Nathan_Jr

Like the Oral Robert's sermon?

Yes

So good!

I don't think there is a scripture that mentions five days. It's arbitrary, like one or two days. The implication is that one or two days of survival is enough to get the slave owner off the hook, after that (five days, two weeks...), if the slave dies from the wounds, well, too bad -- the only loss is the slave owner's money. Only need to ensure your sex slave survives one or two days.

Like beating your slave to within an inch of her life is righteous, as long as that inch carries her life through day two post beating. Let her die from her wounds on day five.

What I'm saying is what I've said many times: The one claiming to speak for God is surely the one who does not.

There is wisdom in the Bible, for sure. There are ideas worth contemplating, meditating on. There are beautiful turns of phrase, poetry. But It's not the only contemplative book of wisdom, ancient or modern, worth reading.

All I know is that he was sent by God. How do I know this? Paul himself says so of himself. He said it, that settles it, I believe it.

Yeah, well, mogadishu rafa calamari peshwari naan. I would that you all SIT as much as I do. He said Jesus sits at the right hand of God. God is sitting next to his seated son, Jesus. Neither needs to stop working at any time. They can work while sitting. Neither requires rest because neither gets tired, probably because they are sitting. Though God and Christ are absent, take comfort in knowing that they are sitting down

I look forward to Raf's answer, but I just want to say, what if you're right? Consider letting go of this sinister, manipulative dilemma. This is possible: The freedom, the liberty, to look clearly at anything, unencumbered by forgone conclusions and beleefs.

You might read WordWolf’s excellent treatment of Genesis 1 in the Doctrinal forum. I may have misunderstood him or didn’t read it carefully the first time, but my takeaway is that evolution is not incompatible with creationism.

I know she doesn’t believe in hell. Not sure what she thinks about heaven other than she doesn’t see it as a geographical destination. I know she believes life is eternal and death is powerless and Christ Jesus proved it. She doesn’t feel obligated to witness. Maybe she sees her life as a witness. I don't think she believes she can make anyone see what she sees. Again, she sees it as a personal journey for each and everyone. But she’s a universalist, so she believes everyone, eventually, will come to the truth. I thought Matthew was Old Testament written TO the Jews, according to TWI. How could the Great Commission apply to anyone other than the eleven disciples, who were dirty Judeans, according to TWI? There’s probably a glove for that.

I missed this part. No. I don’t think she is striving to believe anything. I don’t think she sees God as being displeased. Again, for her, it goes back to Genesis chapter 1 as foundational. God saw everything that he had made. And it was very good.

She's not at all burdened by sin. Church? Not really. I'm sure she would be considered a heretic or something like that by some here. She doesn't talk about her faith unless asked, even then, sparingly. She doesn't evangelize. She doesn't talk about or judge others’ religious beliefs, even when she disagrees. She sees it all as very personal and private. She has two best friends since childhood. She talks to them daily. Amazing love and loyalty among them. One is Methodist, the other Episcopalian.

My mother is a devout Christian. She walks with tremendous peace, compassion, grace and power. I've witnessed her receive countless healings and revelations. She is not a proseltizer/evangelizer. She is not a fundamentalist inerrantist. She knows God isn't in the publishing business and didn't write the books of the Bible. Genesis chapter one is foundational to her theology/philosophy. Chapter 2 on, not so much.

Horrendous. Yes, indeed. I'm not a Jew. I'm not subject the wrath of the Jewish god. (Nor are they.) Nor will I be manipulated by a Pharisee like Paul that simply beleeeving what he says will save me from the horrendous acts of the god of Abram.

Do you likewise think that serpent is perfect? Or when and how is it that fallen creature excluded? And if everything is perfect... why do you suppose God gave instructions to the man to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Did evil already exist at the time of this instruction... or didn't it? Can this be explained?"and that we needed a savior" Saved from what? "Do you likewise think that serpent is perfect? Or when and how is it that fallen creature excluded? And if everything is perfect... why do you suppose God gave instructions to the man to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Did evil already exist at the time of this instruction... or didn't it? Can this be explained?" Good questions, but presumptive. It's a different author, a different god, a different creation myth. In the first creation story, chapter one, El saw that ALL he made was very good - ALL without exception or distinction, whichever you prefer.

You skipped 3:9. “And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?” Really?? Lord God can’t see them?

Sure. Of course. Paul’s letters and the epistles of the apostolic fathers and I’m sure other lettres that are long gone. In some churches 1 & 2 Clement were read as scripture alongside the gospels and Paul. I’m making a point about the To/For Bullingerism. Hey, it’s a novel, systematic theology contrived in the 19th century. If it helps, go with it, but I find it to be narrow, shortsighted, and un inspired.

Paul wasn’t writing TO you, either. He was writing TO members of his ekklesia in Thessalonika, Galatia, Corinth, Phillipi…

There are two creation myths in the Bible: Genesis 1–2:3; Genesis 2:3–… Inerrantists do not or will not see it. And that’s just fine. But it’s not hard to see. The language and style are different. The gods are different - El and Yahweh El. The first describes a perfect creation, the second describes a carnal, corrupted creation.

Fair observations. When one steps back to take an unfiltered look at it, the absurdity gets pretty gnarly. And, careful, that five-fingered glove won’t fit that twelve-fingered hand. I always wondered: what am I being saved from?

No. The whole point is to value this life, to be alive. Gracefully. With compassion. Where is heaven? Above? In the sky? How do you know where or what this heaven is? What will you do there? Show off your rewards? Demonstrate what an obedient slave you are? Jesus said, “If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.” And a few related quotes from Henry Miller, “Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.” “The moment one gives close attention to any thing, even a blade of grass it becomes a mysterious, awesome, indescribably magnificent world in itself.” “The aim of life is to live, and to live means to be aware, joyously, drunkenly, serenely, divinely aware.”

“….all the social advantages there are in being in a cult.” What could ever be said to someone who beleeeves this? It is daunting to even imagine the level of delusion required, yet, I see it and read about it every day. Very, very sad.

The juice is dead.