Rocky

Somehow people were convinced (hoodwinked?) into accepting vague claims as god-breathed, IMO. There may have been [edit: likely was SOME] some divine inspiration, but I no longer believe that holy men wrote what God told them to write, verbatim. Religion, is generally about finding ways to get humans to act in concert as groups to do what some faction wanted them to do or believe.

It is a STORY.

As Nathan sort of reflected, this is all about the Judeo-Christian creation myth. Frankly, I very much appreciate your reinterpretation of it, Charity. There's so much more knowledge and wisdom available to humans. To me, it's only natural and reasonable that people are considering legitimate philosophical questions trying to figure out the meaning of life according to dominant religions... of which Christianity is only one of the dominant ones.

tragic.

At the risk of veering off into a political debate (but hoping not to do so), I understand TWI/Wierwille to have developed a position that was much more about the morality of ministry leaders justifying adultery and providing an escape clause, as it were, when a pregnancy occurred outside of a normal marriage.

I received a notification that something I said on this thread was somehow considered controversial. However, I'm NOT finding anything on this thread I said that could be controversial. Nevertheless, I am NOT a moderator. I don't "move" or delete" anything. Also, Go Dbacks! :) Further, regardless of my beliefs regarding Jesus Christ or God, even if I profess unbelief, I don't get your point. OldSkool. Please clarify

I would suggest asking JALvis, but he's no longer available for consultation.

Great question, Charity. I would HOPE. I would also HOPE our new good friend Righteous Rider isn't/wasn't trying to set GSC readers up for a Viral Mimetic Infection. I just found THIS 14 year old video on YouTube. Not quite four minutes into this video, Ms Benscoter related how she believes it works. She shared what Viral Mimetic Infection made her vulnerable as a 17 year old to love bombing by Moonies. She became a Moonie. Can you think of any (viral mimetic infection) VMI-like phrases that Wierwille used in his Pflap class to HOOK us?

Please explain.

Peer pressure most likely. Belonging is not unique to cultic or religious organizations. Although the importance of social relationships, cultural identity, and — especially for indigenous people — place have long been apparent in research across multiple disciplines (e.g., Baumeister & Leary, 1995; Cacioppo, & Hawkley, 2003; Carter et al., 2017; Maslow, 1954; Rouchy, 2002; Vaillant, 2012), the year 2020 — with massive bushfires in Australia and elsewhere destroying ancient lands, the emergence of the COVID-19 pandemic, and the Black Lives Matter movement in the U.S., amongst other events — brought the importance of belonging to the forefront of public attention. Belonging can be defined as a subjective feeling that one is an integral part of their surrounding systems, including family, friends, school, work environments, communities, cultural groups, and physical places (Hagerty et al., 1992). Most people have a deep need to feel a sense of belonging, characterized as a positive but often fluid and ephemeral connection with other people, places, or experiences (Allen, 2020a).

Not lately.

God bless you OldSkool. I wish you prosperity in your heart and soul and family relationships. I also hope you never fret about whether anyone thinks you're crazy. We all have stories. I can see a long life and many adventurous stories for you in the years to come.

That's it in a nutshell.

Ugh!

YIKES!

I'm wondering if what you and he might be thinking of is AWE. Dacher Keltner, an academic, recently published (in 2023) a book on AWE.

Seriously, Raf? Can you not, detached from emotional noise, just give him an I statement. As in... I don't grasp what you're getting at. Why would you need to assess his "overall intelligence?" Sheesh.

I appreciate the difference of using an I statement. It still doesn't tell me what the author subjectively experienced. And, I'm still curious. If you don't know the answer, I'm okay with that. Still curious, but I know I can only ask for clarification, not demand it.

Thank you for posting that beautiful visual and auditory feast of awe. Today's new (to me) book, is AWE: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How it Can Transform Your Life. There were times in my young adulthood (50 or so years ago) and during my early life in twi, when I experienced everyday wonder. Of course, at that time, I attributed it all to God, as defined by Victor Wierwille. Anyway, in this book, I am encouraged to look for, seek out, awe in my everyday life. Beauty in cultural expression is one place to find it. I was touched with a sense of awe listening to that choir. No doubt, you and your fellow choir members singing that beautiful piece with a deep sense of love and awe will touch all of those who get to hear you.

NYTimes has this (apparently a gift article, because I could read it even though I don't subscribe to NYT) This report doesn't spell out Community of Jesus as a cult, but it seems to examine well, the young Mr Bushnell's mental approach. He rejected a good bit of his cult upbringing. He went to mental health therapy and encouraged a female friend with whom he apparently grew up to do the same. He had deep empathetic tendencies (which is a good thing). He WILL not immediately be forgotten, as this kind of sacrifice does get cited in news stories after the fact. My heart aches for him as I envision the ongoing good he could do by choosing to survive. Various aspects of growing up in a cult are apparent for those with experience to recognize it. Notably for me, that he was apparently neither taught nor had modeled for him by elders ways to cope with difficult ethical and moral dilemmas.

Or as personal attacks.

A quite vague claim. Before I'd accept this (unverifiable) claim, I'd want more of an explanation/description of what he meant by "the cabin was filled with the presence of God."

THIS was a review of Undertow, Charlene's memoir. From her perspective, she apparently believed he believed it.

Very detailed review. I recommend it wholeheartedly. The following clip saliently describes Mr Stewart's conclusion that "his is a book that anyone interested in evangelicalism, Pentecostalism, or aberrant fundamentalist Christianity should read. Maybe everybody should." That paragraph well sums up and crystalizes much of the reason for the abuses of power inherent in many first person records posted on GSC.