Diamond

Thank you Kathy! That was very sweet of you. I'm sure you were not the only one :) who didn't know that! God Bless You!

Thank you Dmiller! It is very much appreciated! :) God Bless You!

Spot

Thank you so much for your response. You definitly made me think and see this topic in a much clearer, greater light than I had before. I will definitly take your advice on "whether or not I am looking up a scriptural term or man's terms and definitions " when doing any further research.

You gave me much to think on and I thank you again.

So yes, I believe God loves us unconditionally. But I also believe God puts in place boundaries and natural consequences that we must endure when we behave badly. Sometimes those consquences are mild like the pain of a stubbed toe, sometimes those consequences are carried with us through the rest of our lives like a lost limb, sometimes those consequences can even be deadly.

Abi thank you so much for responding and being so clear and logical in your explanations. I agree with this statement. That God's love is unconditional with boundries that we are expected to stay within makes sense to me.

dear child,

it's got to be unconditional or up i'm up sheet's creek

many hugs

Hahaha...that would make at least two of us I think...

Dear RC,

Conditional Love does not have to be earned! It is given! It merely means you have a free will choices and/or responsibilities to chose how you behave and what you believe... or accept the consequences of your choices that lie outside the boundaries of say God's conditions and ways or the families conditions or ways....or even that of any relationship; Whether it be friend, peer or acquaintance. There are obligations/conditions in all relationships. Knowing the boundaries of each one and interactive communication and mutual respect cement the love in the relationship. They make and keep it strong and growing and make it able to continue to deepen; or else the relation becomes vulnerable and then destructive forces within or without are able to tear it apart. When love is maintained by conditions then it has a cost, therefore it is earned.

All of this helps explain to me why God gave us free will. If He unconditionally loved us; we may as well be puppets on a string. What?

The same as in any family. God still loves us and our parents and family, still love us; but dependant upon how far we drift outside of their or God's love there are consequences and their are God's conditions to restore the relationship. Just as in a family. If I had a husband and he raped and beat me I would not want to continue our relationship. To say the least! I would be angry with him and want Him to go or totally stop hurting me. Further my love for him would be conditional and diminished and perhaps not restoreable. Alright I agree with the concept of "consequences" in a relationship. But if God still loves us how can we "drift" outside of His love? Either we are in it or out of it. We can drift outside of the boundries set to maintain good favor but not love.

God chooses how He loves and what he requires and "His thoughts are higher than our thoughts and His ways are higher than our ways": Isa 55:9. God's ability to love is perfect; I have not ever known the love of mankind to be that perfect, under any conditions... very sadly so! No argument

If God doesn't like everything that everyone does then how can He unconditionally love everything that everyone does? Is that logical? We even as His children displease Him to limitlessly varing degrees. I wasnt asking about behavior. No-one can like everything that everyone does that would be ridiculous and impossible. I never said that God unconditionally loved what we did.

I similarly do not like everything that Joshua does and I do not unconditionally love everything he does. I Love Him so I train Him up well as God says to train him and to teach him well to the best of my abilities and with all my heart.... and I still remain frail and human and so I am extremely thankful that God remembers my frame and offers me a way to be forgiven and restores my relationship with Him to its fullness; Joshua has boundaries. Yes, I Love Him more than anyone could ever imagine or understand; and you as equally as Josh. But if He were a premeditative serial killer and rapist I would no longer like or love Him very much at all. He would have chosen to act evilly and without regard to the innocent and defenseless. He could have my forgiveness and restore our relationship but I cannot blindly accept or blindly love with "Blanket acceptance" of anyway that anyone chooses to behave, act, live or believe." No one loves me that way or ever has; not even God. Should God blindly love the premeditative rapists and murderers who willfully and unrepentantly preform all their evils??? Doesnt "blind" imply that you do not know about something? Similarly I do not think that "blanket acceptance" is equal to forgiveness as you imply. One other thing, if Josh were to comitt an evil then you would be most hurt by it "because" you love him.

Mankind's love is very conditional. Look at the divorce rate, broken homes and murder/suicide stats in this world. I have no argument with this statement, but I asked about God's love not man's.

Remember God who is perfect, Say's we should be" imitators of him as dear children"...it is an imperfect world...that continually "waxes worse and worse" that we live in; we are to guard our hearts and not with "blanket acceptances" of evil. not "turn the other cheek." Blindness is not an asset whether it be physically, mentally or spiritually. To love someone is not an acceptance of behavior. Consequences are based on behavior, love is based on the person. Just because a person acts like an idiot does not mean that they are an idiot.

RC is your love unconditional? Yes. I would ask you if your love was unconditional but you have already documented here that your love is conditional.

Please read my first post. What that? That was a great synopsis of a website. You are right anyone can find anything to prove their argument on a website. You proved that point well.

Thanks for clarifying RChild. I understand your dilemna and I can offer my opinion, but that is all it would be, my opinion.

Thanks Abi, you opinion is worth as much as anyone elses opinion and I personally value it very much.

In answer to your questions, will the outcome change the way that I make decisions in my life, no, it will not. I am not asking this to justify nor validate any of my past or future actions. But only to understand the truth and possibly to understand human love a bit better.

You are right it is important that we are honest and loving towards God. And I can respect and see the possible lack of relevance to the question and regardless of the outcome to the question it will not affect my love for God or how I make my decisions.

Knowing how God's love works towards man helps me to understand our love for God and for each other in day to day life.

And your final question, is my love for myself conditional or unconditional? Well, I'm still working on that one. There is much that I need to work on in my own life. This is one reason why I have come here to seek some help in sorting out the confusions.

Thank you for your responses they do help me to define the parameters and to see that my love for God and how I conduct my life is really an important point.

What exactly is it you are trying to figure out - conditional love verses unconditional love?

Can you define the terms? What those terms mean to you?

Do you know why you are asking these questions at this time? Do you know what sits peacefully in your heart?

We can debate all the verses and their various meanings, but I think you will be right back to, "I've seen both sides of the argument "proven" by using the same scriptures, so which way is it?"

That is why I ask the questions I did. :)

Conditional love to me means that you have to earn it. Do we earn God's love when we are born again? That doesn't make sense to me because He had to have loved His people in the Old Testament. And it seems pretty shallow to think that He doesn't love everyone.

But if His love is unconditional then does that mean that He loves everyone the same, saint and sinner alike? What would be the benefit in terms of God's love to be born again if He already loves you unconditionally.

Is it earned or given? I know the difference between God's grace and mercy and I know that they are given freely but is His love given freely as well or does he have conditions on His love. Can we do something wrong and lose His love? That would seem shallow as well because most parents love their children no matter what they do. They may not be happy with what they do, but they love them all the same.

I read the posts by women like Rascal when she talks about the baby that she had to give up. I can feel her pain and great sense of loss through the computer. She obviously loved that child very deeply and yet she never even saw it. If a human's love can be so great and can go so far beyond physical boundries then why can't God's love be even bigger. Someplace in the Bible it talks about God's ways being bigger than ours. Doesn't it make sense that His love would be without conditions and could not be "lost"?

I'm not sure if that is very clear, as I said I am confused.

Thank you for asking Abi!

I've been taught several "sides" on this topic and I have seen different things. So basically I am confused.

Did TWI teach that God's love was unconditional? If so, were they right?

I've seen both sides of the argument "proven" by using the same scriptures, so which way is it?

Can someone help me, please?

Is God's love conditional upon salvation or does He really love everyone like John 3:16 says?

Great Thread.

Happy Birthday CoupCake!!! Hope you have a wonderful day!!!

I'm sorry to hear of your current Health problems ((((Free)))) Your in my prayers always that God restores your vision, and heals your body.....Just know that nothing in your physical health can change the beauty of your heart, or change how much you are loved by your family and others..

Love, RainbowsChild :)

RG,

You'll always be the best Diamond in the Ruff to me!!!! I have a life now that I would never have had with out you. You needn't polish too much...I love you just the way you are.

Love You moma,

RC

Thanks Momma This one is for you and the true way I feel about youPS To Everyone: The You Tube mom put up for me, I use to make her sing to me everyday for a year before I lived with herLove Always, Your Daughter

Carole King

Welcome to the fold RainbowsChild, you have a great mom!!

Thank You :) FreeAtLast. And yes, I think she is the absolute best mom I could ever have imagined to have.

Happy Birthday Freeatlast!!!! Hope you have a wonderful day again.

((((Free)))) :)

Wow Fullcircle, Thank You for taking the time to have written all that, I will look for the book...That was much more helpful to me than you know. Thanks again!

Hi Guys,

Glad to see your back, I loved the music on the website. You all are truely veryyyyyyyyy talented....The rest of the website looks great too. I hope you will be making your music available?

RainbowsChild

HAPPY EASTER EVERYONE!!!!!!!