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Hello. Have a seat. Feel free to look around. If you're new, you'll be shocked at some of the opinions, but there's few opinions universally held here. We disagree with each other about a lot of things, and find the discussions to be healthy. If all you're used to is twi or twi-lite, that may be a whole new experience, or even a shocking experience. Take it at your own pace. BTW, most of us may hold strong opinions- but that doesn't mean our lives revolve around them, or that we're very emotional about them. There are differences.

Without going into too much detail, Satan is the Biblical enemy. And what does he represent? Evil? Lies? Sure. But what else? Questions. What was Eve's first mistake? Questions. Considering a view other than the one dictated to her. Curiosity is the enemy of religion. Resistance is the enemy of nationalism. Defiance is the enemy of the slaveholder. To be clear: I do not worship Satan. He is as imaginary as the God who put the tree of knowledge in the same garden as the man and woman whose consumption of its fruit would lead to eons of unnecessary suffering. Satan is religion's way of telling the skeptical theirs are not questions but unholy influences. I worship neither your imaginary friend nor your imaginary enemy.

Hey everyone, I’ve been looking at this site for years and decided to join. I was raised in The Way and just left in 2017, with my husband who was also raised in The Way. We left after seeing the deep corruption and evil within the organization, and after becoming Christians within 24 hours of each other. We have found true freedom and healing over the past 2 years in getting to know Jesus as our God, and though our families have rejected us, have found an amazing family within our church community. Both my husband and I desire to help those who are struggling with leaving The Way, and who are struggling with doing the brain surgery required to unravel all of the lies. We have been able to maintain our faith through this process, and actually understand what “freedom in Christ” means. Personally, I am still working through a variety of issues resulting from my upbringing (both from TWI and a rough parent situation). Counseling and inner healing ministry have been incredibly helpful, and I am hopeful that with time, I will be completely free. Our prayer is to see The Way die completely, and we pray for healing to those who have left but still hold onto the harmful beliefs that the cult teaches its followers. So many people leave TWI but are never truly free from it. My husband and I are available if anyone has questions, or if you are hurting and need a friend who understands what you’re going through.

Hello, Norbetow. Welcome to the Café. Little bit quiet at the moment, but wait till one or two people come through the door, and start throwing things at each other, LOL. Meantime, have a coffee and a cake.

Hey wonderful reply-ers, perhaps you will see this response made over a year after your kind responses?! Do appreciate them!! ( Maybe my Trust-o-Meter is functioning well enough that I can now return here to GSC and interact more... This past week I have had several marathons in which I read lots here; so helpful to see various POVs, individual ways of processing, different folks' experiences, and DWBH's posts re: restorative justice and not sweeping abuses under the rug.) Again, thank you SO MUCH for keeping this site up and running bros and sis's!! God bless!!

Yes. My point is that it (for those who may prefer not to anthropomorphize the concept) is imaginary. For the record, I'm not atheistic nor agnostic. But if I was, I'd lean toward agnostic. I prefer Deist. IT is more than religion's way of keeping skeptical influences suppressed (or trying to do so anyway). As Einstein posited, imagination is very powerful... or at least more important than knowledge. What got me thinking about this was the fact that tribal conflict seems to have been around since early humans. Or, at least since history was first recorded, which seems to me to predate the Judeo-Christian tradition. So, being curious, I asked myself... I said, "Self, why is that?" Clearly, I'm not capable of answering that question with any sort of authoritative knowledge. But I can imagine. I can wonder. And I can at least do some rudimentary and superficial research.

Okay Guys and Gals.......it's been over two years, so where do you stand? If you STILL want to "restore this ministry".......then you STILL uphold the authoritarian style of dictatorship from wierwille. Right? So, you STILL opine for "restoration".................is that because YOU want a pyramid structure like the one wierwille instigated? How do you justify the "restoration" part..........since it's not literal towards twi, is it the *ideology* of wierwille doctrine and thought? Yet, you are NO LONGER CORPS.......................because you left twi and abandoned your corps commitment. Wierwille spoke plainly on this. All of the corps letters from 1977-1982............detail this specifically. Over and over again. You cannot "serve wierwille" and abandon his beloved spiritual headquarters and ministry.......he called all those who left cop-outs. Others, too, like John Lynn..........publically stated, loud and proud, that he "thought wierwille would be proud of him for his stance." NOPE. Wierwille was vehemently adamant that ANYONE WHO LEFT HIM OR TWI.......was walking into darkness and the night of the soul. Do you STAND with what wierwille taught........or don't you?

Actually, my point in bringing that up was to note that the vast majority of Christians believe hyperdispensationalism is inaccurate and ungodly. You have to question the legitimacy of an interpretational framework that eluded all Christianity from 70 AD until the 1800s. Dispensationalism, and especially hyperdispensationalism, cannot be supported Biblically unless you bend over backwards to force the Bible to say things it just doesn't say. Things like "Jesus never told the 12 to go to the Gentiles" when he did exactly that. Regardless, I find it interesting that you don't post O'Hair's analysis or his findings. Just his namecalling. It's the kind of behavior I would expect from someone who lacked confidence in his position and so wants to cut the other side down with insults. Surely you have a better argument than a long dead namecaller whose position has been rejected by mainstream Christianity.

That topic belong somewhere else. edit: regarding dispensations/ dispensationalism.

Hi Waykid and multiple blessings to you and yours. I't's great that you have found 'release from your prisons' and you can look forward to an enjoyable hodos ! ( Bear in mind not everyone here has thrown out all of twi's belief system, i.e. Jesus being Son of God and not God the Son !! ) love n blessings

Hello Waykid. Hello, and welcome. I don't know if you, and your husband know Leah, LCM's oldest child. She has posted a few times here, and I find her posts very interesting, and informative. I joined TWI decades decades ago, and left after 10 years. At one time, I truly thought kids raised in TWI, were truly blessed. I thought they didn't have to go through all the S--t I did growing up in an unhappy home. Wow!! Was I ever wrong!!! I know that many of you kids growing up in Way World, had serious issues with drugs, and alcohol, among other problems. Not all of course, but some did. I could go on, and list more of the S--t, some of you kids went through, but I think you know about this, than I do. I am so happy that you, and your husband left TWI, and found a church that works for you!! God bless both of you!!

Thanks Raf, it was a mistake for me to post under the mod name.. complete brain fart. So yeah I go to both the Novus Ordo Mass and also the Traditional Latin Mass, and guess what I do most during those? You guess it, SIT.

Welcome aboard. Raspberry scones are the special today.

Those who intentionally hide and dismiss wierwille's plagiarism, research foibles, and sexual predation AND have made it their business to lord over others.........THOSE SPLINTER GROUPS are worse! At the starting gate of splintering from twi, they are hypocrites before God and man.

It's like herpes. It never really goes away.

Ummm... Pamdalarryum, I was a military wow for two years while an airman (1975-Aug 1977). Stationed at Lajes Field, Azores. Otherwise, more or less unremarkable. I did go to Germany twice to meet with Limb coordinators (Simmons) once in Munster I think it was, and once for an advance where veepee showed up. The most memorable event was going to the sauna in the hotel and one of the young women there was completely naked. Also met a guy (Caucasian) that had spent some time witnessing in Teheran, Iran. He had interesting travel stories. But since it was more than 40 years ago, that's pretty much all the detail I can recall.

Ok, here goes. I grew up mostly at HQ - not in the frying pan; in the fire. The standards for children there were ridiculous. Basically, be perfect. Listen, remember, obey. Be a good example. Don’t be a stumbling block. Dress appropriately. Speak respectfully. Don’t be angry. Don’t be sad, be thankful. I watched some kids, especially as teenagers, become angry and rebellious. Others, like me, became as compliant and people-pleasing as a person could possibly be. I was complimented often on my “meekness.” In childhood, this meant a rather controlled atmosphere. As a teenager, it was absolutely suffocating. I’m now well into middle age, and I find that I have very little sense of self. The mental work I’m doing now is mostly about separating my “cult self” from my “authentic self” (as Steven Hassan labels it in Combatting Cult Mind Control) - I also think of it as new man vs. old man with the new man being false behaviors smothering my real personality. I’ve always thought I had pretty good self esteem. I realize now I feel fine about my cult self - being disciplined, keeping things clean, being a high achiever, serving others to the detriment of self. I have a deep self-loathing for that hidden authentic self that isn’t “perfect” - is spontaneous, joyful, sexual, angry, free, artistic, childlike, grieving. It’s taken months of counseling, thinking, reading, and agonizing just to realize this. Still working on how to let it out. Another part of growing up that still affects me is hyper-vigilance about “danger.” The idea that the devil was out to get us; and if you are “out of alignment and harmony” you’ll be outside of God’ protection; and we were taught that people we knew had DIED because they didn’t follow their schedules or didn’t follow their leadership’s advice; this adds up to a brain trained to be alert to the smallest inconsistencies in the environment (PTSD). Then put in the strong imagery of Athletes of the Spirit. My friends and I were obsessed with it. We learned the seed of the serpent dance and would argue over who got to be her and which devil spirits we got to be. That imagery was so strong for our young minds. Taking the advanced class made it even more vivid and more urgent. Then, if you were at HQ in the 90s, you remember lunch time. LCM would talk for hours every week sometimes, lecturing about the things God was “showing him” or about how we all needed to be so vigilant or about people - telling their personal lives and struggles to everyone and talking about how the “adversary” had gotten into their lives and how devil spirits were infiltrating their minds. Is it any wonder I was terrified to drink? To try drugs? That has seemed like a good thing to me for a long time, but I now realize I was so constrained by fear that the mere idea of losing control sends me into a near panic. It wasn’t good. And along with all that came the underlying belief that if I wasn’t all those “good” things - a strong disciple, believing positively, behaving according to the Word, doing what my spiritual overseers told me to do, blah blah blah - I wouldn’t be loved. Discipline of children was so strongly emphasized (and LCM criticized parents so heavily) that as a child, I subconsciously picked up that I wasn’t good enough and wasn’t lovable if I wasn’t right in line. Now, as a parent, I really do think at least my mother loved me unconditionally, and she told me that when I left the way. I have a lot of family left in the way. I stay anonymous because of it. Still afraid of losing their love over my “disobedience.” I guess posting here is one way for me to push back and not allow myself to be silenced, even if I’m not fully out there. Baby steps. In a lot of ways I was lucky. I went to college instead of going Wow or Way Disciple right away. I of course wanted to go in the corps - because how else were you really somebody? - but was lucky enough to get through college and realize I didn’t want to do that. I spent my 20s wading through all the doctrines I tried so hard to keep believing in, but I just couldn’t get them to make sense with real life. I rejected them. And didn’t realize the mess all this has made of my psyche. I was a true believer. I did the things you were supposed to do. I toed the line. I put my heart and soul into it. And all I got was this broken spirit.

I would like to point out, for new arrivals, that being a Christian is not a requirement of this site. People from a wide variety of belief systems and those with no belief system at all are equally welcome here. This public service announcement has been brought to you by the makers of.......

Just to be clear............in the cult, and especially the corps indoctrination program, the leaders jumped back and forth from the new testament to the old testament..... picking and highlighting whatever verses fit the agenda. So......a prophet speaks FOR THE LORD. And......if the thing follow NOT, he is not to be respected (revered). Quite the opposite. ~~~~~~ Deu 18:18 - I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. Deu 18:19 - And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deu 18:20 - But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. Deu 18:21 - And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? Deu 18:22 - When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. ~~~~~~~~ Oh, the irony..........that wierwille died in 4 years, dropping dead on his own in the time frame of his false prophecy. .

Yeah, Twinky..............at least I got to spend some special weekends and quality time with my Dad his last 10 years and 17 years with Mom. And, I got to see first-hand and up-close how a false prophet does his sleight-of-hand magic. Pppffftt.

Hey annio, Welcome to the 'Spot. I like your post. Sound logic always beats blindly following humans with good intentions. Have a cup o joe.

Oh, I see elsewhere you said 14 years in TWI and 18 years with Geer. That's a lot of baggage. You won't unpack it all at once, but you'll do it much quicker here than on your own. We know what you've been through, and you can "vent" here. It is wonderful to enjoy the peace that passes understanding, and to learn to be quiet with the Lord and just enjoy his company. You don't have to do, you just have to be. The Lord welcomes you with open arms. He promises you freedom. He paid the price for your freedom. Enjoy a walk in the park with him. Or a beer in the pub.

Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels. And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it. Faith in God and Jesus Christ is the Way to go, annio, and your personal realization of that is real and profound. Savor it. Own it! It's yours. Sometimes the work we need to do most is to remove the barriers we and others put up that obscure the path we're to follow, the Way of Jesus Christ our Savior. The good news is that God draws us all to Himself through Christ. The change you seek can only be good. I heard something last week that's stuck with me and I'll share it with you - it was the statement that "to believe in Jesus Christ is to believe that you're forgiven"....that the fundamental foundational thing that God wants us to do is to come to Christ and know that forgiveness, His grace and mercy, that finally we are at peace with Him by doing nothing more than accepting the peace He offers directly to us. I've been thinking about that this week when I pray and it feels...."good". Really good. All the best to you - there's a song by a band named Dawes, titled "A Little Bit of Everything" and the final verse captures another idea I'd share with you and that is to enjoy the life God has given you! Every bit of it, to it's fullest. I believe we witness to God's magnificence as Creator when we make everything we can of the life he's given us. Peace! "All these psychics and these doctorsThey're all right and they're all wrong.It's like trying to make out every wordWhen they should simply hum along.It's not some message written in the darkOr some truth that no one's seenIt's just a little bit of everything." (Taylor Goldsmith)

Adding to the "wierwille bloodline" discussion.... The following quote was pulled from the tread: To The Very End....Wierwille's Wantonness Donnie had no public speaking prowess.... Martindale was to keep "running the money and politics of twi"..... So, all that 1982 installment of the next "man of gawd".....the anointing of oil, the symbolic placing of the mantle on martindale, the prayer and prophecy over him, the public vow to support him......ALL FOR PUBLIC CONSUMPTION AND DECEPTION ??? Waiting for what??......the wierwille grandson (Luke S.) to fill the wierwille dynasty? Donnie never measured up to the old man's persona and prowess....so the whole of twi is in a "holding pattern" circling around the spiritual epicenter of the wierwille homestead waiting for the wierwille grandson to grow up? So......of the thousands of corps grads who "sat at the feet of the master" NONE were qualified to fill wierwille's shoes? If Donnie couldn't lead.... If Martindale was a placeholder.... If Geer-man was unacceptable.... If Walter didn't measure up.... If Lynn, Finnegan, Burton, Clark, etc. didn't have it..... What the hell were any of us being "trained" for??? Riiiight. Wait for the wierwille bloodline to course thru twi once again via the grandson whose parents didn't even stand with wierwille. :anim-smile:/>/> .

Ahh, you are right Belle, Bodie G....... He was Mr. Bliss' best friend in the Family Corps. We haven't talked with him in years.............prob since 97. He'd like to know where he's at also.