Rocky

"God knows who else..." reads/hears only what they want to? Pretty much EVERY one (in the world). Therefore, Dude, again: YOU are responsible for making your message clear to the reader. Don't blame the reader for not understanding your message. Try to figure out a different way to get your message across. I understand your expression of frustration. Please try again to make your message more clear to your intended audience.

I know, I was replying (directly) to TLC.

Stated another way, "which purpose I apparently did not make adequately clear to readers." It is my view that responsibility for clarity of communication resides almost exclusively with the writer... not that I think you were being rude.

By golly, some might even consider such a practice ANTI-Christ.

I'd suggest that it might be more fair to characterize it thus, "cults usually primarily benefit the few on top." If there was no other benefit, there would be no cult(s). Those not at the top generally get a strong sense of belonging. When that subsides, those people leave.

Yeah, that ain't gonna happen. And I agree, it SHOULD be flexible enough to cover Hindu, Muslim, Jainist, etc. too. But that also ain't gonna happen in many places in the good ol' USofA.

Yes, it is. My representative in the AZ House gets mocked.

Raf, I know it sucks to have to deal with family in that situation. FWIW, I don't think the underlying problem/issue is who is right or who is wrong. But I hope you find a way to reconcile those things with your family, or they with you.

Not speaking for DWBH, because I don't have anything close to his medical related background, but to this layman, my guess would be that the docs were taking huge leaps in explaining the situation to you thinking that without burdening you with the explanation of the technical aspects of the disease, all they really wanted was to motivate you to try harder to breathe deeply. Because regardless of the mechanism for the healing, the deep breathing was a necessary factor. Btw, I have had broken ribs and know the pain that prevents a person from wanting to breathe deeply. My broken rib tore into the pleural sac and eventually I had to go to the ER because I could hardly breathe. After even getting a chest tube for drainage didn't help, I had to have a thoracotomy so the docs could cauterize the tear. I ended up spending more than a week in the hospital.

holy crap

The rumors of that situation far predate GSC. I can't imagine she would not have known of the legend whether it happened as rumored or not.

Yep. A couple of reflections on my part. 1) I agree w/WW that THEY believe this is an accurate account. 2) Human recollection in times of crisis is not very reliably accurate. (for example, we can remember things that didn't even happen) "As time goes on, it can be difficult to know how accurate our memories of an event are – indeed for many of our childhood memories, it can be hard to know for certain whether we’re remembering the firsthand event itself, or are simply recalling a story as told by our parents and from photos or home videos from the time. "But this concept has a far scarier implication which has been studied by psychologists. In an experiment, interviewers were able convince 70% of people they had committed a crime, when in reality they had not." ----- This is such a thing as near death experiences. I would put those in the category of now we know in part, but someday we'll get the fuller picture. Bottom-line? The experience of Gary Laude doesn't prove anything about being raised from the dead. But I hope he's thankful for the medical care he got and for what he saw during his NDE.

I just obtained access to a Word document containing the following letter. It's almost quaint. Quite a few of the alleged signers have been around since before the first mass exodus when a handful of WC and clergy first publicly called out TWI for what they saw at the time as being "off the Word." How naïve can these supposed elders have been three decades ago and how freakin' naïve must they still be to not see that there never was a "research team" as they seem to define it. If these folks aren't willing to learn from the insight of those who have gone before them (i.e. Charlene Edge, Karl Kahler, Kristen Skedgell... and GSC's own Skyrider and others) they will likely be doomed to suffer the fate of Sisyphus. "In Greek mythology Sisyphus (/ˈsɪsᵻfəs/;[2]Greek: Σίσυφος, Sísuphos) was the king of Ephyra (now known as Corinth). He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by being forced to roll an immense boulder up a hill, only to watch it come back to hit him, repeating this action for eternity. Through the classical influence on modern culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean (/ˌsɪsᵻˈfiːən/)." What this letter (below) proposes is indeed laborious and futile. ------------- March 2017 Dear beloved Way Corps ministers, God’s abundant blessings, mercy, and peace be unto you. As Way Corps ministers, we have been and continue to be deeply concerned with the direction our beloved ministry has taken. This is why we persist in sounding the alarm. We wholeheartedly desire revival and restoration for our ministry of Biblical research, teaching, and fellowship. The entire Way Corps household should realize the need to restore this ministry back to the heart and Biblical truths as initiated by our Founder, Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. He earned respect many times over by teaching the greatness of God’s Word, leading from the front, and cultivating individual believer’s long suits. He did not ask others to do what he had not done many times himself. This respect cannot simply be transferred. Those succeeding in the same position must earn respect themselves. This involves leading from the front rather than pushing from behind. We remain firm in our requests to bring our ministry back to "It Is Written," so the Word of the Lord may have free course and be glorified, starting with: Lift the non-Biblical “no debt” policy that excludes classes and service to those in debt. Rather, continue to teach God’s will of living within our means, working heartily as unto the Lord, and sharing of our abundance. Eliminate the “absolute” power of the current self-appointed board. Replace it with a larger elected board with established term limits and input from the entire Way Corps household. Bring The Way Corps meetings back to their roots to include spiritually energized, in-depth teachings of God’s Word with an emphasis on scope and a word-by-word study of the scripture. Redesign Sunday Teaching Services with an energized service and teachers that motivate and inspire believing. Stream the teachings—we have the fiber optic cable already in place to do so. “Spiritual weakness and inability is caused by improper diet and neglect of the Word.” --VPW Rethink how Way Corps assignments and placements are handled. Post open positions. Way Corps assignments should be in conjunction with each Way Corps minister, ensuring these decisions really are “best for the individual” and then the ministry by having open discussions and transparent motives. Reestablish the Word living within a base of youth to lead us into the next generation, or the ministry will not survive. Reenergize their participation by respecting their needs for “Hot Bible,” musical alternatives, listening for and seeking their input, and honoring their desire for fellowship with one another. Reestablish a research team. This is vital to restore the foundation of our ministry to the integrity of the Word. Reach out to re-engage Way Corps ministers who have been dropped or have discontinued their Way Corps service due to their conscience based on the Word, family needs, health or other issues. We know this is not an exhaustive list, but only several of the basics. You will likely have other concerns you would like to see addressed. Our Lord Jesus Christ showed us how to best evaluate leadership by his simple statement: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” In Matthew 7:15-20, he warned as follows: Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. The fruit of our current leadership for the past decade has become increasingly apparent. In the past 10 years we have lost over 150 Way Corps ministers. Combined with continuing small in-residence Corps classes, the overall Way Corps numbers are in a sharp decline. The number of new graduates who stand following completion of classes is dropping. Because qualified Advanced Class candidate numbers have dropped so low, there is no longer a need to do a class every year. There has been a steady decrease in the number of believers seeking employment at The Way International and there is a high turnover rate. Attendance at Sunday Teaching Services at The Way International Headquarters and at on-the-field phone hookups is consistently low. The Way International has a book value of all assets over $68 million, however believers often pay a facility fee to meet as a State or Branch, or they meet in only “budget” or “free” spaces. There are less and less full time ministers on the field and in many Regions only one full time couple in the entire Region. This inequality is non-Biblical and begs the question of how the abundant sharing is utilized. There is no transparency. (II Corinthians 8:14) There is continued mistreatment of long-standing, faithful believers and leadership. Without dialogue and nothing resembling I Timothy 5:19-21, numerous ministers—including seasoned Officers, Region coordinators, State coordinators, Branch coordinators, and others on Headquarters Staff—have been abruptly removed, mishandled, and in several cases barred from fellowship. This is inexcusable. The Board of Directors have refused to dialogue regarding the Biblical confrontation for which they were rebuked on August 12, 2016. The attached letters were sent asking for representatives to meet with the Board of Directors and later to attend the Region coordinator’s meetings so concerns could be effectually represented. The only option given was meeting with one couple at a time, not in a suggested Acts 15-type leadership meeting. The Board of Directors continue to move ahead unrepentant. These are factual indications of their fruit. Additional questions need to be asked: Do we have the same laughter, joy, and wholehearted goodwill and love for one another that we once knew and loved in our beloved ministry? Why have we not had any nationwide Way Corps face-to-face meetings where we can fully share and learn from one another in an open manner? Why is the labor for and loyalty to a few select individuals exalted above commitment and devotion to our heavenly Father? These things have thwarted the purposes of God. The future of our ministry is in peril. This information is intended as a call to action. We have not undertaken this mission lightly, but rather with prayer and a multitude of counselors working together. We recognize our first letter was “loud” in that it addressed issues openly. It is now essential to “yell long” as the Way Corps continue to arise, allowing God to bare His mighty arm. It is time to boldly speak up; we stand approved before God, not men. We will no longer cover for the Board of Directors. Your one-accord voice is needed. As stated in Acts 4:20, after being commanded by the chief priests and elders not to speak at all, nor teach in the name of Jesus, they simply replied, “We cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.” They went to their “own company” and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said unto them, Acts 4:23. As a result, in verse 24, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord. Boldness to speak the Word, signs and wonders, and a multitude of believers with one heart and soul was the fruit. Great grace was upon them all. Many of us have informed our “own company” of our Biblical confrontation and why it was done. We have encouraged the believers to pray for our ministry and live the Word. The results have been a greater commitment to “It is Written,” relief that their concerns are being addressed, and a thankfulness that the Word of God is the foundation of our lives. It has been an answer of peace. We encourage you to do the same as God works in your heart. It must be the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word. The numbers that support a change at the Board of Director level are consistently growing. You can contact us at: revivalandrestoration@outlook.com and/or contact us personally with any questions or comments. Lovingly in Christ, Ray and Sandy Beets, Ted and Ramona Bidon, Paul and Connie Brooks, Brett and Dale Byers, Kevin and Melody Carter, Todd and Michelle Cencich, Michael and Cindy Fort, Gary and Patricia Frederick, Scott and Kristina Froelich, Matthew and Laurie Harmon, Ed and Jacque Horney, Mark and Terri Ladwig, Aaron and Kelly Lapp, Darrell La Salle, Rhett Major, Bob and Dottie Moynihan, Rich and Vera O’Neal, Buddy and Donna Pressler, Stephen and Patty Fay Roberts, David and Cecilia Rowe, Jon and Lisa Ryan, Michael and Billi-Jo Sanders, Phil and Sue Shelton, Rick and Marian Schilling, Jeffrey and Chrissy Skeltis, Gene and Sherry Slavit, Sean and Mary Strickland, Walter and Christina Uyehara…plus dozens more

That was barely the tip of the iceberg. The Way Tree structure of the organization, where everyone was supposed to cater to the "needs" of the "Man of God" was central to it.

It's worth noting again that this is not unique to twi. The social mores of the organization allowed it. The self-justifying interpretations of several aspects of scripture dictated it.

After creating a live radio show in 1942 to broadcast his sermons, an out-of-work preacher from Ohio was quickly throw into the spotlight of an international spiritual movement. Through his hypnotic Power for Abundant Living (PFAL) course, Wierwille bought the Way International to a large farm in Ohio during a time of revolution in the 1960s. “The Teacher” appeared to be devoted to God, but actually wanted sex, money, and control. (Ep 62) A disgruntled pastor of the Evangelical and Reformed Church creates his own religious group in 1942 after claiming he received Biblical secrets dating back from the First Century AD. By 1980, The Way International was one of the largest and wealthiest cults on Earth. Despite it’s tremendous growth, Victor Paul Wierwille’s paranoia and institutionalized methods of control ultimately led to the cult’s demise. Find these a Parcast.com

I looked at the linked websites. Apparently now, the enrollment cost is just shy of $800. They apparently also claim that it's a $5000.00 value. Now THAT is bovine scatology.

Oh brother! Thanks for the warning. I think.

More power to you, as they say.

JJ, do you have any scriptural basis for any of that? You said, "Am I allowed to do that?" Well, whatever it is you are doing, is there anyone or anything that is prohibiting or preventing you from doing it? (rhetorical question) To me, it seems the real question isn't whether you're "allowed to do that," but rather "what is it that you are actually doing?" Can it hurt you to record something you feel inspired to say out loud? I doubt it. Is it reasonable to label the practice "interpretation of tongues" or "prophecy?" I don't know that anyone can stop you from doing so whether what you are doing/describing matches anything that might fit a biblical definition of either of those things. That said, even if (though) I think you're likely off your rocker, who am I to judge you if you're not hurting anyone? Otherwise, I'm inclined to agree with Waysider.

Anybody can tell a story. BTW, even if you don't have a scanner, it's likely your local public library does. I did an internet search for Herald-Advocate and found this website from Hardee County, Florida. I then searched that site for Gary Laude and came up with NO article search results. It's possible that Raf was thinking of bovine scatology when he cited horse manure.

Indeed!

I understand. And looking back, I now believe many of their teachings are weird.

You nailed it! Yes, that's what Wierwille often did.

Well, another explanation might be that they never learned anywhere that they needed to honor personal boundaries of other people. I hope I'm inferring correctly that you are female. And given that you've been an adult for quite a few years, you probably realize that many men are just very horny. Combine the two (lack of understanding of personal boundaries along with horniness) and it too often, in many different situations throughout the world, leads to sexual misconduct and abuse. In TWI, the self-justifying social culture generated by selective interpretation of scriptures led many women, especially young adult women, to be subjected to such abuse. That you successfully asserted your boundaries is a very good thing. The power imbalance in relationships is often highly problematic. Of course, it wasn't exclusive to TWI. And it's not exclusive to religious organizations. Just last night I heard the story of a German former Catholic nun named Doris Wagner.