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First off, if you're trying to get someone to settle their differences with somebody else, shouldn't you try to get them to confront their demons, face-to-face? [This site is more about all the survivors OF those who held the microphone. Those who held the microphone have had plenty of chances to speak up. The GSC gave/gives a voice to those whose voice was stolen. However, the former and present leaders, as well as former and current members, are welcome to post here. People are free to use their own names as well as pseudonyms. A few of them HAVE posted here under pseudonyms.

So, you "took the liberty to log onto Whols.com" ...... and that got your motor running? Really? Hmmm......sounds like you didn't do any diligent study of the background or history of this site. No mention of GSC's predecessor "Waydale." No mention (or understanding?) of the TWO lawsuits against Martindale/TWI. No mention of the out-of-court settlements that led to Waydale's agreement to close. No mention of hundreds of members/posters who have given heartfelt thanks to this site. No mention of second-generation kids who've told their stories of depression

Not entirely sure what you have said that is either loving or constructive; but critical, yes! And yes, there is a relationship between GSC's arrival, and LCM's departure. Have you read the court documents detailing his depravity with a certain person's wife? No? Okay, look about and you'll find out why these events coincide. Even now, there are people who have been "out" of TWI for many years (decades, some), who are so traumatized that they are only now addressing some issues. And the people who post (or at least look in) regularly are the ones who hear and understand - in a wa

Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works. There's this interesting notion. It persists among ex-twi, and, apparently, NOBODY ELSE. This notion is- it is WORSE to expose vpw, lcm, JAL, etc as rapists or embezzlers or simonists than it was for any of them to actually BE a rapist, embezzler, or simonist. The idea is that God is less pleased at whisle-blowers than at felons who still victimize His people. it's a bizarre idea. Verses like II Timothy 4:14 make it obvious- as if one has to actually be told it's obvious.

And he says all that with a great big smile on his face, and something of a chuckle in his voice. Love the way he says, TWI wants to help people become debt-free. I bet they have no idea of preparing a proper budget (a genuine budget to help a needy family that can hardly feed and clothe the kids), making arrangements with creditors for full or partial repayment on terms, what state or other benefits the people might be entitled to; and getting effective help from charities, power companies and other like organisations. I have helped hundreds of people become debt-free and I love d

Such a frikkin ego trip, to say that. Though I don't remember it as "the ministry would fail" but more along the lines that "the word of God would be lost" or some such nonsense. Too long ago to be sure. When I heard whatever it was, it was a "Whaaaattttt?" moment - a red flag, really, but one of many I ignored. Immediately forgot about. But then, I had decent, giving, Christian parents as role models. My parents weren't denominational - dad went to the Anglican church, mum to the Methodist (when she could manage to). I couldn't see either of them losing their faith or their l

Just trying to keep up with the vendor releases. Failure to do so is what caused the gallery to disappear for awhile.

Thank you Pawtucket. I just want to say I wish everyone here on Grease spot cafe all the best. I know that I wouldn't be where I am today had I not found this site. Thank you for being there. I don't know if whether I would be in a better place right now had it not been for Grease spot cafe. I really don't. Anyway, Happy Labor Day all. I thank God that our country is a free democracy with unalienable rights.

You are entirely right that God works in small settings. Early commandments and instructions to the fledgling people of Israel include this: Deut 7:7 7The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than the other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples and if you read the early chapters of Deuteronomy (it's well worth the re-read), it's all about staying pure and close to the heart of God, rejecting falsehoods, and taking care of those who can't look after themselves. This tiny nation was to be an example to the rest of the world and

This just in: Nana has changed course and is now headed for the local bingo hall.

If Rosie does pounce – I can “imagineer” a drunken brawl erupting and someone with enough beer-bravado applies a chokehold on her – reminiscent of the scene when Nurse Ratched gets strangled by Jack N ....oh happy day! psssst ! it’s a 3 minute clip – the buildup to the strangle scene begins at the 2 minute mark…btw, after reviewing this YouTube clip a few times before posting it – I realized there's a lot of things about that movie that could be an allusion to a cult experience... ....anyway, great movie, Skyrider !

Thank you for that information T-Bone. The editing worked.

you can still edit it. the edit button moved to the upper right of your post...click on the three dots and you will see 3 options: report, share and edit I think things got moved around when they did an update

Rocky, for some reason I thought of the old saying a guilty conscience needs no accuser – where a person knows they are in the wrong reveal their guilt by what they say or even how they interpret what others say. In the context of Grease Spot, this idea comes to mind when folks come on here and vehemently defend, explain away, minimalize, distract, derail a discussion about wierwille, TWI, whatever and/or intensely attack Grease Spotters or the things they say.... sometimes it seems as if a discussion on Grease Spot has struck a nerve...Now when I said the person knows they are in the wrong –

There continues to persist the notion that the GSC is REQUIRED to be a Christian messageboard, rather than a messageboard open to all religious positions (including anti-religious positions and a-religious positions.) To require that would be a DISSERVICE to twi survivors who no longer consider themselves Christian. Some ex-twi were so scarred by twi, by vpw, by lcm, by JAL, by CG, by rfr, that the flee Christianity completely. I disagree with their decisions, but I have sympathy for anyone who's been hurt like that. Telling them to "just suck it up" does not work, and is rather I

First, to correct a few factual inaccuracies at the same time..... After vpw had unilaterally appointed lcm as his successor, and vpw's health waned, vpw found out that the system that embraced him while he was The Big Cheese With No Accountability now embraced lcm, and vpw found himself as irrelevant as he'd made everyone else. Unable to accept being treated like everyone else, vpw ran to Gartmore and cried on Geer's shoulder. According to CG- whose account I believe reflected what happened- vpw spent a considerable amount of time making all sorts of predictions (which all fai

Do you really assume/surmise that telling the stories people tell on GSC are about "trying to get someone to settle their differences with someone else? Why might you have a hard time grasping that telling one's story or stories is about anything other than telling one's stories?

Welcome to the new splinter group. We are excited to be "living the mystery." We read the words of the Apostle Paul and are more than conquerors. We delve into this "Philippians Project" that was started back in March of this year. We are excited today to look in the scriptures about the birds in God's creation. Out of curiosity...... I have listened to several 5-10 minute snippets of these R&R teachings and a few from Rico's Oikeos group. The corps that stayed ensconced in Rosalie's Micromanagement Administration FINALLY had their fill.......and are now gi

Yes, Rocky, I thought that's probably what you meant, really. A good historical novel can in fact convey so much, and much more easily than a textbook. The principal character(s) can be set in various situations, and present different views of what's going on and how it affects the general populace. In particular right now, I'm thinking of Ken Follett's Pillars of the Earth and others in that series - it discusses cathedral building, different styles, what works and what doesn't, all from the mediaeval perspective of a journeyman builder who goes on to become a master builder; his relat

Thanks for mentioning The Book of Longings, Rocky – and I really enjoyed the YouTube interview with the author Sue Monk Kidd. She said so many interesting things about her research, experiences, silenced women – and especially the Black Madonna and imagination that I’ll have to read the book sometime. I know some folks can get offended by the artistic license and imagination of others. Personally, I think imagination is an important and even necessary part of developing my faith. That’s not to say I buy into everything that is presented through the arts – but it often helps me flesh out an ex

The "1942 promise" didn't fail. No, not at all. Because there was no 1942 promise to fail.

In retrospect – I’ve often peered through the fog of love-bombing, bait-and-switch tactics, being managed by fear and guilt, and all the other methods TWI used - and still uses - to ensnare and retain followers. For me the one lie that stands out above all others is the lie that facilitated more deceptions; it was the lie that God audibly spoke to wierwille and promised to teach him “The Word”. That was perhaps at the core of my belief system – and like the tough central part of some fruit, it contained the seeds for a variety of strains (other lies) that hide or distort the truth – one o

I usually just right-click the image to copy it and then paste it here. Apparently, that copies all the embedded information, as well. George

Found the pictures in the back room under some crates of coffee beans. Took a bit to figure out how to bring them back. Still working on cleaning them up. If you find (like most are still) images showing all black and complain about a template error when you open them, just means I haven't got to it yet. I will though. If they're your own pictures you should be able to open them, then click the configure icon in the upper right corner and select "Edit details" then save that without changing anything. Should fix it. Do the same for the album info. T-Bone's should be good now. S

"Top Secret!" was from the Zucker-Abrams team that gave us "Airplane!" and "Police Squad!" If you liked those, then see this movie.

Too late – since TWI usually thinks in absolutes – “almost” doesn’t count – and since you’ve already confessed it into the senses realm, there ain’t no telling how the Adversary will use it; TWI’s response to any suspicious emails will probably be something like “Did Twinky put you up to this?” (P.S. Twinky - I'm always wondering how far I can push the comedic envelope )

I liked this quote from the blurb: And therein is the challenge.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Utopian/Lunch - cool name what's the story behind that? That resonates with me...funny - I didn't think it was weird until I left...it's been said that nobody ever intentionally joins a cult - I think that's true...Grease Spot is a good place to figure some things out and unravel some of the convoluted weirdness...I've met a lot of good helpful folks here...also it's been a good place for me to think out loud - and from that I've learned how to explain my experience in a much clearer and concise manner and don't feel embarrassed or concerned about some stigma...

try this link - Passing of a Patriarch you can find a lot of stuff by using the Grease Spot search tool in upper right of the web page

Very true.

Well, I connected w/ John Schoenheit et al for a bit about 3-4 years ago, and was talking with a very respected leader in S&TF who teaches/counsels on recovery from various spiritual and sexual abuses. She clearly intimated that for a good while up til rather recently(??) JAL had enough of that "helping himself" mind set that S&TF would not have anything to do with him or his ministry. Of course JAL has had serious health issues, and I pray for him, BUT just sayin... She (am protecting her anonymity), also shared the statistic that 1/4 - 1/3 of all pastors/priests have been sexually ab

ya know...recycling way ministry books means something else to TWI-Splinter groups

Bayside Fellowship Phil Bonadies has been accused of rape and grooming...his wife Karen is now a licensed “class presenter” and president of the area... You can watch the story unfold on Instagram with the hashtag #baysidefeowship or #churchtoo. I grew up with my parents involved in TWI until 85 or 86...the woman making the claims is a close, personal friend whose family was also involved in TWI until about the same time. We reconnected recently and lamented over the fact that we Willingly followed in our parents footsteps and subjected ourselves to the same spiritual abuse. P

Yeah about *wierwille’s body of work – I mean piracy – it never had a legitimate leg to stand on in the academic, theological or even literary world - only his biggest fans give him a free pass on plagiarism. Even from a Christian point of view – his lying and stealing (plagiarism), his licentiousness - especially being a sexual predator, and his lack of self-control when it comes to alcohol and cigarettes speaks volumes on hypocrisy – one of the more unsavory topics in the Bible . A hypocrite professes to have a certain moral standard but then in practice ignores that moral norm. I’d

As top-tier corps/clergy (cough, cough) splinter from twi.......soon thereafter, some of wierwille's hard-core men desire to subjugate others with new, ongoing teachings, classes and weekends that you just can't miss [and the wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round]. In the immortal words of The Church Lady from Saturday Night Live................"How Conveeenient." Subjugate --- 1. to bring under control or subjection; conquer 2. to cause to become subservient; subdue Looking back at wierwille's ministry and corps program........I believe that subjugating was the core of the

For those arriving late, this was a quote from MRS WIERWILLE, at vpw's FUNERAL.

As a grad of the 2nd Way Corps, I thought I'd pipe up and say a few words. It's no secret that I've rejected associating with The Way and have left its teachings in my rearview mirror. Nevertheless here's my opinion about what Vern should consider doing as the new Way president (although I'm not convinced he'll ever read this). Consider this, Vern: Many former Way Corps besides me have realized from personal experience that there is no "accuracy of The Word" that exists for anyone to "return to." In light of that, I ask: What is the purpose of The Way? This is just my opi

Thanks for your question, St. Christopher.......... Spirit and Truth Fellowship International (formerly Christian Educational Services) ...... in 1987, John Lynn and others wrote a 37-page report to state their official stance against twi. Without going into all its depth, suffice it to say that these clergymen and others strongly felt that The Way International was headed in the wrong direction. Fast-forward some 25 years (1987-2002).....and this splinter group was splintering. Factions developed. Other perversions. Rev. John Lynn became a big promoter of Momentus....a perverse, s

Hi St. Christopher, and welcome to Grease Spot! I think you have a good attitude about things – I can relate to that – I am thankful for all the good people I met and the good stuff I learned while in TWI. I can’t speak to the topic of splinter groups since I’ve never gotten involved with one after I left TWI. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of TWI and what went wrong – so here’s my two cents. I tend to think that wierwille was probably a poser from the get-go. I am not one to portray him as the devil incarnate. Nor do I get into judging whether or not he was a born

The ministry wasn't "ruined by a few corrupt individuals". The ministry was corrupt from its very inception, clear back to when Wierwille decided to steal the works of other people and claim they were the results of his own research or that God had given them to him by revelation. That being said, there were a lot of wonderful people that passed through The Way. Many good experiences were mixed with the bad. In no way does that excuse the reality of The Way's truly corrupt nature.

I'll ask GreasyTech

IIRC, it was around 1953 that he encountered both Leonard's class and Stiles' book (and Leonard and Stiles.) Yes, a decade after that, with him showing no real success in his ministry- at least as HE measured success. Once he encountered Leonard's class and Stiles' book, that changed. He taught a class identical to Leonard's and printed a book identical to Stiles', with later versions of each actually adding changes. What vpw taught was based almost entirely on a mix of what other people taught first- Leonard, Stiles, Bullinger, Kenyon.... Yes, his stealing from Leonard and S

When I got involved in the mid-70s.........the pitch was "This PFAL Class has the keys to understanding the Bible, God's Word. Dr. Wierwille has put this class together from decades of researching the Scriptures to help anybody and everyone who wants to receive holy spirit into manifestation and see the power of God in their lives." Like so many things.......the messaging was evolving. But back then, in my state........there was major emphasis on receiving holy spirit into manifestation so that I could have the power of God when I needed it most. Very little emphasis was put on wierwil

In twi's organization chart.......corps coordinators were near the top of the pyramid. With the abysmal fallout of that program, this position no longer warrants such prestige or access to the spotlight as it did in the late 70's and 80's. But at that time, corps coordinators were the "drill sergeants" who led the instruction and indoctrination of yearly waves of corps apprentices on several campuses to instill discipline, protocol and strict adherence to wierwille's "Way." There also was an inner circle of wierwillites as well........body guards, bus drivers, valets, pimps, dog trainer

Maybe the “Trust-o-Meter” is another name for critical thinking skills. I think it might be like a muscle…while in TWI, critical thinking skills are not something one is encouraged to develop…so the muscle atrophies. Grease Spot is a great place to get various points of view…I believe humility is an important element too – and since I don’t know it all, it pays to check out what others have to say. It would be impossible to make a 3-D rendering of an object if all I had was my one perspective. What’s behind it? What’s on the side? And if others had just the same perspective as my frontal view

Grace M. C., I wish to this day I had smacked that guy in the mouth for saying that we should "take him up into the North Cascades so far no one can hear his screams, and take turns hitting him with a 2x4 until he realizes that if he ever disobeys again, he will be taken back to that place and he will die there!" This piece of offal also told us that he would drag his 3-year-old daughter, the youngest of their four children, down the driveway and kick her into the street before he would ever allow her or one of his children to come between him and his loyalty to "The Ministry." I wonder i

and now as we leave Fantasyland, we hear the echoes of Roy Rogers singing"Happy Trails to You Until We Meet Again", or have we entered into Once Upon a Time with Roselie portraying Regina the evil Queen/Mayoress, and who is TWI's version of Emma Swann to save everyone from this nightmare, created by Rumpelstilkin/VPW(or is that LCM, CG, or Mr. Linder perhaps?). My name is Rod Serling and you have just entered the Twilight Zone(cue music). Or maybe I am Dan Curtis and this is Dark Shadows, with Wierwille portraying Barnabas Collins and Martindale is Quentin.

My good friend is a member of that fellowship. I know that John did not adhere strictly to all that DR Weirwille taught. He reworked things and greatly encouraged people to go to the Word and figure things out on their own. My friend has been a member of that fellowship for at least 11 years and I believe that the fellowship is sweet. Bottom line - take things slow and be ready to speak up if you dont' get or trust something. I don't see anything wrong with getting involved with any group as long as you are willing to not turn your brain off.

Richard, Welcome to Gspot and I applaud you for wanting to do a little background check on any group that you are considering "joining." I have never attended any of their fellowships, but I am an "expert" on the way (does 28 years in count?) I knew John and his wife and I think they are personally decent people, and they THINK they are serving God in their own hearts. THAT SAID..................their entire doctrine is based on and copied over from A CULT. Their foundation in the bible comes from what they learned from A CULT. Their structure, and teaching styles come from what they lea