chockfull

All I have had a good time over close to 20 years posting on this site. I have worked through plenty of cult recovery. I have called out all of the areas in the BITE model where TWI enslaved people. It has now come to the point where I feel that a Christian viewpoint is no longer welcome on Greasespot Cafe. It is fine to me if people in working through the trauma of the cult operation leave Christianity. However it is not fine to them that I remain Christian. I cannot call out faulty logic without moderation and hypocrisy with leaving the posts attacking Christianity unaltered but removing the Christian perspective posts. So for that reason this will be my last post on this site. Those of you that have my email please reach out. Best wishes in your lives developing a post TWI healthy life logic and development.

An atheist who does Gods work. Ok. With your lack of blame towards God for relatives sickness and realization there is no instantaneous healing on the way that is no different than how I view the world. I had a relative die of MS. Just saw his widow. He was supposedly healed of MS by someone praying years ago. Did that happen? Or did it just go into remission for 20 years? I don’t know. I don’t know why I never thought to blame God or pray for miracles. I’m mostly conditioned I guess to pray but keep your own gunpowder dry and your gun clean.

Hey TLC So I differ on the Abraham reading. What I pick up is he misunderstood the idea of sacrifice, meaning to give up something of your own for the greater good of all. He read the common reading which was executing and burning on an altar an animal to consumption outside the tithe given to the Levites which they ate. Other cultures also sacrificed animals to their gods in this fashion. The idea of being raised from the dead was probably a foretelling in stars or a couple prophecies but not likely to be mistaken IMO. Regading your idea of “true Christian” or not I think that is up to the Lord to decide and not me to judge. I agree with you on the common phenomenon of glossallalia is not proof that someone believes God raised Christ from the dead that is more of VPs illogic. Peace.

So I did see the website you posted that duplicated VPW work on Abraham and Isaac. I completely do not agree with your logic or necessarily VPs direct statement that God can’t change His will. Anyone can change their will. All they need is a lawyer . Ba dump tish. The point being an angel intervened to save the kid. The angel was a sent messenger from God. So if a direct sent messenger corrects your understanding of Gods Will then it’s pretty clear that killing the kid was not Gods intent or will. In Jonah God literally changed his will because they repented. It literally says it right in the verse you quoted. But you are so busy attacking VP - mostly justly I would add - that you missed the logic right there. No it’s not a good catch it is spreading a virus for logic. Regarding your last paragraph summarizing VP I am 100 percent with you on that- he was a sociopath cult leader that twisted scripture for his own gratification and enrichment and the impact on all his “burnt offerings” is horrible. This account to me shows the blend of inspiration and getting it twisted up with natural reasoning leading Abraham to a pretty dark place. To me it shows even more how faith is necessary to correctly get the scripture intent and not add in barbaric human additional practices which always enslave.

When you get mad you twist things up. I know much more about DWBH then I have ever discussed here and have conversed with him outside here. You’ve accused him of libel now publicly here on this thread. Was this something he was charged with or convicted of? Because there are those type of things. I did not blame you for sky dying and not posting here. I’m sad he’s gone for sure as he was a fantastic brother and great person personally. One more twisted statement from you. OS is happy doing his thing I guess. He 100 percent posted on here his departure and reasons being as a Christian not having that view welcome. Whatever. I’m not a private investigator but optics matter. You didn’t seem to vehemently defend yourself to him as he was leaving like you are now. Whatever. And lastly yes I am 100 percent f ing lunatic because now I’m going to remind you of PFAL collateral volume 3 entitled Of Human Sacrifice. Read it again. Or not. It might explain a little Abraham and Isaac and might give a clue to a blend of inspiration and people thinking God told them something.

What an idiotic statement. Of course I know sky passed and that is why he no longer posts here. OS stopped due to anti Christian bias and perceived moderation in that direction whatever your story is. I can ask him if you want. Yes DWBH quit posting here over a conflict with you I’ve spoken with him outside of here. Your side of the story shows how hot the argument got. The edit to my post was unnecessary I never said he was banned. I do think I remember a temp ban but won’t stick on that point. Still in the history of this site he has posted the most relevant insider knowledge of anyone here. And you chased him off. This is fact not opinion so deal with it. I’m on up there in that list too with insider information. As is OS. And look where we are with you. The dog in a manger statement is a simile. It is describing your behavior of barking at people who believe scripture contains inspiration. You know figurative language? Oh wait you don’t know what that is. That is why you guys can’t figure out Abraham and Isaac even though TWI taught you God didn’t ask him to kill his kid. I mean Mikey would be here to point out what collateral that is in. He’s gone too. Maybe that’s my fault who knows. You are stuck on fundamentalism. This to me shows the true anti Christ nature of TWI. For a large part the cult teachings are so strong people need to depart from all of Christianity to deal with it. Deal with it however you want. This site is losing relevance and interest to me. I believe there are 2 categories of knowledge in scripture - natural reasoning knowledge and spiritual inspiration knowledge. The Bible contains many strange OT accounts. No stranger than other history books who discuss the same killing and war and atrocity. People in the OT crafted a golden calf idol after a very short time absent Moses direction. TWI leadership crafted a similar image of VPW. So peoples behavior in the NT with all the extras available supposedly from scripture don’t seem all that more advanced from the OT. Many of the remaining Christian posters have grown silent over time. Read into that what you will.

Yeah I do not concur with OS direction and agree that it is extreme. I’m happy for him in his personal life though. For me to answer the “what is left” question, and to key off the video making fun of people playing with toys, what I find useful is a child like believing mindset and looking for inspiration not consistency or accuracy as what I am reading is a blend of man and God writing. I mean writing by inspiration while seeing through a glass darkly. Or something similar. Have you ever considered that the lukewarm bit in Revelation might be in the midst of a war with extreme circumstances? I think I even read in a fictional work about Revelation an idea about every believer being martyred for confessing Jesus Christ as their Lord. I don’t find that verse to be a reason to become a zealot. How one decides which part is inspiration is a personal journey. It is to me called faith this personal journey. But if some jack@$$ wants to describe it as me being a kid playing with toys by myself and he’s ok with it then good. I’m glad he’s happy with himself being funny and condescending to others beliefs. It just makes him a jack@$$ atheist with a mic.

WOW disagree with a man and you see the true vitriol coming out. Swapping out the “mod” hat as you see fit. Got it. This is RAFs forum. Don’t disagree with him or like many of the most prolific content providers on TWI you will be gone. DontWorryBeHappy - tremendous detail in posts, driven away by mods, you specifically Raf as nobody else has active modded much of anything here besides you in over a decade. ***(The following factual statement is added by Modgellan: DWBH was not banned from GSC by any of the Moderators no matter what you have heard. We will not further discuss the status of any poster who is no longer able to participate here)*** skyrider and OS are no longer posting - most of the content is dead. Look my point is simple. Stories about things you can’t see involve inspiration. If you read Green Eggs and Ham but don’t believe a Dr Seuss actually exists or that there is a real author writing under that pseudonym you are making up some kind of fantasy game about the real detail you can extract from it. If there is no God no Jesus Christ my savior, no entities outside of the physical realm and no devil spirits then what exactly is it that you are getting so worked up about? Yes your clever way about viruses to describe that natural knowledge and spiritual knowledge are in two different categories or dimensions isn’t really that clever. You can choose not to believe in mental concepts. Plenty of flat earthers think they have scientific backing. And calling out someone’s confirmation bias which you have and I have certainly should not produce this level of hate or vitriol. This whole logic about the epic of Gilgamesh “not holding itself to be the Word of God” all those capitalizations are straight outta fundamentalist bias whether or not you want to face it. The Word is my muse. Find another muse besides hate if you want to truly “deconvert”. And yes I’m happy to stay off this forum and direct my life in a different direction. Let me know there anger boy. Looking deeper into scripture comes from a spiritual perspective not from a lawyer cross defense perspective. Jesus did not commend the Pharisees attempts to “look deeper” into scripture to catch him in his words and accuse him. So there has to be something beyond the ego running wild that you attach to when “looking deeper”.

The strange part is that you are blind to the bias you are bringing to the analysis. its easy to be critical of everything and to adopt a critical bias. But even with humans if you approach them with a critical bias it completely affects how you perceive them. This produces a new type of sunglasses- the poop tinted ones. There is no “cosmology” of Genesis that is something you are reading into it. It is an origin story with a lot of symbolic elements. Likewise those who think that Jesus Christ was mentally abusing children he was healing or that somebody made up all those stories completely is delusional. They are ignoring probabilities of any kind discounting inaccuracies introduced by centuries of hand copying and just making up their own narrative completely and saying unless you “prove me wrong” what I say is true. I can read “The Epic of Gilgamesh” and get out of it what it has - the culture of a story passed down by bards, rhyming verse, some elements of the world they lived in, etc. It’s only with the inflated egos like I see on this thread that think they are all the center of the universe that every such literary work must be accompanied by their version of scientific proof. You’re not that important to require or demand any such thing. The scriptures say of themself they are not valuable without a positive outlook toward them. Your attitude towards a Creator really determines what unlocks for you in scripture. If He doesn’t exist then your bias is to tear down everything attached and pointing out inconsistencies to invalidate any value in His messages. So you yourself are the impediment to actually accomplishing an in depth analysis of scripture. And your confirmation bias will allow you to “prove” anything you want. Regarding censorship I believe you at your word it didn’t happen and the 3 dropped posts were something to do with either login issues or the forum database resetting or something. But between dropped posts and the in line responses within a quote it is too tedious to answer certain posts that are now stacking up with similar kind of illogic. You are being a dog in the manger. That is not my problem. Jesus provided exact guidance for these types of interactions in the gospels as he conversed with the Pharisees. They also did not believe in him and were trying to use their “in depth analysis” of scripture to catch him in his words. Conspiracy theory is not in depth analysis. VPWs Advanced Class is living proof of this. To me there absolutely is fundamentalist Way bias in how you are presenting your arguments for being an atheist. “The Word” does not fit with a mathematical exactness and scientific precision. God does not have a purpose for every adjective He inspired, and He doesn’t possess people and write with their hands like automatic writing. That is TWI BS and a symptom of an overly aggressive fundamentalist bias. I find the same hyper ventilation over adjectives in other cults - Mormons and JWs. Except they also use the fundamentalist approach to “prove” Joseph Smiths delusions or the GBs true position as the faithful and discreet slave.

Is a humanist one that removes all controversial posts from a thread yet leaves the ones up that present the same point they embrace? I notice about 4 of my posts were removed one of which noting the illogical nature of an atheist doing detailed word studies on scripture and lecturing others on “going deeper” into those same scriptures. Believe what you want. Do not censor logic. Censorship is not “accepting reality on its own terms” but re defining your own reality by restricting what is presented. These tactics are identical to TWI. The viewpoint is opposite. Why is a “deconversion “ necessary? It seems like those are folks that still need to break the bonds of the fundamentalist cult before building their lives in a constructive fashion. I certainly don’t need that. The Christianity I accepted in my youth is still sound and solid and nothing like the bondage of TWI. I can and do point out their doctrinal and practical errors. What I dislike is the ego shown in viewpoints. It seems like a “dog in the manger” approach. We can’t eat any of the hay but we are going to bark at all the cows to keep them away from the hay. I am growing to understand OldSkools perspective on sharing from a perspective that will not be respected. And one more note. Raf if this post is censored it will be my last on this site. Not trying to be mean or controversial but if conversation is going to happen there need to be fair boundaries. Peace outta this thread for the fifth time.

This is a long response. No I can’t relate to your exact experience with your grandson. The experiences I’ve had are different. So is the answer to the question I asked that you believe Jesus was harassing those kids or abusing them mentally? Because this is a record of him doing something that was observed and recorded.

I guess this is called “personification” where you take all of the negative elements you experienced from a cult, label man’s abuse as God being an abusive partner, and equate some form of leaving Christianity as leaving an abusive marriage arrangement. Your life your business. Not a path that has the slightest interest for me. If you are saying I’m living in denial I think maybe the mirror would point 3 fingers back at yourself. You are equating fundamentalism and more specifically the specific bondage of TWI with scripture and all of Christianity. “If that is as far as you want to go” that is the height of ego to think that I am refusing to “go deeper” or some BS you still have ingrained from cult fundamentalism. Being a scribe or a Pharisee is not “going deeper” as accurately illustrated by my Lords interaction with them. The vast majority of all Christians consider TWI a cult and VPs teachings to be self aggrandizing plagiarism. So was Jesus abusing those children he cast spirits out of? Still waiting on that answer. What does your “going deeper” tell you there?

The way you are inserting comments into my quote makes it impossible to answer any of your questions inline and I’m not cutting and pasting every one of them from all over everywhere. If I’m not answering all your questions that is why. So much of this is Christianity 101. God as Creator was not a dictator so he did not interfere in His creation every microsecond but set up systems where people could choose to talk to Him or not. Those who do He helps but not in a direct interference way for the most part. Certain circumstances dictate miracles such as those we read of Jesus on earth. Mankind has arrived at whatever state he is in through his own choice. Yes this is allegorical as today people also arrive at their own state through their own choice. What other parts of the Bible are allegorical? A lot of them. Even VPs teaching highlights verses with “figures of speech” as different from a direct reading. Remember the whole Athletes of the Spirit debacle with TWI taking figurative language to a new low? With respect to the devil spirit comments you are choosing to be confused as you don’t believe they exist. From your mouth. Jesus healed children by removing a spiritual cause of their illness. At least that is what seems pretty clear in those verses. Your grandson has a known mental condition that has negative and positive ramifications. This is not a devil spirit. This is not a spiritual cause. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. So now for my questions. What was Jesus doing to those children if not healing them? If he wasn’t removing a spiritual cause then the only other logical conclusion would involve some form of mental child abuse. Is that what you believe happened? I am not gaslighting anything. I am commenting on words proceeding from your own mouth. If it’s not gas coming out of your mouth how can it be lit on fire?

I view Gen 2 and 3 as allegorical illustrating freedom of choice between good and evil that is available to every living soul. You most certainly are interpreting it in a fundamentalist sense from my perspective. Faith means different things in the Bible I think most count 5 usages. The idea of devil spirits is upsetting. Having spiritual causes of illnesses is upsetting. Mental illnesses which can look like devil spirits are upsetting. Being sick is upsetting. Cancer and chemo is upsetting. VP said cancer was a devil spirit. Then he died of it. What .... doctrine are you talking about? Those records in the gospels are Jesus healing a couple kids by removing a spiritual cause of the illness? So healing the kids was ....? Dang that is real cynical. Not a view I want to share at all.

Yipes. I hated to watch movies with the wayfers as they over spiritualize everything. My natural defenses were to either watch stuff alone or take them to The Exorcist and then at least they would be entertaining.