penworks

Hi, Skyrider. I appreciate the kind words and best to you and yours, as well. A big thank you to readers of Undertow. Many thanks for taking time to do it! And thanks to Pawtucket for keeping GSC open all these years … Cheers.

Yup, the millet is long gone, but the gut reaction lingers. Ugh. In case you don't know, that's an analogy for the "Word" that VPW fed us, amounting to a con of Himalayan proportions. And I should know. I've actually been to the Himalayan mountains … in May 2009. Socks, eye-witnesses willing to give their two cents are few and far between. I get "fan mail" through the Contact page on my website from former Wayfers either defending VPW and "shame on me," or from some too afraid to speak up or out due to relatives still in TWI or due to their own weariness … which I totally understand. Who wants to put themselves out there for criticism and hate mail, which I get now and then. But I knew that going into what I did ... publishing my story in a book. Wake up people, Wierwille set this whole thing in motion from day one. It was never "pure" but got corrupted later on. He was out to set himself up as "the answer man." PLEEEAASE. Sigh.

I agree with Socks regarding this, as I was an eye-witness, like Socks, to the manner in which VPW conducted himself and ran the organization: " … I don't subscribe to the theory that "the Way was fine until Martindale/Geer/Finnegan/Whoever screwed everything up".......His main guys all learned from him and acted in complete alignment with his wishes."

I can't imagine anyone listening to hours of tapes to find it tucked in a teaching. I have no audiotapes of VPW. Does anyone here have tapes and time to find the snow story?

Just to be clear, I am looking for a TAPED account of his telling this story. With his voice recorded doing it. I have the book, TWLIL, which has it in print. I'm pretty sure he told the story in the PFAL foundational class, but I haven't found it available anywhere. Thanks!

Oldiesman, you're welcome!

Raf, (or anyone here) do you have any tapes of VPW teaching/talking on which he talks about his audible revelation from God, the one that includes the snow as a sign? I would really like to find a recording of him describing it. Thanks. I can be contacted at https://charleneedge.com/contact

Welcome, Zanezim, I hope you find some good virtual camaraderie here. I did. I spent 17 years in TWI (1970-1987) and the lovely, non-manipulative people I met but don't see anymore is what I miss most about that time. Over the years, though, I've made new friends whose love is not dependent upon whether I am like-minded with them about the Bible. Relief! Cheers and happy holiday season to you and to everyone here at GSC. Penworks

Hi, this is Charlene Edge who wrote Undertow. Yes, it is true that I included some information on this topic in my book. For a first-hand account from one of VPW's "girls," I always refer people to Kristen Skedgell's memoir, Losing The Way. Also, other women spoke out in another book, by Karl Kahler, called The Cult that Snapped: A Journey Inside The Way International.

Or, for something completely different along these lines, there's a very compelling argument for doing away with bible study altogether in a "shocking" book called The End of Biblical Studies (gasp!) by Hector Avalos, PhD. Prometheus Books. 2007. Just sayin … there is an alternative viewpoint for those interested in questioning the value of continuing to hammer away at biblical texts in hopes of recreating "the original." Even if we did reach that goal, what would we have? A text that still contains contradictions (four different viewpoints in the 4 gospels), violence against "unbelievers," in the Hebrew Bible, condemnation of homosexuals, subjugation of women, etc. Just sayin … let's take a look at bibliolatry and get honest about that. Perhaps this is a topic for the Doctrinal thread. Sigh …

Raf, when you asked for examples unique to TWI, I thought of the section at the end of Karl Kahler's book, The Cult That Snapped. It begins on page 275. Wayspeak: A Glossary. He has 6 pages full of terms you could check. If you don't have a copy of the book, let me know. An example would be "undershepherding" meaning "following up on witnessing by pastoring a new person." Also "cop-outs" - former members of The Way. Also, here are a few things, some are phrases I think are unique to TWI usage, maybe not … but when I use them when speaking to outsiders about The Way, I find myself having to translate what they mean. 1. advances meant retreats. VPW said we don't retreat from anything, we advance in God's Word. Churches use the word retreat for weekend immersions of fellowship and teachings, but TWI had to be different than churches, even in naming this sort of event. 2. lift - meant offer something or someone in prayer. I remember the first time I heard this it sounded so strange. Lift? 3. witnessing - meant evangelizing, not seeing something happen. 4. off the Word - meant not obeying Way teachings. 5. Karl had this one in his Glossary, too. Wierwille was "our father in the Word" - at least in the Corps, we called him that because we likened him to the apostle Paul. 1 Corinthians 4:15 Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

DWBH wrote: "I’ve never really investigated how the thing was received by the biblical research and textual criticism folks at the academic and university levels. I wonder if anyone outside TWIt or the splinters and offshoots even uses it?? Anyone know?" I recall that the Society of Biblical Literature knew the concordance was published in 1985 because some of the guys on the research team had been attending SBL meetings and talking about it to SBL members over the years. I do not know how it was actually received by those academics, or whether it is used by anyone today, including anyone at TWI HQ or in offshoots. Wish I could be more helpful.

P.S. Rocky posted in the Doctrinal section a link to another video Juedes made about TWI's Aramaic project, which I worked on in part. .