this is a newbie position for me. I wasnt involved w/TWI during the fog years, didnt even know what the fog was till 2000 when I reached GSC....what are you talkin about here?..or should I move on? again,again,again.......is this attack on people who left during POP...please excuse my dumbness.maybe dumb is better. ;)
Frank--I took adv cl at rome city--are you talking about the same class when CM pulled out his shot gun?
NO ONE BECOMES A FAILURE UNTIL THEY BLAME SOMEONE ELSE.
Back in 1979 at the Live Advanced Class -- I had a moment with Dr. VPW. I was a little upset that he was a SMOKER -- and told him - his smoking was an obsticle of concern to me, as I thought a Man of God ought to better care for his 'temple'. I saw at my young age too many family deaths from 'cancer' because of tobacco. Dr assured me that it didn't matter what he did to himself -- By Christ Stripes he is Healed Already -- and that Jesus paid the sacrifice for our 'everlasting life' and we were 'sanctified, justified, etc." (Ya'll must know the drill) Anyway, I told him I just needed to remind him that he is harming his body.
Later when I was already out of TWI -- I heard he 'fell asleep'. I knew then as well as I know now, VPW was not murdered -- His LIFESTYLE caused his early death. He gambled with his life, and he has NO ONE TO BLAME BUT HIMSELF!! His treatment of others as well as his lavish lifestyle (and he made good money off all us abs'ers). Those things drove VPW to an early grave. If anyone believes anything else, its pure FOOLISHNESS in my opinion.....
All our actions bring forth consequences (positive or negative). You risk getting cancer if you smoke, you also risk giving cancer to others if you smoke. (thats one of those worldy pleasures that effect someone other than the smoker).
I have a difficult time believing Howard Allen would pass blame on anyone including himself for VPW's death. Folks knew he was battling illnesses such as the eye cancer and more. VPW did not tell everyone - everything. Those closest to him kept secrets for him...
I once respected VPW until that day on a balcony I asked him those questions. I lost a great deal of respect for him then.... I also didn't trust him 100% from the class when he made the claim that "God spoke audibly to him". For some reason I still don't believe that was truth. Perhaps because God's only begotten Son, Jesus had to 'doodle in the sand' to get revelation from God. God did speak to Moses through the burning bush. But I had my doubts about VPW's audible conversation with God.
I have long respected Billy Graham, and his life has been an awesome Testimony to God! Yet Dr. Graham has never made that claim, and yet Graham's lifes work has been a true testiment of God, the power of God as well.
Did anyone in the Way Corp ever get to really know VPW one on one? VPW ever come to your house to deliver anyone from demons, etc.? Did he heal the sick, clothe the naked, help build a poor person a home, feed the hungry? What did all our money go for? Did the WAY CORP leaders get salaries? Nice homes? Just wondering....
I felt too many people thought way too highly of VPW, he was just a man with a plan...
this is a newbie position for me. I wasnt involved w/TWI during the fog years, didnt even know what the fog was till 2000 when I reached GSC....what are you talkin about here?
Fog -- mist in the air, blinding and pervasive, kinda like God spitting in yer eye!
Several folks took *blame* for docvic's death, when confronted by the POP. I didn't then, nor do I now. After all -- he wasn't immortal. Docvic was a man, plain and simple. All men die sooner or later, yet most don't have the *luxury* of a POP paper declaring their greatness, and how they were stolen from mankind.
Because of POP docvic was made a martyr.
This is my (humble) imho about it, cause when docvic passed on, some folks were convinced that they were the cause of it (or at least they said so).
B (as in *B*) And S (as in *S*)
Docvic died because he was human, and it ain't my fault, your fault, the bod's fault, or anyone's fault that he kicked the bucket sooner than the 70 years God promised to man. He brought it on himself.
NO ONE BECOMES A FAILURE UNTIL THEY BLAME SOMEONE ELSE.
Back in 1979 at the Live Advanced Class -- I had a moment with Dr. VPW. I was a little upset that he was a SMOKER -- and told him - his smoking was an obstacle of concern to me, as I thought a Man of God ought to better care for his 'temple'. I saw at my young age too many family deaths from 'cancer' because of tobacco. Dr assured me that it didn't matter what he did to himself -- By Christ Stripes he is Healed Already -- and that Jesus paid the sacrifice for our 'everlasting life' and we were 'sanctified, justified, etc." (Ya'll must know the drill) Anyway, I told him I just needed to remind him that he is harming his body.
Later when I was already out of TWI -- I heard he 'fell asleep'. I knew then as well as I know now, VPW was not murdered -- His LIFESTYLE caused his early death. He gambled with his life, and he has NO ONE TO BLAME BUT HIMSELF!! His treatment of others as well as his lavish lifestyle (and he made good money off all us abs'ers). Those things drove VPW to an early grave. If anyone believes anything else, its pure FOOLISHNESS in my opinion.....
All our actions bring forth consequences (positive or negative). You risk getting cancer if you smoke, you also risk giving cancer to others if you smoke. (thats one of those worldy pleasures that effect someone other than the smoker).
I have a difficult time believing Howard Allen would pass blame on anyone including himself for VPW's death. Folks knew he was battling illnesses such as the eye cancer and more. VPW did not tell everyone - everything. Those closest to him kept secrets for him...
You left out "chronic alcohol drinking" along with the "chronic tobacco smoking".
vpw, when not at the biggest events, regularly had EITHER a cigar OR a cup
in his hand-and it wasn't plain COFFEE no matter what you thought.
He'd show up at morning meetings drinking.
He was addicted to tobacco and alcohol,
and years of feeding both addictions eroded his internal organs and their
ability to cleanse out his body.
With alcohol beating down the filtration systems,
when he got cancer from all the tobacco-a known carcinogen-
his body had nothing to use to fight with.
Small wonder he deteriorated fast.
The man was about as "clean living" as Jerry Garcia.
You left out "chronic alcohol drinking" along with the "chronic tobacco smoking".
vpw, when not at the biggest events, regularly had EITHER a cigar OR a cup
in his hand-and it wasn't plain COFFEE no matter what you thought.
He'd show up at morning meetings drinking.
He was addicted to tobacco and alcohol,
and years of feeding both addictions eroded his internal organs and their
ability to cleanse out his body.
With alcohol beating down the filtration systems,
when he got cancer from all the tobacco-a known carcinogen-
his body had nothing to use to fight with.
Small wonder he deteriorated fast.
The man was about as "clean living" as Jerry Garcia.
(Jerry made it to 53 and looked 73.)
I whole-heartedly AGREE with everything you said. I had no idea VPW was an alcoholic too. Gawd that is a double whammy!
My mother is now 73, barely breathing, STILL won't give up the carcinogens -- complains of the cost, and coughs all the time. But to hear her tell it, she always has a cold. Her doctor just told her about her diseases and told her to STOP SMOKING -- but she refuses to do it. At 73 she looks 93.
I stand by first Statement.. The Blame rests in the Person who defied the laws of 'Chance'., and refused to 'Change'. I think VPW fed his paranoia. I recall in 1979 - he was 'worried' about threats on his life.
Frank, I have taken 2 different CM Ad.Classes. I couldnt remember which one was with the SHOTGUN....!! haha!!im getting old. maybe,thats a good thing..memory is fading a little..maybe it will take away the bad stuff ive seen.
I didnt know people blamed themselves for Dr.'s death..how awful and so sad.
I didnt know people blamed themselves for Dr.'s death..how awful and so sad.
and thanks to the bus driver geer, many people thought they were also responsible for the downfall of the world, or the word of god hightailing it out of the united states, or for elvis's passing, or .....
Hey..I gotta go with Howard killing VP..afterall..VP did deliver him miraculously & its the only way to repay such a deed...wouldn't you agree?? "Kill him with kindness' was what I was taught..but with the INSANITY that reigns over in NW Ohio..Howard killing the guy would fit right into their mindset.
Cris Ge-r "might have killed him, as look at the "press" HE got once the Mogfart bit the dust!
Loy boy already HAD the position he desired...so his motive is lacking.
Maybe Colonel Mustard DiD do the deed..but in the BRC or Auditorium..with a LLamsa Bible or the point of the Horn of Plenty..
Guess we'll all find out at the gathering..LOLOLOL
The guy might well have turned into a pumpkin at midnight
if he spent 24 hours without alcohol or tobacco.
You know, that ties lots of stuff together. His violent abusive verbal attacks on people might have been triggered by a lack of a "strong drink". Likewise, his loving, forgiving demeaner enhanced with a stiff drink.
You know, that ties lots of stuff together. His violent abusive verbal attacks on people might have been triggered by a lack of a "strong drink". Likewise, his loving, forgiving demeaner enhanced with a stiff drink.
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frank123lol
HA said in 95 ac class for grads it was all of us as he burnt out his life for us :( :( :(
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GrouchoMarxJr
Burnt out his life for us?...
...It's more like...He lived fat off of our hard earned money and died from that nasty devil spirit "cancer"...
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Raven's Claw
I heard he was "tired of the fight" and quit believing. Never heard of the eye cancer or whatever cancer he had, until Waydale.
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excathedra
what a nice thread
i'm guessing it was me
it's no fun to @(%* an unconscious girl
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likeaneagle
this is a newbie position for me. I wasnt involved w/TWI during the fog years, didnt even know what the fog was till 2000 when I reached GSC....what are you talkin about here?..or should I move on? again,again,again.......is this attack on people who left during POP...please excuse my dumbness.maybe dumb is better. ;)
Frank--I took adv cl at rome city--are you talking about the same class when CM pulled out his shot gun?
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dmiller
Hmmmmmm ---
He lit the candle at both ends, and it burned fast.
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jetc57
NO ONE BECOMES A FAILURE UNTIL THEY BLAME SOMEONE ELSE.
Back in 1979 at the Live Advanced Class -- I had a moment with Dr. VPW. I was a little upset that he was a SMOKER -- and told him - his smoking was an obsticle of concern to me, as I thought a Man of God ought to better care for his 'temple'. I saw at my young age too many family deaths from 'cancer' because of tobacco. Dr assured me that it didn't matter what he did to himself -- By Christ Stripes he is Healed Already -- and that Jesus paid the sacrifice for our 'everlasting life' and we were 'sanctified, justified, etc." (Ya'll must know the drill) Anyway, I told him I just needed to remind him that he is harming his body.
Later when I was already out of TWI -- I heard he 'fell asleep'. I knew then as well as I know now, VPW was not murdered -- His LIFESTYLE caused his early death. He gambled with his life, and he has NO ONE TO BLAME BUT HIMSELF!! His treatment of others as well as his lavish lifestyle (and he made good money off all us abs'ers). Those things drove VPW to an early grave. If anyone believes anything else, its pure FOOLISHNESS in my opinion.....
All our actions bring forth consequences (positive or negative). You risk getting cancer if you smoke, you also risk giving cancer to others if you smoke. (thats one of those worldy pleasures that effect someone other than the smoker).
I have a difficult time believing Howard Allen would pass blame on anyone including himself for VPW's death. Folks knew he was battling illnesses such as the eye cancer and more. VPW did not tell everyone - everything. Those closest to him kept secrets for him...
I once respected VPW until that day on a balcony I asked him those questions. I lost a great deal of respect for him then.... I also didn't trust him 100% from the class when he made the claim that "God spoke audibly to him". For some reason I still don't believe that was truth. Perhaps because God's only begotten Son, Jesus had to 'doodle in the sand' to get revelation from God. God did speak to Moses through the burning bush. But I had my doubts about VPW's audible conversation with God.
I have long respected Billy Graham, and his life has been an awesome Testimony to God! Yet Dr. Graham has never made that claim, and yet Graham's lifes work has been a true testiment of God, the power of God as well.
Did anyone in the Way Corp ever get to really know VPW one on one? VPW ever come to your house to deliver anyone from demons, etc.? Did he heal the sick, clothe the naked, help build a poor person a home, feed the hungry? What did all our money go for? Did the WAY CORP leaders get salaries? Nice homes? Just wondering....
I felt too many people thought way too highly of VPW, he was just a man with a plan...
Edited by jetc57Link to comment
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dmiller
Fog -- mist in the air, blinding and pervasive, kinda like God spitting in yer eye!
Several folks took *blame* for docvic's death, when confronted by the POP. I didn't then, nor do I now. After all -- he wasn't immortal. Docvic was a man, plain and simple. All men die sooner or later, yet most don't have the *luxury* of a POP paper declaring their greatness, and how they were stolen from mankind.
Because of POP docvic was made a martyr.
This is my (humble) imho about it, cause when docvic passed on, some folks were convinced that they were the cause of it (or at least they said so).
B (as in *B*) And S (as in *S*)
Docvic died because he was human, and it ain't my fault, your fault, the bod's fault, or anyone's fault that he kicked the bucket sooner than the 70 years God promised to man. He brought it on himself.
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Oakspear
It was me...I killed him...I killed the all!
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WhiteDove
QUOTE: Did he clothe the naked?
I think it was the other way around Did he naked the clothed.
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WordWolf
You left out "chronic alcohol drinking" along with the "chronic tobacco smoking".
vpw, when not at the biggest events, regularly had EITHER a cigar OR a cup
in his hand-and it wasn't plain COFFEE no matter what you thought.
He'd show up at morning meetings drinking.
He was addicted to tobacco and alcohol,
and years of feeding both addictions eroded his internal organs and their
ability to cleanse out his body.
With alcohol beating down the filtration systems,
when he got cancer from all the tobacco-a known carcinogen-
his body had nothing to use to fight with.
Small wonder he deteriorated fast.
The man was about as "clean living" as Jerry Garcia.
(Jerry made it to 53 and looked 73.)
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frank123lol
Like an Eagle,Yes cm did indeed do the shot gun,So did john neiz@ in live action
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jetc57
I whole-heartedly AGREE with everything you said. I had no idea VPW was an alcoholic too. Gawd that is a double whammy!
My mother is now 73, barely breathing, STILL won't give up the carcinogens -- complains of the cost, and coughs all the time. But to hear her tell it, she always has a cold. Her doctor just told her about her diseases and told her to STOP SMOKING -- but she refuses to do it. At 73 she looks 93.
I stand by first Statement.. The Blame rests in the Person who defied the laws of 'Chance'., and refused to 'Change'. I think VPW fed his paranoia. I recall in 1979 - he was 'worried' about threats on his life.
The biggest threat to HIS life was HIMSELF.
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WordWolf
You didn't know?
There's Drambuie references all over threads about him! :)
One poster hosted him once,
and said he accidently left Scotch bottles in sight.
vpw studied them like he wanted to be offered some
(it was early morning.)
Someone said the reason he was always taking those
mints and breaking them in his mouth was to
hide the booze-smell.
He smoked Kool shorties.
People hosting him were given a 3-page list of
preparations. Kool shorties were supposed to be on hand.
The guy might well have turned into a pumpkin at midnight
if he spent 24 hours without alcohol or tobacco.
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oldiesman
Sounds like brainwashing to me. :lol:
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likeaneagle
thanks DM.
Frank, I have taken 2 different CM Ad.Classes. I couldnt remember which one was with the SHOTGUN....!! haha!!im getting old. maybe,thats a good thing..memory is fading a little..maybe it will take away the bad stuff ive seen.
I didnt know people blamed themselves for Dr.'s death..how awful and so sad.
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excathedra
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krys
Colonel Mustard in the Library with the candlestick.
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notinKansasanymore
Cause of death for VPW was melanoma of the liver.
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excathedra
is that from alcoholism ?
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WordWolf
If I were to conjecture,
I'd say his liver was badly weakened by alcoholism,
as was his immune system.
When he exposed his liver and other body parts
to a known cancer-causing agent over long
periods of time (chain-smoking),
his weak liver and weak immune system
were sitting ducks.
====
This "believe to stay alive stuff"
failed miserably because it's ERROR,
and the "he got tired of fighting"
was a non-answer used as a smoke-screen
for the truth-
"his vices killed him."
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Second James
Hey..I gotta go with Howard killing VP..afterall..VP did deliver him miraculously & its the only way to repay such a deed...wouldn't you agree?? "Kill him with kindness' was what I was taught..but with the INSANITY that reigns over in NW Ohio..Howard killing the guy would fit right into their mindset.
Cris Ge-r "might have killed him, as look at the "press" HE got once the Mogfart bit the dust!
Loy boy already HAD the position he desired...so his motive is lacking.
Maybe Colonel Mustard DiD do the deed..but in the BRC or Auditorium..with a LLamsa Bible or the point of the Horn of Plenty..
Guess we'll all find out at the gathering..LOLOLOL
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Jim
You know, that ties lots of stuff together. His violent abusive verbal attacks on people might have been triggered by a lack of a "strong drink". Likewise, his loving, forgiving demeaner enhanced with a stiff drink.
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WordWolf
*blink blink*
I believe you may have something there.
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