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Great atticle defining a cult https://findingmyway12.substack.com/p/waityou-grew-up-in-a-cult

That substack by Liz Childers is remarkable in that she shows so well what her cult experience was like and how it continues to affect her today. She writes in such a brave, down-to-earth way, with clarity and deep understanding. Cheers to Liz! Charlene

To be a little more clear, I had a friend once who talked about how she survived a car accident in which two other people died (people she did not know) and she capped the story by saying, "God is good." God is good. Unless you're the other family. F'em. Now, that's not to say ANYTHING about my (now former) friend. Our reasons for no longer being friends have nothing to do with that incident. My criticism of "God is good" in that context is completely independent of my friend's character, just as criticism of "God spared candidate X and said f'em to the family of the fallen firefighter" has nothing to do with candidate X. Candidate X could have been comedian X or movie star X or pop singer X and the criticism of "God is good" in that context is the same. The fact is, praising God for sparing one person when other people in the same incident were not spared strikes me as insensitive at best, horrifyingly arrogant at worst. And if we're really talking about the goodness of God, then that's something that needs to be answered. I mean, if you're trying to convince me there is a God and he's really good. If you're not trying to convince me, that's another story. [Claimer/disclaimer for anyone reading along who doesn't already know: modcat5 and Raf are the same person].

Well.. this one deserves posted more than once. The Best of Chicago..

The sentence "I hope this makes sense." was referring to my first paragraph. I was in a hurry to finish the post and stuck it at the end. It was a "haste makes waste" sort of thing. "Taking it on faith" is considered a strong virtue for those who believe in a religion. Even when their god(s) fail them, most will hold on to it still.

Why do we no longer see the miracles that were prevalent before we could scrutinize them and subject them to inquiry? Why is it easier to make excuses for why an omnipotent God is powerless to bring good to pass than it is to recognize he is a fictional character who could not affect our lives if he had an existence or will that wanted to?

Hey everyone, I’ve been looking at this site for years and decided to join. I was raised in The Way and just left in 2017, with my husband who was also raised in The Way. We left after seeing the deep corruption and evil within the organization, and after becoming Christians within 24 hours of each other. We have found true freedom and healing over the past 2 years in getting to know Jesus as our God, and though our families have rejected us, have found an amazing family within our church community. Both my husband and I desire to help those who are struggling with leaving The Way, and who are struggling with doing the brain surgery required to unravel all of the lies. We have been able to maintain our faith through this process, and actually understand what “freedom in Christ” means. Personally, I am still working through a variety of issues resulting from my upbringing (both from TWI and a rough parent situation). Counseling and inner healing ministry have been incredibly helpful, and I am hopeful that with time, I will be completely free. Our prayer is to see The Way die completely, and we pray for healing to those who have left but still hold onto the harmful beliefs that the cult teaches its followers. So many people leave TWI but are never truly free from it. My husband and I are available if anyone has questions, or if you are hurting and need a friend who understands what you’re going through.

Of course it makes sense. EVERY human is highly qualified to rationalize and therefore justify what they believe about anything, including what they consider God. Same goes for EVERY religion. There is no religion that can rightly claim their God (or god or gods) is/are the only true God and that they can prove it. It's all about taking it on faith. IOW, every religion has an origin story and a narrative about what they believe is THE truth.

It’s a noteworthy point – when young children see something that is different from what they know or something they simply don’t understand, they often show their wonderment or confusion on their faces and then will ask questions – the most favourite one for parents is “why.” You got to love them for it.

We were trying to prove that we knew that we knew that we knew.

Hmmmm. I had a professor in Real Analysis.. he went over about 20 boards of work, trying to prove some theorem.. after watching him traverse forwards and backwards, upside down and right side up.. I would often wonder, what is it that we were exactly trying to prove to begin with..

Yeah, I get it. However, you became the you that you are because of the decision that you made. IOW, I look at the fact that I didn't graduate from college until I was 31 differently, though my detours were both US military service and TWI. I lived some life and gained some insight I wouldn't have been able to if not for the experiences, good and bad, I had as a young adult. Ultimately, I expect to reach my 70th birthday this year. I'm a survivor. My first introduction to twi was in October 1974.

I haven't seen one in years. It's funny now but at the time when LCM said I would have one someday after I am ordained, I thought that sounded like a sweet deal.

In fairness, twi is a shadow of what it used to be, and almost 100% of everyone who was ever involved in twi is now out one way or another. So, not so many people still need help as was the case 20 years ago. That there are still people who need help is the reason this place is still around.

They may have a few betamax machines. Most were supposed to be bought locally. All expenses were paid for out-of-pocket by everyone on the field. All vcrs were bought and maintained locally. All classes were held in places rented by, or owned by, locals. So, locals everywhere were SOL when the decision to go betamax yielded the result of a dead-end system that nobody else used. That decision was made by someone who had a 50/50 chance of making the right decision, and supposedly heard from God Almighty before making any decisions, or, indeed, opening his mouth.

We here have pretty much all had to deal with these issues, one way or another, even in not "born into" TWI. This place is but a shadow of what it used to be, but there is a lot of help and healing in the earlier posts. I stumbled across GSC - oh my, it must be 20 years ago - and what I read then firstly enraged me ("who would say such things about such a wonderful ministry?!") and then healed me, as I realised that it wasn't me that was so screwed up and useless, it was and is TWI. The wisdom and help available is immense, if you can seek it out. We've been there. We understand, without you having to explain. ("Why didn't you just walk away?" "What's the matter with you?" "You're so weak/stupid/...") Help, and be helped. It's why this place is here. Even after all these long years.

"What are we going to do with 200 Chevy Citations and 5,000 betamaxc machines?"

Wonder what happened to any of these CORPORATE ASSETS. Cars, motorcycles, plane(s), bus(es). Should have been sold if surplus to requirements, and the money go into general residue for the benefit of those entitled under the CHARITABLE PURPOSES of TWI. I'm guessing that the charitable purposes could well have been the private, individual, livings of head honchos. The more abundant lies life, and all that, y'know.

He came to dinner in my wow vet home in Boston. he showed up in a sedan driven by someone else. I was 11 years old. i remember asking "where's the motorcycle?" and VPW told me "it's parked". I remember thinking "no crap it's parked. i didn't think it was floating in the sky". Later that night I was reproved by my twig leader for being out of line. I was a kid. i just wanted to see the motorcycle. This happened to me a few times where I got chewed out for being a kid. So while hd did visit our twig, there was no bike and we also had to give him all of our money. The ABS wasn't "enough" so the twig leader made the 4 adults in the wow vet home cough up their pay checks. They were so blessed lol

It was for Mrs. W. to ride in. Keep in mind, this wasn't the only one he had. There was also a classic Indian. Believers around the country donated to a special restoration fund for that one as well. And there were classic cars. J.P. gave me a ride in one of them, though I don't recall specifically what it was. It might have been a big Pontiac. I'm not sure.

It was called the Twig Hopper because he was supposedly going to use it to visit twigs around the country. What a joke. The Way of Ohio limb hq. was about a 2 hr. drive from Int. HQ. How many times do you think he ever bothered to visit the FellowLaborers program during the 3 years I spent there? If you answered zero, you win the prize.

Personally for me I mean unless people are talking about parking space miracles which is another story completely I don’t have periods of time in my life of walking on water in any sense. And so other times where I sink in water are pretty much normal. Should God make the Yankees or the Red Sox win the World Series? Which one would be bringing good to pass? How about war? Do Gods people always win? Who should God make win the next election? ”With great power comes great responsibility” Peter Parker, Spider-Man

It's ALL bull$ hit. Occam's razor, to me, suggests it's ALL nothing more/less than rationalization. Why do people fall for it? That's not an easy question to answer. I suspect academics (philosophers/psychologists/sociologists) have been pondering it for years. Maybe 200 years or more.

I disagree. I think you [not you, but the community of faith in general] posited a God who exists and who demonstrates his existence only to turn around and redefine existence so as to make it undetectable to account for the fact that he fails any test for existence. If you ever get a chance, look up Carl Sagan's dragon in the garage and you'll see my point. The Bible does not describe a God who will do His best to avoid detection as a test of faith. It describes a God who rewards those who diligently seek him with tangible evidence of his power. **** For anyone not following threads, this thread is intended as the unbeliever's answer to a similarly titled thread in doctrinal. Because doctrinal is supposed to explore the Biblical answer to the questions raised therein, I chose not to respond there. But why do we not see the same miracles today that we saw in the first century or in the 1970s when people told incredible [and coincidentally unverifiable] stories of miraculous healings? You guys are twisting yourselves into pretzels seeking an answer to the point of denying any such "scarcity" exists. My unbelieving ass is sitting here giggling vecause the answer is so painfully obvious: The scarcity of miracles is directly relate to the non-existence of a power behind them.

Thank you for your post. I was also raised in TWI since birth and left when I was 20 around 2006. My parents and two brothers are still very much involved volunteering at hq weekly and a brother ordained and corps working at gunnison (and hq before that). I’ve done some therapy and am still working on processing my upbringing and relationships with my family still involved. Would love to connect.