oldiesman

Yes it is, thx.

Thanks for that WordWolf. I took that verse as something else too than actual gifts of the spirit.

Thx so much for that sharing. We have some similarities: I too went WOW in 1975 (Amarillo TX) and took the Advanced Class in 1978 (Virginia Beach VA). I still SIT, and even do it at a Roman Catholic church meeting called "spirit wind". We have manifestions AND mass all in one meeting. Not only do they SIT, and eat the Eucharist but they lay on hands "like a house of fire." That part blows my mind. They always ask if you want to be personally prayed for before you leave the room -- gear up for it, it's a big deal.

I knew the guy vaguely he lived in Manhattan his first name began with a "V". It was shocking to hear about this death, such a young guy, and many of us had no idea he was sick. I hope he is rewarded in eternity for having faith that God would heal him, although that didn't work in that instance. But as bad as that was, it can't be compared to parents who withhold insulin from their kid.

I guess we are into some doctrine again, but I looked up the first part of Romans 6 in the Douay Rheims and is quite enlightening. First, its talking about our walk in Christ. It talks about the possibility of not walking in sin. Notice the wording "that the body of sin MAY be destroyed"... "to the end that we MAY serve sin no longer..." "so that we MAY walk in newness of life." These are maybes. Now purgatory is the place (according to Catholicism) saints of God need to be purified of sins committed after baptism (when we received the clean slate), since we didn't stop walking in sin. Maybe that is what verse 5 means? "For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall also be in the likeness of his resurrection" may mean we need the suffering to get planted and be in the likeness of his resurrection? Could be a stretch, who knows. I'm struggling to understand these verses better. [1] What shall we say, then? shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? [2] God forbid. For we that are dead to sin, how shall we live any longer therein? [3] Know you not that all we, who are baptized in Christ Jesus, are baptized in his death? [4] For we are buried together with him by baptism into death; that as Christ is risen from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we also may walk in newness of life. [5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection. [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin may be destroyed, to the end that we may serve sin no longer. [7] For he that is dead is justified from sin. [8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall live also together with Christ: [9] Knowing that Christ rising again from the dead, dieth now no more, death shall no more have dominion over him. [10] For in that he died to sin, he died once; but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God: [6] "Our old man": Our corrupt state, subject to sin and concupiscence, coming to us from Adam, is called our old man, as our state, reformed in and by Christ, is called the new man. [6] "Body of sin": The vices and sins, which then ruled in us, are named the body of sin.

A Catholic friend just sent me this email.. now gotta do more research why the powers that were, left this book out of the King James and other versions. Am sure there's an interesting story behind it. I should have asked VPW why...when he had his arm around me ... LOLOL It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins. — 2 Maccabees 12:4 O God, the Creator and Redeemer of all the faithful, grant to the souls of Your servants and handmaids departed the full remission of their sins, that, through our devout prayers, they may obtain the pardon, which they have always desired, Who live and reign, world without end. Amen. Collect of the First Mass on All Souls Day from the Roman Missal of Saint Pius V Eternal rest grant unto him, O Lord, and let perpetual light shine upon him. May he rest in peace. Amen. May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. Amen. Prayers for the Bystanders at the Grave from the Roman Ritual of Saint Pius V It is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they might be loosed from sins. — 2 Maccabees 12:4

Am also investigating the possibility that the scriptures are not finite. Sort of like putting the Holy Spirit in a box?

From what I've heard and experienced the RC church doesn't go exclusively with the scriptures for everything; they also consider and obtain information from tradition, popes, counsels, investigations of apparitions, what they believe to be newer revelation, etc. Am still investigating if there are any scriptures that the RC church relates to purgatory.