oldiesman

I don't know if Mr. Hill is correct, but he's a good guy and makes a compelling argument. The video is around 37 minutes.

Thanks for that; we agree on a lot but let me try to convey what I believe: I feel like they had good reason to institute celebacy and shouldn't discontinue it. Complete mastery over the flesh and denial of self, denial of carnal urges, temptations and ambitions was and is a godly gift and goal. Its all part of the commitment to serve the Lord with singleness of purpose. I think they should keep that as a standard and not think that that in itself is evil or the cause of carnality and sodomy. (I think that's a cop out to blame the church when they went in knowing what the rules were.) Priests who keep their commitment are special in that way and amazing examples of denial of self, and I believe have been gifted. If this is continued they'd be great examples to the flock and worthy of imitation. The ones who don't keep their commitment should resign and if they don't should be removed by the system. I would rather see only a few who keep their commitment than open it up to many priests who don't which is apparently what we've seen.

Even if they get married and have vibrant sex it doesn't mean they won't go into sodomy, as well. These guys at the Vatican made (supposedly) a commitment to the Lord a long time ago knowing the rules and didn't live up. They should have quit a long time ago but figured they can get away with it, very few of the "good ones" have the cajones to object so the bad ones can keep their cushy positions and engage in sodomy all at the same time. Over time there apparently have been so few that can mount a force powerful enough to clean things up. It's been said that it will take a complete destruction from the Lord to fix things; can't or won't be done by human hands.

It looks quite interesting.. if I were there I'd go check it out. One thing I'd say: churches like this are probably way more accepted today than before Vatican 2. There's a church close to me that practices "gifts of the spirit" that still hasn't taken hold on all RC churches in the diocese yet is now considered valid among "modernist Catholics." And yet I think that "traditional Catholics" still consider these practices invalid and maybe even satanic, along with the cult of the Holy Spirit.

Haven't paid much attention to the "dulia and hyperdulia" parts... still working on the "latria".

Most likely not... the bowing down (and I mean all the way to the floor) and kissing of the ring came from the Catholics themselves and not from the Bishop. What I did was shake his hand and say "God Bless You" and he seemed happy with that.

Thanks Mark. I have seen Catholics bow down and kiss the ring of a Bishop (who according to Catholics would be a modern-day Apostle). It felt wierd to see that. They might have done something like that in the first century with Peter and Paul, etc. I don't know. But I ask myself "are they doing it to worship the Bishop or because they love God and want to show respect to his body the church and what Christ put in place." Its sort of the same respect we showed VPW when he was around... but with Catholics it is even worse (more pronounced) this "worship" or earthly respect and reverence to Popes, Bishops and so forth. But it that evil? I don't know. It is certainly tradition and ceremony. Guess it depends of what's in the heart of the person doing it. When I talk to some of these people afterwards its clear they love God and are there for that.

Thanks WordWolf. Looking back I think that "swearing fealty to Jesus" in twi exactly meant swearing your allegience to the twi ministry because we all were so engrained to think that "this is God's ministry" "the ministry that represents God" and so forth so our dedication had to be to the ministry. There was no other way to think. I agree that Jesus was severely de-emphasized, most particularly his sufferings. We weren't allowed to dwell on looking and gazing at the cross, let alone a crucifix.

Hi Raf, Not as much as I used to and no longer preach that. I do believe that it's Jesus who will be deciding my eternal location but I don't know if that makes him "God"; certainly Lord.

Thanks for that sharing socks. I suppose I have the same attitude with Roman Catholicism as with TWI that the evil didn't negate the good. I want to learn from people that have strong Roman Catholic faith one of them is Ann Barnhardt the other is Taylor Marshall and both have excellent podcasts that I've been listening to. I go to a Catholic Bible study which has been only a reading of the Catholic Bible and commentary by us the readers. What I try to do is get their Catholic perspective and not push the twi teachings on them (some of which I still believe even now.) But I've seen that lots of stuff is similar; the pure faith in Christ is similar. Love of God is similar. The "gifts of the spirit" or "manifestations" are not really as some Catholics observe them and some do not. But I want to get a book by Taylor Marshall called "The Crucified Rabbi" . I've read that he makes the case that the Catholic religion has its traditions, ceremonies and rituals in Judaism and fulfills the Old Testament.

The teachings are remarkably the same as PFAL, with one difference in the "statement of un-beliefs": 9. We do not believe that “faith” is a force generated by the human mind that automatically brings either good or bad into one’s life.

I get what you're saying, but the RC interpretation of scriptures and traditions sometimes vary from the scriptures and traditions of protestants. Not all, but some. The more I delve into it and pray about it, the meaning becomes clear for me. I try to get at the bottom-line meaning, then see if its something I can believe and agree with. I think the important thing is attend to having your heart close to God's heart as Jesus said.

yes. continent = celibate

Yes, I'm adding something to the mix that works for me. Others may not go for the same mix as mine.

Sorry about that! Thanks for the correction.