The Official, the Ultimate, the Amazing PFAL Thread

[Mike]

Raf,

I wondered the same thing. I'm sticking to my methods, though: assume the text God-breathed at the start and proceed from there to search how it fits.

*******

dmiller,

You wrote: “...did someone say the gloves were off??”

They’ve always been off for you and others who attack me. It’s ME that the restrictions have been taken off here. Usually I have to walk on eggshells, because if readers hit the squawk button over my proPFAL posts on other threads, then I hear from management. Here on THIS thread no one can complain on ME.

Sorry if this disappoints you.

***

You wrote: “...the film class means NOTHING, while the books are EVERYTHING?”

No. Who ever said it was nothing? I said it was introductory, but wrongly treated as ultimate.

Conversely, the books were often treated as mere souvenirs of the class by older grads, while the film class was thought of as ultimate.

***

You wrote: “The SAME DOCTRINE was taught in both.”

Not so.

I once started a project comparing the whole film class with the written versions of the same text passages, like I just did with the “abundance” issues for rhino. I never finished it. By the time I got to Session 3 it expanded to be too large a project to finish.

Plus, there were many written portions with little or no corresponding portions in the film.

When I pulled my “time travel” trick on posters here two years ago I demonstrated this, as well as grads’ lack of familiarity with the books RELATIVE TO their greater familiarity with the film. The “time travel” section in the film class is only few fleeting sentences, but is expanded into an entire chapter in WWAY titled “The Third Heaven.”

About 74 posters were debating with me in those months, and none of them could remember the fleeting sentences of "time travel" in the film class, even though they had pretty well mastered that soundtrack. The corresponding chapter in the book was far from all of their aging memories because they had spent much less time in the books.

In general, there’s much more detail in the books, and it’s much more accurate, AND it lends itself much greater to the idea of finding the hidden meanings God impregnated it with. The film class was never made available to us for such finds, while the books were.

***

You wrote: “The film was what was offered to prospective *inductees*, not the books.

The magazine was an *offshoot* production.”

Not so. The books were either given to new students or promoted to them in the class. The magazine was given to new students of the class, a one year’s subscription. The magazine was declared by Dr to be an intimate part of the class.

***

You wrote: “The films, the books, the way rags ALL promoted docvic and his teachings.”

Garbage!

They promoted to me the good God and His Son!

***

You wrote: “Docvic was promoting himself, what *ministry* he thought he had, and made a pile of dough (from folks like you and I) as a result.”

What did he do with the dough? He put it right back into the ministry.

You have a bad attitude towards a man who helped me, and many thousands like me, very much. If you want to communicate with me with any credibility you can’t deny this or spit on the GREAT benefit of PFAL like you just did.

***

You wrote: “Now you might look for *hidden words* in the way rag, but to me ----

it is a magazine, with some articles, nothing else.”

What’s important to me is that in the magazine we have Dr’s printed words, and he spent much more time on fine tuning his printed words than his spoken/recorded words.

Hey, if you think that a magazine is lesser than a book, I’m gonna challenge that all your KJV reading doesn’t count, because it’s ONLY a book, and the originals manuscripts were scrolls. How trivial! I tried to pin you down on your mag-o-phopia before and you dodged it. Printed is printed! Dr said it’s “book and magazine form” that his revelations took form in.

***

You wrote: “Docvic had a *machine* rocking and rolling, and he used all *available*

resources to keep that sucker bringing in the cash.”

So that as many people as possible could hear the Word. He used the population’s fetish with cash to keep a lot of creeps out of the ministry and I’m glad he did. He insisted that searchers put their money where their mouth was and that made the classes all the more successful. It filtered out many of the non-serious students.

He paid himself a salary of $100 per week and he worked longer hours than most people in the ministry. You attitude here stinks! Dr could have gone into business and made money that he could have spent time consuming, but he didn’t. He was always working and teaching. This I saw firsthand.

***

You wrote: “So he had a *last lost teaching*. Big deal. __ So what if it was on tape, and in print, and all us OLG's *missed* it???”

I explained “so what” before. It means we tuned him out and we can’t blame him for the doctrine not working. That we were sloppy students is the whole key to my making a big deal out of his last teaching being lost. We can’t say he blew it when it’s so obvious that WE blew it!

***

You wrote: “To me --- it one last desparate attempt by the MAN to continue a *ministry*

(as a legacy to himself), after he was gone. __ His *last lost teaching* (either in print, or on tape) was a feeble cry for recognition AND NOT THE COMMAND OF THE LORD!”

If you look closer, though, you’d see a pattern over a full decade of his attempting to pull us away from the rotten TVTs that had grown up in the ministry and get us back to the written accuracy of what he taught.

It’s when you open the books frequently that you'll see all this for yourself, how much more superior the written teaching is than the tattered remnants of the verbal teaching you retain in memory.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Mike

[alfakat]

blah blah blah...bla-bla-bla-bla blah blah, bla-bla blah blah, bla-blah BLAH/

wow, that was really interesting.....totally unlike the previous stuff from Mistahh Piffle...

if we substituted Joseph Smith fer vee pee wee, this rant would be near identical to Moron doctrine....

[Mike]

alfakat,

There was a time when you saw the benefit of PFAL and you devoted your life to it.

What I am saying is that your investment was NOT a waste and that you will reap good from what you sowed back then.

This should be GOOD news for you.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Mike

[dmiller]

He paid himself a salary of $100 per week and he worked longer hours than most people in the ministry.

You attitude here stinks!

Sorry if you don't like my *attitude*. :)

I don't know where you got the *pay-scale* for doc, so cite it if you can.

I can produce the pics of the death certificate for him, showing he died from what

he taught was a *devil spirit*. Meebe you can show us pics of his paycheck??

PLEASE -- also mention how he (personally) did NOT benefit from all the ABS.

Now -- how did he spend those *longer working hours*????

In his library, copying other men's works??

Out in the motorcoach seducing young women???

Standing on stage proclaiming himself the *Truely Enlightened One*?

Getting his pic on the cover of (damnnear) every Way rag??

Don't talk to me about my *attitude*.

You have your own to deal with.

Shucks -- meebe this thread will be shorter than I thought.

You haven't a leg to stand on, and we know it.

And you need to realize that,

Although you won't.

(sorry about the *attitude*)

Take a look at the beam in your own eye, before you criticize the splinter in another's.

<_<

Perhaps you have forgotten that I am one of the folks that will actually listen to you,

and consider what you say. You know I don't always agree,

but you've been civil in the past.

Methinks yer changing, given this attack on me.

Well --- have at it. I can take it, and as Modaustin said --- the gloves are off.

The claims you make about pfal are nonesense.

The fact that you laud PFAL over the bible is ludicrous.

And Jesus Christ teaching from pfal, when He returns??????

I just gotta wonder -- why isn't it docvic teaching pfal at the return?????

Oh wait ---- I get it!!

The Abscent Christ

Edited February 10, 2006 by dmiller

[ex10]

Raf,

Thanks for the "misogynistic." I was wondering if females would be allowed here. :blink: Guess not.

Mike can't seem to play nice when it comes to the fairer sex. So I thought I might as well ignore this thread now, instead of later. :)

Edited February 10, 2006 by ex10

[Mike]

Dmiller,

Please calm down.

When we get into the details that are written to us you will see light.

You seem to be in an unusually bitter mood tonight.

Where else are you going to go for some good news?

There are good things in PFAL for us to find. Let's look for them!

Ex 10,

I have no idea why Raf or you hold that kind of a grudge on me.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Mike

[ex10]

:blink: you can't be serious.

[dmiller]

Dmiller,

Please calm down.

I have no idea why Raf or you hold that kind of a grudge on me.

Mike ---- I am quite calm (right now).

Personally, I hold no grudge against you, BUT what you are propounding makes

no sense.

It's as simple as that.

(sigh) --- my IMHO.

Salud.

Edited February 10, 2006 by dmiller

[Mike]

Ex 10,

Yes, I am serious.

I have never been a misogynist, nor have I ever acted like one here.

**********

dmiller,

If you want to see the sense that I see in it you must think it through from my perspective. Try believing it temporarily, and think through the details.

Here's a start: if it were the case that PFAL were God-breathed, then think through all the strategies the adversary would be motivated to use to deflect attention from it. The adversary's top priority is to get us to doubt the integrity of God's Word. You got to be willing to slog past all the camouflage and subterfuge that is this website grist for the mill. All the stories that fascinate people here you got to find ways to suppress in your thinking as you think through PFAL’s God-breathedness.

You got to open the books a bunch to see it. You can't arm-chair it at your computer. Open the books!

Edited February 10, 2006 by Mike

[What The Hey]

Or whenever he started posting his idolatrous pigswill.

You would also be refering to that pigswill of work VPW supposedly plagarized from - heh?

[GarthP2000]

Interesting, Raf. I would hope so ---------------------------

(but I'm not holding my breath.)

Yeah! And Rush Limbaugh is gonna vote for Hillary in '08 too.

[dmiller]

Yeah! And Rush Limbaugh is gonna vote for Hillary in '08 too.

Bite yer tongue!!!!!!

[Mike]

What the Hey,

Good point.

People here poo poo PFAL.

People here poo poo Dr's learning from teachings of others and passing on to us.

People here praise the same teachings of others.

People here are confused!

Edited February 10, 2006 by Mike

[ex10]

Will somebody just please kick his butt now?

[Mike]

Ex 10,

WHAT are you talking about?

[dmiller]

People here poo poo Dr's learning from teachings of others and passing on to us.

I never did that, HOWEVER I DID *poo poo* his putting his name on their work. :)

(Big difference!)

[Mike]

dmiller,

You wrote: "I DID *poo poo* his putting his name on their work"

Please let me remind you of this:

(With my re-formatting and truncation

in re-presenting the following quotes)

First dmiller wrote:

Docvic (plain and simple) took from other's works,

and passed it off as his own.

Then oldiesman wrote:

dmiller,

sorry but I am going to have to disagree in part with you,

and I base my belief on the following:

“Lots of the stuff I teach is not original.

Putting it all together so that it fit -- that

was the original work. I learned wherever

I could, and then I worked that with the

Scriptures. What was right on with the

Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped.”

Victor Paul Wierwille,

1972 The Way Living In Love

Elena Whiteside page 209

The previous statement by VP disproves that he “passed it off as his own.”

In 1972 he said it wasn't original; ... if you don't believe he said that,

there it is, right before your eyes.

He deserves credit for not passing it off as his own,

but rather saying “lots of the stuff I teach is not original.”

If he was trying to hide something, and pass off all of this as his own,

he would not have made the previous statement, nor have other authors' books,

from whence he learned, selling in the Way Bookstore for all to read.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Mike

[ex10]

Mike

Here's what I'm talking about.

You are the worst advertisement for PFAL that there ever was. There are some folks here who value some of the stuff that was taught by VP in PFAL and its progeny. You know, classes, books, and such.

But you so twist and warp it, that even folks who want to take something good away from it, end up questioning whether they can do that or not. It's because of your haughty arrogance, and inability to engage in civil, halfway intellectual discourse.

You just can't seem to control yourself, which is a really bad example for those who want to do better by PFAL.

You really stink at getting your (twisted) message across.

That's what I mean. I am now putting you on "ignore" so don't bother answering me. I am done with this thread and you. Hey, I am marking and avoiding you.

Selah.

[Mike]

Ex 10,

My haughty attitude is manufactured to SOMETIMES match and even exceed the haughty attitudes with which I am faced.

It's a response to your friends' lack of decency towards me. You seem to tolerate such an attitude in them but not me.

I can have a very civil conversation with anyone here, but if they show me grief, I SOMETIMES show them I can match their attitude, and that it doesn't impress me nor scare me when they are so belligerent towards me.

If you want to discuss some aspect of PFAL with me I can be very civil. Try me. But if all you wan to is attack me, watch out, I may just hit you with your own medicine.

[dmiller]

dmiller,

You wrote: "I DID *poo poo* his putting his name on their work"

Please let me remind you of this:

(With my re-formatting and truncation

in re-presenting the following quotes)

First dmiller wrote:

“Docvic (plain and simple) took from other's works,

and passed it off as his own.”

Then oldiesman wrote:

dmiller,

sorry but I am going to have to disagree in part with you,

and I base my belief on the following:

“Lots of the stuff I teach is not original.

Putting it all together so that it fit -- that

was the original work. I learned wherever

I could, and then I worked that with the

Scriptures. What was right on with the

Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped.”

Victor Paul Wierwille,

1972 The Way Living In Love

Elena Whiteside page 209

The previous statement by VP disproves that he “passed it off as his own.”

In 1972 he said it wasn't original; ... if you don't believe he said that,

there it is, right before your eyes.

He deserves credit for not passing it off as his own,

but rather saying “lots of the stuff I teach is not original.”

If he was trying to hide something, and pass off all of this as his own,

he would not have made the previous statement, nor have other authors' books,

from whence he learned, selling in the Way Bookstore for all to read.

Mike I did read all that (on the other thread), and it made as little sense then, as it does now.

Sure -- docvic claimed to have taught other's stuff,

but when you get right down to it, he never gave them the credit

IN HIS PRINTED WORKS!!

If he didn't have the decency to acknowledge his sources IN PRINT, then he plagaurized.

LOL --- would love to see him try to do the same to any college professor today.

He'd a gotten kicked outta *class*, with a failing mark.

Geeeeesh.

Edited February 10, 2006 by dmiller

[Mike]

You're making up rules and then complaining he didn't follow them.

It was a FAMILY, not a University or a brute marketplace.

His job was to teach us ABOUT GOD in those books, not about all the details of where he got the pieces from.

Those details were not important to us then, and they SHOULD have no importance to us now.

It's the CONTENT of the books that's important to us, not the origins.

We need the CONTENTS of Dr's books to be alive in our hearts, not the soap operas surrounding the writing of them.

[dmiller]

You're making up rules and then complaining he didn't follow them.

No --- I am not making up rules.

Go to any university (I assume there is one there in San Diego -- maybe not),

and ask any professor how it works.

If you want -- I can do the same here in Minney-soda, and we could compare notes - eh? :)

[mstar1]

The topic: PFAL

first post

Its been interesting to me to see how fast the thread went from the topic requested to the idolatry of Wierwille.

PFAL leads directly to the idolization of Wierwille, doesnt take long either

[CM]

ex10

Mike isn't interested in what pfal taught.

He promotes himself and his version of it.

Using it to snare others into his trap of exploitation.

And confusing the topic as always. Changeing it to

Worshipping VPW, because of his hatred for God,

and godly people. Always putting people like Paul

and the others down beneath VPW..his god.

[CM]

Well, I agree, but i have to read bible to refute that? be more specific please ! I'd go with a non biblical response ... my first breath was good ... I didn't know it was available ... I'm feeling argumentative :)

ok, lets just do acts for starters.

acts 2, did they know it was available for them to speak the wonderful works of God?

how bout Peter, did he know an angel would open the prison door for him?

If there is one place where this saying don't work.

"you have to know what's available to receive anything from God"

then it simply is not true.

Edited February 10, 2006 by CM