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  2. Whatever happened to the story of taking all his books (without exception or distinction) to the dump or the burn pit or whatever? I thought victor's ONLY source was his god and the post-first century Bible? Real question. Not a gotcha. Just trying to fit it all together. You know, like a hand...
  3. Would you be surprised to know that some rise above the error in their PFAL and TWI to have great joy, abundance and power?
  4. Mike: It looks to me that if I am right, that thousands of old grads ARE still being blessed by the collaterals, that would be pretty bad news to some posters here. T-Bone: take note of a nonsensical phrasing by Mike that displays the silliness of his argument using the word “if” which introduces a conditional clause; in other words, on the condition of, or supposition, or assumption that, or in the event that…now, rearranging his statement into a more normal manner of speaking that doesn’t try to hide his bias and logical fallacies, Mike’s statement could be understood in an Amplified translation Blue Letter Edition (de-obfuscated words of Mike in Blue) as: “On my assumption [or without an honest and accurate quantifying/qualifying polling/survey basis thereby thumbing my nose at experts in the preparation and analysis of statistics, i.e., statisticians] after pulling an impressive sounding number out of my a$$, what I see through my wierwille-colored glasses is that some Grease Spotters are not impressed over my battles with windmills.”
  5. Today
  6. Yes. I'm well aware. This should be obvious to anyone who cares to find out. I like this topic. I have changed my positions on many beleefs, doctrines. Ideas, claims, assertions, and opinions throughout my life. One can't beleeve one's way to knowing. Beleeving involves clutching, clinging. Embracing the not-knowing, letting go, frees one to know anything at all. One must be WILLING to admit one is wrong or mistaken or deluded. There is great freedom and power in this openness to truth. So, has TWI changed and corrected their positions on four crucified and lama sabachthani in PFALT? These two corrections would be excellent baby steps into the light of a new dawn. I wonder if anyone can answer the question.
  7. The Aramaic interlinear that twi published showed the changed position- it was written as a question. Lamsa was never the expert in Palestinian Aramaic of the first century as he would hold forth- so his claim that this "would never" have been written as a question was without merit. As a rhetorical question, it carries the same meaning Lamsa wanted to claim- and accurately reflects the text. Other than that book showing the correct translation, I'm unaware of twi actually correcting anything, and I don't know what they say if someone asks. I DO know they tend to get very defensive if asked about things where someone has to admit even a small mistake, so I think the official policy is still "launch a personal attack on anyone who asks about this, and get evasive as to the actual answer." That's the experience most people got when asking about obvious errors, whether corrected or otherwise.
  8. OldSkool: "Now flip the script and imagine how bad Mike would freak out if someone plagaraized wierwille and took his materials, rebranded them, claimed ownership, and claimed God almighty had chosen him over everone else incliding wierwille over the past 2000 years to teach all of it because it hadn't been known since the apostle Paul. " Mike: "I would rejoice if others heard the same truths, re-branded, and were in the same heavenly family with us. You have no idea how I think. That is because you are not willing to listen to me. You only look for ammunition in my words that you can shoot at me. " WordWolf responds: Mike, you've previously commented how it was a big deal how the pfal book copyrights had to be respected. You've made a big deal about ideas that lauded vpw to the skies and made a big deal about him getting all the credit to which you feel he is entitled. That's how you've claimed you thought PREVIOUSLY. Have you changed positions? It sounds like you have, but haven't told us- and blame us for thinking you're still holding your PREVIOUS position. We listened to you before and understood. Your insistence that people only read your posts for ammunition is unrealistic. It doesn't reflect reality. This is hardly news by now.
  9. Did TWI ever change it's position on four crucified? I think I remember Charlene once writing she and others discovered through research that Llamsa's and victor's claim about "lama sabachthani" was inaccurate. Sound mind following the evidence wherever it would lead resulted in discarding the previous held erroneous position. Did TWI ever correct their position on this, according to the evidence?
  10. Mike: "I purposely do not copyright my writing, even my comedy and science and hippie-history writing. I think I do this for the same reason VPW never copyrighted the SNT teaching tapes, and the film class. I never saw a copyright notice in the film class until aroung 1982, and I was the Branch AV guy for many years. I am into the ideas." WordWolf responds. vpw made sure there were copyright notices on every book his "American Christian Press" printed, especially when it was materials with his name on them- allegedly with vpw as the author, as they said. vpw was very interested in asserting his copyrights on all of them. So, there's a disconnect. Why did vpw make sure ALL the print stuff had a copyright, but the audio tapes/ video tapes did not- until later? There's basically 3 possibilities. 1) vpw had some complicated reason where the completed, edited books should not be reproduced, but the tapes, often off-the-cuff, were supposed to be fair game for copying and that was actually intentional. 2) vpw had no idea that audio-video materials, like printed materials, were subject to copyright and could have/should have had copyrights asserted for them, whereas with the books, he'd known that for many decades. 3) God Almighty, for reasons known only to Him, told vpw to copyright everything in print from American Christian Press, but told vpw to leave copyright off of the audio tapes/ video tapes. I think the answer is obvious to ALMOST everyone. Mind you, if the whole intention was to inject pfal into the public by making it public domain, it was incredibly inconsistent because the collaterals had copyright from the beginning, so the printed pfal books were NEVER in the public domain. So, God Almighty was inconsistent in that, or vpw was inconsistent in that, or that was never the intention. I think the answer is obvious to ALMOST everyone.
  11. I got to thinking about this with one poster, but, really, this thread is fair game for posters to post that they've changed previously-held positions, or left previous positions, or abandoned previously-held positions, and so on. So, it's open for all posters. However, I was thinking about all of this because of a specific poster. So, I shall get specific. Mike, you've previously held a number of positions on things that you may have changed or reversed. In the interest of finding out if we now agree on them, I'm asking for you outright IF you've changed positions, and, if so, on what you've changed. I've included a few examples I'm curious about, things you've previously espoused but may no longer claim. -vpw was "born with an overabundance of brains and brawn", was "OVERgifted", and "where he walked, the earth shook." - When Jesus returns, he will be holding a copy of the Orange Book and be teaching from it. -Jesus is "very interested in pfal." -God told vpw to plagiarize, and it's fine, because God said so, but it's wrong if other people plagiarize. -The alleged "1942 Promise" was legitimate, and God Almighty really made such a promise to vpw. That's a few things off the top of my head. Feel free to discuss any position on which you've changed. Please keep in mind, however, that until you mention you've changed, people will most likely hold you responsible for any position you've previously espoused, as if you still hold it.
  12. Ditto for TWI positions and their evolution. I am petitioning TWI leaders to consider what all Hi Tech companies must do, and that is have a formal system for documenting the old way of doing things and the new way. In such a system such notices are called ECNs for Engineering Change Notices. There have been quiet policy chages at TWI and I am advising they be made formal, like with ECNs.
  13. It's been previously pointed out (by Raf) that people can and do change their positions over time, and it's sometimes important to find out when that's happened- especially when disagreeing with a position they have held. After all, if someone has reconsidered their position on something and no longer holds that position, it's silly to criticize them for CONTINUING to hold that position. If they're agreeing with you, what's the point of criticizing them for previously disagreeing with you? That's not constructive discussion, that's just venting. So, I was thinking about how people can change their positions on twi, vpw and so on, but not make any major announcements on having done so.
  14. VPW had a lot of good sources. That tells me that there are lot of truths out there being enjoyed by non-grads of PFAL. If those others BELIEVE any of the promises of God, then He is able to bless them abundantly. I am not surprised that some rise above the error in their denominations and churches to have some joy. I doubt if they get the whole story, and expect that they have to limp at times. But then again, so do I. We all are growing. We pro-PFAL grads have found that we get a lot of benefits by working the KJV with the keys and foundation we got from PFAL.
  15. Perhaps some of us are seeing actual people being "blessed." And none of them know anything about PFAL. But God knows them, loves them and blesses them. As for me, and many people here, we "hang out with" lots of known Christian people. And some non-Christians - for it's possible to have deep and meaningful discussions even with agnostic and atheists. I have NO proPFAL people in my intellectual life's network, because it seems to me that there is no intellectual life in any proPFAL network. I do, however, see the joy in the lives of real, practising, believing Christians across a range of churches and denominations. You will be very surprised, Mike, when you finally see all the joy we Christian people have. I suggest you branch out and get some new ideas flowing regarding Christianity. And in particular, regarding Jesus Christ. I also suggest that you are wrapped up in "intellectual inbreeding" - kinda like being wrapped up in clingfilm.
  16. Just can't get away from the insults and accusations can you. I understand perfectly well what I am reading and where the ideas came from. PFAL has a decent amount of occultism mixed into it via the law of believing. Now, if you are interested in why I am saying this I can provide a boat load of information for further study. If you just want to hurl insults then it just shows you have nothing else in your defence of wieriwlle in the face of the truth presented from multiple sources. Lemme know your interest and if you would like to read more about what I am saying I will provide links...don't have time atm cause Im heading out to a family dinner. Cheers!
  17. I would rejoice if others heard the same truths, re-branded, and were in the same heavenly family with us. You have no idea how I think. That is because you are not willing to listen to me. You only look for ammunition in my words that you can shoot at me. Same with how you are reading this transcript from 1965. Not a shred of understanding. LATE ADDITION: I purposely do not copyright my writing, even my comedy and science and hippie-history writing. I think I do this for the same reason VPW never copyrighted the SNT teaching tapes, and the film class. I never saw a copyright notice in the film class until aroung 1982, and I was the Branch AV guy for many years. I am into the ideas.
  18. Now flip the script and imagine how bad Mike would freak out if someone plagaraized wierwille and took his materials, rebranded them, claimed ownership, and claimed God almighty had chosen him over everone else incliding wierwille over the past 2000 years to teach all of it because it hadn't been known since the apostle Paul.
  19. It looks to me that if I am right, that thousands of old grads ARE still being blessed by the collaterals, that would be pretty bad news to some posters here. Ditto for the new grads of PFAL-T who get a full set of collaterals, including the PFAL book. Also, there are the MANY splinter groups who partially lean on the collaterals (at least in memory), and are still very thankful for their solid foundation in PFAL, even if they disagree with some points. Even the mere possibility that I am right here MUST be challenged!. My claim MUST be drowned out and buried. Why? Ask yourselves, if you are in this sad category, why do you so want to see those thousands NOT blessed? This sounds to me like a pretty negative corner to have painted oneself into. */*/*/*/*/* I hang out with lots of proPFAL people. I have contacted and seen on the Internet many of them over the years How many do you hang out with? What I mean by "hang out" is have deep discussions with, either in person, by voice-phone, or text. Do you have any proPFAL people in your intellectual life's network. Are you insular this way? If so, you will be very surprised someday when you finally see all the joy we pro-PFAL people have. I suggest you folks branch out and get some new ideas flowing regarding PFAL. Have you ever heard of intellectual inbreeding?
  20. Mike: "This process is STILL going on, where people get massively blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class. They get to see the fruit in their lives as they put the content of the collaterals into their Bible reading and lives. " T-Bone: "Baloney! Are YOU omniscient and omnipresent? How do you know “this process” is still going on? “people get massively blessed” ?!?! But YOU just said you didn’t have the ability to look at the fruit in the lives of others! “blessed with the collaterals when they take the new TWI foundational class” Oh, so you’ve taken the new PFAL Today class? Also, please define “massively blessed” and describe what “fruit” is seen." WordWolf responds: And so, in Mike's mind, there's lots of new people taking the new pfal class, and getting "massively blessed." Mind you, he hasn't SEEN these people, but IN HIS MIND, there's lots of them. Mike: "Many thousands right this minute are thankful for PFAL and how it helped them. You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch. It's not too late. It will be too late someday." T-Bone: Baloney! “thousands right this minute” ? Are YOU omniscient and omnipresent? “You folks missed this bus, but there is still another one you can catch” …bus? Did you mean to say motorcoach? Who’s driving and who’s getting diddled in the back? WordWolf responds: Again, in Mike's mind, there's "thousands of people right this minute" who are thankful for pfal. He has not interacted with these "thousands", but in his mind, there's thousands.
  21. WordWolf: "The only reason to think vpw is worthy of ANY respect is his own insistence that he was- and that's not very convincing to most people. " Mike: "Baloney !!! I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims. It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, " WordWolf responds: Salami on your baloney. You had plenty of ability to look at the fruit in his life then, and you certainly can see as well as everyone else what fruit has been. We all know- and you might not admit- that if the exact same claims were made of anyone else, you would dismiss them completely. A minister, given to yelling at his congregation, known for plagiarizing virtually everything he teaches, and claiming he originated virtually all of it, addicted to alcohol and drinking it while teaching, addicted to tobacco and got cancer from all the tobacco, who has set up an elaborate social structure that facilitates him molesting and raping the female members of the congregation and sometimes drugs them first but always tells them God Almighty wants them to sexually service him the minister...... ....if this minister taught some good sermons and effective Bible..... ....and also claimed that God Almighty chose him uniquely out of all Christians for the past 2000 years.... you wouldn't believe his claim, and you wouldn't take him seriously. You skip over looking over the fruit in vpw's life- and actively discourage anyone looking at the fruit in vpw's life and call them names FOR looking at the fruit in vpw's life, because it doesn't match up with what you WANT to believe. Mike: "I looked at the good fruit first, and THEN I started to believe his claims. It occurred to me that I didn't have the ability to look at the fruit in HIS life, but in my life, and in the lives of my friends who took the class, the fruit was (and still is) abundant and good. " WordWolf responds: Mortadella on your baloney. If anyone spoke about ANOTHER Bible teacher, and that teacher plagiarized all their material from others, and someone insisted that they were a quality teacher and quality Christian because they were benefiting from what they'd learned... ...we all know what you'd say to that person, who said the same thing about any teacher EXCEPT WIERWILLE.
  22. Hey B good to see you I think the last time I did prob was in Founders Hall with you looking like you wanted to escape. I have thrown up some prayers over the years glad to see you doing well and recovering like I am too. I can relate to being in and out on this site I have done that a number of times here in the past 10 years for my own mental health. Glad you have your own family and are good. I don’t have a lot of questions about dad. I heard one of his tapes on Timothy and he is pretty much stuck in the past on an endless loop. Not surprising that counseling sessions didn’t take. Moms in the heart of the beast running the machine. That’s not changing either. Dads mind wasn’t fully formed in teenage years and early twenties. Like ours. So the machine changed all of us. We still deal with effects. I have a weird question. What was the dynamic towards pets in your household growing up? Curious lol. Be well and best to your family. I have a hound dog now I love a lot fyi.
  23. Vic-o-lantern got you in big trouble? Are you having second thoughts about selling your home to go in the Way Corps? Vic’s VapoRub to the rescue! Q: What does Vic’s VapoRub do? A: Vic’s VapoRub temporarily relieves clarity due to minor inconsistencies and intellectual irritations associated with common sense. It can also be used to temporarily relieve minor moral dilemmas and pains of conscience due to qualms. Only use as directed by the “Doctor” or your local Pharisee. When life rubs you the wrong way then Vic’s VapoRub is The Way. ~~ ~~ ~~ advertisement paid for by the committee to resurrect wierwille
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