Nathan_Jr

Charlene, did the girl give you any indication that her mother eventually woke up to realize she had been used and abused by a fraud? Or does her mother still believe that victor paul wierwille was a man of god?

Oldies, will you please clarify? What, exactly, was powerful?

Go back where? To New Knoxville?

Mmmph

Matt 23:9 (KJV) And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Mmmph

I'm not saying I'm raising him to be an atheist or a Christian or a Buddhist or an adherent to any ideology. He knows if he wants to talk about any of it, I'm here to talk about it. I hope I'm raising him to be curious, inquisitive, thoughtful, kind, compassionate, generous, respectful, diligent, honest, accountable. I hope. I tell him if he wants to find out about God, gods or no gods, he can find out for himself. I tell him if he wants to find out if there is that which is eternal and unnameable, he can find out about that, too.

Maybe they WOULD be free to inquire, free to find out. ------ This topic hit hard for me recently. It's an issue that I've been concerned about for years. My son, 14, has been forced to go to Wierwillian fellowship his entire life. I've tried to imagine how the deprogramming will go when the time comes. Would it be hard? Would he M&A me? We have never talked about God, religion, belief. I've never brought it up, nor has he. Until two weeks ago. He told me his mother says an administrator at his school is or has or a devil spirit. I immediately yelled, "BULLS HIT!" Since he brought it up, I seized the opportunity correct his indoctrination, but he stopped me mid speech with a raised hand and said, "Dad! I know! Don't worry. I know it's bulls hit." He then let out a long, hard belly laugh at the absurdity of it all. I wept tears of relief and gratitude. He asked me why I was crying. "Joy, Son," I said. "Tears of joy." Last week we were going over some vocabulary and spelling. The word was pneumonia, I think. I casually remarked this should be easy to remember, "Because Greek...pneuma hagion... same stem...means breath...you hear that phrase every Sunday, right?" He replied, "Oh, I don't know... I've never heard that... but I don't pay attention at fellowship. I'm usually sleeping with my eyes open." Again, I wept. He then asked me when he can stop going to fellowship. I told him whenever he wants. Everyone has a devil spirit. Even rap music is devil spirit, so says his mom. We laugh about how everyone and everything is devil spirit every day now. It's our inside joke. I'm laughing and weeping tears of joyous relief even as I type this.

Right. Fair. It seems to me forgiving those who know not what they do is rather easy. Like forgiving a wild animal or pet. But what about those who know exactly what they are doing? Let them repent? Sure. Let them.

Well said. I don't think anyone MUST do ANYTHING. One may forgive or not. It's entirely the prerogative of the harmed. Manipulation by dogmatic doctrine doesn't make the forgiveness righteous and genuine. I don't think compelled forgiveness is forgiveness at all. Never again will I be manipulated into forgiving anyone. It's my business. It's my heart. Forgiveness is for the forgiver. Forgiveness may free one from angst, or it may not. There are other ways to let go.

I can’t do your repenting, and you can’t do my forgiving.

See? That’s how it works. Simple. One coin. Two sides. Freedom.

We are talking about forgiveness and the forgiver and the forgiven and absolution and resentment and responsibility and letting go and… Repentance Sincere regret or remorse; a change of mind or purpose… a change within spurred by deep regret or remorse. This change, this repentance, will be self evident. It will be seen. It will be obvious. It will not require belief. One may have legitimate doubts about an offender’s apology, especially if it is no sincere apology at all, but it’s a manipulative dodge. And the apology may appear or sound sincere, especially to the good-hearted offended who wants to forgive. Anyone ever in a relationship with an NPD has heard these apologies seven times a day for 7000 consecutive days — they are mere hollow, empty platitudes. How can you know if someone is truly repentant? They will be changed in their heart and word and deed, they will live this change, and this change will be seen by all.

I remember this blog post. Funny to see the comment from Robert. Is this postcard a new one? Different from the hilarious "Time to come home?" Has anyone else received a postcard recently? Robert Lunsford September 30, 2023 | Reply Last week, I received a post card from The Way, suggesting I investigate “the new Way” ministry. Given I hadn’t heard from them in thirty years, and was blackballed after refusing to submit, branded a heretic, mark and avoid, etc, I found it curious they would reach out with a snail mail. My first thought, they must be hurting for cash. Since Wierwille taught our first thoughts are revelation, I must be right! I drove by New Knoxville last week on my annual Ohio trip to Put In Bay, and wondered how they still support the place. Worse, how people still buy into their shtick. Given their post card to me, apparently not many are. Congrats on the anniversary of your book, it’s been so meaningful to many. All the best!

Looks like a groovy scene. And the music sounds good. I sense that these kids were doing just fine by themselves and among themselves. This was definitely my vibe in my late teens and early twenties. Too bad victor had to destroy it. Who is the preacher teacher in the opening 3 minutes? I love how victor contradicts himself at 4:50.