Rocky

Thank you for the kind words.

Perhaps all because -- even though he saw it in the scripture -- he failed at the two greatest commandments. Didn't he define that kind of thing as idolatry? It's probably also tied directly (btwn any given person's ears) to failure to maintain humility.

That's all beside the point. It's too easy to criticize Mr Stone's post. Really though, his intended audience is those still in twi who are trying to escape.

Here's an object lesson for why threads like this may be counterproductive to the mission of GSC. On July 9, a one star Amazon customer review posted regarding Undertow. I quote, Now, it's quite easy to tear apart Mr. Stone's review. But that would be beside the point... please don't give twi apologists reason to dismiss the mission and message of GSC.

Vivid description of a livid eruption of ego. A monumental lack of poise. A person not overwhelmed with insecurity might have regained the moment and reset the desired mood simply by laughing it off.

Oh, thanks WW. Hopefully Mark S will ratify (or not) your interpretation.

I wonder what might have happened if Wierwille actually had loved people just because rather than for what they could do for him.

Do you have any evidence that anyone in the 21st Century actually KNOWS whether the devil did appear literally as a dragon anywhere to anyone?

Please clarify the question.

I just read that 40-year old letter again. What struck me (slapped me in the face) this time was that Wierwille said, "I love you for who you are." Oooops, that's not it, instead he actually wrote, "I love you for the privilege and responsibility you have." What was that "privilege?" As he taught (indoctrinated) H.I.S. way corpse, the privilege was having been called to be "doulos." Literally a slave. One who no longer has freedom to make her/his own life choices. Of course, in the indoctrination, it was slave to God. In practice, it was slave to Wierwille and his successors. The reward for the slave? To serve the earthly master on the basis of a bass-ackward interpretation of what leadership is supposed to be... and what Wierwille and successors could con you into believing you'd get at the "Bema." When you stood before God for rewards in heaven. Not unlike the mythical 70 virgins another religion promised for heinous acts of terrorism.

If Adam was Eve's "husband" (and Eve was Adam's "wife") who performed the wedding ceremony? I pose that as a serious question. To me, the Judeo-Christian creation story is just that, a story. In my comment from July 4, maybe I was using the wrong words but I was trying to say that I believe the creation story is not something we can get "a more accurate" understanding of the dynamics involved (because it wasn't the creation science, it was a STORY) by studying the Greek, Hebrew or Aramaic words. It was a freakin' story for God's sake. It was meant, not altogether unlike Greek or Roman or Norse mythology to convey concepts in terms humankind could understand. Wierwille was a con man, he wasn't a messenger from God.

1) Ryan Holiday recently wrote a book, "Ego is the Enemy," which is jam packed with insight and historical records which expand on the concept of pride causing people to fail. 2) Rosalie had the dirt on Loy. Even if he had tried to oust her, he was infinitely more vulnerable. 3) To me, your theory on how Martindale developed his mania regarding homosexuality seems inherently plausible. But not everyone agrees.

Indeed. In terms of scholarship, this particular "theory," that Adam was the real serpent, completely misses the notion of that narrative actually being a creation story. I don't buy the original understanding as having literal aspects that could reasonably be parsed in a manner like the bastardization of biblical study into which we were indoctrinated by twi. It seems to me that in order to even approach taking seriously that Adam was the real serpent one has to buy into the idea that humanity was so freaking incompetent at recording it's creation myths/stories, that it would miss figuring out who Adam really was. That's extremely implausible.

I'm pretty sure Lloyd reads GSC from time to time. Maybe he'll see his name on the front page with this thread.

There is possibility that if you let us know who spoke at your sister's funeral, people here might have some idea about the background for his group. Like Waysider, I offer my condolences on the loss of your sister. I lost my brother to heart disease when he was 36, so I have some idea how traumatic this has been for you and your family.