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  1. We stand for those we respect, either voluntarily or compulsorily, according to social norms. We stand for the judge AND the jury in a courtroom. Soldiers stand at attention for their commanders. Does everyone stand for the President? (I'm thinking of the press corps - do journalists stand at a press conference when the President enters?) Here in the Deep South, some of us stand for women whenever they stand, and sit after they sit. I suspect standing for an authoritative figure goes back to emperors and kings, who were usually military leaders. Standing for self-proclaimed religious leaders has its tradition in the Catholic Church - not 1st century, not Paul (as much as he would have loved the attention). If one has to whine about others standing for him, one doesn't deserve the gesture of respect. Whining about such a thing tips one's hand to one's illegitimacy.
    4 points
  2. I worked for Disney studios for 25 years...after my twig leader days, so it doesn't really count. I recently found out that a coworker for many years was in the way....shockingly still considers himself to be... but the topic never came up in the years we worked together...I 'discovered' the info in an odd FB manner....I think not knowing spared me a lot of dynamics I was better off without. At any rate..I wasn't Goofy..but drew him an awful lot.
    3 points
  3. vpw's bait-and-switch was sometimes used right in pfal, but other times it was not. If 100% of all you knew about vpw came straight from pfal tapes/films and the books of that class, you'd be surprised to hear that vpw claimed to have been appointed by God. In pfal, vpw was specific about the holy spirit field being a field to which he had dedicated his life. Period. It was a few years after the filmed pfal class that the 1942 Promise was ever spoken to anyone, whether spoken to the early corps or put in print in "the Way-Living in Love." If you focused exclusively on the class, you might be surprised when someone said that vpw made such a claim. (I know because I was surprised, and I felt uncomfortable about it, for reasons that went right back to what vpw taught about revelation.) But lots of people were taught this- AFTER being taught pfal, and after buying into it. Second, yes, pfal ended with references to the church epistles- in the actual film. When you sat a class, the staff would advertise reading pfal materials for 3 months or more. Why was there no such advertisement in the pfal film? One, there WERE no pfal materials to study way back when the film was made. There were a few pamphlets, and that was it. LATER, we got "Christians Should Be Prosperous" - and all class coordinators were instructed- by vpw- to make sure that was read early in the class. So, I'm sure someone will insist that this was NOT something vpw pushed. I'm sure someone will suggest that- since it wasn't in the filmed class, that vpw had nothing to do with it. So, it's important to remember what he DID say on the subject. Over the years, people complained about his practice of "put aside all reading external to pfal for 3 months" thing. Did he take this moment to correct people, and redirect them to read THE EPISTLES for 3 months and chide them for switching to vpw books for 3 months instead? NO. He did take the time to address complaints. He didn't say "My detractors confuse the Church Epistles with twi materials." He talked about the complaint of 3 months of only twi materials. He DOUBLED DOWN on it. Rather thah say "It's 3 months of the Church Epistles, read your Bible!", he emphasized that people should do it. Then he got cutesy, "I'll make you a bet. If you put aside all newspapers and magazines for 6 months, when you pick them up again, they'll be just as negative as they were 6 months ago. I will add, however, that they may be MORE negative." So, once there WERE pfal books, vpw instituted the practice of having the students told to focus on THOSE for 3 months, even if the films/tapes said to focus on the church epistles. Thirdly, the final segment of pfal had a bait-and-switch built right into it. Even though vpw liked to read Ephesians 6:10 to crowds and make like he didn't want people to follow him, but rather The Lord, in pfal he did a bait-and-switch. "Finally, my brethren, I want you to be strong in the Lord.' Strong in the Lord, not strong in what a theologian might say. Not strong in what a Bible teacher may say. But if that theologian says what the Word says, if that Bible teacher says what the Word says, then you've got to be strong in what they say. " This came at the end of 12 sessions where we are all aware he'd been badmouthing all other teachers and theologians as useless for learning the Word, and putting himself forth as some great one, indeed, as the sole Bible teacher who understood what we needed, who didn't actually plagiarize others, but was the SOLE source of sound teaching. So, after 12 sessions of selling himself as the SOLE Bible teacher saying what the Word says, he said that- if you find a Bible teacher who says what the Word says- then you've got to be strong in what they say. What does all of that say, once stripped of the jargon? "God is telling you to be strong in what vpw is teaching." It's that simple, that's what he was dancing around, INSINUATING, IMPLYING, SUGGESTING, but never having the guts to say directly, leaving that for other people, all so he could say "I never said that" if asked. All of that is as elaborate a set of THEATRICS as I've ever experienced.
    3 points
  4. The way international is built on victor paul wierwille, not Jesus Christ. Sure, they mention his name at the end of a prayer and they love to talk about his accomplished works, but otherwise they have nothing to do with him. That's anti-Christ btw. In practice they completely side step Jesus Christ and have no fellowship with him. The Bible clearly states otherwise: 1 John 3:1 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.” The content of way international books is a hodge podge of sources that tickled the ears of wierwille and gave him a schtik to sell - classes, books, etc. I don't care that his stolen materials quote bible verses and sound spiritual - wierwille's materials are loaded with lies. As for Wierwille, the following versus handle his ilk. 2 Timothy 3:1-7 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
    3 points
  5. BTW, the "God gave manna, God is not manna" was a direct quote from Raf. For the curious, here's a breakdown on "the 5 things to know to receive anything from God." Supposedly, they are: 1) What is available 2) How to receive it 3) What to do with it after you've got it 4) Your need must parallel your want 5) God's ability equals God's willingness. Ok, here's how that nonsense breaks down... 1, 2 and 3 are not informative- they're what you do to get anything. If you want to make a sandwich, you have to know there's fixings in the fridge. Then you have to know how to go get them from the fridge, and assemble them in the bread. Then you have to know how to shove the sammich into your piehole. How to receive a sandwich from the refrigerator: First you must know what is available, then you must know how to receive it, then you must know what to do after you've got it. No, that was no revealing of some great secret there, in either case. There's nothing in the actual Bible that says "needs must parallel wants." If anything, I can make a case for asking for what's promised," but, frankly, that's not REQUIRED for anything. I would think approaching God with an attitude of humility would be more important than any of this- I've certainly gotten better results that way- and far more SPECIFIC results that way. Finally, 5. "God's ability equals God's willingness." This is a bit of nonsense that is not true. God is able to destroy all life on Earth whenever he feels like it. (Job 34: 14-15 "14 If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; 15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust." ) That's God's Ability. He obviously is not WILLING to do so because we are still here. So, God's Ability is not equal to God's Willingness. God is All-Powerful. He could reach in and destroy our free will. He has the Ability to do so. He is NOT WILLING to do so. Whatever vpw was plagiarizing there, again, was something he didn't understand (or he plagiarized nonsense, which is also possible.)
    3 points
  6. Respondind to both posts but not in turn. way international leadership still behaves the exact same way. They say it's out of respect for the word that an individual teaches and that's why they stand. Bottom line is way international leadership - particularly the way corps want to be served and they demand it. The higher up the foodchain you get the more protocol is demanded from followers. Now, with HQ they have streamlined some of the standing...at the noon meal for example --- staff don't have to stand up when eating everytime someone comes to the lectern. The head table...geez....what a fiasco. The headtable servers have their own little doctrines they use to do special favors for the directors. Of course they say it's to bless the directors for all they do for us...or some such drivel. I had to sit at the head table for an entire week everytime I emceed the noon meal when I was cabinet. It's one of the stuffiest, fake environments I have ever been a part of. And it was nothing to get a call from Rosalie reproving me for the slightest offence. Chockfull really hits the nail on the head calling them pharisees. They do prefer the cheif seats and special adoration. They are not servants but are there to be served. As late as 1999, my candidate year for the way corps, I was given military books to read. Books on Chesty Puller, et. al. They weren't required reading but suggested to me by local leadership so I could get a grasp on the pretend military lifestyle of active way corps....and a suggestion is paramount to a command. I was taught that very early on in my short way corps career. Bottom line (from my personal experience) is the way international has a caste system and the further up the ladder you are able to climb the more you can demand to be served and salaamed by followers. The way corps are some of the most egotistical people I have ever met. I was egotistical as all get out when I was way corps too. That's something that was taught by example in my training and a very undesireable character trait I have had to work to overcome.
    3 points
  7. vpw wouldn't know military procedure if it bit him in the ankle. vpw never went into the military. vpw never went into the Reserve. vpw never went into the National Guard. vpw never went into the ROTC. When WWII was in the distance, vpw entered divinity school, which just happened to move him out of the pool of possible draft candidates. Anyone who thinks that's a coincidence when he'd previously been dithering over entering business or music, well, what can I say? vpw never had any immediate family or immediate friends enter the military, or even anything else I mentioned above. All vpw knew about the military was what it said in the movies and on TV. If he'd really loved the Marines, he'd have JOINED the Marines. What he loved was the appearance, the "bark an order and they do it" thing. He had no idea what it was to BE a Marine. He never even participated in tabletop general exercises for fun. So, the only thing he liked about generals was the "I get to bark an order and they have to obey" thing from entertainment. Anything behind it didn't even exist for him.
    3 points
  8. Hi, friends! Sorry I'm late to the party. I step in and out of cult world, because it's just too heavy sometimes. I'm Craig's oldest kid and wanted to jump on this thread to help out if I can... Annio, I think the website you're writing about is at biblebookprofiler.com. That's not him, though. So the things written about depression and anxiety and suicidal thoughts -- which I can't imagine him ever admitting to -- and the personality tests are not him. It's some other guy that happens to have posted dad's stuff on his site. Dad is actually doing these "teachings" currently, and most (if not all?) of his followers are ex-Way people. This frustrates me to no end. How many people will he hurt and mislead in his lifetime? As to the question of his mental health and where he went astray -- out of respect and love for my grandmother, who is still living, I won't give details here. But parts of his childhood were intensely traumatic. This might sound odd, but, as far as I can have compassion for him, I believe he was born a gentle soul and is rather fragile. Hence all the bluster and anger and defensiveness (and face meltings). I don't write this to excuse his behavior, but I find that understanding him helps me, at least. He was primed to need a daddy figure, and he got one in Wierwille. He has seen a counselor. Briefly, in 2000, maybe for about a year. I also saw this counselor, and he helped me immensely in a time of deep depression. I think he was hardly able to scratch the surface with dad. Dad attended out of obligation at the time. What else...? If you have questions, I'll answer them if I can <3
    3 points
  9. Vic-o-lantern got you in big trouble? Are you having second thoughts about selling your home to go in the Way Corps? Vic’s VapoRub to the rescue! Q: What does Vic’s VapoRub do? A: Vic’s VapoRub temporarily relieves clarity due to minor inconsistencies and intellectual irritations associated with common sense. It can also be used to temporarily relieve minor moral dilemmas and pains of conscience due to qualms. Only use as directed by the “Doctor” or your local Pharisee. When life rubs you the wrong way then Vic’s VapoRub is The Way. ~~ ~~ ~~ advertisement paid for by the committee to resurrect wierwille
    2 points
  10. When I was in rez, LCM commented one time (lunch time "sharing"?) that he sometimes walked the corridors in Founders Hall, praying for the people there. I'm very much a night owl and there were a couple of quiet but public places I'd go and sit and read or study or write letters. I always hoped I'd see this great "man of God" and be able to speak with him on his perambulations. But I never saw him, was a bit disappointed. I wondered if perhaps he roamed some of the other corridors. Once I learned of his abuse of females (graduated corps, not in rez Corps). then it made sense. I'm guessing he was visiting some female(s) in the other parts of Founders Hall. And his comment was to cover himself if anybody saw him in the Hall at some strange hour of night, when he might be expected to be in that fancy wooden house. And his comment about praying was, I began to assume, misunderstood. He was walking about PREYING on people, not praying for them.
    2 points
  11. Excellent responese T-Bone. Mike - so you are saying it's ok for people to steal because everything belongs to God. That logic could hold true over anything then if it were to hold true over intellectual property. Why not go steal your neighbor's chainsaw? I mean God created all the raw material to make it. But lemme ask you this - The way international holds the copyrights for VPW's stolen materials including, but not limited to, PFAL - classes and books. Why do they so aggressively defend their copyrights in court if none of it matters? And to be clear, I'm don't even care about copyright matters in this case. Im concerened with the complete lack of godly ethics from the supposed man of God. Stealing is stealing and God condemns it whenever and wherever it occurs. Just because wierwille stole intellectual works it's still stealing. But you wierwille fan boys have to move heaven and earth aside to rationalize the lies your idol told of himself. My advice, toss Wierwille out the picture and dedicate your life to following Christ and his teachings.
    2 points
  12. Desperation has set in. More and more people are going to the internet and seeing twi's ruse.....and leaving this cult. The corps program is dismal. Hundreds of corps and advanced class grads have abandoned them in the past ten years. Very few want to be worker bees at twi's compound. As twi's relevance fades into obscurity, the ONLY THING THAT THEY CAN CONROL IS THE MYTH OF WIERWILLE AND PFAL. Controlling this "information" is the key to their survival. Nothing else would hasten their collapse faster than losing "the high ground of this narrative." Yes, pfal was a stolen class from Leonard. They don't care. Yes, there are flaws throughout pfal. They don't care. Yes, wierwille was a liar and a thief. They don't care, GSC has exposed twi in every possible way, from soup to nuts. They cannot shut down this information. They cannot silence their critics. The only thing twi can do is to command (threaten) their followers NOT TO GO ON THE INTERNET. Yeah, that works...LOL. For many, it only heightens they sense of suspicion and concern that twi is hiding something. Yes, they are hiding information. Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism In the book, Lifton outlines the "Eight Criteria for Thought Reform": Milieu Control. This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large. Mystical Manipulation. The manipulation of experiences that appears spontaneous but is, in fact, planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders to demonstrate divine authority, spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets the leader and/or group apart from humanity, and that allows a reinterpretation of historical events, scripture, and other experiences. Coincidences and happenstance oddities are interpreted as omens or prophecies. Demand for Purity. The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here. Confession. Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders. Sacred Science. The group's doctrine [PFAL] or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or all humanity, is likewise above criticism. Loading the Language. The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking. Doctrine over person. Members' personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group. Dispensing of existence. The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious, and must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.[3]
    2 points
  13. To the best of my recollection, I think wierwille said something along the lines of that and then stressed we should read the epistles that were addressed to us. Your use of the word “Filtered” is poignant because it brings to mind how wierwille’s closing instructions were interpreted and applied. I think you nailed it in suggesting the PFAL lens was the filter. I can relate to that in a very real way by one of the first of many incidents where I was corralled into limiting my reading to PFAL material. I was so excited after the first time I took the class that I kept reading and rereading the entire Bible all the way through and would jot down questions – which I would then present to my Twig coordinator. To be fair – most of my questions were over stuff in the Old Testament and the gospels – not sure if his frequent redirecting me to review PFAL stuff was simply following “the teacher’s” instructions in session 12, or that my questions were way outside the scope of the PFAL material. The mental filtering promoted by wierwille was absolutely necessary to affect the cognitive dissonance he wanted his followers to experience. This stuff got me to recall an older article on psychological filters (see below ) – oh, and another interesting tie-in with Skyrider’s initial post about theatrics – there’s a part in the excerpt that gets into attention-grabbing tricks…and it also touches on why we buy something and how we tend to pay attention to info that reinforces our beliefs…which makes me think of the darker angle – being constantly directed to focus on PFAL material to reinforce a certain mindset…anyway here’s the article: Media Impacts - Unintended Consequences: How Media Can Affect Almost Everything – Psychological filters Amidst the grayness of this information, occasional messages stand out. Some break the pattern. They defy expectations. They spark curiosity. We pay more attention to these messages. Something about them screams “different, new, or unique”. Advertisers and advertising agencies spend a huge portion of their time and budgets trying to harness this principle. Messages that break the pattern help gain attention. They also help people remember information longer. However, dissonant messages do not necessarily hold people’s attention, nor do people automatically find them motivating or believable. If your minister came to Sunday services in a clown suit, people would notice. They would talk about it. Whether they found the minister credible would depend on whether the gimmick reinforced his message that week or was simply what advertisers call a “borrowed-attention device.”... …Most of us usually pay attention to information that reinforces our beliefs more than we do to information that challenges them. As a result, any individual has, at best, a partial and imperfect picture of external reality. We also tend to pay more attention to messages that affect us personally than we do to those that do not affect us. When we need a new car, suddenly we see car ads everywhere. We start reading them. We research safety ratings. We actively investigate. Once we have bought a new vehicle, our interest in reading more diminishes. We focus our attention on other things. From: observations: psychological filters End of excerpts
    2 points
  14. When I was in FellowLaborers, as a group, we focused almost exclusively on Way materials. That's all that was taught in our nightly twigs. The rationale for its exclusivity was that it had been tested and proven to be accurate. However, as individuals, we were supposed to read Ephesians every day. (As if we had time to read ANYTHING) Now, our weekly FL night teaching was hit or miss and could be about anything or nothing or maybe just a scream-fest to highlight our failures. As for the PFAL class, I seem to remember VPW challenging us to put away all secular materials such as magazines , newspapers, etc., and reading nothing but "The Word." (Filtered, of course, through the lens of what we had just learned in PFAL.) I don't recall him limiting that to the Pauline epistles. But, that was over 50 years ago. Who knows what tricks my memory has played on me? Surely, someone, somewhere, has a transcript of session 12. Regarding the original post, I have to agree, it was the theatrical nature of the presentation, not the content of the information, that reeled us in and hooked us. As a new grad, you faced this reality every time you witnessed and failed to elicit a response from the listener. That's why we were urged to get people into the class, rather than try to teach them the more convoluted concepts ourselves. Presentation, not content, was largely responsible for our infatuation with the materials.
    2 points
  15. Your post reminds me of why I started looking into the concept to begin with. The way talks so much about the accomplished works of Jesus Christ but otherwise they have nothing to do with him. He's just someone who did a job for God so we could claim all the stuff we need and live more abundantly. Hes the name sake on the end of a prayer and otherwise, according to TWI he's chillaxin until God says it's go time. Complete bollux. I was thinking last night though on Twinky post on the gospels and something clicked for me. Thanks Twinky. So the way I'm thinking about things at the moment is the gospels show Jesus Christ life and ministry to Israel where he went to his own, was rejected, etc. That part of the gospels is VITAL to understand because it's part of the basis for salvation to begin with. However, we are told to live as he lived, to walk as he walked, etc. The various epistles show what was given in the new birth, that those born again of God's spirit are a new creation in Christ and we definately are told how to walk in the spirit, etc. The church epistles are extremely important because they reveal the mystery, etc. But...where else can anyone go to LEARN how Jesus Christ lived....The Gospels! Of course we aren't required to don a tunic and sandals in our quest to live like him...remember we don't know Christ after the flesh any longer. So what are we to do? Learn to recognize the spirit behind how he walked and emulate those things he did from feeding the hungry to healing the sick to basically just loving people the way God would want us two. Those two laws the mosaic law was compressed into - Love God with all your heart sould mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. The gospels show us how he lived and show a pattern for us to emulate in our walk, thus it all comes full circle.
    2 points
  16. It was late August of 2012 when I confronted myself about my wavering faith. I was coming to terms with my sister's impending death (from ALS) and my son's autism diagnosis. A lot of people don't believe me, but those two issues did not lead me to doubt God. Rather, they exposed the doubt that was already in my heart. How? I remember asking people to pray for my sister, but I don't remember asking to pray for her healing. And not once did I pray for my son's deliverance from autism. Just for strategies and help coping. That's how I remember it, anyway. I could be mistaken. But I do know at some point in both those experiences, the notion of a miracle was not seriously entertained. I think one of the things people don't understand about losing faith is that it's not a decision. It's never one thing. It's a realization. Over a great deal of time I realized I was not praying the way I used to. Years of asking for something and getting nothing taught me to ask for nothing. The long, slow realization about the nature of the Bible could not be overcome. And, as a straw that broke the camel's back, my search for evidence that first century believers in a position to know for a fact that Jesus was raised went to their deaths rather than renounce that faith... turned up not a solitary shred of supporting evidence. I finally realized there was no longer any belief that I held that could qualify me as a Christian. I had to sort through my thoughts and feelings. Reject God outright? No, I would have to know EVERYTHING to know that (spoiler alert: that's bulls#!t). So I told myself I was agnostic. Then I realized that being agnostic is not incompatible with being atheist. One is a "lack of knowledge" claim. The other is a "lack of belief" claim. You could be both. Most atheists are. I eventually came to the conclusion that the agnostic/atheist dichotomy was not a discussion worth having. Most people don't subscribe to it, and you end up sounding defensive for no reason. When it comes to the existence of any god worth discussing, I am an atheist. Period. When it comes to the existence of some abstract concept of gotchagod, I'm agnostic, but only to the extent that such a god defies definition and testable attributes. Why am I not agnostic? Because Yawheh is a fictional character whose attributes changed over time according to what his creators needed for storytelling purposes, much like Superman and Captain America. He had a wife once. Israel went from recognizing many gods, of whom Yahweh was fiercely jealous, to acknowledging only one, which mad His jealousy wildly irrational. All those other gods? Oh, they didn't exist. Or they were demonstrations of Satan's power. Except Satan is an imaginary character too, whose attributes are comically vague. He bad. No good things. Accuser. Needs Yahweh's permission to murder Job's family. And Yahweh GRANTS IT. What the bloody... Anyway, back from THAT tangent. So now it's been 10 years. Now and then I feel an urge to explore some facet of what I once believed. Not often. For example, I believe the 12 are largely fictional characters. Not all of them. Peter, James and John were real. Judas was a fake. Paul (who certainly existed) refers to Jesus being seen of "the 12" not because Judas was still alive after the crucifixion, but because the story of his betrayal had not been made up yet. But they're just mental exercises at this point. My main concern with religion is that government stays out of its way and that it stays out of government's way. I guess we can say it's not a phase.
    2 points
  17. POLITICS is not permitted on the GSC. The GSC is NOT about politics. Funny you should bring this up exactly today. When 9-11 happened, many people felt the need to express how they felt at the moment. Over time, allowing people to keep talking on that and related subjects- and gradually less-relevant subjects- led to political discussions that poisoned the atmosphere of the board. The staff spent more time on the handful of political posters in 1 forum than they did with hundreds of other posters all along the board. People who wouldn't moderate themselves were moderated by others= and responded by lashing out at the staff like immature toddlers. It was a stressful, thankless, NEEDLESS job. Eventually, the choices were- remove the political forum and political posts, or remove the entire GSC. The GSC was never about politics and does not need to be so. So, politics was deleted. There's lots of places online to post on politics, and there's only one GSC. If you really can't control yourself, you can always find some other board of ex-GSC and go complain how unfair things are that there's actual moderation here. You would hardly be the first to do that, nor the last.
    2 points
  18. Rereading that comment (the entire comment), to me it seems even more salient and awe inspiring that the GSC member who calls herself BecomingMe chose that moniker.
    2 points
  19. I continue to learn and experience "sunesis" (running together of rivers, or something like that, but can also be described, IMO as connecting the dots). Recently, I recognized this: Talk about emotional projection! Do a GSC site search for hypnosis. The subject has come up before. But several threads/comments (well before Skyrider spelled it out this week on a thread about Wierwille's PFLAP (1967 filmed class)) cited the advanced class on what I refer to as PFLAP. In THAT class, so much verbal sleight of hand to make everyone afraid of it because of devil spirits. Well, hypnosis is MUCH less complicated than Wierwille led us to believe. From wikipedia: Now, according to such an explanation, it seems apparent that Wierwille used theatrics to induce a form of hypnosis in the "foundational" PFLAP class. Clearly, what we experienced in PFLAP wasn't overtly coercive (at least at first). We were left with the impression that we still had agency. But did we have a version of agency with significant constraints? Anyway, I should probably stop there.
    2 points
  20. It's one thing to get out of the way, and that's not easy, and another thing to get the way out of ourselves, a lot harder, I believe. As you know well, BecomingMe. It took me quite a few years of attacking this way thing in my head, before I think it was finally done. Looking at it now and from the past, I was battling myself, not someone else or some kind of god or devil. A lot of people helped, whether they know it or not. Mostly people from Greasespot, but others as well.
    2 points
  21. You know what killed that little boy? Well, I'll tell you. It was a 1939 Packard with a rumble seat.
    2 points
  22. Rocky, OldSkool, Waysider, WordWolf, T-Bone, Twinky ---- ALL of you are right. "Spiritual Goals" was (is) a nebulous, vague concept that wierwille injected into the twi-lexicon to coerce followers to the next higher level of twi-servitude. In its most basic form, having "spiritual goals" was OBEDIENCE TO WIERWILLE/TWI. Occam's razor ...... ie. the simplest answer is most generally right. Like Scientology, many groups have their own brand of "spiritual achievement." For reasons known by psychologists, people seem more motivated when there is a "level to climb" in front of them. Not only does it give the person personal satisfaction, but it broadcasts to others in the group that this person has reached another level. Like crabs in a bucket.... each one trying to climb over each other to get to the top. Wierwille stumbled along for decades until he grasped onto the three main "levels" that would define his ministry......1) staff, 2) advanced class grad, and 3) corps. The College Division group was short-lived......as was Fellow Laborers. IMO, wierwille did not promote fellow laborers, because it was state-run and did not involve headquarters. Thus, wierwille had no use for it. Here at GSC, we've discussed and dissected wierwille's attributes, characteristics, carnality and modus operandi thousands of times. But the reasons why wierwille built a pyramid-system (and all its trappings) and levels to scale this manufactured spirituality known at The Way International was because..... wierwille was a man of the flesh. Wierwille did NOT know God....in the biblical sense. Therefore, he tweaked around the edges and worked in the shadowy terrain of a deceiver.
    2 points
  23. I think if it has to do with what the way wants someone to do they attach "spiritual" to the concept. Spiritual partner comes to mind with the way corps...theres nothing spiritual about sending a ministry money to take care of someone while they are in twi custody.
    2 points
  24. This thread is pure gold!! The stories are simultaneously fascinating and horrifying. A request is tantamount to a command? Like a request for a foot rub? Or a request for fellatio? A request to abort an embarrassing and incriminating pregnancy? Bullsh¡t. (One might expect a logical evolution of paradigms from military general to athletic coach, especially after "Athletes of the Spirit." After all the effort to manufacture error in translation and interpretation in order to make it fit a carnal narrative, why not commit to the metaphor? I mean, a lot of creative and imaginative work went into changing what the text says to support the cringeworthy "Athletes of the Spirit." The fact is, Paul alternated between athletic and military metaphors - he used BOTH, and it's not a contradiction.) **Sorry. Athletes of the Spirit was a chunk of vomit stuck in my throat for some time. Had to get I out.
    2 points
  25. [While it is BS, it's not really ORIGINAL BS. In twi, the "Keys to Walking By the Spirit" included one that claimed that "Speaking in tongues daily is requisite to revelation." In other words, if you want revelation from God Almighty, you need to SIT first. The only explanation I ever heard of that was that, if you want God to speak to you, you should be speaking to Him. It's so obviously BS I wouldn't know where to start. People speak to God all the time, using a regular voice. People pray to God all the time, using a regular voice. People get revelation all the time, some of whom NEVER SIT. So, other than "that's what this group teaches," there's no reason to believe it. If you're going to follow lcm BLINDLY like he insisted on once, you'll swallow all of this nonsense without questioning it. There's always someone willing to go off a cliff with little justification.]
    2 points
  26. Since nobody said so outright, I'll say it so it's clear.... She's as welcome here as anyone else. Her posts are welcome, and if we can help her in some manner, we would like to.
    2 points
  27. Yep. Central. Fundamental. Foundational. His deeply profound insecurity may not be mentioned enough, but this quality is clearly evident in every letter to his early congregational off-shoot, every Corpse letter, and even in quotations attributed to him in POP. Though much of POP is spurious, the quotes showing his whiny insecurities are too embarrassing to be made up by a sycophant like Greer, they are an unintentional indictment of his narcissism.
    2 points
  28. Many of the more formal and higher church denominations begin a worship service with a procession into the church of clergy, acolytes, attendants and others involved in the service during the opening hymn. It is generally customary for the congregation to stand. That has been happening for over a thousand years The intent is not to honor the clergy but for the congregation to recognize and participate in the beginning of the worship service. I know hundreds of clergy from various denominations, this is the only instance that I can think of where someone is expected to stand “when clergy enters the room”.. I have no idea but it could partly be a bastardization and misinterpretation of that... but mostly i think it is due to overblown egos, and fragile sense of self importance
    2 points
  29. There's only two possibilities of that happening: Slim and none. And Slim is out of town.
    2 points
  30. Orlando, you say? Just imagine how great it would be if they could get their believing up to sign Mickey and the gang up for PFAL. Your next twig leader could be Goofy. Or was that your last twig leader? I'm so confused.
    1 point
  31. What light through yonder mindset breaks? A. Opening the fridge door, the little light comes – you see the fridge is empty – then it dawns on you that TWI forgot to pick up the fridge. B. A week later as the sun rises – you wake up on the hardwood floor – you had used the PFAL book as a pillow – and a few opened Way Magazines as covers. With the morning sunlight now flooding the empty room (even the red drapes were gone) you begin reviewing the PFAL book. Then it dawns on you – you shouldn’t have been so quick to send in your abundant sharing before paying the electric bill. C. That evening roused from a weird dream of attending PFAL ’77 for 10 years straight - you see bright headlights pull up in the driveway. Who could that be? Then it dawns on you – tonight you’re supposed to host a public ex for the new PFAL Today class. D. After awkwardly explaining on the fly to everyone there was a mix-up of your order at the Rooms-To-Go Outlet and coincidentally for some inexplicable reason there is an isolated power outage at your home – they all left - except for the new branch coordinator. Having the uncanny sense to realize your misfortune, he offers to move into your home and bless you with a lot of corps notes and select Advanced Class memorabilia. Then it dawns on you - maybe it’s a sign you should give him the house so you could go Way Ambassador.
    1 point
  32. TBA # 1 (T-Bone Analysis #1 ) so much to tackle...gotta start somewhere... thought I pick out this one - wierwille claimed that God would teach him how to get the error out of the work of others. this one is too easy...it's like he's setting me up for the kill shot why didn't God show wierwille the error of Bullinger's 4 crucified ?!?!?!?! It's been discussed in a lot of threads on Grease Spot Cafe - and excuse the shameless plug, I have a lot of detail on that on this particular post - here and yet reading further down in the transcript wierwille brags about teaching this doctrine of disinformation and all the folks who bought into it: what a shyster!!!! what an incompetent con artist!!!!! okay - someone remind me again why Mike wanted us to read this transcript...it's not helping his cause. I'm gonna go out on a limb here - I bet I'm better at remembering details about PFAL and Bullinger than most diehard wierwille fans. that's all for now -
    1 point
  33. Plagiarism is: a.) Against the law b.) unethical You can rationalize it 6 ways to Sunday if it makes you feel good. That won't change reality. "VPW's job was to collect these revelations God had given to Leonard and to many others and "put it all together." That's not what Wierwille told us... Something, something, snow on the gas pumps, something, not since the first century, something, etc. "There were items in VPW's teachings that were not in Leonard's teachings. There were items in Leonard's teachings that were NOT in VPW's teachings." This is completely irrelevant. (I'm just sayin'.) "He filtered out Leonard's errors for us." That filter must have been broken. There are lots of documented errors scattered through PFAL. One would think God would be a little more careful to fact check His revelations before He gave them. "Ten years later he finally sees the whole 1968 class." So, you're telling me that in the years between 1967 and 1977 he never bothered to look at the original taping? Not even to approve the final edit? Know anybody that has a bridge for sale? You know what killed that little boy? His head exploded from trying to squeeze all this irrational nonsense into it. He scrapped the remake because he realized he couldn't replicate the theatrics of the original.
    1 point
  34. Moon Pies are a staff of life...without Moonpies there would be no happiness and wihthout happiness there would be no Moonpies.
    1 point
  35. Hey Oldies, Not sure if this will fit the bill but you could try it and see: 1. Sign in and click on Notifications icon at top near the right side – it looks like a bell. 2. When the Notifications window opens up – click on the Notification settings at top right. 3. Look at the listing and choose the notifications you would like. good luck
    1 point
  36. This actually is only half of the problem. The other half is that feelings of inferiority were instilled in non-Corps folk, who were taught to look up to Corps as founts of all "spiritual" knowledge and understanding. And that probably started right from the first PFAL class anyone took. "Save your questions till the last session, and then ask." By which time, you'd been browbeaten over many sessions by so many "helpers" to think that some other person had all the answers.
    1 point
  37. Rocky, to make yourself vulnerable like that says a lot about an inner strength you must now have…I’ve read that when a broken bone is set properly, it will tend to heal so thoroughly it will become stronger than it was before the fracture. You, like so many other Grease Spotters have a powerful secret weapon that the enemy (a harmful and controlling cult) usually doesn’t see coming and doesn’t know how to counter it. it’s a triple “threat” of honesty, humility, and love. When we love, it is a big risk. We open ourselves up to potential harm – the other person could take advantage of that…and in a worst-case scenario they could break our heart. I can relate to a lot of the things you said as I reflect on how I treated my family during my 12 years of TWI involvement. By nature, I am a workaholic anyway. when that’s combined with having any kind of leadership role in TWI (which was for most of that 12 years) I had very little energy and time leftover for my family. I subscribed to TWI’s familial-wrecking-machination Put God, The Word, The Ministry first and everything else will take care of itself. It’s taken me some 36 years to reprioritize stuff in my life that has to do with family, friends, and goals – I’m still working on it. But at least I’ve got a bead on what’s truly important.
    1 point
  38. Or he remains in denial. She said he attended counseling sessions only because they were mandated or obligatory but never embraced the exercise. Therapy can lead to real awakening and liberation, but it requires acceptance and a willingness to look honestly at oneself. Until then, he has no new light to shine. No light at all. None. It's his free will choice to remain in darkness.
    1 point
  39. I've met her in person. She's real and her posts are authentic.
    1 point
  40. That BS started with VP and I can't speak to how much of a demand he put on his followers simply because I wasn't involved in TWI until 96. However, the following example shows how insane all of it became over time: I had been running snow removal crews at HQ since 4:30am and it was a particularly bad storm so we were battered from the elements as well as the long hours. I took a break around 1:30-2pm in the afternoon...literally my first time stopping since 4:30am. I went into my office and was sitting there with a shell shocked feeling I was trying to shake, when Rosalie walked into my office unexpectedly. I was shocked she was standing there and I greeted her very respectfully but forgot to stand. Before she soke to me she motioned me out of my chair and onto my feet before she would even talk. I think that about says it all.
    1 point
  41. Insecurity... isn't that central to narcissism? Btw, standing for Wierwille and Martindale entering rooms highlights the bass ackward social nature of the cult. I wonder if Jesus expected people to stand when he entered. Hmmm... oh, that's right, he washed the feet of his disciples, didn't he? Did Victor ever do that? Not that I go along with the Catholic church, but Pope Francis washed/washes people's feet.
    1 point
  42. Good post, Nathan! And this one line of yours is a gem: If one has to whine about others standing for him, one doesn't deserve the gesture of respect. Whining about such a thing tips one's hand to one's illegitimacy. What immediately came to mind was wierwille always demanding everyone address him as “Doctor”.
    1 point
  43. When I began to use some newly found critical thinking skills to look at the teaching of TWI and the Bible, things turned topsy-turvy for me. As my unravelling went, I became aware that the indoctrination of TWI had limited my thinking in awful ways but wasn't exactly sure how. The last point and next to the last point above spoke loudly to me. Thx, T-Bone. Seems that VPW's attitude was incorporated into those early corpse real well because of all the close, personal contact they had with him. That episode with DWBH was similar to one I had with a 3rd corpse, KF. It was early summer 1974 and after 2 months of reading the Gospels solo ( I had started on my own in the evenings at 19 years old in my quest for the Truth) I was ready and yearned for fellowship. An old friend came into town and we went to a Twig. I loved it! And best of all, they were teaching from the Bible. I was learning as fast as I could and loved it. But the control mechanisms had already started to be put into place- the first was "Be on time." Sometime later on in July we had a Limb meeting at the Limb home in my city. There were about 30 of us there, and we were all seated in folding chairs that were all lined up. KF walked in and got behind the little podium, and some people stood up but most did not including me. I was really happy to be there and innocent and wide open and KF proceeded to reprove us for 10 minutes for not respecting the word of god that he represented so stand up next time. I felt terrible. I was devastated. I had not meant to insult God. Here I was all happy and KF terrorized us. I can't believe I submitted to that garbage. Thx and Peace.
    1 point
  44. Sorry to hear this. Endeavoring to make sense of the evil fraud that is vpw and twi can trigger trauma responses that are as malignant as the crimes suffered - the persistent rotting fruit. It's a trap. I do pray, and I will.
    1 point
  45. I wonder if you can stretch the rules for me. I was apprentice 14th Corps but I got dropped by LCM before I went in resi because he wanted to shag my girlfriend who was in res. I guess he thought he had a better chance if I wasn't around. Broke my heart, by the way. So sue me Loy, you piece of sh1 t.
    1 point
  46. Yes Mark with an extreme fundamentalist view people think of themselves as equal to Jesus Christ because they are thinking about scripture. I remember that doctrine taught clearly in the foundational and renewed mind classes. This really twists up the transitive aspect of equality into something as illogical as the Catholics believing that bread and wine literally turns into body and blood. I guess my progression away from fundamentalism has me focus on the relationship and lifestyle of Christ as opposed to illogical juxtapositioning of myself as god because my opinion lines up with some interpretation.
    1 point
  47. This thread is rapidly becoming one of my favorite! Wonderfully heartfelt, HONEST, and well-articulated firsthand experience, personal courage, and transparency for all to respect and enjoy. Thank you all. Keep it going!
    1 point
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