it really doesn't matter. No, not right NOW.
A funeral, in my opinion and experience, gives the living, the loved ones left behind a chance to transcend our daily rat race as humans and focus on what is truly important. We can show for just a little while - that we are worthy to be "more than the angels" and made in the image of God. For just a little while we can put on the brakes on everything and focus ONLY on the great and good things we have in this life and the ONLY thing we really have - - each other, in its greatest form - FAMILY.
The irretrievable loss of the loved one we've gathered for on that today proves how temporary and fragile "we" are. We pain, we mourn, we remember, then we laugh, we cry over the good, the great. What we should see at the time of remembrance of a loved one is whatever it is that binds us, not what separates us. I'm happy , as it seems that was the case at Dorothea Kipp Wierwille's funeral.
Not really trying to keep the "did Craig show up?" plate spinning.... but I, as one of the sorta "old-timers" feel obligated to have come. As far as old timers go, I'm not even that old of an old timer. The feeling of obligation comes from what I call "a feeling of we." - At one time we at HQ were family and Mrs. was THE "mother." I lived it for a little while and I feel obligated to have been there when that family was the central thing.
I'm sure Ted's position on it was, "I wouldn't have missed it for the world."
I believe Craig would feel the same "family" obligation to have come to the funeral. Had he come, it would have been in that spirit - - family. Personally, I think it would have been GREAT if he did come, because on that day at that time...
nothing else mattered .
Hate Craig if you should, God knows Craig gave many people the right to do so. Nonetheless, from where I'm sitting, it is VERY possible that he DIDN'T show BECAUSE of what might have happened to take focus from Mrs., family, etc. by his presence. SO. It would have been a classy move had he shown up, in respect of "family" and also a classy move NOT to show up, in respect of "family."
I'm not an LCM fan either... but life is about growth, isn't it?
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notinKansasanymore
Good one, HCW.
Good one, Research Geek.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset.
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Oakspear
I was being sarcastic...implying that if Ted said to move on, we should all fall in line...because he is Ted
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dmiller
Glad 2 -- That is good enough for me. It may (or not) have been him, but really -- it doesn't matter.
That the service went on without a hitch is what counts, not who was (or was not) there.
:)-->
David
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dmiller
Research Geek -- you have a way of putting feelings, observations, etc., into words that make sense. Thanks!
:)-->
David
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ChattyKathy
Okay I think.
:D--> Is that a safe answer? 
:D-->
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Catcup
ROTFLMAO
Research Geek resembles that remark!
But mistaken for Craig? LOLOLOL
Craig is...
--a little taller.
--probably in better physical shape since he is a personal trainer.
--though balding, would NOT have wildly unkempt hair...
Geek is...
--cuddlier
--more approachable
--would NOT be wearing Bruno Mali shoes and Armani suits...
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ChattyKathy
hahahahahahahahahahaha
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TED Ferrell
Hey Chatty I said I was movin did not mean you all needed to call a movin' van
Catcup if Geek looks like LCM then Wayne looks like Elvis.
One comment made made to me by J.Sommerville was Ted when you said Mom asked you (Mrs W.)if you were stil singing you sure she did not ask.Ted sre you stil sinin" hahaha Told John well that would be right on both counts.hahaha
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ChattyKathy
Ahh Ted, you better not be going no where ya here me!
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Research Geek
__________________________________________
A couple of corrections: I meant Mary and John Sommerville. Second, I was told that the person we are talking about is not Craig, but a member of CFF who has a goatee and wild unkeept, thin hair with a pudgy face. John Paul spoke to this person privately Friday night outside the funeral home and did not seem upset.
______________________________________________
Um, I'm trying not to laugh, but I wasn't there Friday night... I'm with Ted, if I look like LCM, maybe Elvis WAS there... I mean, if the idea wasn't so funny, that person risked offending BOTH lcm and me... I think lcm in all his health club glory would be offended if someone mistaked me for him. And if I was of a different temperament, I might be offended if someone mistaked him for me. And about the wildly unkempt hair comment - I left my mad professor look at home Saturday and came with more like my Clark Kent hairdo, missing the top portion of course, and white instead of black, but if they mistook me for lcm, maybe I could pass for Clark kent anyway ;-)
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Radar OReilly
Just an observation......
The last known sighting of lcm....made by anyone I have spoken with personally.....
Lcm was bald as a bowling ball and was sporting the shaved head look. I was not able to confirm whether or not he had a pierced ear.
ror
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Nottawayfer
TED Ferrell, could you see your PTs please.
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learning
So, were the bigwigs in attendance? RFR (Fox) French fry guy etc? (JED) Or was this more of a family thing? Was it run through or by TWI?
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ChattyKathy
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
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Ham
Ted, now I'm "all shook up".
:)-->
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Dana R
It might hae been Doug McMullen. He is a big guy with receeding , thinning hair... and he was there.
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